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Parcells' favorite moment

exiled : 1/29/2015 10:24 am
No doubt this is not news to a lot of BBIers, but I was just listening to a radio interview with Parcells and his "sweetest" moment as an NFL coach was the 1990 NFC championship win against SF. Not the Super Bowls. (And I have to admit that I liked listening to him talk about his years with the Giants as I drove around Massachusetts the week before the SB.)

Made me remember that game. Wow, that intense Giants defense...I miss that.
How the hell,  
Doomster : 1/29/2015 10:29 am : link
did he leave us with that guy, and not BB?
that was the best, hardest hitting football game I've ever seen  
Greg from LI : 1/29/2015 10:30 am : link
.
He no doubt recalls the '88 laydown by Walsh's Niners,  
Big Blue '56 : 1/29/2015 10:30 am : link
the lots of hostility in that regular season 7-3 loss and the fact(?) that the Niners sent on their equipment to the SB(to play the Bills)
I can still watch that game and enjoy it almost as much  
jcn56 : 1/29/2015 10:36 am : link
as I did that day. That's a classic - damn shame the NFL Network is so consumed with airing garbage and not great games from the past.
They kicked the shit out of Hoss  
Big Blue '56 : 1/29/2015 10:38 am : link
and he kept getting up..Btw, Leonard Marshall told me that the Burt hit was fine with the team..No animus
pretty sure Banks said something different  
Greg from LI : 1/29/2015 10:40 am : link
I think it was Banks, anyway, but I know I've seen a quote from someone on the defense that they were pissed after Burt took a shot at Hostetler's knee.
That 49er team was a tall, tall mountain  
Go Terps : 1/29/2015 10:42 am : link
That type of team is practically impossible in the salary cap NFL.
About the winning kick  
RetroJint : 1/29/2015 10:42 am : link
Read this some 15 years later. Hadn't realized it. The Niners lined up to block the kick in a formation the Giants hadn't seen. Bahr noticed it. Had he kicked the ball to center between the goal posts, it would have been blocked. As for the tired line about Parcels waiting too long to announce his leaving & thus costing the Giants Belichick, it's complete BS. George Young, who unraveled completely following the season, did not consider BB to be head-coaching timber. Young told Belichick that. GY already had his hand-picked successor-Ray Handley.
RE: pretty sure Banks said something different  
Big Blue '56 : 1/29/2015 10:46 am : link
In comment 12114331 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
I think it was Banks, anyway, but I know I've seen a quote from someone on the defense that they were pissed after Burt took a shot at Hostetler's knee.


I specifically phrased it to Marshall re the prevailing feeling((he was great friend with my daughter and son-in-law) at my daughter's wedding..He said unequivocally that they were fine with it, that it was "football" and the idea that the Giants were pissed at the time was not true..Perhaps, Banks never shared it with him..
The only thing I don't like about that season  
Ralph.C : 1/29/2015 10:47 am : link
45-second clock. I hated when they went from 30 seconds to 45 and I still don't like the 40 seconds between plays. It was done only to squeeze in more commercials.

I watched a game from 1980 and I was shocked that the first commercial did not come until the end of the first quarter. What they used to do was have the announcer say (during a huddle or time out) "And this time out was brought to you by Toyota" or something like that but they would stay with the game. We used to see huddles and we used to see the QB go over and talk to the head coach too. It used to be fun to see Simms and Parcells seem to be arguing on the sidelines. It really pulled you into the game.

The games can still be good but they will never be like they used to be.
Oh and yes.  
Ralph.C : 1/29/2015 10:48 am : link
The 1990 NFC Championship was an intense game.
I remember reading a quote from Steve DeOssie....  
bceagle05 : 1/29/2015 10:50 am : link
After the Niners called a timeout to ice Bahr before the game winner, DeOssie went up to him and said, "Matt, you're a veteran, why are they even bothering trying to ice you?" (paraphrasing)

Bahr's response: "They're not trying to ice ME, Steve, they know YOU have to snap it."
might have just been Banks making drama for TV  
Greg from LI : 1/29/2015 10:52 am : link
Because I'm pretty sure the comment was made in the America's Game for the 1990 team.
Interview Link  
iMatt : 1/29/2015 10:52 am : link
It was on NPR this morning.
7:32 Audio - ( New Window )
I just finished "Parcells: A Football Life". In it, Bill says  
Victor in CT : 1/29/2015 10:54 am : link
that in late 1990 and early 1991 when he got wind of TC and Boston College and BB with Cleveland, he went to Young on both occasions and asked if he should encourage them to stay since there might be a chance at the top job. BP wasn't sure of his plans after the season and his health was an issue. In both cases George Young said no, let them go. Parcells goes on to say that GY had it in his mind that Handley was the guy, that he wanted a fellow intellectual and thought HAndley would be a great coach. GY also didn't think Belichick was HC material, that he couldn't communicate.

