I can say with confidence that they divide into two camps: those who use spinal and cranial-sacral manipulation as an adjunct to traditional medicine, and those who have pretty much abandoned mainstream western medicine.
Then again, there's a very large proportion of traditional MDs who believe that Osteopathy and eastern medicine have absolutely no value, so there are nut jobs and extremists on both sides.
RE: Mike, having used DO's most of my adult life... Â
I can say with confidence that they divide into two camps: those who use spinal and cranial-sacral manipulation as an adjunct to traditional medicine, and those who have pretty much abandoned mainstream western medicine.
Then again, there's a very large proportion of traditional MDs who believe that Osteopathy and eastern medicine have absolutely no value, so there are nut jobs and extremists on both sides.
That's not been my experience. I only know a couple of DOs (although I've talked with many), and I haven't seen any indication that they practice any differently than MDs. My PCP is a DO who is part of a practice that consists mostly of MDs. And if I'm not mistaken, he runs the residency program at the local hospital that consists of MDs. And in almost 30 years he has never suggested anything close to a "manipulation", even when I had severe back problems, he sent me for imaging studies and then referred me to a surgeon ... same as an MD would have done.
comes from within a milieu of distrust and hatred of the government, of science and of other public institutions.
It is a good thing to have a healthy amount of skepticism about any powerful institution, but the outright paranoia and anger that has been engendered toward both government as a whole and science/intellectuals seems to drive otherwise reasonable people to support unreasonable positions.
There is no rational argument against immunization. All there is to argue against it is emotive based anecdotal evidence. Yet, because "they" tell you to do something, like a defiant child some will refuse.
I don't think it's as easy a call as some make it out to be... Â
for a perfectly healthy child it should be a non-issue. Get your kid vaccinated or forfeit access to public school, etc etc. But doctors are not necessarily going to be unanimous as to who is or isn't healthy enough to be vaccinated and in close cases where there is a legit controversy over the appropriateness of vaccination I think the parents absolutely should have a say.
for a perfectly healthy child it should be a non-issue. Get your kid vaccinated or forfeit access to public school, etc etc. But doctors are not necessarily going to be unanimous as to who is or isn't healthy enough to be vaccinated and in close cases where there is a legit controversy over the appropriateness of vaccination I think the parents absolutely should have a say.
For children with legitimate medical concerns there is absolutely a place for choice. However, this problem is not stemming from that - it's from healthy children going without the shots because their parents have been hoodwinked by anti-science agenda peddling idiots.
and in multinational corporations is healthy when intelligently considered. Skepticism in science, a deeply disturbing trend among even those that would seemingly know better, is a tragic disgrace...
and in multinational corporations is healthy when intelligently considered. Skepticism in science, a deeply disturbing trend among even those that would seemingly know better, is a tragic disgrace...
and in multinational corporations is healthy when intelligently considered. Skepticism in science, a deeply disturbing trend among even those that would seemingly know better, is a tragic disgrace...
Exactly...thank you.
And as it relates to the CA law allowing these dingleberries to send their kids to school w/o vaccinations, this place is the epicenter of ignorance-fueled political correctness, or maybe politically correctness-fueled ignorance, or both.
We just got an email from our kids schools over the weekend that there are now cases in their schools. Oh what a shock...the disease is alive and well where the stupidity is greatest !
And, in particular, immune responses to them. I absolutely know the benefits of vaccination.
And yet, I'm opposed to mandatory vaccination. I think it should be the parents choice.
However, choices have consequences. I think unvaccinated children should not be allowed to schools, amusement parks, public places, etc. also, other parents and children and regular adults who might come into contact with unvaccinated people should be informed.
It's your choice, but the vaccine choice should be intertwined with choosing to be a part of a society. IMO
RE: I think I'm pretty well versed on infectious diseaes Â
And, in particular, immune responses to them. I absolutely know the benefits of vaccination.
And yet, I'm opposed to mandatory vaccination. I think it should be the parents choice.
However, choices have consequences. I think unvaccinated children should not be allowed to schools, amusement parks, public places, etc. also, other parents and children and regular adults who might come into contact with unvaccinated people should be informed.
