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Want a RB in this draft?

Sy'56 : 1/29/2015 2:24 pm
I've been grading over the past few weeks....and I think the one position that really stands out in terms of quality depth is RB. In 2014, the WR class had more guys at 80+ (my personal barometer for Pro Bowl caliber prospects) that I have ever had. This year, I will have more RBs in the 80+ range than I have ever had and a handful of guys right under that tier.

The NYG duo of Jennings and Williams isn't bad at all. They both run hard between the tackles and can pick up the tough yards. They both break tackles. Jennings is a good pass catcher, although Williams leave a lot to be desired.

Now it won't matter who is in the backfield if the OL doesn't improve, but I can say with confidence that NYG will put their resources in to the OL via FA and the draft. With that in mind, I think NYG has an opportunity to bring in a playmaker to the backfield.

Whether you think the RB position is a dying breed or not....it is and always will be an incredibly important piece to the offense. Yes, you can find quality backs late in the draft. Same can be said for any position, therefore I dismiss that reply in a heartbeat.

I think as soon as round 2, NYG can be on the look out for RB value. I think you are gonna have several options in rounds 2-3-4 for guys that have higher grades than those respective draft slots.

The question becomes, do you go after a specific kind of back? A guy that can really catch the ball and be effective in space? Or do you get another between the tackles type runner? They need ball security and they need to show they can block, that is a fact as long as Coughlin is here.

A few names to consider by round:

Round 2

Todd Gurley - Georgia
Duke Johnson - Miami
Tevin Coleman - Indiana

Round 3

Ameer Abdullah - Nebraska
Jay Ajayi - Boise State
TJ Yeldon - Alabama
David Cobb - Minnesota
Mike Davis - South Carolina

Round 4

David Johnson - RB/Northern Iowa
Cameron Artis-Payne - RB/Auburn




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Id love a guy  
blueblood : 1/29/2015 2:27 pm : link
who can PR/KR as well as be solid RB.
Very deep this year  
Mark from Jersey : 1/29/2015 2:32 pm : link
For sure. Like the kid from Nebraska as a cop back.
RE: Id love a guy  
Sy'56 : 1/29/2015 2:33 pm : link
In comment 12114735 blueblood said:
Quote:
who can PR/KR as well as be solid RB.


Understood. I think return value has taken a hit because of the abundance of touchbacks...but I think it is still part of the equation. A lot of these guys can be thrown in to the role without a problem. PR a little different though.
RE: Very deep this year  
Sy'56 : 1/29/2015 2:35 pm : link
In comment 12114743 Mark from Jersey said:
Quote:
For sure. Like the kid from Nebraska as a cop back.


Abdullah was one of my favorites to watch in 2014 from a pure entertainment value. Very elusive and quick, explosive to his top speed. Tough guy and a coach's favorite. Issue with him though....incredibly small hands and has had a severe fumbling issue throughout his career. Not a dominant blocker by any means...he just has the look of a guy that Coughlin would really downgrade.
do you take a flyer on a Todd Gurley  
blueblood : 1/29/2015 2:36 pm : link
if he is there in round 2 ?? I dont know.
RB is the deepest position in this class  
sjnyfan : 1/29/2015 2:37 pm : link
I'd love to get a change of pace back to Williams and the good thing is I think we can get one in Day 3 that would contribute next season.
Sy  
njm : 1/29/2015 2:39 pm : link
I think you could add Langford to your 4th rd. list. I'm assuming you have Gordon going in the 1st.

BTW- Speaking of dying positions, have you taken a look at Michael Burton, the Rutgers FB? Kid blocks like a Mack truck and is a good receiver out of the backfield. I think some team is going to be pleasantly surprised, particularly if they get him as an UDFA.
Cobb  
Mike in NY : 1/29/2015 2:39 pm : link
I like the fact that he appears better than your typical draftee when it comes to pass blocking
RE: do you take a flyer on a Todd Gurley  
Sy'56 : 1/29/2015 2:41 pm : link
In comment 12114752 blueblood said:
Quote:
if he is there in round 2 ?? I dont know.


