ESPN's Graziano: Looking at potential Giants cap cuts

He played hurt and he's a good punter. They won't ask him to take a pay cut.

with all of those cuts.

and there should be others on their way out.

but I'll be surprised if they cut Weatherford (if he doesn't want to restructure) to save a few million dollars. I mean we gave over $2 million to the overrated Steve Brown last season!

are no brainers in my opinion.

And a no brainer to restructure Weatheford and Beason.

Jenkis is a question mark.

he's just not able to do what we need him to, especially at that cost.

That SW could even punt this year with his high ankle sprain is remarkable

.

That is true, but his 2013 season was disappointing and he has a decent cap allocation for a punter. That said, if they cut him, they need a good punter if they want to contend, so how will they not spend more than what he's owed?

Not sure they can get a viable replacement with his $2.25M in cap savings which makes it pointless. Though if they're going to use those savings with the savings from Kiwi/Beason to upgrade the DT position, then I could see it.

I'm in the minority here, but I'd try and get Walton to take a paycut first. I don't want him starting, but if they could slash his base pay by $1.5M (basically vet min + roster bonus) it would still save $1.5M against the cap and they need the OL depth (don't want more Charlie Browns).

Yes, if you look at him in isolation, the move would get them $1.325M in savings. But half of that is going to be needed for his replacement (assuming the min basically). So you're going from Weatherford to a punter making the minimum for $600k in savings? Why?

And resign Osi with that money

Is that Kyle Loomis is in this years draft. The best college punter for 2 years running.

Very interesting story, became the Oregon State starting punter as a Freshman and did very well, but decided he wanted to join the Army.

Served 2.5 years before an ankle injury forced him out of the service.

An Oregon State coach had moved to Portland State, and asked him to join their team after his Army honorable discharge.

He is an older player than other draftable players, but not as big of a deal as a punter.

He is the type of player that goes on Day 3, and becomes some teams quality punter for 10 years.

As we get closer to the draft, you will hear a lot more about Kyle Loomis who is no doubt a Coughlin type of player

Good punters aren't all that easy to come by, and when you get one the expectation is to pay him about $3 mil per. Cullen Jenkins will probably stick around as well. He's a solid player and gives the team good value for a veteran for the cost it takes to keep him.

He's done and Bromley will replace him. The 2.25m can be used elsewhere maybe to sign a rotational DT that can play.

is the 9th highest paid punter (2015 cap hit), I think he's probably worth it, but I also think he's probably replaceable.

I have no issue with whatever the Giants decide here.

I'd keep the others.

The other guys make sense and will bring us another 12+ million and maybe another 4-5 more with others not on the list. Mix in an Eli extension and hopefully a JPP long term deal structured with a cap friendly 1st year, and this team may have quite a bit of monopoly dough to shell out this off-season.

and an OK punter. Tough decision.

even if he has an off year every now and then as most, if not all punters(and FG Kickers) do..

We're not talking about money that really matters, cap-wise, imo..If it does, we are in real trouble..

Quinn staying = Weatherford leaving. He was not a good punter last year. Said this before: if Beason has a role with this team in '15, the Giants will have deteriorated into a degenerate organization. Doesn't matter if he plays for the absolute minimum allowed by the CBA. Jenkins & Kiwanuka are also good to go, so to speak. We have Spagnoulo now . He can do wonders with street free agents & blue-light veteran acquisitions.

except SW, and even then have his re-do be very cap friendly this year.

In comment 12120649 RetroJint said:

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Quinn staying = Weatherford leaving. He was not a good punter last year. Said this before: if Beason has a role with this team in '15, the Giants will have deteriorated into a degenerate organization. Doesn't matter if he plays for the absolute minimum allowed by the CBA. Jenkins & Kiwanuka are also good to go, so to speak. We have Spagnoulo now . He can do wonders with street free agents & blue-light veteran acquisitions.