It's your choice, but the vaccine choice should be intertwined with choosing to be a part of a society. IMO
I'm ok with this...as parents if you choose not to vaccinate your kids, then they shouldn't be allowed to partake in public locations. However, then wouldn't this start a firestorm of "discrimination" suits?
child in a locked car with the windows closed engine off and it's over 90 degrees outside ? Why shouldn't it be a parents right to go shopping with their kid in a car?
and sometimes they misdiagnose not through incompentancy but external factors. However Science is science and the facts are facts. You can find anecdotal instances that counter truths but that doesn't make the truth less true
So is it fair to fine a parent for not vaccinating? Â
Sounds terrble, but society must bear the costs for an individuals decision. And they are considerable.
Maybe they can't be fined, but if I were their insurer, I would make their premiums very uncomfortable. Like driving, if you are higher risk, you pay more.
RE: I think I'm pretty well versed on infectious diseaes Â
And, in particular, immune responses to them. I absolutely know the benefits of vaccination.
And yet, I'm opposed to mandatory vaccination. I think it should be the parents choice.
However, choices have consequences. I think unvaccinated children should not be allowed to schools, amusement parks, public places, etc. also, other parents and children and regular adults who might come into contact with unvaccinated people should be informed.
It's your choice, but the vaccine choice should be intertwined with choosing to be a part of a society. IMO
In theory, I agree.
Unfortunately that's not even close to practical for a variety of reasons, the least of which is that it would be next to impossible to enforce.
now and then just to inform these morons that the diseases ARE dangerous and their kids need to be vaccinated unless they have some kind of health issue that would make the vaccine bad for them.
It's bad enough we have poor kids and illegal immigrants who aren't vaccinated. But these affluent families really piss me off:
I talked to a public health official and asked him what's the best way to anticipate where there might be higher than normal rates of vaccine noncompliance, and he said take a map and put a pin wherever there's a Whole Foods. I sort of laughed, and he said, "No, really, I'm not joking." It's those communities with the Prius driving, composting, organic food-eating people.
In some schools, up to 60 to 70 percent of parents have filed these PBEs, indicating a vaccination rate as low as that of Chad or South Sudan. Unlike in Santa Monica, however, parents in South Sudan have trouble getting their children vaccinated because of an ongoing civil war.
And lo, it is these very same L.A. neighborhoods that are experiencing a resurgence of diseases like whooping cough, otherwise known as pertussis. Measles cases have also hit a high in California this year.
RE: I think I'm pretty well versed on infectious diseaes Â
And, in particular, immune responses to them. I absolutely know the benefits of vaccination.
And yet, I'm opposed to mandatory vaccination. I think it should be the parents choice.
However, choices have consequences. I think unvaccinated children should not be allowed to schools, amusement parks, public places, etc. also, other parents and children and regular adults who might come into contact with unvaccinated people should be informed.
It's your choice, but the vaccine choice should be intertwined with choosing to be a part of a society. IMO
I agree with them not being allowed in school however the rest mentioned would simply not be practical to be able to enforce.
RE: So is it fair to fine a parent for not vaccinating? Â
Sounds terrble, but society must bear the costs for an individuals decision. And they are considerable.
Maybe they can't be fined, but if I were their insurer, I would make their premiums very uncomfortable. Like driving, if you are higher risk, you pay more.
I agree. It's not just the children of the anti-vaccine parents that are harmed by their parents ignorant position but the rest of society as well. It's in everyone's interst to raise the vaccination rates as high as possible.
1) Heightened focus on the incredibly incompetent and payed-for study that created the autism mythology, and more scripts designed to help people understand that it was nothing more than a hoax.
2) Better focus on getting people to understand how heard immunity works, and their individual complicity if they help undermine herd immunity.
3) Pulling politicians out of the woodwork who pander to the anti-vaxxer population. Two politicians put their feet deep into their mouths on the subject yesterday, and are going to have to dial back really hard if they want to remain in the running for higher office. I don't care which party they are part of. Pandering is pandering. The odd thing is that the anti-Vaxxers, themselves, do not fall easily into one political cohort or another, unless you define "conspiracy theorists" as a political cohort.
