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Giants 1st rd pick. Peat or scherff?

eli10 : 2/8/2015 12:43 pm
I believe it's a good bet the giants go OL in the 1st. If they do it will probably come down to these two players.

Who would you rather have the giants take and why?

I like Peat better because i believe he is the best LT in the draft. The giants could start him at right tackle his 1st year to gain experience and then he could replace beatty in the future.
Peat or La'el Collins  
Mike in NY : 2/8/2015 12:54 pm : link
I think of the available OT they are the most likely to play LT in the NFL. I think Scherff at best is an OG and not an elite one at that. My concern with Peat is I sm not sure if he offers any versatility to play anywhere but LT. You are not drafting him with the thought that he will initially be an RT but he has the most potential at LT of anyone in this draft. While I think Collins can be an LT it definitely depends on scheme while Peat can do it for everyone
If the Giants land an OG in FA I'd prefer Peat.  
yatqb : 2/8/2015 12:54 pm : link
I agree that he's the best LT prospect in the draft.

If they don't land an OG in FA, however, the decision becomes more difficult for me, as I think that the addition of Scherff would immediately solve our OL problems in the running game, as long as Schwartz also comes back healthy. Putting two really strong run blockers next to our adequate but less powerful OTs would give us a very solid OL.

Yet Peat will likely be a top LT in the league, and they don't come available too often. At the same time, Scherff may well be an all-pro caliber OG or RT, and that's nothing to sneeze at.

Glad I don't have to make the decision. Frankly, I'm not sure that Reese will either, as one or both of these guys might be gone by pick 9.
the Giants should take care of that  
chris r : 2/8/2015 12:57 pm : link
last starting OL in FA. No need to waste another year of Eli's prime waiting for a rookie to develop.
I have no doubt that Reese will draft a DE or WR  
sb from NYT Forum : 2/8/2015 1:14 pm : link
...and drive us all insane.
RE: the Giants should take care of that  
NYBEN1963 : 2/8/2015 1:18 pm : link
In comment 12128208 chris r said:
Quote:
last starting OL in FA. No need to waste another year of Eli's prime waiting for a rookie to develop.


Agree 100% Orlando franklin or Iupati would be good fits. Then start rebuilding this defense with that first round pick
at some point the manning retire  
idiotsavant : 2/8/2015 1:20 pm : link
you could really use a great O line during that transition.
RE: I have no doubt that Reese will draft a DE or WR  
BMac : 2/8/2015 1:21 pm : link
In comment 12128221 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
...and drive us all insane.


If he goes BPA, and there's no reason to believe he won't, he's not going to pick an OL that doesn't deserve to get picked until the latter half of Round 1 into the early half of Round Two.

There are perhaps two DEs that more or less fit the Giants' criteria, and at least three WRs.

I'm thinking that all the talk of early first round OL is just that...talk. There's no one of the group that wouldn't be a reach and an absolute need pick at the 9-slot. That just isn't smart drafting and isn't at all likely to happen.

Round Two will be when OL start fitting in. I'd guess at least one, maybe two, of the Tackles will be available and that could be the pick there.
RE: RE: the Giants should take care of that  
Emil : 2/8/2015 1:23 pm : link
In comment 12128226 NYBEN1963 said:
Quote:
In comment 12128208 chris r said:


Quote:


last starting OL in FA. No need to waste another year of Eli's prime waiting for a rookie to develop.



Agree 100% Orlando franklin or Iupati would be good fits. Then start rebuilding this defense with that first round pick


I concur with the concept, but who at #9. The only defenders i would even consider at #9 are Shelton and Dupree and admittedly Dupree could be reach. It's still early though and someone could rise. Would love to add an impact defensive player, but I just don't see many in this draft... yet.
RE: I have no doubt that Reese will draft a DE or WR  
Emil : 2/8/2015 1:24 pm : link
In comment 12128221 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
...and drive us all insane.


Nothing wrong with adding a DE or WR if they are worthy of the ninth pick. I see WRs who are, not sure there is a DE who is.
This is the year to trade down  
gmenrule : 2/8/2015 1:30 pm : link
to middle of 1st round and then grab an extra 3rd rounder. OL value is middle of 1st to middle of 2nd rd.
Both would be terrible picks  
EliMcAdoo2015 : 2/8/2015 1:33 pm : link
Peat is another Will Beatty

Scherff is another Robert Gallery

What a waste at 9
I like Scherff.  
Crispino : 2/8/2015 1:36 pm : link
Nasty, physical road grader. I want to add physicality up front and he's the strongest, most physical lineman in the draft.
assuming you do want to go OL at 9  
chris r : 2/8/2015 1:38 pm : link
and that the comparisons of Peat to Solder and Scherff to Martin are accurate, who do you take? An elite guard or a good tackle?
I'm not sure I like any of the OT's at #9.  
TC : 2/8/2015 1:39 pm : link
I've watched video of Scherff, Collins and Peat. I don't like Scherff at all. He seemed to have the most problems of the three. The many glowing descriptions I've heard of Collins made believe he'd stand out above the other two, but he didn't. Sometimes dominant at the POA, but more often having trouble sticking with his man, particularly when pass blocking.

