Some eye-opening NYG defensive stats

is a big deal...a BIG DEAL. If ever there was an addition by subtraction scenario this is it. Spags doesn't need to be great he just needs to be average and this team will improve dramatically.

it was all injuries. Jon Beason getting hurt was the difference between a good defense and a historically bad defense.

You really didn't need to see stats to know how bad the Giants defense was over the years, but they do confirm what most of us were saying.

of how historically bad Perry Fewell was. When you are fourth in sacks it means you have some personnel to get to the quarterback. The team also had an excellent pair of corners. When you consider that the team still gave up 30+ points every time they played a decent QB you begin understand what a poor job Fewell did at deploying his personnel. People are going to be very surprised at how much better we look on defense with only minor changes to the personnel.

That said we were the team that gave up the most points in the second half of games -- and that confirmed my sense that our defensive game plans either worked or didn't and rarely adjusted though the course of a game. I think Spags means we win at least half of those games where we are leading in the 4th Q and didn't hold this past year. That's got to be good for +2 to 3 wins right there.

I thought the hallmark of Fewell's defense was always that they couldn't get the big stops when they most needed to. How many times would the offense take the lead, or turn over the ball, etc, and then the defense would take the field and get run through or give up a big play? Not sure if there's a stat for sucking at the least good time, but if there were, Fewells D would lead that category.

Our linebackers and safeties were attrocious. Not one guy was we had last season was an average NFL starter. I really think we need a complete overhaul in both units.

...I wonder how many NFL defenses have posted their worst five-year stats in the recent past. In the modern NFL, yards are cheap.

FWIW, here are the yardage totals for Spagnuolo's defenses since 2009:
2009 STL 5,965
2010 STL 5,388
2011 STL 5,734
2012 NOR 7,042
Average: 6,032
The Ravens, with Spagnuolo on the staff, were a little under 5,400 each of the past two years.

Here are Fewell's stats for the same period:
2009 BUF 5,449
2010 NYG 4,990
2011 NYG 6,022
2012 NYG 6,134
2013 NYG 5,316
2014 NYG 6,012
Average: 5,654

when your defense is on the field a lot. Simply more plays and chances to get sacks.

Football isn't all about stats. The worst part of Fewells defense was its constant lack of ability in getting stops at critical points of the game. No idea how to plot that on a scatter chart or write that as a fraction but I know its true. Fewell was a disaster from the time he arrived until he left. The mystery to me is how he managed to hang around as long as he did.

In comment 12128114 Big Blue Blogger said:

Quote:

...I wonder how many NFL defenses have posted their worst five-year stats in the recent past. In the modern NFL, yards are cheap. FWIW, here are the yardage totals for Spagnuolo's defenses since 2009: 2009 STL 5,965 2010 STL 5,388 2011 STL 5,734 2012 NOR 7,042 Average: 6,032 The Ravens, with Spagnuolo on the staff, were a little under 5,400 each of the past two years. Here are Fewell's stats for the same period: 2009 BUF 5,449 2010 NYG 4,990 2011 NYG 6,022 2012 NYG 6,134 2013 NYG 5,316 2014 NYG 6,012 Average: 5,654

the NFL has so bastardized the game in favor of the offense, that this should not be a surprise.

How many times have the Giants given up 400 points in a season? Perry had 2 of them....

I hope they go Shelton #1 then address the middle of their D by selecting Denzel Perryman MLB Miami or Jeff Luc MLB Cincinnati later in the draft...then I hope they can bring Beason back on a paycut or find one above average lb in free agency...

Means much less than points allowed, time of possession by your opponent, and avg yards allowed per rush. I believe Fewell's defenses the past few years were awful in these three categories.

I actually think yards per game is a decent historical measure. I've looked at in the past and if time permits I'll dig into it, but I was surprised how steady yards let game on average was for the league.

Now regarding Fewell, he was is and won't be worried about yards. When your system is looking to create turnovers you give up yards.

