about Corey Webster heading into 2007. At that point he was known only for getting repeatedly beat by the Bears in a humiliating Monday night game. He was benched early in the season, got a chance to play only because of injury and the rest is history.
I realize it's his forth year not his third as it was for Webster in 2007. But he wasn't a top 50 pick like Webster and he's had some injury issues. I never give up on young players based on poor play early on. Maybe getting away from Fewell's zone systems will be just what he needs.
That we can see how he does in Spags's system in training camp but if he doesn't look better than others with more upside I hope the Giants are willing to part ways even if he was a 3rd Round pick
let him go. He's had plenty of chances. We were ravaged by injuries at the CB position this year. It isn't the system. It's him. But it's not indefensible to bring him to camp, especially with a new DC.
let him go. He's had plenty of chances. We were ravaged by injuries at the CB position this year. It isn't the system. It's him. But it's not indefensible to bring him to camp, especially with a new DC.
Webster is as good an example of a system change working wonders. Yes, see how he responds in camp and the pre-season, but to definitively say "it's not the system, it's him" is just plain ignorant.
is that maybe he was not coached well enough. Remember when Webster first came here? He sucked and the moment the D coordinator was replaced, things changed for him.
let him go. He's had plenty of chances. We were ravaged by injuries at the CB position this year. It isn't the system. It's him. But it's not indefensible to bring him to camp, especially with a new DC.
Webster is as good an example of a system change working wonders. Yes, see how he responds in camp and the pre-season, but to definitively say "it's not the system, it's him" is just plain ignorant.
Hosley would have been cut after camp but for his suspension last year. And he probably would have been cut after it was over, but Thurmond was already on IR at that point. He was also deactivated the last few games of the year, even though we were shorthanded at CB. He was passed on the depth chart by guys we pulled off the street. Hosley has been given every chance to perform the last few years and has failed every time.
As I said, I would just let him go, but would also leave the final decision to Spags about whether to bring him to camp. But right now, it isn't ignorant to say it's him.
Once the Giants are done stacking these building blocks
Webster was 6 feet, 200 pounds. Holsey is listed generously at 5'10" and only 178 pounds. And he doesn't have the speed or smarts to compensate for his lack of size.
...is that there's plenty of room for improvement. Randle can certainly get better, and anything the Giants get this year from Hosley, Robinson and Mosley is basically a bonus. Wilson, unfortunately, was a big write-off.
3 players on defense Spags has to find out about .
Has gone from a guy many of us felt could be our 3rd CB for years to come to under the dirt at the bottom of the barrel. This guy at one point was going to be used as a punt returner and game changer it appeared. Today if he gets on the field he is prime target #1 for any QB and WR tandem.
Hosley had 40 tackles in his rookie year in 12 games with 6 starts, since then he has a total 17 tackles and 3 starts in a total of 17 possible games. We really don't know why but for whatever the reason he looks terrible whenever he is on the field and just seems lost completely. I still think a change of venue would be best for him can't think of any reason why this team would feel comfortable with him on the field.
was the vid that came right after -- the Building Blocks of Adrien Robinson. Two "highlight" clips -- his single TD in three years on the team, and run block that was a clip and should have been flagged.
It is so hard for a team to give up on any draft choice and for some
reason the Giants continue to try to get something out of Hosley when other 2nd and 3rd round recent draft picks are gone. It does appear that Hosley just doesn't even try when I have tried to focus on him so when I see the three or so clips I say to myself where did those come from. It is like he cannot hide the fact that he just does not want to be on the Giants
Jayron played and thrived in a pressure defense where he was expected to play man coverage allot basically on an island in college. He was also a fantastic return man.
PF was a Tampa 2 coverage guy. Before we kick him to the curb I want to see how he does in an attacking style defense. It's quite possible he turns it around. Not saying it's going to happen, but he comes at such a cheap price, why wouldn't you take the risk?
Being a cover guy and has good burst to ball speed and good hands.
Yet played in a system where he had to react and judge which zone to play or who he was responsible to cover.
Square peg meet round hole.
Fewell will go down as the worst of the coughlin hires because he wasted so much talent. But he's got a ring so there's that.
Some of you are going to have your hearts broken when Spags
let him go. He's had plenty of chances. We were ravaged by injuries at the CB position this year. It isn't the system. It's him. But it's not indefensible to bring him to camp, especially with a new DC.
Webster is as good an example of a system change working wonders. Yes, see how he responds in camp and the pre-season, but to definitively say "it's not the system, it's him" is just plain ignorant.