All comes down this physical. So I can't really answer that...but knowing how well guys have been bouncing back from ACL injuries, I would lean towards him being back at full strength at some point. And he was viewed as a top 10 caliber guy. So yes I take him in round 2.
RE: Sy  
Sy'56 : 1/29/2015 2:50 pm : link
In comment 12114759 njm said:
Quote:
I think you could add Langford to your 4th rd. list. I'm assuming you have Gordon going in the 1st.

BTW- Speaking of dying positions, have you taken a look at Michael Burton, the Rutgers FB? Kid blocks like a Mack truck and is a good receiver out of the backfield. I think some team is going to be pleasantly surprised, particularly if they get him as an UDFA.


I'm not a huge Langford guy. He's solid between the tackles, but I view him as a 5th, maybe a 4th, rounder.

And yes, Gordon will be a 1st rounder I think.
Sy: Comparison to Tre Mason (last year)?  
ij_reilly : 1/29/2015 2:51 pm : link
I was hoping the Giants would select Tre Mason last year. They took Bromley instead. Mason promptly went to the Rams.

My question - Sy, where did Tre Mason sit in your rankings last year? Over/Under 80? How might he compare to this year's crop of RBs?

I really liked Mason and am looking to gauge this year's backs in comparison to him.
RE: Sy  
Sy'56 : 1/29/2015 2:54 pm : link
In comment 12114759 njm said:
Quote:
I think you could add Langford to your 4th rd. list. I'm assuming you have Gordon going in the 1st.

BTW- Speaking of dying positions, have you taken a look at Michael Burton, the Rutgers FB? Kid blocks like a Mack truck and is a good receiver out of the backfield. I think some team is going to be pleasantly surprised, particularly if they get him as an UDFA.


I haven't looked at him yet, only in passing as I've been scouting G Kaleb Johnson. He'll be on the list of guys I take a deeper look at in April after all the more important prospects are done if I have time.
I  
AcidTest : 1/29/2015 2:54 pm : link
thought Gurley's ACL would push him into round three, but somebody might well take him in round one. His talent is obvious. I would probably pass on him even in round two. If he's still on the board then, I'd make some calls to see if anyone was interested in moving up. There's always a question about whether a RB can regain their explosiveness and cutting ability after an ACL injury. At a minimum, it's unlikely he'll contribute much in 2015 as a rookie less than a year removed from an ACL tear. Seems like a big risk to take high in the second, especially with our other needs. The RB position is also being deemphasized.

There is no question we need a speed back, but the bigger problem is the OL. People were far too critical of Williams. He is a downhill one cut runner. Sure his vision could be better, but he was a rookie running behind a putrid OL.

I agree that Abdullah doesn't seem like a Coughlin guy.

This team needs help on the lines. I wish people would stop saying that guards and DTs are not "playmakers."
Thanks Sy..  
Big Blue '56 : 1/29/2015 2:56 pm : link
I think what has become a dying breed(for now, as everything is cyclical) is the One back workhorse..Otherwise Rb is as vital as ever imo, especially if you can get one who can or will ultimately block
RE: Sy: Comparison to Tre Mason (last year)?  
Sy'56 : 1/29/2015 2:56 pm : link
In comment 12114789 ij_reilly said:
Quote:
I was hoping the Giants would select Tre Mason last year. They took Bromley instead. Mason promptly went to the Rams.

My question - Sy, where did Tre Mason sit in your rankings last year? Over/Under 80? How might he compare to this year's crop of RBs?

I really liked Mason and am looking to gauge this year's backs in comparison to him.


Mason finished with a score of 81, my top RB from the 2014 class. By the look of it so far, I think Mason would sit 4th or 5th in this draft class. However very closely behind Gordon, Johnson, Gurley, Ajayi.
RE: Thanks Sy..  
Sy'56 : 1/29/2015 2:59 pm : link
In comment 12114795 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
I think what has become a dying breed(for now, as everything is cyclical) is the One back workhorse..Otherwise Rb is as vital as ever imo, especially if you can get one who can or will ultimately block


That is a better way of putting it, yes. I still think their value can reside in round 1 however. When I see what Demarco Murray, Marshawn Lynch, Lesean McCoy are doing for their teams...hard for me to say that NYG shouldn't look at RBs until day 3.