As discussed above, his ultimate undoing is inability to get stops when it matters. The times when a stop would do and a turnover wasn't necessary.

last in the league in the amount of yards the give up per carry...and very poor yards per rushing attempt on offense...explains the lousy play since 2012...hope the Giants address heavily both lines in the draft along with LB a position they have neglected for years...

I LOVE Spags for the very reason I couldn't stand Fewell - I want a defense that plays downhill ...

Having said that, it is just ridiculous to think the problem with the Giants defense was Fewell and that all will be solved by Spags. Great players play great regardless of the scheme. The Giants D of 1984-86 would NEVER have put up the stats Eric cites with Fewell as the DC.

Blaming Fewell is simply wishful thinking that things are now going to suddenly get better. They're not. In fact, the D is so pathetic that I believe it would be career suicide for Coughlin if the Giants bother spending any resources on the defense in 2015 - because it isn't going to help. The D is so bad that unless they are lucky enough to find a game changer in the draft (highly unlikely), no amount of resource allocation to the D in 2015 is going to make it much better. Coughlin needs to win in 2015 and the only way he's going to do that is to build the offense into the mightiest in Giants history - something that is possible if they devote all their resources to the offense this year
(but the D is a 2-3 year project).

has to be fixed. Thats the biggest problem with the defense.

Best DT in the league for a team with those miserable stats.

Kennard doesn't go the way of JW and regress in his second season. We really could use some production out of the LB spot

Our talent level on defense has been awful. Hankins may have been our best player on D (apart from DRC), and we were still run on with ease. On DL, aside from Hankins, JPP was good for half a season and useless the first half season when it counted. The rest were has-beens or might-bes. One rookie LB who showed real promise when not hurt. Rest of the LBs were dreck. (Folks who bemoan that Beason got hurt were dreaming. Beason has always been hurt: that's why we were able to get him for a 7th round pick.) We had one quality but aging safety. Our only strong position was CB, and that is one position where we can legitimately claim that the injury-bug made a difference.
Was Fewell a lousy DC? Sure, but the greatest DC in history could not have gotten decent results from this pathetic crew.
It all makes me wonder about all the noice about OL and WR in the draft. We are in desperate need of talent on D.

and coverage to the ball quicker with better athletes and fundamentals, not much will change this season

About to play out 2015 Giants defense.

But in this case, I do. I think it's imperative that the Giants upgrade DT and Safety in free agency, and prioritize Safety in the draft, as well.

In comment 12128207 Klaatu said:

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But in this case, I do. I think it's imperative that the Giants upgrade DT and Safety in free agency, and prioritize Safety in the draft, as well.

Klaatu, everyone agrees the defense needs help. My point is that Coughlin has one year - 2015 - to win (which is stupid, but the reality). If I didn't care about 2016 etc and only cared about 2015, then I am putting every resource I can to surround the one HOF player on this team (Beckham) with a supporting cast to make the offense truly great. The Giants aren't going to have a top 5 or top 10 defense next year regardless of what they do - and improving it to be a top 15 defense doesn't get Coughlin the "bang for the buck" he needs to continue coaching after 2015.

both from a fans emotional perspective as well as from a tactical perspective.

by defensive line centric defense, I mean scheme for play to play line gap responsibility / opportunity variations based on the ability of each DL player and the specific opposition, and make the back 6 or 7 accommodate any areas of risk/opportunity that this presents. which probably means more man cover from corners since it could get overly complex.

I favor building a line that can execute aspects of the 4-3, the 3-4, a modified 46 and a 5 - 1-5. if you insist on sam types, put them as the 5th dl'er, i.e. at 'backer.'

I favor having a true nose tackle on the roster, bigger defensive ends, as well as the 'multiple' type DTs that can jump gaps and-or make plays from horizontal or formerly horizontal positions.