Hosley would have been cut after camp but for his suspension last year. And he probably would have been cut after it was over, but Thurmond was already on IR at that point. He was also deactivated the last few games of the year, even though we were shorthanded at CB. He was passed on the depth chart by guys we pulled off the street. Hosley has been given every chance to perform the last few years and has failed every time.
As I said, I would just let him go, but would also leave the final decision to Spags about whether to bring him to camp. But right now, it isn't ignorant to say it's him.
We're essentially in agreement. But I disagree that (and maybe ignorant is a bit strong) you can completely dismiss him without seeing him in a defense that may make much better use of his skills.
Webster was 6 feet, 200 pounds. Holsey is listed generously at 5'10" and only 178 pounds. And he doesn't have the speed or smarts to compensate for his lack of size.
He's very fast/quick and had an impressive college career. That may not translate to the NFL for any number of reasons. I can't figure out just what you are basing your comments on; they wouldn't appear to be based on any factual info.
RE: Some of you are going to have your hearts broken when Spags
We, as fans, have to hope the same happens for:
1. TE Robnson - he is the one guy with the physical talent to be "special" if he learns the nuances of the game and works hard to be the best in what is a contract year for him. He has more upside than any of the 2012 picks.
2. OG Mosley - the fact that he couldn't break in last year is disturbing but this is his fourth year and I'm holding out hope he is our top interior backup this year. If he steps up it helps us a lot.
3. CB Hosley - he's done squat but it doesn't hurt to bring him into camp and see how he does in a contract year. He isn't overly expensive, knows the team and the team knows him. You cut him in camp and well that will be that.
I'm holding out hope that Robinson really comes on to give us a solid two TE combo; OG Mosley steps up enough to be the top guy inside; and, Hosley is a solid dime corner and special teamer.
Webster was 6 feet, 200 pounds. Holsey is listed generously at 5'10" and only 178 pounds. And he doesn't have the speed or smarts to compensate for his lack of size.
He's very fast/quick and had an impressive college career. That may not translate to the NFL for any number of reasons. I can't figure out just what you are basing your comments on; they wouldn't appear to be based on any factual info.
Being a cover guy and has good burst to ball speed and good hands.
Yet played in a system where he had to react and judge which zone to play or who he was responsible to cover.
Square peg meet round hole.
Fewell will go down as the worst of the coughlin hires because he wasted so much talent. But he's got a ring so there's that.
The Caughlin coaching staff has many strong points, but their week ness is that they try to fit the player to the system instead of tweeking the system in order to take advantage of the player,s unique set of talents. For wxample, the Giants drafted a certain TE at number one. He was a wonder in his first year, but then they tried to make a blocking TE out of him. His career fell apart.To some extent I saw this happen to Brandon Jacobs also. He was successful as a slasher, but theGiants had him hesitating and looking for holes that were not there and his efficiency dropped.
With respect to Webster, the Giants were able to draft him because he hurt his knee in his senior year and posted unimpressive stats at that time. The same was true for Justin Tuck, who played his senior year injured after having an outstanding junior year with a lot of sacks.
Webster was 6 feet, 200 pounds. Holsey is listed generously at 5'10" and only 178 pounds. And he doesn't have the speed or smarts to compensate for his lack of size.
He's very fast/quick and had an impressive college career. That may not translate to the NFL for any number of reasons. I can't figure out just what you are basing your comments on; they wouldn't appear to be based on any factual info.
I am basing it on his play on field in the NFL.
The discussion here is how he may do in a different system, a la Webster. Keep your head in the game!
He's not 5'10". At most he's 5'9", but more likely 5'8". In addition to lack of size, he tends to lose the play and has to chase after it. But even if another defensive coordinator could improve his ability to read the play, he's simply too short. I never understood the pick unless the Giants were looking for somebody to run back punts and kickoffs and never said out loud that this was the reason for their interest.
The discussion here is how he may do in a different system, a la Webster. Keep your head in the game!
No, that's what you were discussing. This thread is about what Hosley needs to do to get better. Not that he might get better in a new system.
And to make my point a little more clear, while Hosley might have speed and quickness, he does not have enough speed or quickness to make up for his lack or height, size or smarts (on and off the field). So comparing him to Webster doesn't work for me.
The discussion here is how he may do in a different system, a la Webster. Keep your head in the game!
No, that's what you were discussing. This thread is about what Hosley needs to do to get better. Not that he might get better in a new system.
And to make my point a little more clear, while Hosley might have speed and quickness, he does not have enough speed or quickness to make up for his lack or height, size or smarts (on and off the field). So comparing him to Webster doesn't work for me.