Btw, there is an anti-vaxxer cohort in New York City, in about 24 private schools. The Rudolph Steiner school is kinda like ground zero. Public schools make parent vaccinate. Private schools have vast philosophical as well as religious exemptions.
[quote]NYC public schools require vaccinations for all students and grant religious and medical exceptions rarely. Only 0.19 percent of public school students received the religious exemption this year, while 0.01 percent were granted a medical exemption.
But private schools may accept nearly any medical and religious exception they deem worthy, and more than 90 private schools in the city report vaccination rates for their children below the recommended 95 percent last year. For 24 of those schools, the rates dipped below 80 percent.
At the Rudolf Steiner School on East 79th Street, which is part of a global system of schools founded by the decidedly anti-vaccination philosopher of the same name, only 76 percent of students have been fully vaccinated.
At the Rudolf Steiner School, 24 percent of kids aren’t vaccinated.
School officials are quick to point out that Rudolf Steiner is in compliance with state reporting laws. But that’s only because it’s provided doctor’s notes for those 24 percent of unvaccinated students, such as saying that an allergy to eggs prevents them from being given shots.[quote]
One of the ironies, of course, is that it's relatively rich, well-educated NYC family population that is putting everyone else at risk. On the other hand, all it will take is for herd immunity to fail at a single private school for a full-blown shooting war to start, with injections as the weapons of choice.
If you force certain clusters to vaccinate without convincing them, some clusters of anti-vaxxer parents will simply home school, and then dump their un-vaccinated kids into the public in non-school situations.
Yes, there are some of those. There is also a substantial number of DOs who chose this path because they wanted to get training in a more complete approach to medicine, including some that are shunned in traditional medical schools such as Eastern medicine approaches.
I will restate it again, phrased slightly differently: My particular DO is a teaching professor at Cornell Weill who is universally admired by hundreds of mainstream orthopedists, neurologists, heart doctors, skin doctors, hand surgeons, pediatricians, ENT specialists/allergists, eye doctors, etc. My family--and some friends--have gotten referrals to near-world-class MDs and surgeons in all of these specialties, including some of the very best at Special Surgery. They all hold him in at least a bit of awe for how much he knows. How many generalist MDs do you know with that level of reputation?
One of the wonderful things about starting with a really smart DO--and there are some who aren't, to be sure--is that it tends to reduce the risk of a surgical solution being considered early in the process. My guy guards against that.
In the Very New Testament, in the Book of Injections. It is truly miraculous that they foretold infectious diseases and responses. Here is a link to some key research. Link - ( New Window )
In the Very New Testament, in the Book of Injections. It is truly miraculous that they foretold infectious diseases and responses. Here is a link to some key research. Link - ( New Window )
Republicans want to return government to the 18th century Â
If there are any other fans of AE Houseman here, you will find the story told in verse, but there is a legend about Mithridates, who lived about a hundred years before Christ was born. As the story goes, he was so fearful of being poisoned by would-be usurpers that he periodically ingested small amounts of various poisons and toxins, thereby building up an immunity to them.
Quote:
There was a king reigned in the East:
There, when kings will sit to feast,
They get their fill before they think
With poisoned meat and poisoned drink.
He gathered all that springs to birth
From the many-venomed earth;
First a little, thence to more,
He sampled all her killing store;
And easy, smiling, seasoned sound,
Sate the king when healths went round.
They put arsenic in his meat
And stared aghast to watch him eat;
They poured strychnine in his cup
And shook to see him drink it up:
They shook, they stared as white's their shirt:
Them it was their poison hurt.
-I tell the tale that I heard told.
Mithridates, he died old.
RE: Republicans want to return government to the 18th century Â
So it's only appropriate that they bring back smallpox. If it was good enough for the founding fathers, it's good enough for us.
um, go fuck yourself? Unless you can point to a Republican quote advocating the return of smallpox.
