It seems as though many here are pretty high on this guy becoming a contributor next year. However i dont remember him flashing much ability last year. Did I miss a stretch where this guy kinda went off?
but he might be the best Giants DT prospect since the 1980s.
Linval Joseph did about as much as a rookie as Bromley. He was usually inactive and rarely played.
Jay Alford played a bit as a rookie and had that big sack in the Super Bowl, but he didn't have much of an impact other than that one play his rookie year. Then he got hurt.
Barry Cofield contributed about as much as LJ.
William Joseph never did much of anything.
I don't recall Cornelius Griffin playing much as a rookie, either, but that's a long time ago, I could be wrong.
I think the bottom line here is that rookie DTs don't play much. This is the year you would expect to see Bromley play and gauge what kind of player he'll be.
And he was a half count late off the snap every single snap. It was almost painful to watch but it was his first active week in 7 weeks so I don't want to be too hard on him.
He looked to have good strength but when you're still in your stance and the OL is already engaged, you're done. It's definitely something that's correctable but you don't see that too often out of NFL DTs.
DTs all seem to get a redshirt year. A lot of that is because we typically on activate 3 DTs on game day. Bromley was even less ready than Joseph, Cofield, Joseph, and Hankins to step in right away. As others have said, we'll get a better read on what he can do this year.
81_Great_Dane: Cofield started all 16 games as a rookie.
is ok when he says Bromley is behind Hankinson, but that's as far as I'm willing to go.
These comps with Linval over and over are totally off base if you make his "redshirt year" the standard practice for DTs or DL on this team. Look who Linval had ahead of him in his draft year:
95 Rocky Bernard DT
99 Chris Canty DT
96 Barry Cofield DT
91 Justin Tuck DE
71 Dave Tollefson DE
That's some pretty kickass talent, with Tuck in his prime.
I include Tuck and the valuable Tollefson because they often slid inside, but Cofield (who went to 'Skins for big bucks next year), Canty, Bernard and the two aforementioned are not swiss cheese; you had JPP and another guy at DE.
In 2014 our DL was paper thin and not very good, given our "defense" against the run was toward League bottom. If Bromley had anything, he would have played; more likely, he sucked when he did. Rookies with talent play; those who do not sit on the bench until it's too embarassing for Reese to keep them around any longer.
Cofield, Griffin, whatever the roster circumstances, stepped right in. Bromley, not so much. Bromley's presence on the roster should have next to zero impact on who the Giants take in this draft if they are drafting for talent and certainly should have no bearing on who they take at #9. Sorry to repeat what I said in the other thread.
is ok when he says Bromley is behind Hankinson, but that's as far as I'm willing to go.
These comps with Linval over and over are totally off base if you make his "redshirt year" the standard practice for DTs or DL on this team. Look who Linval had ahead of him in his draft year:
95 Rocky Bernard DT
99 Chris Canty DT
96 Barry Cofield DT
91 Justin Tuck DE
71 Dave Tollefson DE
That's some pretty kickass talent, with Tuck in his prime.
I include Tuck and the valuable Tollefson because they often slid inside, but Cofield (who went to 'Skins for big bucks next year), Canty, Bernard and the two aforementioned are not swiss cheese; you had JPP and another guy at DE.
In 2014 our DL was paper thin and not very good, given our "defense" against the run was toward League bottom. If Bromley had anything, he would have played; more likely, he sucked when he did. Rookies with talent play; those who do not sit on the bench until it's too embarassing for Reese to keep them around any longer.
Cofield, Griffin, whatever the roster circumstances, stepped right in. Bromley, not so much. Bromley's presence on the roster should have next to zero impact on who the Giants take in this draft if they are drafting for talent and certainly should have no bearing on who they take at #9. Sorry to repeat what I said in the other thread.
Part of that is because he started out 5th on the depth chart and with all the new CBA limits, it's hard to get enough practice reps to move up.
As a general rule, lots of teams think that rookie DTs are not physically strong enough to play much. They spend a lot of time bulking up & by year 2, are usually ready for some serious time. I don't see anything different with Bromley
is ok when he says Bromley is behind Hankinson, but that's as far as I'm willing to go.
These comps with Linval over and over are totally off base if you make his "redshirt year" the standard practice for DTs or DL on this team. Look who Linval had ahead of him in his draft year:
95 Rocky Bernard DT
99 Chris Canty DT
96 Barry Cofield DT
91 Justin Tuck DE
71 Dave Tollefson DE
That's some pretty kickass talent, with Tuck in his prime.