RJ, he had a high ankle sprain issue most of the year..

next season? If so, would there be as big a need to find cap savings?

can you cite a source that indicates SW and Quinn, "hate each other?" We're not talking about an argument/disagreement which is common

In comment 12120649 RetroJint said:

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Quinn staying = Weatherford leaving. He was not a good punter last year. Said this before: if Beason has a role with this team in '15, the Giants will have deteriorated into a degenerate organization. Doesn't matter if he plays for the absolute minimum allowed by the CBA. Jenkins & Kiwanuka are also good to go, so to speak. We have Spagnoulo now . He can do wonders with street free agents & blue-light veteran acquisitions.

Though that ship has likely sailed, I am holding out hope we still somehow replace Quinn. Perhaps someone on the Pats or Hawks. I just can't believe the Giants are turning a blind eye with the rankings of our specials 5 of the last 6.

SW, cut the rest, although a marginal case can be made for Jenkins, but only because we are thin at the position. I'd still probably waive goodbye.

not going into a season where better is expected, at least a playoff berth...the last time we lost a veteran punter (Feagles) we got Matt Dodge

Walton may survive as a backup. Weatherford is an interesting case. IF they were truly a SB contender he would be in better shape, you would keep the vet. MAybe they to get younger and cheaper there since they are still probably a year maybe 2 away.

Beason is just too unreliable injury wise to commit anything but the vet minimum.

but maybe it was just the injuries. I'd cut him if I knew we could sign another vet DT. I wouldn't even think twice.

In comment 12120656 BobOnLI said:

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next season? If so, would there be as big a need to find cap savings?

Still advantageous to cut dead weight (i.e. Kiwi). And higher cap also means the salaries will just rise, so they extra money is still needed to bring guys in. Plus any unused cap money can carry over to next season.

I know totally different topics, and the statement above doesnt make any sense, but I still cant believe that with TC's job on the line he kept Quinn.

for placekicks, which also should be considered.

you can't just look at cap "savings" when deciding whether or not to cut someone. Weatherford will "save" $1.325M if cut, but you still need a punter. So you need to see if you can then sign a comparable (or preferably better) replacement using that money. In Weatherford's case, you're likely looking at a rookie or vet punter that is making closer to the minimum (unless you want to spend more on punter than you would be keeping SW). A vet near the minimum is almost a lock to be a downgrade from SW.

And rookies are always a risk.

In comment 12120658 Big Blue '56 said:

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can you cite a source that indicates SW and Quinn, "hate each other?" We're not talking about an argument/disagreement which is common

Yep. If sideline altercations were an indicator, Simms and Parcells would be mortal enemies.

flat sucks at this point. If he comes back I'll be bummed.

In comment 12120746 DanMetroMan said:

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flat sucks at this point. If he comes back I'll be bummed.

Yea, I wouldn't even take Kiwi at the vet min. Most of the other guys I'd consider keeping if they took paycuts (not restructures, but paycuts).

None of them are good enough to block younger and hungrier players. If any of them are on the roster next year Coughlin will start them until they get injured again. Reese needs to remove that option.

the coaches are essentially telling us no younger players have earned their way past the veterans. The roster has a significant talent and depth issue in a number of areas.

think 2.5 - 3M is a lot of cap space.

Victor Cruz signed his extension before the 2013 season and his 2013 cap hit was 2.5M.

Granted subsequent years were much more, but the point is clearing 2.5 - 3M is enough to add a legit young starter and backload a contract when the cap opens up even more.

-Kiwi needs to go. He is not an NFL player at this point.
-I have no problems keeping Jenkins at his price. He's a decent utility guy as he can start at DT, has decent pass rush skills and can serve as a defensive end in some packages.
- Walton can be the backup at the vet minimum.
- Beason needs to take a paycut. It was a bad contract the day it was signed.
- Weatherford should also be required to take a paycut. Good guy, played hurt but $3m for him at this point is too much. He's spent his career in this area so he probably stays on.