You cannot just stand there holding a spot and waiting for linebackers.

all this requires a recruitment attitude.

from one year to another, a different and possibly better method is to compare each year to the league average (given how the rules and their enforcement have been increasingly slanted toward the offense). I decided to waste some time and compile and summarize some statistics from Pro-Football-Reference.com (link below)

Quote:

Year.. Leag Avg Yds .. NYG Yds .. Leag Avg Yds /Game .. NYG Yds / Game .. NYG - Leag Yds / Game .. NYG Rank (Yds) .. DC 2014 ..... 5570 ........... 6012 .............. 348.1 ........................ 376 ......................... +28 ........................... 29th ..........(Fewell) 2013 ..... 5576 ........... 5316 .............. 348.5 ........................ 332 ......................... +16 ............................ 8th ...........(Fewell) 2012 ..... 5555 ........... 6134 .............. 347.2 ........................ 383 ......................... +36 ........................... 31st ..........(Fewell) 2011 ..... 5549 ........... 6022 .............. 346.8 ........................ 376 ......................... +30 ........................... 27th ..........(Fewell) 2010 ..... 5377 ........... 4990 .............. 336.0 ........................ 312 ......................... -24 ............................ 7th ...........(Fewell) 2009 ..... 5362 ........... 5198 .............. 335.1 ........................ 325 ......................... -10 ............................ 13th ..........(Sheridan) 2008 ..... 5236 ........... 4672 .............. 327.2 ........................ 292 ......................... -35 ............................ 5th ..........(Spagnuolo) 2007 ..... 5204 ........... 4880 .............. 325.2 ........................ 305 ......................... -20 ............................ 7th ..........(Spagnuolo) 2006 ..... 5154 ........... 5479 .............. 322.1 ........................ 342 ......................... -20 ............................ 25th ..........(Lewis) 1990 ..... 4938 ........... 4206 .............. 308.6 ........................ 263 ......................... -46 ............................ 2nd ..........(Belichick) 1986 ..... 5188 ........... 4757 .............. 324.0 ........................ 297 ......................... -27 ............................ 2nd ..........(Belichick) All of these data are by yards, not points (someone else can do that, the data are there). Fewell's defenses have been monumentally bad in 3 of his 4 years. Spags made a big improvement in his first year last time. Sheridan's defense wasn't as bad as I thought compared to the league. Belichick's defenses were outstanding as expected. I would have thought 1986 was more dominant than 1990, but the 1990 defense gave up almost 50 yards a game less than the league average.

Link - ( New Window )

2008 defense (after losing Strahan and Osi) gave up fewer yards than the 1986 defense.

In comment 12128252 Trainmaster said:

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2008 defense (after losing Strahan and Osi) gave up fewer yards than the 1986 defense.

Had Strahan and Osi been there in 2008 and playing well this would have been the greatest defense the Giants ever had "statistically" and maybe in the hearts of the team.

Strahan, Osi and no Plax firing his gun to mess things up and we win the SB over Pittsburgh. Sigh...

being on the giants DL was a serious business.

bad vs the run.

The sack numbers are surprisingly high. The pass rush came on late but was pretty weak early in the season. I hope the Giants don't rest on their pass rush laurels this offseason.

DT Shelton, 340 pounds, and future anchor of a superb interior DL that won't allow 3.9 ypc!

I mean, 4.9 ypc! Sheesh!

Kiwi, Patterson, Kuhn and our LB's generally sucked against the run.

I see new meat, more speed for 2015.

In comment 12128262 chris r said:

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bad vs the run. The sack numbers are surprisingly high. The pass rush came on late but was pretty weak early in the season. I hope the Giants don't rest on their pass rush laurels this offseason.

linebackers sux

In comment 12128252 Trainmaster said:

Quote:

2008 defense (after losing Strahan and Osi) gave up fewer yards than the 1986 defense.

That's b/c the Giants OL dominated the game and made opponents practically one dimensional. Plaxidope derailed that great team.

In comment 12128277 mdc1 said:

Quote:

In comment 12128262 chris r said: Quote: bad vs the run. The sack numbers are surprisingly high. The pass rush came on late but was pretty weak early in the season. I hope the Giants don't rest on their pass rush laurels this offseason. linebackers sux

Linebackers yes, but worse was JPP imo. Seems people already forget how often JPP took a quick step inside and ended up giving up the outside. Offenses ran on JPP and then ran on him some more. And he was completely invisible the entire first half of the season. I've not looked at his stats, but to my eyes, it seemed to me that JPP only started showing up on the stat sheet after the season was already over.