I include Tuck and the valuable Tollefson because they often slid inside, but Cofield (who went to 'Skins for big bucks next year), Canty, Bernard and the two aforementioned are not swiss cheese; you had JPP and another guy at DE.
In 2014 our DL was paper thin and not very good, given our "defense" against the run was toward League bottom. If Bromley had anything, he would have played; more likely, he sucked when he did. Rookies with talent play; those who do not sit on the bench until it's too embarassing for Reese to keep them around any longer.
Cofield, Griffin, whatever the roster circumstances, stepped right in. Bromley, not so much. Bromley's presence on the roster should have next to zero impact on who the Giants take in this draft if they are drafting for talent and certainly should have no bearing on who they take at #9. Sorry to repeat what I said in the other thread.
Rookies with talent often take time to develop in the NFL. Some players drafted in the 5th, 6th, 7th round end up starters their first year when players drafted in the 1st or 2nd don't. Does that make them any less talented, despite the fact that they are faster or bigger?
Talent is only one aspect. Teams don't draft players and think things like if they don't shine in year 1, it's time to move on. Bromley is most definitely in the team's plans and your analysis is meaningless.
I think I missed where all the BBIers were saying that DT is not a need because we have Jay Bromley. People love to start threads and pretend that there's a majority of BBI making a statement when that couldn't be farther from the truth.
Bromley is an unknown. All we know is the team liked him enough to draft him high and probably feel that he will develop and see playing time this year.
that didn't seem to hold back the #1 and #2 picks (:
and the need at DL was only somewhat less desperate than that on the OL regarding Richburg
That's debatable. Injuries occurred at the WR position and the number 1 pick was one of those injuries. Hakeem Nicks started out the 2009 season as the 4th WR on the depth chart. JPP was behind Tollefson in 2010. Those guys were healthy but it took injuries to get them more involved into games. JPP and Nicks were playing ST their rookie year. And as far as Richburg, if Snee doesn't retire or Schwartz get hurt I not sure if Richburg plays that much.
Some people claim that TC plays rookies but they always fail to point out it is due to injuries. Chris Snee and Pugh are the only rookies that started game one in their rookie season. And we all remember what it took to get Pugh to be named a starter for game 1.
that didn't seem to hold back the #1 and #2 picks (:
and the need at DL was only somewhat less desperate than that on the OL regarding Richburg
They were less raw and weren't as buried on the depth chart. Beckham was the #3 to start and Richburg the #4 OG at worst. Jenkins was solid early in the year and there aren't a ton of snaps after him and Hankins were done. Plus Patterson played well in 2013 and (for some reason) they seemed to like Kuhn. Jenkins was the only DT to get hurt so it actually says something that Bromley finished as the #3 DT, granted in party because Patterson/Kuhn sucked.
As rookies, Joseph and Hankins both played and played pretty well down the stretch. Hank flashed more ability his rookie year but I remember watching you tube clips of Joseph's rookie season and there was a lot of video footage and he showed enough to warrant optimism for the 2011 season.
Bromley showed little but I don't think the giants expected much from him last year. At least I hope that's the case.
Hankins' rookie season graded out nearly as well as Joseph's productivity from that same 2013 season. Myself and a lot of others weren't worried at all about Hankins heading into 2014 it was the other DT spots that worried us.
Griffin played very well in his rookie season of 2000. He was used as a spy against mcnabb and cullpepper. He pretty much peaked that rookie year with NYG...
These comps with Linval over and over are totally off base if you make his "redshirt year" the standard practice for DTs or DL on this team. Look who Linval had ahead of him in his draft year:
95 Rocky Bernard DT
99 Chris Canty DT
96 Barry Cofield DT
91 Justin Tuck DE
71 Dave Tollefson DE
That's some pretty kickass talent, with Tuck in his prime.
I include Tuck and the valuable Tollefson because they often slid inside, but Cofield (who went to 'Skins for big bucks next year), Canty, Bernard and the two aforementioned are not swiss cheese; you had JPP and another guy at DE.
In 2014 our DL was paper thin and not very good, given our "defense" against the run was toward League bottom. If Bromley had anything, he would have played; more likely, he sucked when he did. Rookies with talent play; those who do not sit on the bench until it's too embarassing for Reese to keep them around any longer.
Cofield, Griffin, whatever the roster circumstances, stepped right in. Bromley, not so much. Bromley's presence on the roster should have next to zero impact on who the Giants take in this draft if they are drafting for talent and certainly should have no bearing on who they take at #9. Sorry to repeat what I said in the other thread. Thought Bromley was reach in the third round and nothing has changed that opinion so far.