I know it's Bill's side of the story, and GY is gone, but it's not the first time I heard that about GY and Belichick. I had not heard the Coughlin story before.
that game was 100% tension  
Stu11 : 1/29/2015 10:56 am : link
from the kickoff to that ball just sliding inside the left upright. What a virtuoso NFL game. If it was played at lambeau or Soldier Field it would be talked about more than the Ice Bowl.
GY had a brilliant first half of his career with the Giants  
Greg from LI : 1/29/2015 10:58 am : link
And a disasterous second half. Disdaining Little Bill in favor of Handley and his inability to adapt to free agency doomed the team for most of the 1990s.
RE: that game was 100% tension  
Victor in CT : 1/29/2015 11:08 am : link
In comment 12114377 Stu11 said:
Quote:
from the kickoff to that ball just sliding inside the left upright. What a virtuoso NFL game. If it was played at lambeau or Soldier Field it would be talked about more than the Ice Bowl.


It was incredible Stu. 2 Heavyweights, complete opposite philosophies, saying fuck it and going toe to toe. What a great era.
Good relevant article on the Niners games and hits on Montana  
Moondawg : 1/29/2015 11:08 am : link
.
Link - ( New Window )
One thing lost in that game  
Matt in SGS : 1/29/2015 11:21 am : link
was that the Giants moved the ball on the Niners consistently that day. The Niners had trouble with the Giants defense from the get go, and in reality were outplayed by the Giants by a wide margin, but they bent but did not break. What kept that game closer than it should have been:

- Mo Carthon dropped a perfectly placed pass from Meggett on a halfback option in the end zone because he lost the ball in the sun. Should have been a TD
- Mark Collins had an easy fumble recovery when Marshall killed Montana and if he got that ball, the Giants are in scoring position. Steve Wallace, with that crazy extra helmet thing for concussions got the ball
- On Gary Reasons' fake punt return, the Niners had 10 men on the field. If he doesn't run directly at John Taylor, he had a great chance of scoring on that play. What I loved about that fake punt, among the obvious, was Pat Summerall's call. Summerall was great as a deadpan announcer, but allowed the game and the fans to bring the intensity home. As Reasons burst through the line you could hear the excitement in his voice. He was so far in a way the best play by play man, in his prime, it's not funny, especially compared to what we have today.
- The Niner's lone TD came because Everson Walls misplayed a ball and went for a pick rather than just playing Taylor. If he plays the man, the Niners weren't really driving well on the Giants and I'm not sure if we would have seen them get a TD.
- Bahr kicked 5 FGs, but he also missed one. That's 6 trips in scoring territory against the Niners

That's why I think the football Gods stepped up and rewarded the Giants with the Craig fumble. The Giants were the better team that game and deserved to win. I liken it to the Favre pick in OT in 2007.

I have a DVD of that game  
RB^2 : 1/29/2015 11:23 am : link
That was some of the most intense football I ever watched.
RE: One thing lost in that game  
Big Blue '56 : 1/29/2015 11:24 am : link
In comment 12114440 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
was that the Giants moved the ball on the Niners consistently that day. The Niners had trouble with the Giants defense from the get go, and in reality were outplayed by the Giants by a wide margin, but they bent but did not break. What kept that game closer than it should have been:

- Mo Carthon dropped a perfectly placed pass from Meggett on a halfback option in the end zone because he lost the ball in the sun. Should have been a TD
- Mark Collins had an easy fumble recovery when Marshall killed Montana and if he got that ball, the Giants are in scoring position. Steve Wallace, with that crazy extra helmet thing for concussions got the ball
- On Gary Reasons' fake punt return, the Niners had 10 men on the field. If he doesn't run directly at John Taylor, he had a great chance of scoring on that play. What I loved about that fake punt, among the obvious, was Pat Summerall's call. Summerall was great as a deadpan announcer, but allowed the game and the fans to bring the intensity home. As Reasons burst through the line you could hear the excitement in his voice. He was so far in a way the best play by play man, in his prime, it's not funny, especially compared to what we have today.
- The Niner's lone TD came because Everson Walls misplayed a ball and went for a pick rather than just playing Taylor. If he plays the man, the Niners weren't really driving well on the Giants and I'm not sure if we would have seen them get a TD.
- Bahr kicked 5 FGs, but he also missed one. That's 6 trips in scoring territory against the Niners

That's why I think the football Gods stepped up and rewarded the Giants with the Craig fumble. The Giants were the better team that game and deserved to win. I liken it to the Favre pick in OT in 2007.


That game never should have gone into OT..Bradshaw scored..Zit was a bogus hold
It  
Big Blue '56 : 1/29/2015 11:25 am : link
.
RE: that was the best, hardest hitting football game I've ever seen  
Del Shofner : 1/29/2015 11:26 am : link
In comment 12114305 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
.


Yup.
RE: I can still watch that game and enjoy it almost as much  
Cam in MO : 1/29/2015 11:31 am : link
In comment 12114320 jcn56 said:
Quote:
as I did that day. That's a classic - damn shame the NFL Network is so consumed with airing garbage and not great games from the past.


This x 500000000

NFLN started out so good doing just that. It's a shame they've turned into ESPN the Ocho for football.


RE: RE: I can still watch that game and enjoy it almost as much  
Matt in SGS : 1/29/2015 11:33 am : link
In comment 12114462 Cam in MO said:
Quote:
In comment 12114320 jcn56 said:


Quote:


as I did that day. That's a classic - damn shame the NFL Network is so consumed with airing garbage and not great games from the past.



This x 500000000

NFLN started out so good doing just that. It's a shame they've turned into ESPN the Ocho for football.



They hired a bunch of former ESPN executives, it's not surprise that this has happened. And it's sad, networks cater to the LCD far too often.
goddamn, thinking about that game still makes me giddy after 24 years  
Greg from LI : 1/29/2015 11:37 am : link
My god I loved that 1990 team. They just squeezed the life out of the opposition like a python.
RE: One thing lost in that game  
Victor in CT : 1/29/2015 11:40 am : link
In comment 12114440 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
was that the Giants moved the ball on the Niners consistently that day. The Niners had trouble with the Giants defense from the get go, and in reality were outplayed by the Giants by a wide margin, but they bent but did not break. What kept that game closer than it should have been:

- Mo Carthon dropped a perfectly placed pass from Meggett on a halfback option in the end zone because he lost the ball in the sun. Should have been a TD
- Mark Collins had an easy fumble recovery when Marshall killed Montana and if he got that ball, the Giants are in scoring position. Steve Wallace, with that crazy extra helmet thing for concussions got the ball
- On Gary Reasons' fake punt return, the Niners had 10 men on the field. If he doesn't run directly at John Taylor, he had a great chance of scoring on that play. What I loved about that fake punt, among the obvious, was Pat Summerall's call. Summerall was great as a deadpan announcer, but allowed the game and the fans to bring the intensity home. As Reasons burst through the line you could hear the excitement in his voice. He was so far in a way the best play by play man, in his prime, it's not funny, especially compared to what we have today.
- The Niner's lone TD came because Everson Walls misplayed a ball and went for a pick rather than just playing Taylor. If he plays the man, the Niners weren't really driving well on the Giants and I'm not sure if we would have seen them get a TD.
- Bahr kicked 5 FGs, but he also missed one. That's 6 trips in scoring territory against the Niners

That's why I think the football Gods stepped up and rewarded the Giants with the Craig fumble. The Giants were the better team that game and deserved to win. I liken it to the Favre pick in OT in 2007.


Great post Matt
What gets me about catering- the NFL doesn't need to do it.  
Cam in MO : 1/29/2015 11:46 am : link
Considering the horrible rule changes (that even casual fans do not like ), the concussion/CTE issue, non-stop bad press for players behaving badly ( and the NFL handling it even worse), and allegations of cheating by the most successful team of the last 15 yrs- it's dumbfounding that ratings for (even horrible games) are higher than they've ever been.