It's simply the logical extension of their argument. You should be able to do whatever you want with government interfering and telling you want to do.
The only thing worse than libertarians who take freedom too far is people on the other side of the spectrum who think every Republican or Conservative is against everything.
But continuing with your dumbass game, the 18th century brought about the Constitution and Bill of Rights as well as our independence from monarchy and tyranny. Although the logical extension for you would be a rejection of the latter, I am astounded that you would likewise dismiss the former.
Sounds terrble, but society must bear the costs for an individuals decision. And they are considerable.
Maybe they can't be fined, but if I were their insurer, I would make their premiums very uncomfortable. Like driving, if you are higher risk, you pay more.
If you are a small government person, like I am, I can see the fine being political kryptonite. I am pro-vax but believe that a parent has a right to choose whether to vaccinate their children, provided however, that the Government restricts their ability to do certain things that would potentially expose that child to other people who are not vaccinated for medical reasons or are too young to be vaccinated. If someone wants to go off the grid and stay non-vaccinated, see no reason why the Government should require them to do so.
However, I do believe that if a parent chooses not to vaccinate their child (not including categories where documented medical reasons prevent vaccination) and allows their child to cause another child to be exposed to an otherwise preventable illness, then the exposed child should have a cause of action for common law negligence (or a statutory claim, if a law is passed) against the parent of the non-vaccinated child. Naturally, it might be difficult to prove, but certainly not impossible and (in the case where the exposed child suffers serious injury) could be viable.
After a few of those lawsuits, we will see whether the convictions of people who rely on medical advice from a Singled Out playmate withstand having to put their money where their mouthes are.
Ignorance and political agenda aside, you are talking about libertarians, not Republicans. Plus a small handful of panderers.
Republicans and libertarians are becoming more and more indistinguishable.
Only to a weak-minded idealogue such as yourself.
And if you think some of these anti-vaxxers don't pull the same lever as you do, pay closer attention.
Although, I'm sure this a-hole can only view the world through the prism of stereotype, here are the demographics described in one of the earlier linked articles. Sounds like it would fit into his nice, tight compartmentalized tinker toy box, doesn't it?
Quote:
The anti-vaccine movement can largely be traced to a 1998 report in a medical journal that suggested a link between vaccines and autism but was later proved fraudulent and retracted. Today, the waves of parents who shun vaccines include some who still believe in the link and some, like the Amish, who have religious objections to vaccines. Then there is a particular subculture of largely wealthy and well-educated families, many living in palmy enclaves around Los Angeles and San Francisco, who are trying to carve out “all-natural” lives for their children.
Ear infections occur in about one out of every 10 children with measles and can result in permanent hearing loss.
As many as one out of every 20 children with measles gets pneumonia, the most common cause of death from measles in young children.
About one child out of every 1,000 who get measles will develop encephalitis (swelling of the brain) that can lead to convulsions and can leave the child deaf or mentally retarded.
For every 1,000 children who get measles, one or two will die from it.
Subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE) is a very rare, but fatal disease of the central nervous system that results from a measles virus infection acquired earlier in life. SSPE generally develops 7 to 10 years after a person has measles, even though the person seems to have fully recovered from the illness.
Let me just point this out. From a public choice Â
perspective, mandatory taxes and/or fines can yield significantly more government intrusion than a mandatory act.
The "collector of record" for the vaccine is a step removed from a governmental authority; the doctor. The "collector of record" for the tax/fine is a governmental authority itself.
Oftentimes, this leads to more long-term government intrusion than a mandated outcome.
I am autistic and it never ceases to amaze me how scared anti-vaxxers are of autism. How they have no idea how completely ridiculous and offensive they are being I will never understand. They rather have dead children than have children like me and that just makes me sad, especially since that fear has absolutely no basis and puts so many lives at risk. I think about my mom and dad saying and doing the things they do and I feel very defeated and worthless. I can’t imagine how the autistic children of anti-vaxxers feel!
But, fine. If they want me to be a monster, I’ll be a monster.