The more pressing question at DT is whether Cullen Jenkins is done.
At the very least I'd take him back for the 4th DT role or possibly 3rd if bromley does in fact falter. But in no way do I want Jenkins listed as the starting DT heading into camp. We'd all be praying that bromley turns into a beast by September if that were to be the case.
here is where my positional analysis comes into play.
prior to the draft last year
I said that if we took a sexy skill player in the first round, such as a wide receiver, that the group would be less likely to put together good positional value for the rest of the draft.
that it would have a 'cascading effect' as the rounds go down.
now, the center richburg? has played out very well for a rookie, so that was good, however, and argument could be made that I was correct since the team lacked a balanced roster for 2014 and the wins/losses showed that clearly.
I don't think you go into round 3 expecting to find a rookie
'starting ' may no longer be the concept. it is - how much does the 3rd rounder contribute in limited or situational reps?
if bromley's calling card is his quick step coupled with some power (jay alford's calling card as well), then he had better come off the ball in synch with the OL, or, as someone mentioned above, his particular (some might say a short list of) skills will be of no use.
CBS had a big 3/4 DE, Ben Gardner as a UDFA prospect last year. He was drafted (in the 7th?) by The Cowboys. said to have had a very fast start in rookie camp, was injured early, so it remains to be seen.
there are tons of these guys.nose tackles, 3/4 DE's, all sorts of players.
"but we run a 4/3 under" (or 'over' or whatever the fuck)
"and we need a 3 technique" (or a '1 ' or whatever the fuck)
I would say- get the very best big defensive linesman available (which does -not- include SAM types) and let. spags. coach. his line .
if you are not even scouting college level 3/4 DE's nor big players considered 'nose types' nor 1s etc etc.
then that is as if the team is saying it is so damn 'settled in its system that skills and talent be dammed'...which would narrow your prospects aka your knowledge of the market.
RE: agreed, but there may have been better defensive linesmen
available, and / or bromley could possibly have been had as low as 5
Bromley wouldn't have lasted until the 5th round, regardless of what the conventional wisdom was prior to the draft. You can probably find my analysis of the 2014 draft with regard to DTs and the teams that drafted them in the archives. My conclusion was that if the FO was sold on Bromley, they were smart to draft him when they did. They were looking for a 3-tech, and they got one.
Here are the DTs taken from the third round on in 2014.
6 3 10 74 Jay Bromley Giants Syracuse
7 3 18 82 Will Sutton Bears Arizona State
8 3 19 83 Louis Nix Texans Notre Dame
9 3 21 85 Khyri Thornton Packers Southern Mississippi
10 4 7 107 Justin Ellis Raiders Louisiana Tech
11 4 12 112 DaQuan Jones Titans Penn State
12 4 34 134 Brent Urban Ravens Virginia
13 5 18 158 Caraun Reid Lions Princeton
14 5 25 165 Ryan Carrethers Chargers Arkansas State
15 5 32 172 Jimmy Staten Seahawks Middle Tennessee State
16 6 39 215 Daniel McCullers Steelers Tennessee
17 7 5 220 Shamar Stephen Vikings Connecticut
18 7 9 224 Beau Allen Eagles Wisconsin
19 7 36 251 Ken Bishop Cowboys Northern Illinois
Nobody in that group set the world on fire, although five or six of them showed enough enough to qualify as contributors. In general, the big-body, 0- and 1-technique DTs (Ellis/Stephen) seemed to crack the lineup more quickly, along with a few high-floor, "NFL-ready" types like Sutton and Jones. Bromley is a laggard, but I don't think that's a surprise. By all accounts, he was drafted for his ceiling, not his ability to contribute immediately. You can love that idea or hate it, but that's the Giants' MO.
RE: Here are the DTs taken from the third round on in 2014.
Nobody in that group set the world on fire, although five or six of them showed enough enough to qualify as contributors. In general, the big-body, 0- and 1-technique DTs (Ellis/Stephen) seemed to crack the lineup more quickly, along with a few high-floor, "NFL-ready" types like Sutton and Jones. Bromley is a laggard, but I don't think that's a surprise. By all accounts, he was drafted for his ceiling, not his ability to contribute immediately. You can love that idea or hate it, but that's the Giants' MO.
The idea made sense at the time since they expected at least 1 more good year and probably hoped for 2 more from Jenkins. I suspect the plan was for Bromley to be the 4th DT behind Jenkins/Patterson (and Hankins obviously) in 2014, then let Patterson leave this offseason while ramping Bromley up to ~25-30 snaps/game in 2015. Then have Bromley slide in as the starter in 2016.