Whenever certain positions or kinds of players become "not as important as they used to be"....I immediately think thats an opportunity for value.
I like big, punishing backs that run behind a tough OL. It wears  
Victor in CT : 1/29/2015 3:04 pm : link
down the opposition. Parcells and GY were right: YOu can't teach size. Get OLs that are big, tough and physical that put people on there asses and let Williams pound it out. Given Jennings injury history they probably need another back. Jennings could play a long time as a 3rd down specialist.
No  
Giants2012 : 1/29/2015 3:07 pm : link
I don't want an HB.

There are enough on the open market
RE: RE: Thanks Sy..  
Big Blue '56 : 1/29/2015 3:08 pm : link
In comment 12114803 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 12114795 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


I think what has become a dying breed(for now, as everything is cyclical) is the One back workhorse..Otherwise Rb is as vital as ever imo, especially if you can get one who can or will ultimately block



That is a better way of putting it, yes. I still think their value can reside in round 1 however. When I see what Demarco Murray, Marshawn Lynch, Lesean McCoy are doing for their teams...hard for me to say that NYG shouldn't look at RBs until day 3.

Whenever certain positions or kinds of players become "not as important as they used to be"....I immediately think thats an opportunity for value.


I hear you of course..But now when I think of first rd RBs, Trent "can't miss" Richardson comes to mind..Naturally i'm generalizing, perhaps overly so, but that's what springs to mind when I think of RB early in Rd. 1
RE: No  
Sy'56 : 1/29/2015 3:12 pm : link
In comment 12114819 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
I don't want an HB.

There are enough on the open market


Who exactly? And what is the cost?
Understood BB'56  
Sy'56 : 1/29/2015 3:12 pm : link
But can't we say that about every position?
I want Coleman.....  
Reb8thVA : 1/29/2015 3:13 pm : link
Bring back Earth, Wind and Fire!
True Sy,  
Big Blue '56 : 1/29/2015 3:18 pm : link
but it APPEARS that more solid RBs can be found in the later rounds than other positions..Has that been your objective observation through the years, OR, is it a mere exaggeration on my part?
All things being equal, RB in 3rd Round/Mason  
ij_reilly : 1/29/2015 3:21 pm : link
Thanks for the feedback on Mason.

Mason was picked in Round 3. So, if this year's draft follows the pattern of last year's draft, then a very good running back ought to be available in Round 3.
I like both Johnsons…….  
Simms11 : 1/29/2015 3:22 pm : link
Duke and David, but think the Giants will probably address RB in the 3rd or 4th and so I can see a guy like David Johnson, whom the Giants met with at the Senior Bowl, and possibly a guy like Cobb getting the nod then. Being that this draft is so deep in RB talent, I think the Giants can get a very good back this year in the 3rd or 4th rounds. The two that I mentioned showed nice speed and change of direction on tape and I think the Giants will be looking for that change of pace type, as they alreafdy have two thumpers. Additionally, they need someone that defenses will have to respect on third down. The offense will be that much more dangerous.
I think Coughlin  
RetroJint : 1/29/2015 3:28 pm : link
is enamored of Darkwa, who has a chance to beat out an uninspiring (to me) first 2. Then to fit definitions , draft position & size-skill set, I think Cobb. Although Ameer would be my choice.
Duke Johnson  
jlukes : 1/29/2015 3:28 pm : link
in the 3rd
Not sure, BB'56  
Sy'56 : 1/29/2015 3:42 pm : link
I'm sure if you did a study on what positions have fared best on day 3 of the draft, RB would be up there. But the margin between them and other positions would be small I bet.

I look around the league a lot....at depth charts...and I still notice that a lot of teams have RBs that make a big impact that were drafted in the first 2-3 rounds.