Q - Points Allowed

01-084 Giants shut out 4 teams in the first
02-086 Giants shutout 4 teams in the second
03-133 Giants shutout 1 team in the third
04-097 Giants shutout 6 teams in the fourth

16-400 Total

Scoring Drives Against Giants Defense - Plays - Yards - How other team gained possession (PU-Punt, KO-Kickoff,INT-Interception,FU-Fumble, Downs-Failed 4th down conversion)

Code:

1Q 10-81 PU 03-80 PU 04-80 KO 06-80 PU 09-80 KO 11-80 KO 13-79 PU 11-76 PU 07-75 KO 12-70 KO 09-69 PU 10-67 KO 11-67 KO 08-60 KO 11-58 PU 11-40 INT 06-18 FU 06-15 KO 2Q 15-85 PU 10-80 KO 10-80 KO 07-77 KO 09-77 KO 05-74 KO 11-73 KO 02-68 PU 11-66 KO 09-61 KO 09-58 PU 03-47 PU 10-42 PU 06-30 PU 06-16 PU 04-03 INT 3Q 08-97 Downs 04-93 PU 06-93 PU 10-90 KO 08-84 KO 05-83 KO 03-80 PU 08-80 KO 13-74 KO 08-73 PU 09-71 KO 08-70 PU 06-67 KO 09-66 PU 04-65 PU 08-65 PU 03-59 PU 07-58 INT 04-52 INT 08-45 PU 05-19 INT 04-08 INT 02-04 FU TO Blocked punt TO Int TO Fumble 4Q 07-80 KO 08-80 KO 12-80 KO 03-66 PU 11-55 KO 07-53 PU 10-53 KO 10-49 KO 04-46 Downs 02-27 Fumble 04-07 Fumble 04-05 Downs Punt Return TO Fumble

Quarter is when drive started

Since I compiled this it is unofficial...

In comment 12128275 SGMen said:

Quote:

DT Shelton, 340 pounds, and future anchor of a superb interior DL that won't allow 3.9 ypc! I mean, 4.9 ypc! Sheesh! Kiwi, Patterson, Kuhn and our LB's generally sucked against the run. I see new meat, more speed for 2015.

It wasn't just the middle of the D. Our DEs got owned too. Teams would run option on us and take it to the outside. Even on regular running plays teams were able to run outside, turn the corner and head up field.

That the giants biggest need on defense lies up the middle.

DT, MLB and Safety. And not necessarily in that order.

If you believe in Kenard as a future mike that's fine but I'd feel much better about the LBs if kenard was doing damage as a pass rushing outside backer who can also play the run.

We need a rangy safety and a solid DT to pair up with hank first and foremost but man id love to see this defense with a legit mike because McClain and kenard can play.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Reese spends a lot of money on a FA DT this offseason but I'm not sure who's available. And we do need a rangy safety in a big way.

Don't be shocked if a Canty like move comes this off season. Reese let Joseph go because he's not really a pass rushing type he's more a plugger. Reese would prefer to spend the money on a DT with long arms and pass rushing skills, in my view. Time will tell. But we need another DT because Patterson and Jenkins are done.

This one will be all about the defense. Yes, we need more bodies on the o-line but I could see us going the FA route, signing a starting G and some depth. Mara basically said we need to get younger on defense and that means draft. Giants have to re-sign JPP and build around him. We're gonna see the bulk of our resources aimed at fixing that D.

1) Yes, we suck at the defensive POA, real bad;

2) We also suck on the other side of the ball at the POA;

3) You can't fix all that suck in one off-season;

4) Better to fix the suck on the offensive line;

5) And that means better run blocking O-linemen;

6) And that includes a better run blocking TE;

7) Then we get control of the clock a little more;

8) Which will mask & alleviate all that suck on the defensive side of the ball.

9) Bottom line: the synergy works from offense to defense more than it does the other way around!