Of course injury/decline impacted the effectiveness of that plan.
And weren't they grooming Alford for the same role when he blew out his knee? As far as I can tell, their isn't a big difference in D-line deployment between Spagnuolo and Fewell.
One thing that has definitely been consistent in the Giants' approach to the defensive line is that they like 'em big. If they had just wanted a proven penetrator in the third round, Sutton had a better resume for that role. At 6'1", and having played most of his college career under 280, he didn't fit the team's DT specs as well as Bromley. That doesn't mean the Giants didn't scout him, or that they wouldn't have drafted him if they thought he was special.
of the big LB crashing down t create a more 5 look, as well as in his willingness to use the 4 aces (not recommending that at the moment, but the 3/4 ends could be useful in this regard, inside or out )
also- the league is developing into more blended looks 3/4, 4/3 etc...and trends favor changes, such as with the 20 year 40lb increase in the size of OTs driving that in part.
I am fairly sure that bromley will be useful in some capacity.
but I am also fairly sure that teams that -plan- to run -only- a '4-3 under' or whatever you call it, a singular scheme, and draft accordingly - are missing out on some % of talent and flexibility once the games start.
this is more about having fun as a fan exploring all that than it is a knock on bromley.
The Giants have been looking for a bona fide 3-tech for years. That's why they drafted Jay Alford in 2007 and Marvin Austin in 2011. That's why they signed free agents like Rocky Bernard, Cullen Jenkins, and Mike Patterson. Sure, they appreciate versatility, and a guy like Hankins was touted as being able to play anywhere along the D-Line, but they went into the 2014 draft looking for their A-Gap Penetrator of the Future, and they believe they found him in Bromley. It's as simple as that.
Other than that game, I never saw him play, but Dorgan did and he had nothing but good things to say about him. There are few posters whose opinion I value more than Dorgan's. Also, while most pundits had Bromley going in the 4th or 5th round, the folks at DraftNasty (the one site I really enjoy) gave him a solid 3rd round grade, so I wasn't surprised when we drafted him there, unlike some other posters who are obsessed with Jerry "Reach."
The bottom line is we have to hope an off-season in the weight room coupled with some live reps will give him the tools he needs to learn Spags defense and win the starting job in year #2.
If he outright wins the job and is above average along with Hankins we are in good shape.
If Bromley doesn't step up and play well we may struggle again on the DL.
I still want DT Shelton with our first pick because in today's NFL lineman rotation and big beef on the goal line & 3rd and 1 are musts.
The bottom line is we have to hope an off-season in the weight room coupled with some live reps will give him the tools he needs to learn Spags defense and win the starting job in year #2.
If he outright wins the job and is above average along with Hankins we are in good shape.
If Bromley doesn't step up and play well we may struggle again on the DL.
I still want DT Shelton with our first pick because in today's NFL lineman rotation and big beef on the goal line & 3rd and 1 are musts.
one could easily use this same list as a way to question the strategy, since the sum of this groups production was not up to what was expected:
''Dude, stop trying to be too cool for the room.
Klaatu : 2/11/2015 12:58 pm : link : reply
The Giants have been looking for a bona fide 3-tech for years. That's why they drafted
Jay Alford (cut/let go) in 2007 and
Marvin Austin (let go/no production here) in 2011.
That's why they signed free agents like
Rocky Bernard (plugger, no rush) ,
Culen Jenkins (ok, good player, but being more than just a 3, a more versatile DT he proves the point in a different way ) ,
and Mike Patterson (meh, plugger, not much push or rush aside from pre-season).
Sure, they appreciate versatility, and a guy like Hankins was touted as being able to play anywhere along the D-Line, but they went into the 2014 draft looking for their A-Gap Penetrator of the Future, and they believe they found him in Bromley. It's as simple as that. ''
"Jenkins lacks ideal size and is on the downside of his career. In his prime, he was a solid two-way defensive tackle who could play the run and rush the passer. Versatile, he has experience as a defensive tackle and defensive end in the 4-3, and as a defensive end in the 3-4." (which we would all agree, having a young Jenk would be very helpful)
Which is what I was looking for last year in Brent Urban, taken far lower in the draft than Bromley (and promptly injured, hehe)
Here are the DTs taken from the third round on in 2014.
