"Might be tackle, but probably ends up as a guard at the next level" type
We already have the with Justin Pugh, his up and down 2014 is a major concern and most likely will haved to be moved inside.
Unless there is a bonafide Mauler / Right Tackle type I would like to invest this draft pick elsewhere and bolster the O-Line through free agency
This.
You don't use the #9 overall pick on a guy who might not even be a tackle, no matter how great your OL need is. (Second round is another matter.)
Interesting that they seem to think Peat has higher upside as a tackle but have the Giants drafting Scherff anyway. if the Giants see the two prospects that way, they'll take Peat.
"Might be tackle, but probably ends up as a guard at the next level" type
We already have the with Justin Pugh, his up and down 2014 is a major concern and most likely will haved to be moved inside.
Unless there is a bonafide Mauler / Right Tackle type I would like to invest this draft pick elsewhere and bolster the O-Line through free agency
see the link below.
If he's likely to be a good tackle, and the downside is him being a mauler at guard for many years to come, i have no problem with that Link - ( New Window )
I could see him being a very good G but I am not sure he has elite G upside like someone like La'el Collins (who I think could play anywhere but C on the OL). If Peat and Collins are off the board I would rather wait until Round 2 if we are taking an interior OL because I do not think the difference between Scherff and Cann/Erving is as large as the difference between 1st Round and 2nd Round on the DL
I've looked at his tape and I don't see it?! What am I missing? Peat goes right after?! The tape I saw on Peat, he actually looked better then Scherff to me.
Is this guy that good that we take him at 9? I know we have to continue to improve the Oline, but I don't want to reach. That is what has gotten Reese in trouble before. Quite a dilemma as to who to take and get value at that position.
...All the talk about him sounds more like groupthink rather than a really objective assessment. The main things I've heard about him in the past is that he has little to no chance to be a Tackle in the NFL. As a Guard prospect, he gets some serious love, however.
It seems to me that the rest of the Tackle prospects are red-chippers, but certainly better Tackle prospects than Scherff. Scherff may be a blue-chip Guard, however.
And I don't mean red-chipper as a pejorative. Any of them could turn out to be terrific, or they could bust. It's just the nature of the beast.
Jake Fisher, OL from Oregon. He reminds me alot of Kyle Long and Lane Johnson. They all have length and are very athletic for their size. Long and Johnson were considered mid round picks following their bowl games but after good workouts made their way into the 1st rd in 2013.
Johnson was the 2nd pick overall out of Oklahoma. Although he missed four games due to suspension this year, he made big improvements from his rookie year at RT and is a vital part of the success Chip Kelly has on offense.
Long went 20th overall. I think that had to do with attending three schools in college including a year where he played baseball and another playing defensive end but his talent has shown on the field since he's been in the NFL. He's already a two-time bowler in as many years in the league at LG and was 2nd team All-Pro this year. Just like Fisher, Long was a Chip Kelly recruit at Oregon.
I really think Fisher is a similar talent. Just like Long and Johnson he's 6'6" and although he's about 300 lbs now he has a frame to add about 10-20 lbs just like they did. Despite the current frame he still plays with nastiness in the run game and is a two time winner of the Duck Pancake Award, for the Oregon lineman with the most knockdown blocks. Keep an eye on this name in about 3 weeks.
the interest part of the mock is Shelton is long gone by 9 as are the DEs. if indeed they are gone, the giants are picking between OL and WR, neither option of which really excites me at pick 9.
this scenario screams of a potential for a trade down, even if you don't get appropriate value.
I agree. I think we could, but likely wouldnt, trade down as far as 15; if, after looking at the FA moves of #10-15 teams still likely leaves us a player that can start immediately.
Reese stated that we probably would have taken Zack Martin at 12 if Odell wasn't there. No one saw Zack Martin as a LT in the NFL...he was a RT at best but probably a guard.
How is picking at 9 THAT different from picking at 12? If we would have picked Martin last year, how can you say there's no way we take Scherff this year since he's a RT/Guard. Not saying I think Scherff should necessarily be the pick, but some of your guys' line of thinking is mind boggling.
Reese stated that we probably would have taken Zack Martin at 12 if Odell wasn't there. No one saw Zack Martin as a LT in the NFL...he was a RT at best but probably a guard.
How is picking at 9 THAT different from picking at 12? If we would have picked Martin last year, how can you say there's no way we take Scherff this year since he's a RT/Guard. Not saying I think Scherff should necessarily be the pick, but some of your guys' line of thinking is mind boggling.