In comment 12120527 Big Blue '56 said:

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That SW could even punt this year with his high ankle sprain is remarkable

So you disagree there's a chance he'll be cut? That's all Graziano is saying.

.

who didn't suddenly lose it..Embraces the NY pressure..Is a very popular community guy and represents the Giants well..If there's a clearly better punter out there than fine..Anything less than that he stays, imo

Weatherford here for the rest of his career. It is nice to have a punter on the field that makes it, usually, a stress free process. Keep him.

.

I'd figure out a way to keep Weatherford. A good punter is important. It is worth the cap hit to have a guy who knows what he is doing for this position.

Kiwi - Thank you for your service. Enjoy retirement.

Beason - We don't have any LB's. He's a solid one if healthy. His cap hit is too big though. He needs to re-structure or go.

Walton - I'd keep him one more year. He's not great, but we need guys who can play for depth.

Let him go and sign Shelton with the 1st pick. Big time upgrade.

has struggled 3 years in a row now. it isnt like he just had a bad season. he has also been shaky w/his holds + clearly has gotten on quinn's nerves

Can someone give us an estimate of just how much under the cap we'd be if we make these moves and extend Eli (obviously this would be a guess for cap savings as well)

$30M.

or did he restructure, pushing his cap hit into the future? Hero when he 'saves' (one of the most misunderstood words on BBI) us money. Goat when the savings come due. the same thing will happen with Eli. We're going to 'save' money when we extend him, and hate his cap figure in a year or two when the savings that were merely pushed to the future come due.

and on this thread we see the usual 'isn't the cap going up?' mantra, with the 'what's the big deal if we spend it on SW?', which isn't bad, except the same thing will be said for Eli, and for JPP, and for (fill in the multiple players here). This isn't politics, where you can use fuzzy math. a dollar only gets counted once. yes, the cap will be going up. choose who you want to spend it on. at the end of the day, you need a balanced budget. that means if you've earmarked the rising cap to JPP, you can't also earmark it for Eli, or for SW, or for....

SW will get a job if we cut him. No if's, ands, or buts. he's still a good punter. he was injured last year. he may not be as good as he once was, but he's still good enough to get a job. I don't know as the same can be said about Kiwi.

Not shooting the messenger, but that article was just another rehash of everything we've discussed multiple times so far.

on holds?

In comment 12121013 Coach Mason said:

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Can someone give us an estimate of just how much under the cap we'd be if we make these moves and extend Eli (obviously this would be a guess for cap savings as well)

Highly depends on Eli's extension, but I cut Jenkins, Walton, Kiwi, and Beason and gave Eli an extension that lowered his 2015 cap # to $12.5M and that results in estimated cap room of $34M (see link)

You can play around with other scenarios using OTC's calculator.
Cap Room - ( New Window )

save the changes I made, but you can try it yourself.

In comment 12120798 pjcas18 said:

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think 2.5 - 3M is a lot of cap space. Victor Cruz signed his extension before the 2013 season and his 2013 cap hit was 2.5M. Granted subsequent years were much more, but the point is clearing 2.5 - 3M is enough to add a legit young starter and backload a contract when the cap opens up even more.

this should have said "ISN'T" a lot of cap space.

In other words I think that is enough money to make a difference and makes it worth considering forcing a pay cut or releasing someone who hasn't proven worth their contract and is cuttable.

That would be tremendous is we have 34-35 mill to play with. That could go a long way in fortifying this roster.

That would be tremendous is we have 34-35 mill to play with. That could go a long way in fortifying this roster.

the overwhelming majority of players have a cap hit under 2.5 mil. people are silly when they talk about a million here, a million there as though it's no big deal.
anyone who throws around 2-3 mil as being no big deal isn't worth discussing the cap with.

In comment 12121117 Coach Mason said:

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That would be tremendous is we have 34-35 mill to play with. That could go a long way in fortifying this roster.