Big Blue Blogger : 2/11/2015 11:53 am : link : reply
6 3 10 74 Jay Bromley Giants Syracuse
7 3 18 82 Will Sutton Bears Arizona State
8 3 19 83 Louis Nix Texans Notre Dame
9 3 21 85 Khyri Thornton Packers Southern Mississippi
10 4 7 107 Justin Ellis Raiders Louisiana Tech
11 4 12 112 DaQuan Jones Titans Penn State
12 4 34 134 Brent Urban Ravens Virginia
13 5 18 158 Caraun Reid Lions Princeton
14 5 25 165 Ryan Carrethers Chargers Arkansas State
15 5 32 172 Jimmy Staten Seahawks Middle Tennessee State
16 6 39 215 Daniel McCullers Steelers Tennessee
17 7 5 220 Shamar Stephen Vikings Connecticut
18 7 9 224 Beau Allen Eagles Wisconsin
19 7 36 251 Ken Bishop Cowboys Northern Illinois
Rocky Bernard wasn't picked up to be a gap plugger.
looking to see if there is any other trend there, since Marvin Austin and Jay Alford also did very little here.
For example, some of the 3/4 ends might be able to be at the 3. And- if you watch the youtube (I know, haha, silly amateurs and all that) you might see all sorts of other aptitudes on the field in some of those guys, that the classic college 4/3 3's dont show on 'tape', since you are throwing a wider net, or because that other system demands players that can do a wider variety of tasks at their end than the 4/3 3's are asked to do in college?
in College had the type of pass rush impact/production as Bromley did his final year before declaring.
Bromley also accomplished this while being considered less of a finished product than other comparable DTs. I think this kid starts to flash this year and becomes a meaningful contributor on defense.
significant that you say that, because that was anything but apparent in his college "highlights" film posted on BBI
Inconsistencies in technique were very apparent on some plays due to 'rawness'. In others he dominated. Reese likely was impressed that a player who needed so much technique work could at times flash the way he did.
Add his character and desire to work , I still like the pick for mid round 3.
Linval Joseph did about as much as a rookie as Bromley. He was usually inactive and rarely played.
Jay Alford played a bit as a rookie and had that big sack in the Super Bowl, but he didn't have much of an impact other than that one play his rookie year. Then he got hurt.
Barry Cofield contributed about as much as LJ.
William Joseph never did much of anything.
I don't recall Cornelius Griffin playing much as a rookie, either, but that's a long time ago, I could be wrong.
I think the bottom line here is that rookie DTs don't play much. This is the year you would expect to see Bromley play and gauge what kind of player he'll be.
He looked to have good strength but when you're still in your stance and the OL is already engaged, you're done. It's definitely something that's correctable but you don't see that too often out of NFL DTs.
Griffin was a major contributor as a rookie too, though he didn't start.
Dig through BBI last off season and you'll see all the threads of BBIrs upset over LJ loss and questioning whether Hankens would amount to anything.
These comps with Linval over and over are totally off base if you make his "redshirt year" the standard practice for DTs or DL on this team. Look who Linval had ahead of him in his draft year:
95 Rocky Bernard DT
99 Chris Canty DT
96 Barry Cofield DT
91 Justin Tuck DE
71 Dave Tollefson DE
That's some pretty kickass talent, with Tuck in his prime.
I include Tuck and the valuable Tollefson because they often slid inside, but Cofield (who went to 'Skins for big bucks next year), Canty, Bernard and the two aforementioned are not swiss cheese; you had JPP and another guy at DE.
In 2014 our DL was paper thin and not very good, given our "defense" against the run was toward League bottom. If Bromley had anything, he would have played; more likely, he sucked when he did. Rookies with talent play; those who do not sit on the bench until it's too embarassing for Reese to keep them around any longer.
Cofield, Griffin, whatever the roster circumstances, stepped right in. Bromley, not so much. Bromley's presence on the roster should have next to zero impact on who the Giants take in this draft if they are drafting for talent and certainly should have no bearing on who they take at #9. Sorry to repeat what I said in the other thread.
These comps with Linval over and over are totally off base if you make his "redshirt year" the standard practice for DTs or DL on this team. Look who Linval had ahead of him in his draft year:
95 Rocky Bernard DT
99 Chris Canty DT
96 Barry Cofield DT
91 Justin Tuck DE
71 Dave Tollefson DE
That's some pretty kickass talent, with Tuck in his prime.
I include Tuck and the valuable Tollefson because they often slid inside, but Cofield (who went to 'Skins for big bucks next year), Canty, Bernard and the two aforementioned are not swiss cheese; you had JPP and another guy at DE.
