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The argument for OLB Shaq Thompson

LI NHB : 2/13/2015 1:18 pm
I understand that the masses here at BBI are looking to bolster the OL with the 9th pick, but I think a few factors have me believing the Giants will look a different direction in RD 1.

1. The top-end OL talent in this year's draft does not seem to warrant a Top-10 pick. Admittedly I haven't scoured film on all the top dogs, but outside of maybe Scherff I don't see how you can rationalize this crop of OL at #9.

2. When discussing last year's selection of Odell Beckham Jr., the FO made a comment that suggested they choose playmaker over OL every time in RD 1, assuming each player is similarly valued. Solid OL can be found outside the 1st and I think the Giants showed that with the Richburg selection. Frankly, I don't see a need to use a Top-10 pick on a guy who likely projects as a guard, when solid OL value should be available in RD 2.

3. We have areas of need outside of OL that have long been neglected. We have a clear need to improve the talent at the LB and S positions as well as improving depth along the interior DL. Rolle could be gone and even if he stays, there is a clear need for help there.

---

My Pick: OLD Shaq Thompson

Rationale: I know, I know…we don't draft LBs in RD 1. Save it.

Shaq would immediately provide a much need boost in athleticism and ferocity to our much maligned LB corp. He has true sideline-to-sideline speed and offers perhaps the best coverage skills that we have seen out of a LB prospect in years. The only true knock on Shaq is his size. His weight is low, which has some scouts clamoring that he should make the switch to safety. He has maintained that his intention is to play LB and personally, I think that is where he belongs. He can add some weight with a proper training program and can finally give the Giants a true playmaker at LB. His dynamic abilities make the selection similar to a JPP type of pick. He comes with risk, but his ceiling is astronomical.







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Bold Ruler  
JonC : 2/13/2015 1:20 pm : link
you know what to do ...
I would like this pick  
ChemDawg1990 : 2/13/2015 1:22 pm : link
In Reese I trust
I'm a big fan of him  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 2/13/2015 1:23 pm : link
but not at #9.

But I'm praying that he doesn't land in the NFC East. He's got star potential and I don't want to see him twice a year.
Hes being  
area junc : 2/13/2015 1:23 pm : link
projected to S
i have no problem what position they draft  
GiantsFan84 : 2/13/2015 1:24 pm : link
I still think this team is another year away from really being able to challenge for a super bowl and that this year is still a year in the rebuild process.

This team has a lot of holes still and they need to draft good players who will fill them and fill them well. They just can't miss on their picks this year.

My only issue would be taking Shaq at 9. I think that's early for him. If they can trade down and pick him later in Rd 1 I'd be perfectly fine with that.
Not sure  
PaulN : 2/13/2015 1:26 pm : link
When the Giants hint at playmaker that they consider a linebacker in that mode. If he is not a double digit sack player, i highly doubt they would even consider this as the pick at 9.
RE: Hes being  
LI NHB : 2/13/2015 1:27 pm : link
In comment 12135337 area junc said:
Quote:
projected to S


I am aware of this and said so in my rationale. Just because Mike Mayock thinks he is a safety, doesn't mean that he'll be a safety. I think the Combine will be a huge thing for Shaq. His weight ad strength measurables will be a big determining factor in his ability to play LB. He'll run very well and I see him shooting up draft boards after showcasing that.
What I am hoping  
PaulN : 2/13/2015 1:31 pm : link
Is that the Giants add a free agent like Franklin, who can play both guard and tackle at a high level. The with the addition of him and a healthy Schwatz returning, we really have a starting 5, then just add the best player at #9. The worst thing you can do is target a position with the #9 pick.
You don't have to sell me  
jeff57 : 2/13/2015 1:32 pm : link
But I see little chance of the Giants taking him at 9.
RE: What I am hoping  
LI NHB : 2/13/2015 1:36 pm : link
In comment 12135350 PaulN said:
Quote:
Is that the Giants add a free agent like Franklin, who can play both guard and tackle at a high level. The with the addition of him and a healthy Schwatz returning, we really have a starting 5, then just add the best player at #9. The worst thing you can do is target a position with the #9 pick.