Then again, there's a very large proportion of traditional MDs who believe that Osteopathy and eastern medicine have absolutely no value, so there are nut jobs and extremists on both sides.
Then again, there's a very large proportion of traditional MDs who believe that Osteopathy and eastern medicine have absolutely no value, so there are nut jobs and extremists on both sides.
That's not been my experience. I only know a couple of DOs (although I've talked with many), and I haven't seen any indication that they practice any differently than MDs. My PCP is a DO who is part of a practice that consists mostly of MDs. And if I'm not mistaken, he runs the residency program at the local hospital that consists of MDs. And in almost 30 years he has never suggested anything close to a "manipulation", even when I had severe back problems, he sent me for imaging studies and then referred me to a surgeon ... same as an MD would have done.
Millennials soft on mandatory vaccination - ( New Window )
It is a good thing to have a healthy amount of skepticism about any powerful institution, but the outright paranoia and anger that has been engendered toward both government as a whole and science/intellectuals seems to drive otherwise reasonable people to support unreasonable positions.
There is no rational argument against immunization. All there is to argue against it is emotive based anecdotal evidence. Yet, because "they" tell you to do something, like a defiant child some will refuse.
Wait! Isn't that from the Marshawn Lynch thread!
For children with legitimate medical concerns there is absolutely a place for choice. However, this problem is not stemming from that - it's from healthy children going without the shots because their parents have been hoodwinked by anti-science agenda peddling idiots.
Agreed wholeheartedly.
Exactly...thank you.
And as it relates to the CA law allowing these dingleberries to send their kids to school w/o vaccinations, this place is the epicenter of ignorance-fueled political correctness, or maybe politically correctness-fueled ignorance, or both.
We just got an email from our kids schools over the weekend that there are now cases in their schools. Oh what a shock...the disease is alive and well where the stupidity is greatest !
And yet, I'm opposed to mandatory vaccination. I think it should be the parents choice.
However, choices have consequences. I think unvaccinated children should not be allowed to schools, amusement parks, public places, etc. also, other parents and children and regular adults who might come into contact with unvaccinated people should be informed.
It's your choice, but the vaccine choice should be intertwined with choosing to be a part of a society. IMO
And yet, I'm opposed to mandatory vaccination. I think it should be the parents choice.
However, choices have consequences. I think unvaccinated children should not be allowed to schools, amusement parks, public places, etc. also, other parents and children and regular adults who might come into contact with unvaccinated people should be informed.
It's your choice, but the vaccine choice should be intertwined with choosing to be a part of a society. IMO
I'm ok with this...as parents if you choose not to vaccinate your kids, then they shouldn't be allowed to partake in public locations. However, then wouldn't this start a firestorm of "discrimination" suits?
Maybe they can't be fined, but if I were their insurer, I would make their premiums very uncomfortable. Like driving, if you are higher risk, you pay more.
And yet, I'm opposed to mandatory vaccination. I think it should be the parents choice.
However, choices have consequences. I think unvaccinated children should not be allowed to schools, amusement parks, public places, etc. also, other parents and children and regular adults who might come into contact with unvaccinated people should be informed.
It's your choice, but the vaccine choice should be intertwined with choosing to be a part of a society. IMO
In theory, I agree.
Unfortunately that's not even close to practical for a variety of reasons, the least of which is that it would be next to impossible to enforce.
It's bad enough we have poor kids and illegal immigrants who aren't vaccinated. But these affluent families really piss me off:
I talked to a public health official and asked him what's the best way to anticipate where there might be higher than normal rates of vaccine noncompliance, and he said take a map and put a pin wherever there's a Whole Foods. I sort of laughed, and he said, "No, really, I'm not joking." It's those communities with the Prius driving, composting, organic food-eating people.
In some schools, up to 60 to 70 percent of parents have filed these PBEs, indicating a vaccination rate as low as that of Chad or South Sudan. Unlike in Santa Monica, however, parents in South Sudan have trouble getting their children vaccinated because of an ongoing civil war.
And lo, it is these very same L.A. neighborhoods that are experiencing a resurgence of diseases like whooping cough, otherwise known as pertussis. Measles cases have also hit a high in California this year.