NFLN could broadcast 3hrs of a pile of horseshit steaming in a pasture on a cold morning and people would tune in.

If they did more "Americas game" type stuff with classic games and matchup since the merger (there's hundreds to choose from, none lacking in compelling story lines), they'd be winning Emmy after Emmy. Imagine one for Kosar/Marty Browns, or the Rams of the 80's, the Cowboys of the 70's, Buddy Ryan's Eagles....the list goes on and on...


Jerry Markbreit also said this was the best game  
truebluelarry : 1/29/2015 11:52 am : link
he ever worked as an official.
Fuck- even pre-merger stuff:  
Cam in MO : 1/29/2015 11:56 am : link
Karas and the Lions gambling scandal, the AAFC being absorbed by the NFL bringing in the 49ers and Browns (who completely destroyed the rest of the league beginning with their first game against the defending champs- the Eagles), Paul Brown and how he completely revolutionized offensive football with the T-formation and calling plays- and how much Brown calling plays effected the legacy of Otto Graham (who is one of the greatest and underrated QB's to ever play.)

Further back, stories of Sammy Baugh- probably the greatest athlete to have played QB (who still holds records that will never be broken), the Giants game vs Notre Dame during the depression in which Mara donated all of the proceeds to the NYC unemployment fund and in which the Giants destroyed ND after Rockney famously told his players (including the famed four horsemen) that the Giants were big but slow- so score a few TD's early and then play keep away.

Just so many untapped storylines...such a shame.


So re-watchable  
rsjem1979 : 1/29/2015 12:23 pm : link
In all seriousness, that game might be the absolute pinnacle of the NFL in terms of drama, quality of play and broadcasting excellent.

Summerall and Madden were unmatched and in their prime. The setting in San Francisco was perfect.

The game had everything. Brutal hitting. Big plays. Trick plays. A legendary QB going for a three-peat vs. a career backup. A history-changing moment when Marshall pulverized Montana. A dramatic upset decided on the game's final play.
Bavaro alluded to the hostility Burt produced due to the cheap shot...  
Emlen'sGremlins : 1/29/2015 12:26 pm : link
....on Hoss in his recent Giant Chronicles.
And my vivid recollection of that game is LT screaming....  
Emlen'sGremlins : 1/29/2015 12:28 pm : link
....at the Candlestick crowd from the Giants sideline immediately after they KO'd Montana. Our defense was in full crazed dogs mode after that hit on Hoss.
I can tell you this....  
Emlen'sGremlins : 1/29/2015 12:32 pm : link
....when I interviewed Montana in '06 and brought up the Burt '86 and Marshall '90 KOs as a sidebar conversation it still bothered him.
Another distinct memory was right after the game  
Stu11 : 1/29/2015 12:45 pm : link
Channel's 5 sports guy Tom McDonald on the field interviewing Matt Bahr on the way to the lockeroom. Bahr was the stone faced type came from a strict military family and at first he was ignoring the questions with his helmet still on and just was holding up the yellow arm band they wore, loudly imploring everyone to support the troops. Then at the end McDonald's last question he asks something like 'but Matt how did it feel to make that kick?" Bahr finally lets out a grin and says: "pretty good" That's yet another whole aspect that hasn't been brought up about that game and it's backdrop. We had just gone to war in the Gulf that week -the first Gulf war and the whole country was on edge, and here you have this intense epic football game in the middle of it all.
Hate to mention a loss  
smshmth8690 : 1/29/2015 12:48 pm : link
on a post about one of the greatest Giant Wins of all-time, but the loss to the 49ers earlier in the same year was also a great game. I know it sound stupid, but that was the best game I've ever seen Big Blue lose. I loved when Simms got into it with Lott. I may be in the minority here, but I think Simms would've had a chance if that brawl ever played out. Fuck SF, I still hate them.
interesting stuff on this thread, thanks gents  
mfsd : 1/29/2015 12:55 pm : link
that game was probably the single greatest example of the Giants football so many of us grew up on. Which is why some of us still find the new flag-football-ish NFL so weird, even if it gives us the beauty of watching a guy like OBJ run wild