It's not nearly that much though. JPPs deal (if it gets done) is likely to eat up ~$10M, the rookie pool is another ~$6.5M, and they probably want to enter the season with ~$5M in reserve for when injuries pop up. So they'll have $10-15M to play with in FA, which would be one Suh like signing or a couple mid-level (e.g. Schwartz, DRC) signings.

but you are correct, from that figure you're then subtracting JPP, rookie pool, etc.

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While I can see that $3 million per season is pretty steep for a punter, would the Giants really think about parting ways with Weatherford if he doesn't restructure?

Well if there's a bad special teams decision to be made, the Giants certainly are the type who'd make it.

Players in their mid 30s, unless stars, are replaceable.

.

2015

isn't a big deal.
it's year two, three, and four
that are the big deals.

Got It. Perhaps not as much flexibility as I originally thought but still some decent space. Hopefully we'll find a way to sign a few good players to shore up a couple key areas. JPP and his contract structure/initial cap hit will be a big wildcard here.

In comment 12120740 idol-mind said:

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In comment 12120658 Big Blue '56 said: Quote: can you cite a source that indicates SW and Quinn, "hate each other?" We're not talking about an argument/disagreement which is common Yep. If sideline altercations were an indicator, Simms and Parcells would be mortal enemies.

They aren't close.

Beason's 7M+ cap hit is too much. I'd have liked to give him another chance. If he wants a new much lower contract, the Giants should consider.

Kiwi: Good soldier but it's time to move on. Get new young guys in there and try them out, IMO. Give Wynn more PT.

I'd keep Jenkins if he's in good shape but force Walton to the bench with a lower contract if he wants to stay. Neither of these guys will be able to do better elsewhere.

Weatherford: pay him. If he will take less, fine.

Resign Matt Dodge! The guy's the JPP of punters!

try to keep weatherford, tho..dont get the love for Jenkins

Walton, Kiwi, Jenkins, and should be treated and paid like veteran minimum back-ups if they are kept at all. Beason could start and play well if healthy, but cannot be counted on to do so. 3 million is too much for ANY punter. None of these players is likely to get more than the vet min from another team.

jenkins is a very good player.
i hate to see kiwi go.

In comment 12121122 giants#1 said:

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In comment 12121117 Coach Mason said: Quote: That would be tremendous is we have 34-35 mill to play with. That could go a long way in fortifying this roster. It's not nearly that much though. JPPs deal (if it gets done) is likely to eat up ~$10M, the rookie pool is another ~$6.5M, and they probably want to enter the season with ~$5M in reserve for when injuries pop up. So they'll have $10-15M to play with in FA, which would be one Suh like signing or a couple mid-level (e.g. Schwartz, DRC) signings.

Yeah? You have everyone's cap hit all figured out for potential re-signs? I'll wait and see instead of seeing some here try to work the numbers.

signed a 45+M contract with 16M guaranteed and his year 1 cap hit was 2.5M.

Why do you think JPP HAS to be over 10M?

Even if you double it and say JPP signed a 90M deal with 32M guaranteed (which isn't happening) he could have a year 1 of around 5M.

and hear more about restructures.

If Eli re-structures; JPP signs a long term deal; and we make the right UFA pick-ups and the right draft choices we'll be good. You can't have everything but I don't think we'll see Weatherford, Beason, Cruz cut.

Kiwanuka is gone for sure. He could re-sign for near the league minimum as he is the only defender that knows Spags and may have a 4th DE year left in him. He is decent on special teams. Just saying.....

In comment 12120987 Rong5611 said:

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Walton - I'd keep him one more year. He's not great, but we need guys who can play for depth.

Not great? He's terrible!

In comment 12122864 Disgruntled NYGfan said:

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In comment 12120987 Rong5611 said: Quote: Walton - I'd keep him one more year. He's not great, but we need guys who can play for depth. Not great? He's terrible!

As a back-up on/near vet minumum? OK, otherwise....