Unofficially....well over half the teams in the league use a RB that was drafted in first three rounds...maybe even close to two thirds.

It's an important position and NYG doesn't have anyone there that should factor in to the decision process draft weekend. Not saying they need to go after one early...but man there are some really good backs here to pick from.
Sy - My Theory  
Samiam : 1/29/2015 4:07 pm : link
I wrote this on another thread but no one commented so let me try again. With this many really good RBs in the draft, I could easily see teams that want an RB thinking that they could wait a round or a few rounds and still get a good RB in the draft. So, if that's true, Gordon might drop to the 2nd round, Gurley or Coleman to the 3rd, Johnson to the 4th, etc.

Does this make any sense to you?
Would Love To Get Gurley in Rd 2  
Jim in Tampa : 1/29/2015 4:18 pm : link
If he's healthy, he's the top RB in the draft and he would be a steal.

Everybody's talking about drafting players at other positions, but the Giants need a dominant RB...and bad OL or not, their current RBs are average at best.

A dominant RB opens things up for Eli and OBJ and gives the defense some more time off the field.

OT or G in FA...Shelton or Shaq in RD 1 and Gurley in RD2.
Gurley is the most impressive  
Lionhart28 : 1/29/2015 4:19 pm : link
college back I've seen since Peterson. I'd take him in round 2 in a heartbeat if comfortable with the results of the physical.
Great Post  
Emil : 1/29/2015 4:21 pm : link
This draft is loaded at RB, and I concur with your view that the Giants need to add one more horse. I like any of he following:

Duke Johnson - RD 2
Jay Ajayi - RD 3
David Johnson - RD 4

Honestly, out of those three, I think Johnson brings the most value to the table. He can return kicks, work on third down, catch passes out of the backfield, is a good blocker, and can play FB and HB if needed.
RBs by round  
giants#1 : 1/29/2015 4:21 pm : link
Perusing the linked list, I'd say rounds 2-3 are the ideal time to grab a stud RB.
RBs by Round - ( New Window )
RE: RE: No  
Giants2012 : 1/29/2015 4:39 pm : link
In comment 12114826 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 12114819 Giants2012 said:


Quote:


I don't want an HB.

There are enough on the open market



Who exactly? And what is the cost?


The link is a list the same size as last year. Many didn't even get a job. HB's are everywhere and I'd rather not waste a top 4 pick on one. Afterwards, I'd roll the dice

With Jacobs and Bradshaw acquired later, I don't see any reason to roll the dice early. Especially with this many holes.
Here is a list the size of last years - ( New Window )
Yes.  
Red Dog : 1/29/2015 4:48 pm : link
Gotta believe that they add one some how, probably in the draft. My guess is 3rd day somewhere (they have 5 picks in rounds 4 through 7) given the needs at OL, DL, and S. But I would not be upset with a back in any round as long as they get the value and don't ignore the other more pressing needs.
RE: RE: RE: No  
Curtis in VA : 1/29/2015 4:50 pm : link
In comment 12114976 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
In comment 12114826 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


In comment 12114819 Giants2012 said:


Quote:


I don't want an HB.

There are enough on the open market



Who exactly? And what is the cost?



The link is a list the same size as last year. Many didn't even get a job. HB's are everywhere and I'd rather not waste a top 4 pick on one. Afterwards, I'd roll the dice

With Jacobs and Bradshaw acquired later, I don't see any reason to roll the dice early. Especially with this many holes. Here is a list the size of last years - ( New Window )


That list is going to shrivel up significantly over the next few months as teams resign their own.
Jacobs was a 4th rd. pick  
njm : 1/29/2015 4:51 pm : link
.
Also,  
Curtis in VA : 1/29/2015 4:54 pm : link
Bradshaw is an exception. We also drafted Michael Cox and Da'Rel Scott.
RB is definite concern  
#10* : 1/29/2015 5:01 pm : link
Think they need to target one in the 3rd round. Abdullah would be a great pick.
Thanks for your review, Sy!  
TC : 1/29/2015 6:08 pm : link
Always spot on.