Peat surprised me. His size prejudiced me to expect a big clumsy kid. Big he is, clumsy he isn't! Surprisingly nimble, the most effective of the three, and easily the best passing blocker. And while he has a way to go to become a finished NFL product, he looks like he can play in this league, and maybe someday become a dominant OT.
RE: I like Scherff.  
EliMcAdoo2015 : 2/8/2015 1:40 pm : link
In comment 12128247 Crispino said:
Quote:
Nasty, physical road grader. I want to add physicality up front and he's the strongest, most physical lineman in the draft.




Here's the problem: Scherff can't pass-protect against NFL pass-rushers. His feet/kick-slide is extremely below average, and will get him destroyed in the NFL.

We need to continue to give Eli a perfect pocket, Scherff isn't what we need.
RE: I'm not sure I like any of the OT's at #9.  
EliMcAdoo2015 : 2/8/2015 1:43 pm : link
In comment 12128249 TC said:
Quote:
I've watched video of Scherff, Collins and Peat. I don't like Scherff at all. He seemed to have the most problems of the three. The many glowing descriptions I've heard of Collins made believe he'd stand out above the other two, but he didn't. Sometimes dominant at the POA, but more often having trouble sticking with his man, particularly when pass blocking.

Peat surprised me. His size prejudiced me to expect a big clumsy kid. Big he is, clumsy he isn't! Surprisingly nimble, the most effective of the three, and easily the best passing blocker. And while he has a way to go to become a finished NFL product, he looks like he can play in this league, and maybe someday become a dominant OT.


Agreed.

I don't understand the Scherff hype.

He gets beat all the time in pass-pro.

People place too much value on run-blocking.

This is a passing league.
Cowboys and Romo did great drafting an OL  
ZogZerg : 2/8/2015 1:44 pm : link
In the first round.
RE: This is the year to trade down  
mdc1 : 2/8/2015 1:47 pm : link
In comment 12128237 gmenrule said:
Quote:
to middle of 1st round and then grab an extra 3rd rounder. OL value is middle of 1st to middle of 2nd rd.


yes, unless an unbelievable talent drops to us.
RE: Cowboys and Romo did great drafting an OL  
EliMcAdoo2015 : 2/8/2015 1:47 pm : link
In comment 12128263 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
In the first round.



They have the 2nd best Center in the NFL in Frederick.

We don't.
RE: Cowboys and Romo did great drafting an OL  
Emil : 2/8/2015 1:50 pm : link
In comment 12128263 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
In the first round.


True, but how long can they afford to hold that line together. Could cost them more holes on defense and the loss of two pro-bowl skill players. The Dallas OL is a great story, but pieces are going to start falling off. I think you build an OL by finding players you don't have to overpay to be part of a unit. The Giants had a great OL when it was Diehl, Seubert, O'Hara, Snee, and McKenzie and I think McKensize was the highest paid member and was more than reasonably priced.

The other part is, if we are to counter Dallas' OL, we need a DL to match, which the Giants currently don't have.

Collins or Flowers  
jeff57 : 2/8/2015 1:50 pm : link
Depends if they'prefer to move Pugh inside. If they do, Peat or Flowers would be the choices. If they don't, I'd look at Scherff and Collins.
RE: Cowboys and Romo did great drafting an OL  
BMac : 2/8/2015 1:51 pm : link
In comment 12128263 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
In the first round.


Ask them who they'd rather have, OBJ or Martin.
RE: RE: I'm not sure I like any of the OT's at #9.  
TC : 2/8/2015 2:04 pm : link
In comment 12128258 EliMcAdoo2015 said:
Quote:
In comment 12128249 TC said:


Quote:


I've watched video of Scherff, Collins and Peat. I don't like Scherff at all. He seemed to have the most problems of the three. The many glowing descriptions I've heard of Collins made believe he'd stand out above the other two, but he didn't. Sometimes dominant at the POA, but more often having trouble sticking with his man, particularly when pass blocking.