I think you'd better re-read the thread, because you missed the main point.
I think they erred. It was planned as an April Fools Day special.
over his first 2-3 seasons? I think he at least broke up a pass or two or three while Hosley has shown zilch. With that said, I trust this regime in that if they still think there's some talent in Hosley that could be extracted in 2015 who am I to question their motives?
The guy that everyone loves to hate around here that I still believe can and will be a useful NFL player is Jernigan. I think he can be decent #3 WR. Last year's injury really annoyed me because he had the perfect opportunity to flash when Cruz went down. Even with Cruz there would have been chanced for JErnigan to make some plays.
Not even sure if Jernigan is under contract heading into 2015 but i'd keep him around and let him compete with Cruz and Parker and Randle. I know he put up good numbers in crappy meaningless games but it was the manner in which Jernigan produced in those games. He was doing a lot on his own. Making guys miss...going up for passes in the end zone, etc... WRs don't typically flash in regular games by accident. You can either play or you can't.
Even if Giants can't sign Thurmond, Hosley will have to beat out Bowman, McBride, Brown, Fenner, Jackson and whoever else they bring in during the off season.
And don't ever compare Hosley to Webster. Hosley flat out blows
Reading comprehension, bub, it's a wonderful thing.
No one has said/is comparing Hosley to Webster except in the area of perceived skills coming out of college and putting those skills to work in the wrong system.
Webster sucked ass in a cover 2-type D. He didn't show anything until Spags came in and installed a man/attacking D. All anyone is saying here is that Hosley MAY be much better in such a D, because that is his skillset.
over his first 2-3 seasons? I think he at least broke up a pass or two or three while Hosley has shown zilch. With that said, I trust this regime in that if they still think there's some talent in Hosley that could be extracted in 2015 who am I to question their motives?
The guy that everyone loves to hate around here that I still believe can and will be a useful NFL player is Jernigan. I think he can be decent #3 WR. Last year's injury really annoyed me because he had the perfect opportunity to flash when Cruz went down. Even with Cruz there would have been chanced for JErnigan to make some plays.
Not even sure if Jernigan is under contract heading into 2015 but i'd keep him around and let him compete with Cruz and Parker and Randle. I know he put up good numbers in crappy meaningless games but it was the manner in which Jernigan produced in those games. He was doing a lot on his own. Making guys miss...going up for passes in the end zone, etc... WRs don't typically flash in regular games by accident. You can either play or you can't.
Hosley showed some promise his first season, with aggressive ball skills that weren't used properly within Fewells D. That doesn't mean he's good or no good. Let's see him in a D that more closely fits his skillset. You know, Webster was widely viewed as a bust before Spags came in.
a few players develop in their 4th year. Now list all the players who were bad in years 1-3 AND year 4.
Meaningless when they've played under the same system, which is the differentiating point here. Next question, Radar?
Is your point really that all previously bad players become good in a new system in year four?
Are you really serious with this response?. Holy non-sequitur!
Just radar doing his thing..
Yeah, I know. But the little putz is such a colossal asshole combined with a know-nothing non-compo. It's such a unique combination. If he ever winds up in prison, he's going to be very, very popular with a few different groups.
I realize it's his forth year not his third as it was for Webster in 2007. But he wasn't a top 50 pick like Webster and he's had some injury issues. I never give up on young players based on poor play early on. Maybe getting away from Fewell's zone systems will be just what he needs.
Webster is as good an example of a system change working wonders. Yes, see how he responds in camp and the pre-season, but to definitively say "it's not the system, it's him" is just plain ignorant.
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let him go. He's had plenty of chances. We were ravaged by injuries at the CB position this year. It isn't the system. It's him. But it's not indefensible to bring him to camp, especially with a new DC.
Webster is as good an example of a system change working wonders. Yes, see how he responds in camp and the pre-season, but to definitively say "it's not the system, it's him" is just plain ignorant.
Hosley would have been cut after camp but for his suspension last year. And he probably would have been cut after it was over, but Thurmond was already on IR at that point. He was also deactivated the last few games of the year, even though we were shorthanded at CB. He was passed on the depth chart by guys we pulled off the street. Hosley has been given every chance to perform the last few years and has failed every time.
As I said, I would just let him go, but would also leave the final decision to Spags about whether to bring him to camp. But right now, it isn't ignorant to say it's him.
Moore
Taylor
Maybe I should make this my next thread.
CB FS and DE huge holes.