In 2014 our DL was paper thin and not very good, given our "defense" against the run was toward League bottom. If Bromley had anything, he would have played; more likely, he sucked when he did. Rookies with talent play; those who do not sit on the bench until it's too embarassing for Reese to keep them around any longer.
Cofield, Griffin, whatever the roster circumstances, stepped right in. Bromley, not so much. Bromley's presence on the roster should have next to zero impact on who the Giants take in this draft if they are drafting for talent and certainly should have no bearing on who they take at #9. Sorry to repeat what I said in the other thread.
Part of that is because he started out 5th on the depth chart and with all the new CBA limits, it's hard to get enough practice reps to move up.
and the need at DL was only somewhat less desperate than that on the OL regarding Richburg
These comps with Linval over and over are totally off base if you make his "redshirt year" the standard practice for DTs or DL on this team. Look who Linval had ahead of him in his draft year:
95 Rocky Bernard DT
99 Chris Canty DT
96 Barry Cofield DT
91 Justin Tuck DE
71 Dave Tollefson DE
That's some pretty kickass talent, with Tuck in his prime.
I include Tuck and the valuable Tollefson because they often slid inside, but Cofield (who went to 'Skins for big bucks next year), Canty, Bernard and the two aforementioned are not swiss cheese; you had JPP and another guy at DE.
In 2014 our DL was paper thin and not very good, given our "defense" against the run was toward League bottom. If Bromley had anything, he would have played; more likely, he sucked when he did. Rookies with talent play; those who do not sit on the bench until it's too embarassing for Reese to keep them around any longer.
Cofield, Griffin, whatever the roster circumstances, stepped right in. Bromley, not so much. Bromley's presence on the roster should have next to zero impact on who the Giants take in this draft if they are drafting for talent and certainly should have no bearing on who they take at #9. Sorry to repeat what I said in the other thread.
Rookies with talent often take time to develop in the NFL. Some players drafted in the 5th, 6th, 7th round end up starters their first year when players drafted in the 1st or 2nd don't. Does that make them any less talented, despite the fact that they are faster or bigger?
Talent is only one aspect. Teams don't draft players and think things like if they don't shine in year 1, it's time to move on. Bromley is most definitely in the team's plans and your analysis is meaningless.
Bromley is an unknown. All we know is the team liked him enough to draft him high and probably feel that he will develop and see playing time this year.
and the need at DL was only somewhat less desperate than that on the OL regarding Richburg
That's debatable. Injuries occurred at the WR position and the number 1 pick was one of those injuries. Hakeem Nicks started out the 2009 season as the 4th WR on the depth chart. JPP was behind Tollefson in 2010. Those guys were healthy but it took injuries to get them more involved into games. JPP and Nicks were playing ST their rookie year. And as far as Richburg, if Snee doesn't retire or Schwartz get hurt I not sure if Richburg plays that much.
Some people claim that TC plays rookies but they always fail to point out it is due to injuries. Chris Snee and Pugh are the only rookies that started game one in their rookie season. And we all remember what it took to get Pugh to be named a starter for game 1.
He plays rookies that are ready to play. David Wilson also played as a rookie.
and the need at DL was only somewhat less desperate than that on the OL regarding Richburg
They were less raw and weren't as buried on the depth chart. Beckham was the #3 to start and Richburg the #4 OG at worst. Jenkins was solid early in the year and there aren't a ton of snaps after him and Hankins were done. Plus Patterson played well in 2013 and (for some reason) they seemed to like Kuhn. Jenkins was the only DT to get hurt so it actually says something that Bromley finished as the #3 DT, granted in party because Patterson/Kuhn sucked.
Bromley showed little but I don't think the giants expected much from him last year. At least I hope that's the case.
Hankins' rookie season graded out nearly as well as Joseph's productivity from that same 2013 season. Myself and a lot of others weren't worried at all about Hankins heading into 2014 it was the other DT spots that worried us.
Griffin played very well in his rookie season of 2000. He was used as a spy against mcnabb and cullpepper. He pretty much peaked that rookie year with NYG...
95 Rocky Bernard DT
99 Chris Canty DT
96 Barry Cofield DT
91 Justin Tuck DE
71 Dave Tollefson DE
That's some pretty kickass talent, with Tuck in his prime.
I include Tuck and the valuable Tollefson because they often slid inside, but Cofield (who went to 'Skins for big bucks next year), Canty, Bernard and the two aforementioned are not swiss cheese; you had JPP and another guy at DE.
In 2014 our DL was paper thin and not very good, given our "defense" against the run was toward League bottom. If Bromley had anything, he would have played; more likely, he sucked when he did. Rookies with talent play; those who do not sit on the bench until it's too embarassing for Reese to keep them around any longer.
