I know they need OL, DL, DB, LB . . . . Hell they need just about everything! But there are some really nice WR's in this draft, and it's a premium position, and if BPA is WR, I wouldn't get sick at WR being the pick.
I know, there's Beckham and Cruz, and Randle and Parker were serviceable, but injuries seem to have a way on the Giants of turning a strength into a weakness very quickly. And even assuming that most of these guys can stay healthy, one more top receiver could make this into a unit where no defense will be able to stack the box.
One guy I've been watching on video for whom I'm developing a man-crush is Kevin White. I like this kid! Tall, physical, good hands, decent speed. Ultra competitive! He and Beckham would constantly be pushing each other. They and Cruz could make life in the defensive backfield very hard.
Video: Kevin White vs. Alabama - (
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I want to see too, but I think you're right that #9 is a little high, but I doubt he sticks around much beyond that.
From what I've seen on video, he's more of a long strider and can cover ground, but doesn't get up to speed that quickly. He's not extremely fast in and out of his breaks, like Beckham for example. And I think the change of direction drills at the Combine will show that.
Gosh, if he'd only last until the Giants 2nd pick! He's very effective at getting position even when he's covered and making the catch. Should be a great possession and red zone receiver.
#1 Pick is an DE, OL, WR, maybe a LB at this point
No thanks. He's projecting a mid-late 1st and there's simply no way the Ginats take a RB that high. I can actually see Gurley going ahead of him if he's knee is good to go.
Why would we cut a WR on their rookie contract who still has upside? Randle has zero chance of being cut.
Agreed 100%. its a new system, and having more weapons means less blitzes the Oline will face, among other things.
Cooper, White, and Parker are all likely gone by pick 15, with two of them in the top 12.
You said "cut bait" fool. You know, 3-4 lines up^^^.
More likely a Guard, with Tackle being more swingman types. We have two starting tackles right now, and in McAdoo's system, they're all that's really needed. Shore up the middle with a good left guard and get some backup types for depth.
Anyway, what LT is available in Fa who is 1) Worth the money and 2) Significantly better than what we have now?
I'd be down with that. Give me a TE or RB somewhere else in the draft, the D can have the other 4 picks.
From what I've seen on video, he's more of a long strider and can cover ground, but doesn't get up to speed that quickly. He's not extremely fast in and out of his breaks, like Beckham for example. And I think the change of direction drills at the Combine will show that.
He sounds more like Ramses Barden than a guy you pick at #9.
-If Cruz's days are done or very numbered, a highly talented WR might be the way to go.
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but this Eli running for his life, he's forced to throw under pressure leading to bad things. Where does this stuff come from? It can't be from actually watching the games. Eli in this system got the ball out and was sacked and hit less than 90 pct of the QB's. Yeah a guy who could run block as well as pass block is important, but stop with this will be the death of Eli if they don't go Olineman
Agreed 100%. its a new system, and having more weapons means less blitzes the Oline will face, among other things.
It won't be the death of Eli if we don't go OL in the first, but the run game needs to improve. That doesn't mean we should force an OL in round one. We shouldn't, and a WR could easily be the BPA. But we do need a lot of help on the OL, and it's something we have to address in FA and no later than day two of the the draft.
Yes, we need to run the ball better but there are a number of ways to address that.
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From what I've seen on video, he's more of a long strider and can cover ground, but doesn't get up to speed that quickly. He's not extremely fast in and out of his breaks, like Beckham for example. And I think the change of direction drills at the Combine will show that.
He sounds more like Ramses Barden than a guy you pick at #9.
Now THAT'S funny! He's more similar to a 3" taller Hakeem Nicks, Version one, than to Barden.
That's true. But he did often have to get rid of the ball faster than he wanted to - especially when teams blitzed. Getting a power guard who played left tackle in college (like Collins or Scherff) can tighten up pass protection and open holes for our running backs.
Some boards have him ranked as high the end of the 1st. And I have a feeling that if he tests out the way I suspect at the Combine, someone will definitely take a flyer on him before the end of the 2nd. However, if he were there in the 3rd, I'd take a long look at him.
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but this Eli running for his life, he's forced to throw under pressure leading to bad things. Where does this stuff come from? It can't be from actually watching the games. Eli in this system got the ball out and was sacked and hit less than 90 pct of the QB's. Yeah a guy who could run block as well as pass block is important, but stop with this will be the death of Eli if they don't go Olineman
That's true. But he did often have to get rid of the ball faster than he wanted to - especially when teams blitzed. Getting a power guard who played left tackle in college (like Collins or Scherff) can tighten up pass protection and open holes for our running backs.
