The Browns are in the top 5 in cap room for 2015 and have two first round picks (#12 and #19). In addition, they had two first round picks last year and both disappointed. And they had trouble stopping the run and rushing the passer. And Pettine knows he only gets so many losing seasons in a row before he is on the hot seat.
In my mind, that adds up to a team that has the money to overpay JPP and the draft picks to give up in exchange for him.
I think so as well. But would they trade him after franchising him? The Browns have about $35M in cap space. I also worry about Danny Boy in DC backing up a brinks truck to JPP's house. He did something similar, albeit with a smaller deal, with Cofield.
Quote:
Sounds pretty steep for the Browns who could sign Suh and keep the picks.
They could sign Suh and JPP. They are loaded with cap room.
The Giants could do the same. The 2016 number is tiny
Quote:
I have no doubt about that. Mara basically said as much. If the Giants are going to negotiate a long term deal with JPP it'll happen after they've tagged him.
I think so as well. But would they trade him after franchising him? The Browns have about $35M in cap space. I also worry about Danny Boy in DC backing up a brinks truck to JPP's house. He did something similar, albeit with a smaller deal, with Cofield.
JPP may not be a target of the Browns, but if he is, they have the money and the draft picks to make it happen.
Quote:
In comment 12114806 Milton said:
Quote:
I have no doubt about that. Mara basically said as much. If the Giants are going to negotiate a long term deal with JPP it'll happen after they've tagged him.
I think so as well. But would they trade him after franchising him? The Browns have about $35M in cap space. I also worry about Danny Boy in DC backing up a brinks truck to JPP's house. He did something similar, albeit with a smaller deal, with Cofield.
The Redskins aren't going to part with the 5th pick in this year's draft and next year's first round pick for JPP (and that is what it would cost them if the Giants don't agree to a trade). On the other hand, the Giants would be more willing to trade with the Browns if the price was right. The Browns could dangle either of their two first round picks and throw in a third round pick this year or a second round pick next year.
I should have been clearer regarding the Redskins. They won't part with the picks if we franchise JPP as you note. But on the off chance that we don't, he'd be a FA, and could sign with anybody. In that situation we wouldn't get any compensation, except possibly a comp pick in 2016, depending on our other FA signings.
As I said, I think they will franchise JPP, but they might not if they don't think they can reach a long term deal with him. He's going to be looking for a lot of $$$. They could then use that money for other players. Remember that we have to think about a long term deal with Prince.
Why do you say that? Do the Lions have cap issues?
Quote:
The Giants could do the same. The 2016 number is tiny
The Browns have much more money to carry over than the Giants from year to year and they don't have big money invested in the QB position the way the Giants do (and will for the foreseeable future), so no matter how you slice it, the Browns have more money to overpay JPP than the Giants do. So while the Giants have the cap room to make JPP a fair deal, the Browns have the cap room to make him an outrageous offer.
JPP may not be a target of the Browns, but if he is, they have the money and the draft picks to make it happen.
How do you figure. See link please
2016 cap numbers - add/subtract anticipated dollars - ( New Window )
My guess is that JPP is a Giant in '15 and is free in '16.
I can see the following teams being seriously interested in trading trading for JPP:
Oakland, Atlanta (if they sign Dan Quinn as HC as expected), Tampa Bay, Carolina.
As far as two first round picks, if we put the non-exclusive franchise tag on JPP, then another team would need to give two first round picks as compensation. If Oakland were seriously interested, I could see them trading their #4 to Cleveland (putting the Browns in range for one of the QBs or Amari Cooper) for their two first round picks, then just sign JPP.
I am not sure what JPPs trade value is right now, but I could see it happening. I do see a first round pick being a possibility, but even if we got something like an early 2nd round pick and a fourth round pick would be pretty decent. It really depends on how much teams want JPP.
There aren't a lot of stud 4-3 DEs around in either free agency or the draft and JPP is young enough to build a defence around for the next 6 years or so.
My guess is that JPP is a Giant in '15 and is free in '16.
I am not sure NYG wants to pay JPP the kind of money he will get in free agency. I wouldn't be surprised if we intend to frachise him and then explore trade options.
Quote:
In comment 12114815 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
The Giants could do the same. The 2016 number is tiny
The Browns have much more money to carry over than the Giants from year to year and they don't have big money invested in the QB position the way the Giants do (and will for the foreseeable future), so no matter how you slice it, the Browns have more money to overpay JPP than the Giants do. So while the Giants have the cap room to make JPP a fair deal, the Browns have the cap room to make him an outrageous offer.
JPP may not be a target of the Browns, but if he is, they have the money and the draft picks to make it happen.