Martin would have been next after Beckham, but that was because Taylor Lewan, who people did see as a LT, was off the board. From the comments I believe they were ranked Beckham-Lewan-Martin when they got to Pick 9 or 10. I also think Martin is more likely to play OT in the NFL than Scherff. I do not think the Giants would write Scherff off the board, but I could see them liking Peat or Collins, who both have the potential to play LT in the NFL, over Scherff
Reese stated that we probably would have taken Zack Martin at 12 if Odell wasn't there. No one saw Zack Martin as a LT in the NFL...he was a RT at best but probably a guard.
How is picking at 9 THAT different from picking at 12? If we would have picked Martin last year, how can you say there's no way we take Scherff this year since he's a RT/Guard. Not saying I think Scherff should necessarily be the pick, but some of your guys' line of thinking is mind boggling.
Martin would have been next after Beckham, but that was because Taylor Lewan, who people did see as a LT, was off the board. From the comments I believe they were ranked Beckham-Lewan-Martin when they got to Pick 9 or 10. I also think Martin is more likely to play OT in the NFL than Scherff. I do not think the Giants would write Scherff off the board, but I could see them liking Peat or Collins, who both have the potential to play LT in the NFL, over Scherff
Agreed - think Lewan would have been the pick over Martin as well. Obviously tackles are valued more than guards, but I don't think we would write off Scherff completely if we think he can be a stud guard.
I like Peat but feel like he'll sort of be hit or miss. Definitely a tackle and not a guard.
Collins is sort of best of both worlds. Like what I saw out of him at the senior bowl and definitely think he can play LT at the next level, although may not be right away. Will be interesting to find out how the Giants rank them.
Agree with above. That certainly sounds in line with how the Giants saw the last draft and likely this one.
If they think Collins can play LT at a high level , he might in tier 1. Peat is the best pure tackle of the bunch. He has had moments of absolute dominance. I think his inconsistency is mainly mental. He has all the tools you look for in a blue-chip LT. If the Giants think it is just a matter of maturing (or something else correctable) , I could see him very easily being the pick.
Alos Parker it sounds like may need to be in the conversation as well.
In Fa schreff is the plug in at LG or rt and go for week 1 pick.
If we sign a starting type LG or rt would thunk we go peat or Collins who has the upside to surplant Beatty. Which would put the whole line on the hotseat
Let's face it. The Giants are going to go by their draft board and none of us have a clue what their draft board will say. There are guys who are being talked about in the top ten who will be 2nd round prospects or worse on the Giants board. And there are guys who are currently considered late first rounders or second rounders who will be in the Giants top ten. Last year at this time nobody on BBI was talking about OBJ because none of the draftniks considered him a top 20 pick last January. Two years ago, Justin Pugh wasn't even on the BBI radar until a week before the draft. Three years ago at this time it was assumed that Prince would be gone in the top ten and I was being told that the 19th pick was too early for Nate Solder (my target in that draft).
Bottomline: It is flat out wrong to say that the Giants won't draft an OG or ORT with a top ten pick without knowing what the Giants will do in free agency, without knowing what the Giants draft board will look like, and without knowing how the Giants braintrust views their current and future needs.
This doesn't mean we can't discuss it! It's what we do! But, please, none of this "the Giants would never do this," "The Giants would never do that," because the Giants will do whatever the fuck their big board tells them to do and none of us have any idea how that board is gonna look.
That being said, there is no way the Giants take a WR with the 9th pick.
Just kidding....
Just to give you an idea of how different the Giants board can look...
Draft Countdown latest mock - ( New Window )
We already have the with Justin Pugh, his up and down 2014 is a major concern and most likely will haved to be moved inside.
Unless there is a bonafide Mauler / Right Tackle type I would like to invest this draft pick elsewhere and bolster the O-Line through free agency
We already have the with Justin Pugh, his up and down 2014 is a major concern and most likely will haved to be moved inside.
Unless there is a bonafide Mauler / Right Tackle type I would like to invest this draft pick elsewhere and bolster the O-Line through free agency
You don't use the #9 overall pick on a guy who might not even be a tackle, no matter how great your OL need is. (Second round is another matter.)
Interesting that they seem to think Peat has higher upside as a tackle but have the Giants drafting Scherff anyway. if the Giants see the two prospects that way, they'll take Peat.
We already have the with Justin Pugh, his up and down 2014 is a major concern and most likely will haved to be moved inside.
Unless there is a bonafide Mauler / Right Tackle type I would like to invest this draft pick elsewhere and bolster the O-Line through free agency
see the link below.
If he's likely to be a good tackle, and the downside is him being a mauler at guard for many years to come, i have no problem with that
Link - ( New Window )
Is this guy that good that we take him at 9? I know we have to continue to improve the Oline, but I don't want to reach. That is what has gotten Reese in trouble before. Quite a dilemma as to who to take and get value at that position.
It seems to me that the rest of the Tackle prospects are red-chippers, but certainly better Tackle prospects than Scherff. Scherff may be a blue-chip Guard, however.