Cofield, Griffin, whatever the roster circumstances, stepped right in. Bromley, not so much. Bromley's presence on the roster should have next to zero impact on who the Giants take in this draft if they are drafting for talent and certainly should have no bearing on who they take at #9. Sorry to repeat what I said in the other thread. Thought Bromley was reach in the third round and nothing has changed that opinion so far.
Griffin was a major contributor as a rookie too, though he didn't start.
prior to the draft last year
I said that if we took a sexy skill player in the first round, such as a wide receiver, that the group would be less likely to put together good positional value for the rest of the draft.
that it would have a 'cascading effect' as the rounds go down.
now, the center richburg? has played out very well for a rookie, so that was good, however, and argument could be made that I was correct since the team lacked a balanced roster for 2014 and the wins/losses showed that clearly.
I see no problem with a 3rd round pick being slowly integrated into the team as a rookie. I think that's how it is for most teams.
if bromley's calling card is his quick step coupled with some power (jay alford's calling card as well), then he had better come off the ball in synch with the OL, or, as someone mentioned above, his particular (some might say a short list of) skills will be of no use.
CBS had a big 3/4 DE, Ben Gardner as a UDFA prospect last year. He was drafted (in the 7th?) by The Cowboys. said to have had a very fast start in rookie camp, was injured early, so it remains to be seen.
there are tons of these guys.nose tackles, 3/4 DE's, all sorts of players.
"and we need a 3 technique" (or a '1 ' or whatever the fuck)
I would say- get the very best big defensive linesman available (which does -not- include SAM types) and let. spags. coach. his line .
if you are not even scouting college level 3/4 DE's nor big players considered 'nose types' nor 1s etc etc.
then that is as if the team is saying it is so damn 'settled in its system that skills and talent be dammed'...which would narrow your prospects aka your knowledge of the market.
Bromley wouldn't have lasted until the 5th round, regardless of what the conventional wisdom was prior to the draft. You can probably find my analysis of the 2014 draft with regard to DTs and the teams that drafted them in the archives. My conclusion was that if the FO was sold on Bromley, they were smart to draft him when they did. They were looking for a 3-tech, and they got one.
7 3 18 82 Will Sutton Bears Arizona State
8 3 19 83 Louis Nix Texans Notre Dame
9 3 21 85 Khyri Thornton Packers Southern Mississippi
10 4 7 107 Justin Ellis Raiders Louisiana Tech
11 4 12 112 DaQuan Jones Titans Penn State
12 4 34 134 Brent Urban Ravens Virginia
13 5 18 158 Caraun Reid Lions Princeton
14 5 25 165 Ryan Carrethers Chargers Arkansas State
15 5 32 172 Jimmy Staten Seahawks Middle Tennessee State
16 6 39 215 Daniel McCullers Steelers Tennessee
17 7 5 220 Shamar Stephen Vikings Connecticut
18 7 9 224 Beau Allen Eagles Wisconsin
19 7 36 251 Ken Bishop Cowboys Northern Illinois
Nobody in that group set the world on fire, although five or six of them showed enough enough to qualify as contributors. In general, the big-body, 0- and 1-technique DTs (Ellis/Stephen) seemed to crack the lineup more quickly, along with a few high-floor, "NFL-ready" types like Sutton and Jones. Bromley is a laggard, but I don't think that's a surprise. By all accounts, he was drafted for his ceiling, not his ability to contribute immediately. You can love that idea or hate it, but that's the Giants' MO.
Nobody in that group set the world on fire, although five or six of them showed enough enough to qualify as contributors. In general, the big-body, 0- and 1-technique DTs (Ellis/Stephen) seemed to crack the lineup more quickly, along with a few high-floor, "NFL-ready" types like Sutton and Jones. Bromley is a laggard, but I don't think that's a surprise. By all accounts, he was drafted for his ceiling, not his ability to contribute immediately. You can love that idea or hate it, but that's the Giants' MO.
The idea made sense at the time since they expected at least 1 more good year and probably hoped for 2 more from Jenkins. I suspect the plan was for Bromley to be the 4th DT behind Jenkins/Patterson (and Hankins obviously) in 2014, then let Patterson leave this offseason while ramping Bromley up to ~25-30 snaps/game in 2015. Then have Bromley slide in as the starter in 2016.
Of course injury/decline impacted the effectiveness of that plan.
that they wanted to relegate hank to the other spot, that there would be no coaching changes, and
'all they needed was a single piece of a singular puzzle', that is all fine.