How do you figure. See link please 2016 cap numbers - add/subtract anticipated dollars - ( New Window )
Quote:
In comment 12114837 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 12114815 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
The Giants could do the same. The 2016 number is tiny
The Browns have much more money to carry over than the Giants from year to year and they don't have big money invested in the QB position the way the Giants do (and will for the foreseeable future), so no matter how you slice it, the Browns have more money to overpay JPP than the Giants do. So while the Giants have the cap room to make JPP a fair deal, the Browns have the cap room to make him an outrageous offer.
JPP may not be a target of the Browns, but if he is, they have the money and the draft picks to make it happen.
How do you figure. See link please 2016 cap numbers - add/subtract anticipated dollars - ( New Window )
By the time 2016 actually rolls around, the Browns will have a lot more cap room than the Giants. Carry-over from 2015 and Eli's contract will have a lot to do with it.
So do the Math. Let's say Eli got $20 million a year and JPP got $15 million per year. Look at the number. They still have a ton. You're taking $35 off of $85 which leaves $50 million. The Giants are in better shape than they've ever been in.
Don't see how the Browns are a threat, why the Giants would allow JPP to hit the open market nor why the Browns would sign JPP to an offer sheet if he's franchised rather than just sign Suh. Oh, and the Giants CAN afford all three.
You're probably right. I'd love to go into this draft with the 9th, 12th and 19th picks, but it's not likely to happen.
Quote:
to franchise Suh and he will become a free agent
Why do you say that? Do the Lions have cap issues?
Suh's cap # last year was ~$22 million. So his cap # this year neads to be 120% of that, or ~$27 million. Franchise tag for JPP will be around $15 million I think.
No on SUH
Shelton gives giants 5 controlled years at a decent salary. And him and Hankins would make a very good and very young interior line
I'd rather see them spend their cap money on Randall Cobb and Draft OL in first round Second round RB. Third Round Safety
Give Eli more weapons and protection
That really depends on how much JPP is looking for.
If you look at the top DE contracts around at the moment, he is probably looking in the ballpark of $13m to $16m per year with a 5 to 6 year deal. There are a few 4-3 teams with quite a lot of cap room who will be seriously interested in JPP.
I can certainly see a case where JPP gets priced out of our price range. Even a one year franchise tag is probably more than we are comfortable paying.
He is young and teams can build around him, plus there aren't a lot of the taller quality pass rushers around this year (in the draft or free agency), which means 4-3 teams wanting that kind of elite pass rusher will be interested, I wouldn't completely rule out 3-4 teams either.
Maxx Williams
TJ Yeldon
Kurtis Drummond or Anthony Harris
Quote:
But not that stupid.
You're probably right. I'd love to go into this draft with the 9th, 12th and 19th picks, but it's not likely to happen.
I'd rather see the Giants sign JPP long term...but if the Giants can't or are not willing to pay.... the above scenario puts the Giants really good long term shape by stock piling good young players...plus we could use the saving from not having to sign JPP long term and use it for Suh
One of these days he's going to go on a stomping fit and paralyze somebody. He's bad news.
Rolle will be very contract friendly or gone. When the FA rush period is over we can zero in on 2-3 scenario on #9.
IF Browns were to sign JPP somehow, we'd get a 3rd rd comp pick to offset what we sign.
Cut Kiwi, get Beason to take a salary reduction (if possible) and with Eli renegotiating we'll be in good shape.
Suh's getting more sacks than JPP. I get the personality of Suh but it's not like JPP is Lawrence Taylor out there.
The only reason Giants Tag JPP is if they're close on the deal. in the meanwhile, they'll threaten the tag to entice him to sign. and in the meanwhile, he'll threaten to hold out or threaten to take the tag money and hamstring the Giants ability to compete elsewhere in free agency.
The dumbest thing in the world would be to tag him hoping to trade him, but not having a trade agreement in place first, or not being close to a contract agreement.
The Giants need JPP and if they cannot replace him for 2015, the probably will have to resort to tagging him. I hope he re-signs here but I think his asking price will be very high even though he hasn't been the same player in 4 years that he was.
Tagging him is better than getting nothing for him. Maybe a trade or a contract could be worked out later. At least the Giants would have 1 year to prepare for his departure.
He will then have to ask himself, do I risk giving up all that guaranteed money for an even bigger contract next offseason? I think the Giants will offer him a good long term deal along with a decent amount guaranteed, but they are not going to offer him an obscene deal. I don't think we trade him either without getting at minimum a top 10 1st rounder back.
Doubt Suh would want to play in Cleveland anyway.
Jared Allen...
And others who weren't tagged, but were traded under similar dynamics (with a team giving up a 1st round pick and backing up the Brinks truck as well)....
Jason Peters....
On April 17, 2009, the Eagles announced they had signed Peters to a six-year contract for $60 million that will keep him in Philadelphia through 2014. Peters had two years left on his last contract, so Philadelphia had essentially torn up the last two seasons and given him a new contract.
The point is that there is a history of teams giving up both huge money and 1st round draft picks for a "franchise-type" player.