Hosley had 40 tackles in his rookie year in 12 games with 6 starts, since then he has a total 17 tackles and 3 starts in a total of 17 possible games. We really don't know why but for whatever the reason he looks terrible whenever he is on the field and just seems lost completely. I still think a change of venue would be best for him can't think of any reason why this team would feel comfortable with him on the field.
PF was a Tampa 2 coverage guy. Before we kick him to the curb I want to see how he does in an attacking style defense. It's quite possible he turns it around. Not saying it's going to happen, but he comes at such a cheap price, why wouldn't you take the risk?
Yet played in a system where he had to react and judge which zone to play or who he was responsible to cover.
Square peg meet round hole.
Fewell will go down as the worst of the coughlin hires because he wasted so much talent. But he's got a ring so there's that.
Fewell was a mediocre DC, but claiming he wasted significant talent here is laughable.
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In comment 12128057 AcidTest said:
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let him go. He's had plenty of chances. We were ravaged by injuries at the CB position this year. It isn't the system. It's him. But it's not indefensible to bring him to camp, especially with a new DC.
Webster is as good an example of a system change working wonders. Yes, see how he responds in camp and the pre-season, but to definitively say "it's not the system, it's him" is just plain ignorant.
Hosley would have been cut after camp but for his suspension last year. And he probably would have been cut after it was over, but Thurmond was already on IR at that point. He was also deactivated the last few games of the year, even though we were shorthanded at CB. He was passed on the depth chart by guys we pulled off the street. Hosley has been given every chance to perform the last few years and has failed every time.
As I said, I would just let him go, but would also leave the final decision to Spags about whether to bring him to camp. But right now, it isn't ignorant to say it's him.
We're essentially in agreement. But I disagree that (and maybe ignorant is a bit strong) you can completely dismiss him without seeing him in a defense that may make much better use of his skills.
He's very fast/quick and had an impressive college career. That may not translate to the NFL for any number of reasons. I can't figure out just what you are basing your comments on; they wouldn't appear to be based on any factual info.
Fewell was a mediocre DC, but claiming he wasted significant talent here is laughable.
I just love it when some "fan" with the AA of a couch potato calls an NFL player, no matter how bad they may be, "garbage."
We, as fans, have to hope the same happens for:
1. TE Robnson - he is the one guy with the physical talent to be "special" if he learns the nuances of the game and works hard to be the best in what is a contract year for him. He has more upside than any of the 2012 picks.
2. OG Mosley - the fact that he couldn't break in last year is disturbing but this is his fourth year and I'm holding out hope he is our top interior backup this year. If he steps up it helps us a lot.
3. CB Hosley - he's done squat but it doesn't hurt to bring him into camp and see how he does in a contract year. He isn't overly expensive, knows the team and the team knows him. You cut him in camp and well that will be that.
I'm holding out hope that Robinson really comes on to give us a solid two TE combo; OG Mosley steps up enough to be the top guy inside; and, Hosley is a solid dime corner and special teamer.
Praying & Hoping for the best!
Meaningless when they've played under the same system, which is the differentiating point here. Next question, Radar?
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Webster was 6 feet, 200 pounds. Holsey is listed generously at 5'10" and only 178 pounds. And he doesn't have the speed or smarts to compensate for his lack of size.
He's very fast/quick and had an impressive college career. That may not translate to the NFL for any number of reasons. I can't figure out just what you are basing your comments on; they wouldn't appear to be based on any factual info.
I am basing it on his play on field in the NFL.
Yet played in a system where he had to react and judge which zone to play or who he was responsible to cover.
Square peg meet round hole.
Fewell will go down as the worst of the coughlin hires because he wasted so much talent. But he's got a ring so there's that.
The Caughlin coaching staff has many strong points, but their week ness is that they try to fit the player to the system instead of tweeking the system in order to take advantage of the player,s unique set of talents. For wxample, the Giants drafted a certain TE at number one. He was a wonder in his first year, but then they tried to make a blocking TE out of him. His career fell apart.To some extent I saw this happen to Brandon Jacobs also. He was successful as a slasher, but theGiants had him hesitating and looking for holes that were not there and his efficiency dropped.
With respect to Webster, the Giants were able to draft him because he hurt his knee in his senior year and posted unimpressive stats at that time. The same was true for Justin Tuck, who played his senior year injured after having an outstanding junior year with a lot of sacks.
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In comment 12128120 sb from NYT Forum said:
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Webster was 6 feet, 200 pounds. Holsey is listed generously at 5'10" and only 178 pounds. And he doesn't have the speed or smarts to compensate for his lack of size.