Peat surprised me. His size prejudiced me to expect a big clumsy kid. Big he is, clumsy he isn't! Surprisingly nimble, the most effective of the three, and easily the best passing blocker. And while he has a way to go to become a finished NFL product, he looks like he can play in this league, and maybe someday become a dominant OT.



Agreed.

I don't understand the Scherff hype.

He gets beat all the time in pass-pro.

People place too much value on run-blocking.

This is a passing league.


The video I watched of Scherff didn't even show him as a dominant run blocker. Nasty? Yes. Dominant? No. More than half the time I saw him getting pushed around or falling off the defender.
Scherff is a dominant run blocker  
jeff57 : 2/8/2015 2:08 pm : link
Could be an all pro LG.

But Collins is a better pass blocker and almost as good a run blocker.
Considering how epically bad our defense was,  
hoopy3 : 2/8/2015 2:33 pm : link
the fact that a dominant (maybe the best in football dominant) defensive line was one of the main reasons we won in 2007, and the shear lack of talent on the current Giants' defense at all 3 levels (DE, LB, Safety)...I am surprised at the desire to go offensive line instead of defense. Spagnoulo made his rep with the 4-aces...i have to think they will want to give him something to work with.

Offensive lineman can take years to develop. Obviously we need to draft some. However, to expect a rookie to come in and solidify the line is asking a lot. The rookie tackles have not faired well overall. Zack Martin was moved to guard and protected on all sides. At least a defender can be rotated in. You can't rotate o-lineman and be successful.

Much better chance of recreating the Mckenzie situation of 2005 (free agency) then drafting someone and expecting an instant impact on the line.
Peat is a LT and could have the grade at #9  
JonC : 2/8/2015 2:37 pm : link
I don't believe Scherff will, and part of the lower grade is he's very likely a RT or OG in the NFL. Collins falls into this criteria as well, imo. I just don't see NYG burning the #9 overall pick on any OL other than a left tackle.

I also tend to agree with BMac here in that it's very likely a DE or WR will be the BPA at #9. But, unless they're really sold on said player I'd draft Peat.

As we move into Combines and pro days, pay close attention to DE and WR. "Playmaker" gets them NYG priority on draft day.

No matter whom the pick  
micky : 2/8/2015 2:43 pm : link
be wise to build the OL through draft rather than FA. Reasons why they're FA.
RE: Peat is a LT and could have the grade at #9  
Emil : 2/8/2015 2:43 pm : link
In comment 12128322 JonC said:
Quote:
I don't believe Scherff will, and part of the lower grade is he's very likely a RT or OG in the NFL. Collins falls into this criteria as well, imo. I just don't see NYG burning the #9 overall pick on any OL other than a left tackle.

I also tend to agree with BMac here in that it's very likely a DE or WR will be the BPA at #9. But, unless they're really sold on said player I'd draft Peat.

As we move into Combines and pro days, pay close attention to DE and WR. "Playmaker" gets them NYG priority on draft day.


JonC, I tell myself every time that I'm not going to post to your responses because I already know that I will agree and why beat a dead horse. But I can't help it. Great points all around!

I know you would like to see an OT taken but I appreciate your balanced take on what is appropriate for the #9 pick. Completely agree. If an OL is taken, then it will be a guy with LT ability or no OL at all. The key is value and a LT arguably gives you options at RT and OG too.

Everyone should keep an eye on the combine. If a good sized DE shows good athleticism he is likely an instant add on the Giants list. A WR who can work the outside and shows good route running, hands, and catch radius is also on the list. Going to be a very interesting scouting process.
Emil  
JonC : 2/8/2015 2:50 pm : link
Thank you and back at ya!

I do think they'll work hard to sign a player like Franklin via UFA, as it really plugs the one immediate OL hole moving into the 2015 season cycle.

I'd actually prefer a DE at #9, I think that's the position the team most immediately have to take advantage of premium assets in the draft, as they're too expensive via UFA. But, we just don't know yet if a DE is good value there or not. I'm not as sold on the top 3 WRs so far. Not a great year to own a top 10 pick.


RE: Peat is a LT and could have the grade at #9  
BMac : 2/8/2015 2:55 pm : link
In comment 12128322 JonC said:
Quote:
I don't believe Scherff will, and part of the lower grade is he's very likely a RT or OG in the NFL. Collins falls into this criteria as well, imo. I just don't see NYG burning the #9 overall pick on any OL other than a left tackle.

I also tend to agree with BMac here in that it's very likely a DE or WR will be the BPA at #9. But, unless they're really sold on said player I'd draft Peat.