And I don't mean red-chipper as a pejorative. Any of them could turn out to be terrific, or they could bust. It's just the nature of the beast.
Johnson was the 2nd pick overall out of Oklahoma. Although he missed four games due to suspension this year, he made big improvements from his rookie year at RT and is a vital part of the success Chip Kelly has on offense.
Long went 20th overall. I think that had to do with attending three schools in college including a year where he played baseball and another playing defensive end but his talent has shown on the field since he's been in the NFL. He's already a two-time bowler in as many years in the league at LG and was 2nd team All-Pro this year. Just like Fisher, Long was a Chip Kelly recruit at Oregon.
I really think Fisher is a similar talent. Just like Long and Johnson he's 6'6" and although he's about 300 lbs now he has a frame to add about 10-20 lbs just like they did. Despite the current frame he still plays with nastiness in the run game and is a two time winner of the Duck Pancake Award, for the Oregon lineman with the most knockdown blocks. Keep an eye on this name in about 3 weeks.
^^^^^^^^
this scenario screams of a potential for a trade down, even if you don't get appropriate value.
How is picking at 9 THAT different from picking at 12? If we would have picked Martin last year, how can you say there's no way we take Scherff this year since he's a RT/Guard. Not saying I think Scherff should necessarily be the pick, but some of your guys' line of thinking is mind boggling.
How is picking at 9 THAT different from picking at 12? If we would have picked Martin last year, how can you say there's no way we take Scherff this year since he's a RT/Guard. Not saying I think Scherff should necessarily be the pick, but some of your guys' line of thinking is mind boggling.
Martin would have been next after Beckham, but that was because Taylor Lewan, who people did see as a LT, was off the board. From the comments I believe they were ranked Beckham-Lewan-Martin when they got to Pick 9 or 10. I also think Martin is more likely to play OT in the NFL than Scherff. I do not think the Giants would write Scherff off the board, but I could see them liking Peat or Collins, who both have the potential to play LT in the NFL, over Scherff
Quote:
Reese stated that we probably would have taken Zack Martin at 12 if Odell wasn't there. No one saw Zack Martin as a LT in the NFL...he was a RT at best but probably a guard.
How is picking at 9 THAT different from picking at 12? If we would have picked Martin last year, how can you say there's no way we take Scherff this year since he's a RT/Guard. Not saying I think Scherff should necessarily be the pick, but some of your guys' line of thinking is mind boggling.
Martin would have been next after Beckham, but that was because Taylor Lewan, who people did see as a LT, was off the board. From the comments I believe they were ranked Beckham-Lewan-Martin when they got to Pick 9 or 10. I also think Martin is more likely to play OT in the NFL than Scherff. I do not think the Giants would write Scherff off the board, but I could see them liking Peat or Collins, who both have the potential to play LT in the NFL, over Scherff
Agreed - think Lewan would have been the pick over Martin as well. Obviously tackles are valued more than guards, but I don't think we would write off Scherff completely if we think he can be a stud guard.
I like Peat but feel like he'll sort of be hit or miss. Definitely a tackle and not a guard.
Collins is sort of best of both worlds. Like what I saw out of him at the senior bowl and definitely think he can play LT at the next level, although may not be right away. Will be interesting to find out how the Giants rank them.
If they think Collins can play LT at a high level , he might in tier 1. Peat is the best pure tackle of the bunch. He has had moments of absolute dominance. I think his inconsistency is mainly mental. He has all the tools you look for in a blue-chip LT. If the Giants think it is just a matter of maturing (or something else correctable) , I could see him very easily being the pick.
Alos Parker it sounds like may need to be in the conversation as well.
Scherf. And there seems to be others too.who could be the answer. Go OT, OLB in two.
If we sign a starting type LG or rt would thunk we go peat or Collins who has the upside to surplant Beatty. Which would put the whole line on the hotseat
The Giants nowadays tend to favor LSU players,and there next Alabama draft pick will be the first in a long time.So I'm not sure about Landon Collins.
A lot of mockers have him around there. Wouldn't surprise me if the Giants took him.
Bottomline: It is flat out wrong to say that the Giants won't draft an OG or ORT with a top ten pick without knowing what the Giants will do in free agency, without knowing what the Giants draft board will look like, and without knowing how the Giants braintrust views their current and future needs.
This doesn't mean we can't discuss it! It's what we do! But, please, none of this "the Giants would never do this," "The Giants would never do that," because the Giants will do whatever the fuck their big board tells them to do and none of us have any idea how that board is gonna look.
That being said, there is no way the Giants take a WR with the 9th pick.
Just kidding....
1. Leonard Davis
2. Santana Moss
3. Gerard Warren
4. Nate Clements
5. Andre Carter