But I wonder if some of these RB's may go a little earlier or later. RB often seems to get drafted later than the talent would suggest. I wonder if Johnson might slip a bit, and I think someone might actually take a flier on Abdullah in the 2nd.

The more I've watched the more impressed I've become with T J Yeldon. 6'2", decent size but wiry, and seems very strong. GREAT running skills, almost always falls forward for a couple extra yards, and there's even one play where he's dragging 3 tacklers after receiving a pass. Pretty good hands, and can also return kicks.

It could be argued he has a good supporting case at Alabama, and it's true, but the other side of that is that he's playing against SEC quality competition.

I have concerns about Andre Williams. As powerful as he can be, he gets too often gets dropped wherever he's touched.
T. J. Yeldon Video  
TC : 1/29/2015 6:10 pm : link
.
Video - ( New Window )
We definitely have a need  
TMS : 1/29/2015 6:11 pm : link
for a complete RB to start and play a few years. Everyone in the NFC East seems to have one but us.
The idea is to double down  
idiotsavant : 1/29/2015 7:10 pm : link
triple down and quadruple down on a theme- the theme of keeping our QB clean and giving him pass options.

The archetype of a big back that can pass protect with a vengeance, catch reliably, has a good sense of timing and decent route runner.

If not a burner, then these players can be had for sure.

And here is a thought, what about the #1 Fullback prospect, what is his name and round expectation?

(Sy is the gift that keeps on giving- in a good way)
Jalston Fowler 5'11" 264  
idiotsavant : 1/29/2015 7:20 pm : link
''Fowler signed with Alabama as a running back and has also seen time at H-back. New offensive coordinator Lane Kiffin is expected to use Fowler as a more traditional fullback in 2014 and it is a role that suits the bruiser well. Five of Fowler's seven receptions in '13 went for touchdowns''

(cbs)


My thought is you add specific types of role players at WR, RB and TE some way some how, sort of build up the low and middle of the route tree, and save the star treatment for DL and OL this year. Mid rounds for safety.
role players:  
idiotsavant : 1/29/2015 7:34 pm : link
wr- "uncanny sense of space on the field,finds open spots in zone and gets open quickly and predictably, not afraid to go over the middle and will stretch out to make a catch when it is needed, looking to secure the ball above all else, quarterbacks best friend, tough, good hands, need not be a burner nor 6'4" nor a YAC machine."

rb-"tough and reliable pass protector, when he does get the ball, he inflicts pain on would be tacklers, hard to bring down one on one, reliable route runner with decent hands, qbs best friend, not a burner"

Te- "reliable technician in pass protection blocking, 'gets it' as a run blocker, able to wall off and get some push, reliable route runner, tough to tackle, gets his head down and drags people, shows up big in big games, gets it regarding angles in pass receiving, will sacrifice his body to make the catch above all else"
I want a pr/kr who can catch the ball well out of the backfield  
Ira : 1/29/2015 7:36 pm : link
and who can fly.
David Johnson  
dcp : 1/29/2015 7:52 pm : link
played well in the Senior Bowl, good size, nice change of direction and can catch the ball. Scored 63 TD's in 50 games.
do prefer the lone setback sets  
idiotsavant : 1/29/2015 7:53 pm : link
however, the fowler reminds me of BJAC, maybe better? He appears really on the ball with the pass protecting, sort of nifty picking his running lanes, check it out.

so, for lone setbacks, you want an able and willing pass blocker, this really helps those deep routes develop
Sy  
Joey in VA : 1/29/2015 7:55 pm : link
Abdullah is going to be a steal IMO. He's short but he's got that Joe Morris bulk and explosion to the edge when he gets a crease. He's got uncanny vision and the ability to avoid hits. If he tests well in Indy, he's going to shoot up the boards.
RE: No  
djm : 1/29/2015 8:09 pm : link
In comment 12114819 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
I don't want an HB.

There are enough on the open market


Wut
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