On George Young, my memory is he was lost when it came to the new salary cap age. Didn't he give Rodney Hampton an absurd deal which hamstrung us? And I loved RH

When I've rewatched those games, it hits me I really miss having linebackers like Banks, LT, Carson, Reasons, Pepper, DeOssie. Van Pelt was a little before my time, but same boat
RE: One thing lost in that game  
BillKo : 1/29/2015 1:08 pm : link
In comment 12114440 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
was that the Giants moved the ball on the Niners consistently that day. The Niners had trouble with the Giants defense from the get go, and in reality were outplayed by the Giants by a wide margin, but they bent but did not break. What kept that game closer than it should have been:

- Mo Carthon dropped a perfectly placed pass from Meggett on a halfback option in the end zone because he lost the ball in the sun. Should have been a TD
- Mark Collins had an easy fumble recovery when Marshall killed Montana and if he got that ball, the Giants are in scoring position. Steve Wallace, with that crazy extra helmet thing for concussions got the ball
- On Gary Reasons' fake punt return, the Niners had 10 men on the field. If he doesn't run directly at John Taylor, he had a great chance of scoring on that play. What I loved about that fake punt, among the obvious, was Pat Summerall's call. Summerall was great as a deadpan announcer, but allowed the game and the fans to bring the intensity home. As Reasons burst through the line you could hear the excitement in his voice. He was so far in a way the best play by play man, in his prime, it's not funny, especially compared to what we have today.
- The Niner's lone TD came because Everson Walls misplayed a ball and went for a pick rather than just playing Taylor. If he plays the man, the Niners weren't really driving well on the Giants and I'm not sure if we would have seen them get a TD.
- Bahr kicked 5 FGs, but he also missed one. That's 6 trips in scoring territory against the Niners

That's why I think the football Gods stepped up and rewarded the Giants with the Craig fumble. The Giants were the better team that game and deserved to win. I liken it to the Favre pick in OT in 2007.


All great points.

I do remember another play in the game, late in the half, where Taylor or maybe Rice made a catch that wasn't a catch with Perry Williams defending (was instant replay take away for a few seasons?) And the 49ers ended up kicking a FG. I could be wrong.......
one thing having re-watched it not too long ago  
Stu11 : 1/29/2015 1:15 pm : link
the key sideline pass to Stephen Baker to really get them in field goal range of the last drive was one massive push-off by the touchdown maker! oh well as our good friend Mooch would say: "Bummer"
I thought Bahr was 5 for 5....  
WideRight : 1/29/2015 1:27 pm : link
.
Bahr was 5 for 6  
WideRight : 1/29/2015 1:30 pm : link
wow
RE: About the winning kick  
Les in TO : 1/29/2015 1:30 pm : link
In comment 12114337 RetroJint said:
Quote:
Read this some 15 years later. Hadn't realized it. The Niners lined up to block the kick in a formation the Giants hadn't seen. Bahr noticed it. Had he kicked the ball to center between the goal posts, it would have been blocked.


how did he adjust his kick based on the formation?
great memories on this thread!  
ColHowPepper : 1/29/2015 1:31 pm : link
Aside from the taut game, tight all game long, what I remember is on every offensive snap the 49ers had, their entire line and Montana were checking out LT. He was a monster; I think part of MoM (a favorite BBI poster) part of that was LT was the focus.

MattinSGS, great points. Does there exist a 1990 Giants Playoffs DVD anywhere? Would love to get hold of that.

As my mention of the Bruce Smith grab of Hostetler's wrist in yesterday's thread showed, my memory is a bit fuzzy (thought he avoided the safety), but I was glad others took that play up.
To me,  
LIbud : 1/29/2015 1:56 pm : link
its the greatest Giant game I ever watched - all the Super Bowls included. 9'ers going for 3-peat, Joe-Cool, Jerry Rice, The 9ers had a Great D and played tough, just like us (well, not quite). And as biased as I am, I'd say the greatest NFL game I ever saw. Tension, back and forth, hard hitting, fake punts, guys limping on and off the field. How many HOF'ers on that field that day, on both sides and how many that were close? And as a backdrop, the country was at war. chills me to this day.
RE: great memories on this thread!  
idol-mind : 1/29/2015 2:04 pm : link
In comment 12114647 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
Aside from the taut game, tight all game long, what I remember is on every offensive snap the 49ers had, their entire line and Montana were checking out LT. He was a monster; I think part of MoM (a favorite BBI poster) part of that was LT was the focus.