Ira, I wouldn't want to see Scherff pass blocking for the Giants, even at guard.
The good news:
Pass protection was good.
We get Schwartz back.
Richburg was a rookie and playing out of position.
Despite being pummeled here, Beatty is pretty good, and should be even better with a more effective LG. Remember that we won with Diehl at LT.
The bad news:
The run game sucked.
Pugh regressed, although that may be because of injury and the atrocious play of Jerry.
Jerry, Walton, Brewer, Reynolds, Snyder, and probably Herman and Mosley offer nothing. The first five should be cut or not resigned. Brown was another FA failure. Gaines might actually be the best backup right now.
We need at least two starters, and two more backups. Spend the FA $$$ to get a guard and a low cost vet, and then use a one or two on the OL. Add Gaines, and maybe Herman and Mosley.
Right on the money! You just cannot seem to make people see this, however. Maybe if they stopped taking all these need-based mocks seriously?
Yeah, just "Jerry reese will be gone if he doesn't nail this draft," right?
You don't see teams as bad as the Giants on the lines make it far in the playoffs usually.
If WR is BPA, I am all for it. Add more talented playmakers around Eli.
If he is available at #9, I don't even hesitate in handing in the card with his name on it.
You improve weaknesses, prioritize which ones are the worst, sure, but you also need strengths too and there isn't a unit on this team would fit among the league's elite (top five or so). If, say, they pick Cooper and he turns out to be legit, with Beckham already here and whoever they cobble together after him, the WR corps could become one.
I just think Cooper in "NFL ready" and with Randle in a contract year; Cruz coming off an injury; and Parker not much at #3 wideout I'd grab the BPA and build around Cooper & Beckham for the future. I mean, imagine Cooper is a 80-1100-6 type rookie who snags those short balls?
thats why I hate going after positions rather than players.
Grade the players and take the best ones if there is expected to be room on the roster for that spot. The more you try to project who is going to be there 30-60 picks later can get you in a lot of trouble and really hurt you long term.
I think you're right about Beckham shoring up the rest of the WR's, though I don't think as a whole they're anywhere near that good even with him here. But even if you're right, that leaves you one hamstring away from Eli having to rely on Larry, Moe and Curly!
I haven't watched Strong, but Funchess, while having a lot of tools, looks like being a bit of a project if he can reach his full potential, though I think he can contribute early in a more limited role.
I don't like Green-Beckham at all. His play looked half-assed, as if his heart isn't in it. Don't want any on-paper-champions who ain't got no heart!
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said move on
You said "cut bait" fool. You know, 3-4 lines up^^^.
no need to be obnoxious, I was a RR fan, but the light has not gone on and yes cut bait, meaning he looses his starting job and he is not resigned
alone makes the Jints a top 5 WR corps
Picking for need is a loser move if not guided by BPA ......
Reese wants to go BPA, if a WR and a DL have the same value he will go DL.
And that still doesnt tell us how the Giants will view them.
it depends on what we do with FA, but I've got no problem taking with the our first pick. Having him and ODB out on the field together would really stress Defenses.
We do still need to shore up that OL though. That has to be our top priority this off season.
Some boards have him ranked as high the end of the 1st. And I have a feeling that if he tests out the way I suspect at the Combine, someone will definitely take a flyer on him before the end of the 2nd. However, if he were there in the 3rd, I'd take a long look at him.
As a U of M Grad I watched a lot of Funchess and hes going to be a monster in the NFL.
The good news:
Despite being pummeled here, Beatty is pretty good, and should be even better with a more effective LG. Remember that we won with Diehl at LT.
Diehl is a better football player than Beatty
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In comment 12128428 Paulie Walnuts said:
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said move on
You said "cut bait" fool. You know, 3-4 lines up^^^.
no need to be obnoxious, I was a RR fan, but the light has not gone on and yes cut bait, meaning he looses his starting job and he is not resigned
OK Pardon the wise-assery, but IMO you can't toss of a statement like "cut bait" with RR that lightly without owning up to it. OBJ seems to have affected RR positively, at minimum because he will be drawing help over the top to himself from now on, but it seems deeper than that; they have a bond from their collegiate days. RR has talent, hopefully his head and attitude have come around...
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good news and bad news about the OL.
The good news:
Despite being pummeled here, Beatty is pretty good, and should be even better with a more effective LG. Remember that we won with Diehl at LT.