As we move into Combines and pro days, pay close attention to DE and WR. "Playmaker" gets them NYG priority on draft day.


I had said on a different thread that the one scenario under which I can see the Giants drafting Peat is that they don't envision picking anywhere nearly as low as this for a long time.

In that case, and it's a VERY special circumstance, I can see Reese et al taking Peat as their one-and-only chance at drafting a quality LT in the near-to-mid term.
RE: RE: Peat is a LT and could have the grade at #9  
JonC : 2/8/2015 2:58 pm : link
In comment 12128338 BMac said:
Quote:
In comment 12128322 JonC said:


Quote:


I don't believe Scherff will, and part of the lower grade is he's very likely a RT or OG in the NFL. Collins falls into this criteria as well, imo. I just don't see NYG burning the #9 overall pick on any OL other than a left tackle.

I also tend to agree with BMac here in that it's very likely a DE or WR will be the BPA at #9. But, unless they're really sold on said player I'd draft Peat.

As we move into Combines and pro days, pay close attention to DE and WR. "Playmaker" gets them NYG priority on draft day.




I had said on a different thread that the one scenario under which I can see the Giants drafting Peat is that they don't envision picking anywhere nearly as low as this for a long time.

In that case, and it's a VERY special circumstance, I can see Reese et al taking Peat as their one-and-only chance at drafting a quality LT in the near-to-mid term.


We agree yet again. I think things get interesting if Gregory or Ray is available, and NYG believes it's time to infuse more speed into the pass rush, but there's significant risk involved with such a strategy.
The beauty of where we sit is  
barens : 2/8/2015 3:15 pm : link
that we are all but assured to get one of those offensive linemen, whether it's Peat, Schreff or Collins. It's going to be a tough decision, but when it comes to first round picks, our front office and scouting department often makes the right call.
RE: RE: RE: Peat is a LT and could have the grade at #9  
BMac : 2/8/2015 3:17 pm : link
In comment 12128340 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 12128338 BMac said:


Quote:


In comment 12128322 JonC said:


Quote:


I don't believe Scherff will, and part of the lower grade is he's very likely a RT or OG in the NFL. Collins falls into this criteria as well, imo. I just don't see NYG burning the #9 overall pick on any OL other than a left tackle.

I also tend to agree with BMac here in that it's very likely a DE or WR will be the BPA at #9. But, unless they're really sold on said player I'd draft Peat.

As we move into Combines and pro days, pay close attention to DE and WR. "Playmaker" gets them NYG priority on draft day.




I had said on a different thread that the one scenario under which I can see the Giants drafting Peat is that they don't envision picking anywhere nearly as low as this for a long time.

In that case, and it's a VERY special circumstance, I can see Reese et al taking Peat as their one-and-only chance at drafting a quality LT in the near-to-mid term.



We agree yet again. I think things get interesting if Gregory or Ray is available, and NYG believes it's time to infuse more speed into the pass rush, but there's significant risk involved with such a strategy.


Unlike last year where the talent was available by the bucketload, the draft this year just doesn't have that true stand-out player at our slot. There are, however, still at least several reasonable options, any one of which moves the team forward.

I think this draft is a LOT more difficult to try and forecast. I'm going to stick with the notion that, whoever they pick, it'll be a big plus for now and into the future.

I do think that at least a few of the OL being bruited about here slip into Round 2. Just who they'll be well, I won't hazard a guess. Call it a gut instinct call (which probably has as much validity at this point as any prognosticator ;).
All good points, BMac  
JonC : 2/8/2015 3:22 pm : link
.
Collins over Peat  
HugeS : 2/8/2015 6:46 pm : link
Collins is just a hard nosed football player. Strong, nasty demeanor and can start on the right side and then eventually kick out to left tackle. Peat's upside is definitely higher but his floor is also lower and Giants need a player that will be banging in their starting lineup on day one not a 2-3 year project who needs time to fully develop into a strong starting caliber left tackle.
RE: RE: I have no doubt that Reese will draft a DE or WR  
sb from NYT Forum : 2/8/2015 6:50 pm : link
In comment 12128232 Emil said:
Quote:
Nothing wrong with adding a DE or WR if they are worthy of the ninth pick. I see WRs who are, not sure there is a DE who is.


I disagree, Eli needs more time to make plays, not another playmaker WR. I would prefer they get a quality FA WR in case Cruz can't be productive.