LT was the reason Montana got crushed there. He came flying into the backfield and Montana had to stop rolling out to avoid a sack. He had no reason to believe that wasn't a safe move, since Marshall had been blocked to the ground earlier that play.

Early in the first quarter, Montana wound up pulling his chin strap out of his mouth after a hit. Just before the hit that took him out of the game, Steve Young was standing on the sidelines with his helmet on. The hit itself blindsided Montana, but I think a lot of people felt that he was going to get knocked out of that game.
These memories are great!  
exiled : 1/29/2015 2:08 pm : link
I'd forgotten more than I realized. I need to watch that goddamn game somewhere and watch it again.
RE: These memories are great!  
Greg from LI : 1/29/2015 2:14 pm : link
In comment 12114711 exiled said:
Quote:
I'd forgotten more than I realized. I need to watch that goddamn game somewhere and watch it again.


Just click the link
Link - ( New Window )
Thank you, Greg!  
ColHowPepper : 1/29/2015 2:26 pm : link
Gonna curl up this w/e with this.

And just seeing the Bills romp in the AFC Championship, the football world and smart money were going to give the Giants virtually no chance if they happened to get by the 49ers.

What a post-season that was. LOVE THE PARCELLS ERA LIKE NO OTHER

I agree with that  
Greg from LI : 1/29/2015 2:29 pm : link
The 2007 and 2011 teams were fun rides, but they can't hold a candle to the Parcells era for me. I loved when the Giants were big bad bullies.
There are like 4 moments when I have gone nuts  
PatersonPlank : 1/29/2015 2:38 pm : link
and when LT created and recovered Roger Craigs fumble, as the 49ers were running out the clock, was one of them. Its one of those things were you think its over but secretly praying for a miracle.
RE: I agree with that  
Victor in CT : 1/29/2015 2:40 pm : link
In comment 12114737 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
The 2007 and 2011 teams were fun rides, but they can't hold a candle to the Parcells era for me. I loved when the Giants were big bad bullies.


me too
I mean, the Giants may not have always been the best team back then  
Greg from LI : 1/29/2015 2:43 pm : link
But they were feared. Guys from those Niner teams admit that the Giants were the team they least wanted to face. No one played SF tougher than those Giants teams.
^  
ColHowPepper : 1/29/2015 3:02 pm : link
all started when Ray Perkins started putting bits and pieces together. 1981 Bill Parcells became DC and LBs coach under Perkins (having previously agreed to become DC in 1979 from HC of Air Force Academy but changed his mind and left football--I had completely forgotten that).

He installed the 3- 4 and kaboom, things began to fall into place. When Perkins left to coach UAla, Parcells was at the time pretty much an unknown, worked for one year under Erhard and then Perkins one year. What an 'effin hire!!
Thanks Greg  
exiled : 1/29/2015 3:24 pm : link
!
I've rewatched that game a few times and what startled me  
SwirlingEddie : 1/29/2015 3:56 pm : link
on revisiting it was the number of errors that were made in the game. I tended to remember it as matchup of two titans at the height of their powers, but in reality there were several turnovers, missed plays, untimely penalties and bad calls by the officials. Now some of that was due to the hard play of the opponent, but even with that, it was not a flawless display of football as partisan memory had lead me to imagine. In the end though, it still doesn't reduce my appreciation for this classic match and the quality, effort and heart that went into it.
I still have that game on 8 track tape  
chiro56 : 1/29/2015 11:28 pm : link
Hard to believe 24 years ago. I agree , most intense game I can remember . It was the end times of the great 80s teams
Great thread  
jintsjunkie : 1/31/2015 10:07 am : link
good memories...and also put me in mind of Handley and the tranny.
RE: They kicked the shit out of Hoss  
micky : 1/31/2015 10:13 am : link
In comment 12114324 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
and he kept getting up..Btw, Leonard Marshall told me that the Burt hit was fine with the team..No animus



Funny, giants.com just had a clip about this game, and Leonard Marshall came on and said that they felt Burt's hit was cheap and didn't sit well with them
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