IF they had all those assumptions
-and -
did not even bother to scout other types of defensive linesmen, that seems a bit narrow minded.
with the advent of Spags being back, I think it is fair to now expect a broader view and a much wider scouting net.
having said that, Bromley could certainly improve his play and Spags can certainly find a way to use a pure 3 tech if that is what he is.
Second, that under TC, we win the SB every 4 years...
Both of those beliefs will be dashed this upcoming season....
One thing that has definitely been consistent in the Giants' approach to the defensive line is that they like 'em big. If they had just wanted a proven penetrator in the third round, Sutton had a better resume for that role. At 6'1", and having played most of his college career under 280, he didn't fit the team's DT specs as well as Bromley. That doesn't mean the Giants didn't scout him, or that they wouldn't have drafted him if they thought he was special.
also- the league is developing into more blended looks 3/4, 4/3 etc...and trends favor changes, such as with the 20 year 40lb increase in the size of OTs driving that in part.
I am fairly sure that bromley will be useful in some capacity.
but I am also fairly sure that teams that -plan- to run -only- a '4-3 under' or whatever you call it, a singular scheme, and draft accordingly - are missing out on some % of talent and flexibility once the games start.
this is more about having fun as a fan exploring all that than it is a knock on bromley.
If he outright wins the job and is above average along with Hankins we are in good shape.
If Bromley doesn't step up and play well we may struggle again on the DL.
I still want DT Shelton with our first pick because in today's NFL lineman rotation and big beef on the goal line & 3rd and 1 are musts.
If he outright wins the job and is above average along with Hankins we are in good shape.
If Bromley doesn't step up and play well we may struggle again on the DL.
I still want DT Shelton with our first pick because in today's NFL lineman rotation and big beef on the goal line & 3rd and 1 are musts.
''Dude, stop trying to be too cool for the room.
Klaatu : 2/11/2015 12:58 pm : link : reply
The Giants have been looking for a bona fide 3-tech for years. That's why they drafted
Jay Alford (cut/let go) in 2007 and
Marvin Austin (let go/no production here) in 2011.
That's why they signed free agents like
Rocky Bernard (plugger, no rush) ,
Culen Jenkins (ok, good player, but being more than just a 3, a more versatile DT he proves the point in a different way ) ,
and Mike Patterson (meh, plugger, not much push or rush aside from pre-season).
Sure, they appreciate versatility, and a guy like Hankins was touted as being able to play anywhere along the D-Line, but they went into the 2014 draft looking for their A-Gap Penetrator of the Future, and they believe they found him in Bromley. It's as simple as that. ''
Which is what I was looking for last year in Brent Urban, taken far lower in the draft than Bromley (and promptly injured, hehe)
Here are the DTs taken from the third round on in 2014.
Big Blue Blogger : 2/11/2015 11:53 am : link : reply
6 3 10 74 Jay Bromley Giants Syracuse
7 3 18 82 Will Sutton Bears Arizona State
8 3 19 83 Louis Nix Texans Notre Dame
9 3 21 85 Khyri Thornton Packers Southern Mississippi
10 4 7 107 Justin Ellis Raiders Louisiana Tech
11 4 12 112 DaQuan Jones Titans Penn State
12 4 34 134 Brent Urban Ravens Virginia
13 5 18 158 Caraun Reid Lions Princeton
14 5 25 165 Ryan Carrethers Chargers Arkansas State
15 5 32 172 Jimmy Staten Seahawks Middle Tennessee State
16 6 39 215 Daniel McCullers Steelers Tennessee
17 7 5 220 Shamar Stephen Vikings Connecticut
18 7 9 224 Beau Allen Eagles Wisconsin
19 7 36 251 Ken Bishop Cowboys Northern Illinois
For example, some of the 3/4 ends might be able to be at the 3. And- if you watch the youtube (I know, haha, silly amateurs and all that) you might see all sorts of other aptitudes on the field in some of those guys, that the classic college 4/3 3's dont show on 'tape', since you are throwing a wider net, or because that other system demands players that can do a wider variety of tasks at their end than the 4/3 3's are asked to do in college?
Bromley also accomplished this while being considered less of a finished product than other comparable DTs. I think this kid starts to flash this year and becomes a meaningful contributor on defense.
Inconsistencies in technique were very apparent on some plays due to 'rawness'. In others he dominated. Reese likely was impressed that a player who needed so much technique work could at times flash the way he did.
Add his character and desire to work , I still like the pick for mid round 3.