In comment 12128342 djm said:

Quote:

That the giants biggest need on defense lies up the middle. DT, MLB and Safety. And not necessarily in that order. If you believe in Kenard as a future mike that's fine but I'd feel much better about the LBs if kenard was doing damage as a pass rushing outside backer who can also play the run. We need a rangy safety and a solid DT to pair up with hank first and foremost but man id love to see this defense with a legit mike because McClain and kenard can play.

In full agreement here.

He was affordable and we would not have had to use a third round pick on Bromley who may or may not fill the bill. Now we may use another high pick this year to fill DT. It was a bad move then and it may be getting worse.

And the Vikings defense wasn't that much better than ours. They didn't get much bang for their bucks.

competent , and we make the playoffs

But I think DRC is a damn good corner -- probably a better corner than Joseph is a DT and they pretty much got similar money.

I'd feel much better about losing Joseph if we could land a legit DT to pair up with Hankins. We held our breath going into 2014 hoping that Patterson, Jenkins and the rest would hold their own next to hank. They didn't. Jenkins was ok early and that's being friendly before getting hurt and the rest were and are jags. We need a legit body at DT. Preferably a disrupter.

you guys perpetuate this nonsense that some magic system is going to raise this defense 10 places in the standings. Not happening without replacing at half the defensive players.

In comment 12128157 baadbill said:

Quote:

I LOVE Spags for the very reason I couldn't stand Fewell - I want a defense that plays downhill ... Having said that, it is just ridiculous to think the problem with the Giants defense was Fewell and that all will be solved by Spags. Great players play great regardless of the scheme. The Giants D of 1984-86 would NEVER have put up the stats Eric cites with Fewell as the DC. Blaming Fewell is simply wishful thinking that things are now going to suddenly get better. They're not. In fact, the D is so pathetic that I believe it would be career suicide for Coughlin if the Giants bother spending any resources on the defense in 2015 - because it isn't going to help. The D is so bad that unless they are lucky enough to find a game changer in the draft (highly unlikely), no amount of resource allocation to the D in 2015 is going to make it much better. Coughlin needs to win in 2015 and the only way he's going to do that is to build the offense into the mightiest in Giants history - something that is possible if they devote all their resources to the offense this year (but the D is a 2-3 year project).

Yeah. That's why when Lewis was fired and Spags came in things got better. Same when Sherridan got canned.

Fewell wasn't the worst DC ever. He was just so much better than Sherridan. Coaching doesn't cure all but shut coaches don't help. Lewis and Sherrisan were horrendous. Fewell became inept As time went on Not a bad guy but one who definitely needed to go

got 9 million dollars last year.. he is simply not worth that...

Good situation for Spags. Move the D from 29th to 20th in year one and its a success. It will obviously get harder and require talent, right now it should be relatively easy.

View it like hockey. If the guys isn't playing 100%, bench him. Waiving JPP is a start to regaining control on performance. As much as I like J Williams speed and athleticism, he's an arm tackler who can't be tolerated.

trade down logic.

you need a bunch of hard nosed defenders, 2 more DTs, maybe 2 DEs (or some combination of DT/DE tweeners), people also advocate justifiably for linebacker, free safety (2 of them) and so forth.

and dont forget the OL, RB, another shot at TE and a mid round slot wr.

Its scheme -and- the players, now that you know what you want and need on DL, presumably, you need a pile of draft spots.

In comment 12128257 SGMen said:

Quote:

In comment 12128252 Trainmaster said: Quote: 2008 defense (after losing Strahan and Osi) gave up fewer yards than the 1986 defense. Had Strahan and Osi been there in 2008 and playing well this would have been the greatest defense the Giants ever had "statistically" and maybe in the hearts of the team. Strahan, Osi and no Plax firing his gun to mess things up and we win the SB over Pittsburgh. Sigh...

I think most of the NFL world agrees, I will still never get over that season. It's right up there with the blown SB run we could have had if Fassle wasnt a terrible coach and forced his D to play prevent for most of the 2nd half vs SF.

In comment 12128884 LauderdaleMatty said:

Quote:

Yeah. That's why when Lewis was fired and Spags came in things got better. Same when Sherridan got canned.