This is very much aligned with my thoughts. I see very few players in this draft with the physical abilities and upside that Shaq has. Rather than take a "high floor" player, I'd rather use a Top-10 pick on a potential superstar.
I like him a lot also  
Big Rick in FL : 2/13/2015 1:38 pm : link
I did want him at 9 until I started watching guys like Dante Fowler Jr, Danny Shelton, Kevin White. We can most likely get one of those players at 9. Then turn around and draft a LB like Eric Kendricks, Paul Dawson, Denzel Perryman at 40. Who I think are all possibly better then Shaq.

If we can get Dante Fowler Jr at 9 and Kendricks at 40 our front 7 would go from a weakness to a strength very very quickly.
I've seen a little of Thompson...  
Dunedin81 : 2/13/2015 1:39 pm : link
crazy athleticism, not really a defined role or position going forward, I'm not sure that's a gamble you take with the 9th pick but Reese has a pretty good track record with high picks and if he decides that a potential impact defender is better than a safer pick like a red-chip lineman I'll be fine with the pick.
It is easy to play LB  
robbieballs2003 : 2/13/2015 1:40 pm : link
when you have Shelton in front of you.
He's not an NFL caliber OLB  
sjnyfan : 2/13/2015 2:03 pm : link
He flies all over the field but is more of a chase LB at best that doesn't take on blockers well and isn't very effective when asked to rush the passer either. I think even Washington started to realize that. In their bowl game, watch how far they have him away from the LOS on most plays. With that said, I agree with Mayock and others that say he's a safety. I'd take him at safety over Collins. Though he's not the best tackler, he's better than Collins and he does well covering the middle of the field, especially when the ball is in the air. The success of big safeties like Kam Chancellor and George Iloka will help his case too.
The guys 220# soaking wet  
area junc : 2/13/2015 2:04 pm : link
He isnt playing LB in the NFL.
Thompson  
stretch234 : 2/13/2015 2:05 pm : link
Pro scouts do not deny his athletic ability. They doubt he is big enough for LB. He weighed 219lbs when scouts went to see him in November. Does he really have a position in the NFL

I would rather have Shelton
I think he would be a great pick...  
Milton : 2/13/2015 2:10 pm : link
...if he is still available in the third round. As a first round pick, no fucking thank you!
sny  
JonC : 2/13/2015 2:11 pm : link
You saw what I saw, he's probably a strong safety in the NFL.
he needs to get stronger at the POA  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 2/13/2015 2:11 pm : link
but watch the way he hits. He knows how to translate speed into power and I absolutely think he can play OLB in the NFL if he puts on 10-15 lbs.
Seems like a rich mans Sean Witherspoon  
ChemDawg1990 : 2/13/2015 2:14 pm : link
.
It's not always a matter of just gaining weight  
JonC : 2/13/2015 2:16 pm : link
LBs tend to be thicker framed, more powerful, naturally. If you see a 240-250 LB and a 220 S up close, it's really obvious which is built for which position.

It's not to say he definitively can't do it, but a 220 lb college safety typically doesn't move to LB in the NFL.
Thomas Davis made the move from S to LB pretty well at 220  
ChemDawg1990 : 2/13/2015 2:17 pm : link
Until his knee gave out
well we'll see at the combine and pro days  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 2/13/2015 2:21 pm : link
he's a guy who has a ridiculous range of where he could end up in the draft.
got it backwards/frames  
area junc : 2/13/2015 2:25 pm : link
he's a college OLB/RB who will have to convert to S in the NFL. he's a mesomorph where most linebackers are endomorphs. it isn't just mayock and some scouts, it's the reality of the NFL. agree w/milton, he becomes interesting 3rd round
Undersized for linebacker, but a sick athlete.  
81_Great_Dane : 2/13/2015 2:34 pm : link
Actually could be an impact player as a LB/S hybrid, but not a guy you draft at #9. If he's still on the board at #40, yeah, you might pounce then.
I'm Still Hoping One Of The QBs  
Trainmaster : 2/13/2015 2:34 pm : link
drops and the Giants can get some value trading back.

Only based on what I've read on BBI, Shelton or Peat seem like the likely picks if the Giants can't move back off the #9 pick.
No  
AcidTest : 2/13/2015 2:52 pm : link
way at #9, and I'm not even sure I'd take him at #40, although he'll almost certainly be gone by then.