As far as who's worth what at #9, last year teams didn't think Martin wasn't worth a top 10 pick; how many would like another change at him? The first rookie All-Pro OL since 1947.
Giants might prefer Peat  
jeff57 : 2/8/2015 7:14 pm : link
They liked Solder and Lewan and Peat is cut from the same mold.
I really like Peat  
PatersonPlank : 2/8/2015 7:24 pm : link
Peat-Schwarz-Richburg-Pugh-Beatty

Thats the ticket
Beatty at RT?  
Klaatu : 2/8/2015 7:40 pm : link
I don't think so.
RE: I really like Peat  
drkenneth : 2/8/2015 7:45 pm : link
In comment 12128654 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
Peat-Schwarz-Richburg-Pugh-Beatty

Thats the ticket


How many people have to state the fact that Beatty is not a RT before this ends?
And that Schwartz is better at RG  
jeff57 : 2/8/2015 7:47 pm : link
.
RE: And that Schwartz is better at RG  
BMac : 2/8/2015 8:08 pm : link
In comment 12128694 jeff57 said:
Quote:
.


Yes, and Beatty is not a Right Tackle. I really can't wrap my head around why anyone would think this is a remotely good idea.
I think that with all this talk of OL  
Bill in TN : 2/8/2015 9:23 pm : link
Right now , prior to FA, the most sensible positionings are

LT Beatty
LG ?
C Richburgh
RG Schwartz
RT Pugh

If we draft an OL, tackle would assume Pugh goes inside; G would assume he is a LG and Pugh stays at RT.

But we're a long way from making those assumptions.
either, I'll just be happy to get a stud OL. I'll leave to Sy  
Victor in CT : 2/9/2015 8:42 am : link
to say who is best.
Clemmings  
jeff57 : 2/9/2015 8:51 am : link
Quote:


Three NFL general managers told us that they have a third-round grade on Clemmings, but they believe that the team that likes him enough to draft him will take him in the second round. Another general manager said he has a day-two grade on him. The team that has a fourth-round grade on Clemmings could consider drafting an offensive tackle late in the first round, but happens to be down on Clemmings.


Link - ( New Window )
Beatty isn't destined for RT  
JonC : 2/9/2015 8:56 am : link
If they sign Franklin via UFA, for example, then there's a good chance Peat would sit in '15, unless he's able to beat out Beatty. Or they could bypass drafting another OT, which I would not do if I were GM. The OL needs upgrades, loyalty be damned.

But make no mistake, if they view Peat as the future LT and this is a good chance to grab that cornerstone player, they'll do it and begin planning WB's exit next Winter.
RE: Beatty isn't destined for RT  
Victor in CT : 2/9/2015 9:18 am : link
In comment 12129064 JonC said:
Quote:
If they sign Franklin via UFA, for example, then there's a good chance Peat would sit in '15, unless he's able to beat out Beatty. Or they could bypass drafting another OT, which I would not do if I were GM. The OL needs upgrades, loyalty be damned.

But make no mistake, if they view Peat as the future LT and this is a good chance to grab that cornerstone player, they'll do it and begin planning WB's exit next Winter.


Agree JonC. Beatty is not an RT. He is not strong nor physical enough. He is the LT until the find a better option and then he will be cut.
It's pretty straightforward  
jeff57 : 2/9/2015 9:26 am : link
If they take Peat or Flowers, that will be the new RT with Pugh moving to LG. If they take Collins or Scherff, Pugh would probably stay at RT.
If they bypass signing a potential RT via UFA  
JonC : 2/9/2015 10:02 am : link
it suggests a significant increased chance they draft OL at #9. Not definitive, of course, but it's a strong crop and value proposition for them to instantly upgrade the OL edge. Yes, a Captain Obvious comment ...
RE: If they bypass signing a potential RT via UFA  
Klaatu : 2/9/2015 10:07 am : link
In comment 12129166 JonC said:
Quote:
it suggests a significant increased chance they draft OL at #9. Not definitive, of course, but it's a strong crop and value proposition for them to instantly upgrade the OL edge. Yes, a Captain Obvious comment ...


Or, or, maybe they like Rogers Gaines as much as I do?

Of course, since he's not even on their roster, maybe they don't like him at all.
Scherff at 9  
Percy : 2/9/2015 11:18 am : link
Would be dominant at LG right away and has OT potential. Worried the 'Skins or Jets could go for him at 5 or 6.
so what do you guys want?  
idiotsavant : 2/9/2015 11:52 am : link
a)

Beatty
Pugh
Richburg
Scherf
(free agent or mosely or always injured schwartz, unreliable jerry)

or

Beatty
Pugh
Richburg
(free agent or second rounder, but what about D?)
Peat

Schwartz has not shown that he is healthy enough to play and Jerry was apparently all over the map, play quality wise.
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