And yet, I'm opposed to mandatory vaccination. I think it should be the parents choice.
However, choices have consequences. I think unvaccinated children should not be allowed to schools, amusement parks, public places, etc. also, other parents and children and regular adults who might come into contact with unvaccinated people should be informed.
It's your choice, but the vaccine choice should be intertwined with choosing to be a part of a society. IMO
Maybe they can't be fined, but if I were their insurer, I would make their premiums very uncomfortable. Like driving, if you are higher risk, you pay more.
I agree. It's not just the children of the anti-vaccine parents that are harmed by their parents ignorant position but the rest of society as well. It's in everyone's interst to raise the vaccination rates as high as possible.
2) Better focus on getting people to understand how heard immunity works, and their individual complicity if they help undermine herd immunity.
3) Pulling politicians out of the woodwork who pander to the anti-vaxxer population. Two politicians put their feet deep into their mouths on the subject yesterday, and are going to have to dial back really hard if they want to remain in the running for higher office. I don't care which party they are part of. Pandering is pandering. The odd thing is that the anti-Vaxxers, themselves, do not fall easily into one political cohort or another, unless you define "conspiracy theorists" as a political cohort.
Btw, there is an anti-vaxxer cohort in New York City, in about 24 private schools. The Rudolph Steiner school is kinda like ground zero. Public schools make parent vaccinate. Private schools have vast philosophical as well as religious exemptions.
[quote]NYC public schools require vaccinations for all students and grant religious and medical exceptions rarely. Only 0.19 percent of public school students received the religious exemption this year, while 0.01 percent were granted a medical exemption.
But private schools may accept nearly any medical and religious exception they deem worthy, and more than 90 private schools in the city report vaccination rates for their children below the recommended 95 percent last year. For 24 of those schools, the rates dipped below 80 percent.
At the Rudolf Steiner School on East 79th Street, which is part of a global system of schools founded by the decidedly anti-vaccination philosopher of the same name, only 76 percent of students have been fully vaccinated.
At the Rudolf Steiner School, 24 percent of kids aren’t vaccinated.
School officials are quick to point out that Rudolf Steiner is in compliance with state reporting laws. But that’s only because it’s provided doctor’s notes for those 24 percent of unvaccinated students, such as saying that an allergy to eggs prevents them from being given shots.[quote]
One of the ironies, of course, is that it's relatively rich, well-educated NYC family population that is putting everyone else at risk. On the other hand, all it will take is for herd immunity to fail at a single private school for a full-blown shooting war to start, with injections as the weapons of choice.
Link - ( New Window )
I will restate it again, phrased slightly differently: My particular DO is a teaching professor at Cornell Weill who is universally admired by hundreds of mainstream orthopedists, neurologists, heart doctors, skin doctors, hand surgeons, pediatricians, ENT specialists/allergists, eye doctors, etc. My family--and some friends--have gotten referrals to near-world-class MDs and surgeons in all of these specialties, including some of the very best at Special Surgery. They all hold him in at least a bit of awe for how much he knows. How many generalist MDs do you know with that level of reputation?
One of the wonderful things about starting with a really smart DO--and there are some who aren't, to be sure--is that it tends to reduce the risk of a surgical solution being considered early in the process. My guy guards against that.
Then she follows it up with, "Vaccines are just about profits."
Go to other countries where they still have polio, measles, mumps, etc. Then think about how many cases of those are in the US.
Link - ( New Window )
Link - ( New Window )
Link - ( New Window )
There, when kings will sit to feast,
They get their fill before they think
With poisoned meat and poisoned drink.
He gathered all that springs to birth
From the many-venomed earth;
First a little, thence to more,
He sampled all her killing store;
And easy, smiling, seasoned sound,
Sate the king when healths went round.
They put arsenic in his meat
And stared aghast to watch him eat;
They poured strychnine in his cup
And shook to see him drink it up:
They shook, they stared as white's their shirt:
Them it was their poison hurt.
-I tell the tale that I heard told.