Diehl is a better football player than Beatty
Umm, better run blocker, but DD was a liability in pass protection at LT moreso than Beatty has been. DD really, really struggled against speed edge rushers and most of the time needed TE or RB chip help, something Beatty doesn't get nearly as often, so far as I can tell. The team is more confident leaving WB on an island against top pass rushers...
I'd hate it if it happens, but it is what it is. Cooper looks like a helluva player who's ready to make an impact out of the gate.
You know, there is MORE than one round in a draft. WHY is this so damn hard to understand?
You don't HAVE to address your biggest need FIRST. If it works out that way, great! But you have the WHOLE draft to address needs. Starters come in EVERY round, and not every 1st rounder turns into a starter.
There do NOT seem to be any true, Blue chip OLs in this year's draft. What if they, for example, picked the BPA and he's a WR, and then maybe spent two or three more picks in the draft on OLs? History shows you can turn a unit around that way pretty quickly that way if you pick good players. That said, the Giants haven't done much cluster drafting in the post-George Young era.
You know, there is MORE than one round in a draft. WHY is this so damn hard to understand
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Excitable aren't you?
I agree with you in princable, but strictly drafting BPA sounds good on paper but needs to be tempered. BPA got us into our current shitty situation at LB for example. When was the last time we drafted a LB high? OL hasn't gotten as much attention early as it should have. Like I said earlier if WR is far and away the BPA I have no problem with it but I don't believe that will happen.
I think they are more likely to go OL or D front 7 depending on who is on the board. I think they're going to like Flowers and Collins at OL. I think 1 of them will be there.
I think they are more likely to go OL or D front 7 depending on who is on the board. I think they're going to like Flowers and Collins at OL. I think 1 of them will be there.
I think the DL talent is comparable to what will be there for WR. OL I'm not sold on, but at the end of the day its still way too early.
If a stud quarterback is available at pick 9, would you take him? According to the BPA approach, you would. If at 40 another stud QB is avail, would you take him also? According to BPA you would.
That would leave the Gmen, who are now set at QB, with 3 top tier QBs (Eli plus the 2 picks), but a poor Oline with noone to protect them, woeful at LB, and still needy on Dline. These needs were marginalized.
Part of me looks at BPA as a luxury that top teams can afford. When you have pressing needs at many positions, going BPA leaves gaping holes.
The other big aspect to this, is how capable the coaches are at developing the draft picks. The results of Gmen coaches, at player development over the past 5-6 years have not been good.
If your top rated player is a WR, OT/G or DT/DE, you pick them. When you pick t #9 you need to get a building block for the future, not a guy to plug in a hole. That is what FA is for.
Later rounds you can start weighing position more heavily since the odds of getting a building block are very slim. Rounds 4-7 are for getting depth and, if you are lucky, a hidden gem or two.
If your top rated player is a WR, OT/G or DT/DE, you pick them. When you pick t #9 you need to get a building block for the future, not a guy to plug in a hole. That is what FA is for.
Later rounds you can start weighing position more heavily since the odds of getting a building block are very slim. Rounds 4-7 are for getting depth and, if you are lucky, a hidden gem or two.
Any pick that we make at 9 would be fine with me..Reese's track record in Rd 1 has been nothing short of exemplary imo
Also, the oline was mediocre last year, it wasn't a complete disaster so lets not act like there are high schoolers out there right now.
Maxx Williams really wants to be a Giant which means he might take a home town discount to stay with the giants at the end of his contract. We have holes on the offensive and defensive lines. A giant hole at safety since Rolle is probably not coming back.
WR is the only spot where we have bodies and talent. It's a Kiwi pick. Kiwi never got to become what he should have because we had too many DE's. It was a throw away pick. Even if Cruz doesn't make it back on time we still have guys there.
Also, the oline was mediocre last year, it wasn't a complete disaster so lets not act like there are high schoolers out there right now.
I think that's a very optimistic view of the OL. For the first half of the season it was a complete disaster, and later it improved to mediocre at best. The run blocking was never adequate. If Schwartz is healthy next year that will help, but we clearly need at least one starter even by the most optimistic view, and we need depth.
That said if the pick is WR I wont complain. A little depth there would be nice. I just hope OL is given a lot of help in FA. I do think some of these guys are way too militant with the BPA idea. These picks are made by human beings, not computers. We are all in agreement that QB is an impossible pick but some get fighting mad when others suggest that maybe we shouldn't go WR in round one for the second year in a row.
Motown you are correct sir. At this point it is a pissing match.