He's very fast/quick and had an impressive college career. That may not translate to the NFL for any number of reasons. I can't figure out just what you are basing your comments on; they wouldn't appear to be based on any factual info.
I am basing it on his play on field in the NFL.
The discussion here is how he may do in a different system, a la Webster. Keep your head in the game!
Well, that's certainly informative.
No, that's what you were discussing. This thread is about what Hosley needs to do to get better. Not that he might get better in a new system.
And to make my point a little more clear, while Hosley might have speed and quickness, he does not have enough speed or quickness to make up for his lack or height, size or smarts (on and off the field). So comparing him to Webster doesn't work for me.
Quote:
The discussion here is how he may do in a different system, a la Webster. Keep your head in the game!
No, that's what you were discussing. This thread is about what Hosley needs to do to get better. Not that he might get better in a new system.
And to make my point a little more clear, while Hosley might have speed and quickness, he does not have enough speed or quickness to make up for his lack or height, size or smarts (on and off the field). So comparing him to Webster doesn't work for me.
I think you'd better re-read the thread, because you missed the main point.
The guy that everyone loves to hate around here that I still believe can and will be a useful NFL player is Jernigan. I think he can be decent #3 WR. Last year's injury really annoyed me because he had the perfect opportunity to flash when Cruz went down. Even with Cruz there would have been chanced for JErnigan to make some plays.
Not even sure if Jernigan is under contract heading into 2015 but i'd keep him around and let him compete with Cruz and Parker and Randle. I know he put up good numbers in crappy meaningless games but it was the manner in which Jernigan produced in those games. He was doing a lot on his own. Making guys miss...going up for passes in the end zone, etc... WRs don't typically flash in regular games by accident. You can either play or you can't.
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a few players develop in their 4th year. Now list all the players who were bad in years 1-3 AND year 4.
Meaningless when they've played under the same system, which is the differentiating point here. Next question, Radar?
Is your point really that all previously bad players become good in a new system in year four?
Reading comprehension, bub, it's a wonderful thing.
No one has said/is comparing Hosley to Webster except in the area of perceived skills coming out of college and putting those skills to work in the wrong system.
Webster sucked ass in a cover 2-type D. He didn't show anything until Spags came in and installed a man/attacking D. All anyone is saying here is that Hosley MAY be much better in such a D, because that is his skillset.
Get it now?
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In comment 12128244 chris r said:
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a few players develop in their 4th year. Now list all the players who were bad in years 1-3 AND year 4.
Meaningless when they've played under the same system, which is the differentiating point here. Next question, Radar?
Is your point really that all previously bad players become good in a new system in year four?
Are you really serious with this response?. Holy non-sequitur!
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In comment 12128246 BMac said:
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In comment 12128244 chris r said:
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a few players develop in their 4th year. Now list all the players who were bad in years 1-3 AND year 4.
Meaningless when they've played under the same system, which is the differentiating point here. Next question, Radar?
Is your point really that all previously bad players become good in a new system in year four?
Are you really serious with this response?. Holy non-sequitur!
Just radar doing his thing..
The guy that everyone loves to hate around here that I still believe can and will be a useful NFL player is Jernigan. I think he can be decent #3 WR. Last year's injury really annoyed me because he had the perfect opportunity to flash when Cruz went down. Even with Cruz there would have been chanced for JErnigan to make some plays.
Not even sure if Jernigan is under contract heading into 2015 but i'd keep him around and let him compete with Cruz and Parker and Randle. I know he put up good numbers in crappy meaningless games but it was the manner in which Jernigan produced in those games. He was doing a lot on his own. Making guys miss...going up for passes in the end zone, etc... WRs don't typically flash in regular games by accident. You can either play or you can't.
Hosley showed some promise his first season, with aggressive ball skills that weren't used properly within Fewells D. That doesn't mean he's good or no good. Let's see him in a D that more closely fits his skillset. You know, Webster was widely viewed as a bust before Spags came in.
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In comment 12129464 chris r said:
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In comment 12128246 BMac said:
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In comment 12128244 chris r said:
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a few players develop in their 4th year. Now list all the players who were bad in years 1-3 AND year 4.
Meaningless when they've played under the same system, which is the differentiating point here. Next question, Radar?
Is your point really that all previously bad players become good in a new system in year four?
Are you really serious with this response?. Holy non-sequitur!
Just radar doing his thing..
Yeah, I know. But the little putz is such a colossal asshole combined with a know-nothing non-compo. It's such a unique combination. If he ever winds up in prison, he's going to be very, very popular with a few different groups.