Mithridates, he died old.
um, go fuck yourself? Unless you can point to a Republican quote advocating the return of smallpox.
Quote:
So it's only appropriate that they bring back smallpox. If it was good enough for the founding fathers, it's good enough for us.
um, go fuck yourself? Unless you can point to a Republican quote advocating the return of smallpox.
It's simply the logical extension of their argument. You should be able to do whatever you want with government interfering and telling you want to do.
The only thing worse than libertarians who take freedom too far is people on the other side of the spectrum who think every Republican or Conservative is against everything.
I repeat...go fuck yourself.
But continuing with your dumbass game, the 18th century brought about the Constitution and Bill of Rights as well as our independence from monarchy and tyranny. Although the logical extension for you would be a rejection of the latter, I am astounded that you would likewise dismiss the former.
Republicans and libertarians are becoming more and more indistinguishable.
Quote:
Ignorance and political agenda aside, you are talking about libertarians, not Republicans. Plus a small handful of panderers.
Republicans and libertarians are becoming more and more indistinguishable.
Only to a weak-minded idealogue such as yourself.
And if you think some of these anti-vaxxers don't pull the same lever as you do, pay closer attention.
Quote:
Ignorance and political agenda aside, you are talking about libertarians, not Republicans. Plus a small handful of panderers.
Republicans and libertarians are becoming more and more indistinguishable.
Republicans are libertarians when it comes to this kind of stuff but not when it comes to the war on terror/drugs, etc.
Maybe they can't be fined, but if I were their insurer, I would make their premiums very uncomfortable. Like driving, if you are higher risk, you pay more.
If you are a small government person, like I am, I can see the fine being political kryptonite. I am pro-vax but believe that a parent has a right to choose whether to vaccinate their children, provided however, that the Government restricts their ability to do certain things that would potentially expose that child to other people who are not vaccinated for medical reasons or are too young to be vaccinated. If someone wants to go off the grid and stay non-vaccinated, see no reason why the Government should require them to do so.
However, I do believe that if a parent chooses not to vaccinate their child (not including categories where documented medical reasons prevent vaccination) and allows their child to cause another child to be exposed to an otherwise preventable illness, then the exposed child should have a cause of action for common law negligence (or a statutory claim, if a law is passed) against the parent of the non-vaccinated child. Naturally, it might be difficult to prove, but certainly not impossible and (in the case where the exposed child suffers serious injury) could be viable.
After a few of those lawsuits, we will see whether the convictions of people who rely on medical advice from a Singled Out playmate withstand having to put their money where their mouthes are.
Quote:
In comment 12122171 manh george said:
Quote:
Ignorance and political agenda aside, you are talking about libertarians, not Republicans. Plus a small handful of panderers.
Republicans and libertarians are becoming more and more indistinguishable.
Only to a weak-minded idealogue such as yourself.
And if you think some of these anti-vaxxers don't pull the same lever as you do, pay closer attention.
Although, I'm sure this a-hole can only view the world through the prism of stereotype, here are the demographics described in one of the earlier linked articles. Sounds like it would fit into his nice, tight compartmentalized tinker toy box, doesn't it?
As many as one out of every 20 children with measles gets pneumonia, the most common cause of death from measles in young children.
About one child out of every 1,000 who get measles will develop encephalitis (swelling of the brain) that can lead to convulsions and can leave the child deaf or mentally retarded.
For every 1,000 children who get measles, one or two will die from it.
Subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE) is a very rare, but fatal disease of the central nervous system that results from a measles virus infection acquired earlier in life. SSPE generally develops 7 to 10 years after a person has measles, even though the person seems to have fully recovered from the illness.
The "collector of record" for the vaccine is a step removed from a governmental authority; the doctor. The "collector of record" for the tax/fine is a governmental authority itself.
Oftentimes, this leads to more long-term government intrusion than a mandated outcome.
But, fine. If they want me to be a monster, I’ll be a monster.
Rawr, anti-vaxxers. Rawr.
Faceboook - This Week in Pseudoscience - ( New Window )