No. The defense across the board became healthier the seasons after.

Look at how many games the starting d-line in 2006 played and look at how many they started the next season in 2007.

In 2009, look at how many games the back 7 missed (CC Brown AND Aaron Rouse were both somehow allowed to start games together!) and compare that to the nearly full health the defense had the very next season in 2010.

Given good health over 16 games, the Giants defense in 2015 will improve dramatically over last season.

"You aren't doing that without replacing half the defensive players
HomerJones45 : 2/8/2015 8:07 pm : link : reply
you guys perpetuate this nonsense that some magic system is going to raise this defense 10 places in the standings. Not happening without replacing at half the defensive players."

Okay, then explain this:

2009 13th ..........(Sheridan)
2008 ..... 5th ..........(Spagnuolo)
2007 ..... 7th ..........(Spagnuolo)
2006 ..... 25th ..........(Lewis)

Did Spags replace half the defense after Lewis to make a 20 rank jump?
Did Sheridan loose half the defense to make his 10 rank dip?

part about fewell's defense was the consistent communication breakdowns in the secondary, leading to walk in touchdowns or major plays by the opposing offense. it's one thing to be defeated because of the size, strength and speed of opponents; it's another thing to give them gift points and yards.

the seattle and detroit games were complete abominations in terms of defensive coaching readiness. it was not just one meathead missing plays on defense; it was just total confusion/chaos.

In comment 12129190 SMitch2 said:

Quote:

"You aren't doing that without replacing half the defensive players HomerJones45 : 2/8/2015 8:07 pm : link : reply you guys perpetuate this nonsense that some magic system is going to raise this defense 10 places in the standings. Not happening without replacing at half the defensive players." Okay, then explain this: 2009 13th ..........(Sheridan) 2008 ..... 5th ..........(Spagnuolo) 2007 ..... 7th ..........(Spagnuolo) 2006 ..... 25th ..........(Lewis) Did Spags replace half the defense after Lewis to make a 20 rank jump? Did Sheridan loose half the defense to make his 10 rank dip?

LOL to you my friend. Does this defense have even 1/4 the talent that the 2007 group had? Do you see Strahan, Tuck, Osi, Kiwi, Cofield up front here? Or even an Antonio Pierce at MLB?

who was added from '06 to '07 that made the '07 defense so better???? That's the real question. K. Mitchell is the only one I can think of, and he was a late signing that was roundly critized at the time he was signed. Pesonally I think Beason is better than Pierce. He playing in every game in '13, had a freak toe injury and everyone assumes he will be hurt again.

In comment 12129382 RollBlue said:

Quote:

who was added from '06 to '07 that made the '07 defense so better???? That's the real question. K. Mitchell is the only one I can think of, and he was a late signing that was roundly critized at the time he was signed. Pesonally I think Beason is better than Pierce. He playing in every game in '13, had a freak toe injury and everyone assumes he will be hurt again.

The biggest acquisition was "health," which didn't cost anything but a little bit of luck.

In 2006, Strahan played 9 games. Osi played 11. Tuck played 6.

In 2007, those same 3 players started all 20 games.

In comment 12129382 RollBlue said:

Quote:

who was added from '06 to '07 that made the '07 defense so better???? That's the real question. K. Mitchell is the only one I can think of, and he was a late signing that was roundly critized at the time he was signed. Pesonally I think Beason is better than Pierce. He playing in every game in '13, had a freak toe injury and everyone assumes he will be hurt again.

The point is they had better players back then to start with. Beason is NOT better than Pierce. And since 2011 he has played 1, 4, 15 and 4 games per season, so no, you can't count on him. The DL is a shell of what it was then. The pieces were in place when Spags got here the first time. They have serious personnel issues this time. Look at the DL Spags inherited in 2007 compared to this year's version. Not even close.

that now knows the new system, and a genuine superstar in OBJ will help a lot. Keeping the defense off the field and scoring more points. Fewel was over his head. Lets see what Reese does in the draft and FA to bolster this problem we have in the defensive front seven.