If we signed Iupati and a DT in FA the picture becomes a lot better. A WR starts looking a lot better and we could get a couple linemen in later rounds for depth or Beatty's eventual replacement.
If a stud quarterback is available at pick 9, would you take him? According to the BPA approach, you would. If at 40 another stud QB is avail, would you take him also? According to BPA you would.
That would leave the Gmen, who are now set at QB, with 3 top tier QBs (Eli plus the 2 picks), but a poor Oline with noone to protect them, woeful at LB, and still needy on Dline. These needs were marginalized.
Part of me looks at BPA as a luxury that top teams can afford. When you have pressing needs at many positions, going BPA leaves gaping holes.
The other big aspect to this, is how capable the coaches are at developing the draft picks. The results of Gmen coaches, at player development over the past 5-6 years have not been good.
Greg, some common sense here too. BPA is a drafting philosophy. Not a hard fast rule. But it is a philosophy, if generally followed, is the best way to build your team.
In your example, the Giants could do that, taking a QB. If Mariotta were to fall, and depending on how the Giants feel about him (and potentially what they could get in terms of trade value too). Remember when the Packers took Aaron Rodgers, when the already had Brett Favre? How did that work out? I'm sure they had other needs than QB.
Now, to say a QB at 40 wouldn't make much sense when you just drafted one. You're unnessarily stockpiling at one position.
Just from a numbers standpoint, only one QB can play at a time. Every other position can have multiple players on the field at one position.
You know trading down is not a decision the Giants make in a vacuum, right? You can't go into a draft looking to trade down unless you will be in a position to grab a franchise QB, and the Giants are not in that position at #9.
I'd lower your sights on UFA DT, and focus on a healthy prospect who can play RT and OG (e.g, Franklin).
I'd lower your sights on UFA DT, and focus on a healthy prospect who can play RT and OG (e.g, Franklin).
I have to agree with you about Suh. I'm wondering if Dan Williams is an option but I'm not sure what kind of contract he will command. It looks like there may be a few options at DT such at Paea, and Fairley. Maybe that will drive the prices down a bit?
I like Franklin a lot, and the Giants like guys that can play more than one spot on the line. Do you think he will make it to the open market? For some reason I suspect that he won't.
But we've gotten way off topic here.
1 - Cruz comes back at 80% of what he was or better.
2 - RR improves
3 - We sign a solid, but not spectacular Vet WR (i.e. Miles Austin or Cecil Shorts)
4 - Select a WR in the 2nd or 3rd Round that is a solid talent
Also have to figure that OBJ is only going to get better and draw more attention given what he did last year. That just frees up more room for the 2nd and 3rd WR. With all of that and the need for so much more talent on the other side of the ball, I would be pretty angry if the Giants went WR with their highest pick since we drafted Eli.
80% of a receiver isnt what you want.. The Giants need to get another receiver in this draft.. maybe not round one depending on what is there.. but they need one..
RR won't be on the team in 2016, Cruz is a ?
If you keep JPP and sign Suh everything else can be addressed via draft.
The answer is nein.
4-3 is built on DE talent, firstly, and that's where Reese puts his $.
However, I do agree with you. Just debating.
The pro-Suh crowd needs to map out the roster plus cap hits, and figure out just how to insert Suh at ~$15M per year in compensation, and also pay at least one DE big dollars.
I would love to sign Terrance Knighton or even better Dan Williams tho.
We sure could use some fresh beef at DT since Patterson and Jenkins are rubbish. And Bromley unknown
There would be few moves worse than what you suggest. Suh is going to be way too expensive and, frankly, not all that much better than Hankins when it comes down to it.
Iupati is a poor pass blocker and looks to have concussion issues. A high-priced FA who is injured reserve waiting to happen.
Peat? Maybe, but I doubt very much that he's BPA or anywhere close to it at #9.
Collins? May be available in the sewcond round. He sure as hell isn't going at #9.
The answer is nein.
Time for a visit from The Knights Who Say Nicht!
NFL rosters have a lot of volatility year to year. Because of that, you (with probably very few exceptions) take the best player available on your board because (other than QB) you just can't make assumptions about your roster in the (even near) future.
The Giants looked absolutely loaded at WR after Super Bowl 46. Two years later, it was probably a below-average unit. Then we drafted Beckham, who thankfully has turned out awesome so far.
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Do you foresee NYG spending $20M on Eli, $15M on Suh, and $15M on JPP?
The answer is nein.
Time for a visit from The Knights Who Say Nicht!
Indeed!