What is his position? As others have said, he isn't big enough to play LB in the NFL, at least not in a 4-3. So he's a safety, but he didn't do that in college. So we're going to use the #9 pick on a player who has to switch to a position he didn't play in college?

Fantastic athleticism, but way too much of a risk at #9.
And by the way:  
81_Great_Dane : 2/13/2015 2:57 pm : link
Yeah, he might turn out to be a star linebacker despite being small for the position. Sam Mills played 12 years in the league at 5'-9" But you can't make that bet at #9 overall. Nor can you use that high a pick to bet that a guy will make a successful transition to a position he's never played.

It's been too long...  
Ty_1984 : 2/13/2015 2:58 pm : link
Since we've had a truly versatile playmaker on our D: A LB or Safety that can cover TE's and RB's but can also make tackles sideline-to-sideline. I've noticed our decision makers focus too much on drafting players that fit the Giants mold and are tall enough and heavy enough to qualify at certain positions. While sometimes this mindset makes sense, I think it also handcuffs us. We are often blind to potential stars and difference-makers who are a bit undersized.

I like that we bucked the trend last year with OBJ and it obviously paid dividends. Perhaps that will encourage us to keep an open mind when it comes to size and shape and allow us to recognize potential top-tier talent anywhere.

I'm all for some progressive thinking and taking a chance on a guy with an incredibly-high ceiling, rather than playing it safe.
The likely first pick options  
Reale01 : 2/13/2015 3:05 pm : link
I am not a film guy so I go by what I read. This is what I have heard our options are likely to be with #9.

The best or #2 OL: Peat, Collins, Flowers, Scherff seem to be the names I hear most.

The 2nd best WR: Cooper, White if the Giants think they are really special.

The 2 or third best DT - Shelton

Possibly a DE slips, but not likely: Ray/Gregory

It does not seem like there are any LB, RB, S, TE,or CB will have value at 9.

I think the pick will be Shelton or OL depending on
1. How they rank and 2 Who they can get later.

Hoping we go Shelton thinking we can get a mauling RT - Guard type in round two.

Like to see us sign 4 starters in FA two FA Safeties, 1 FA LB, 1 FA OL.

Also, keep JPP, maybe Rolle.
Thompson's not a bad player.  
Ira : 2/13/2015 3:15 pm : link
The lb I like better who may be there at 40 is Paul Dawson. He has a nose for the ball that reminds me a little of Kuechly.
I agree with Great Dane  
beatrixkiddo : 2/13/2015 3:25 pm : link
he very well could be used as a OLB/S hybrid with a creative defensive coordinator (spags). Given the lack of true blue chippers in the top 10, I don't think it would be that far of a reach. Shaq is a playmaker wherever he is put on the field. If the Giants feel they can utilize him enough, than I'm for it.

He did play with a great defensive cast around him, and some others did make some good points about him struggling with disengaging which bares consideration. He is a bit lite for a full time LB, but I think he could be effective as a S/LB hybrid type player. I'm not too sure there are many other game changing defensive players that will be there around our 1st pick, other than him and barring anyone else falling in the draft, i think its a toss up with shaq, dupree, and shelton.
would he be a better WLB than J. Williams?  
Rjanyg : 2/13/2015 4:37 pm : link
Would he be better than McClain? I think so. Nice player but I would rather have Shelton in round 1 and get Perryman with our 2nd rounder. That dude is a thumper!!
RE: he needs to get stronger at the POA  
OC2.0 : 2/13/2015 5:38 pm : link
In comment 12135452 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
but watch the way he hits. He knows how to translate speed into power and I absolutely think he can play OLB in the NFL if he puts on 10-15 lbs.


Yep. I might add Armstead wasn't a monster & we all saw how that turned out.
RE: RE: he needs to get stronger at the POA  
Milton : 2/13/2015 8:32 pm : link
In comment 12135803 OC2.0 said:
Quote:
I might add Armstead wasn't a monster & we all saw how that turned out.
Except Armstead was an 8th round pick and I don't see Thompson lasting until the 8th round.
Armstead  
stretch234 : 2/13/2015 8:58 pm : link
There should be zero comparisons to Armstead. He was the No 1 rated LB coming out of HS. The only reason he fell where he did was his knee injury and how teams thought his quickness was gone.

Thompson is no where close to that level as a LB. His highlight reel looks better as a RB than LB.
Won't happen.  
CT Charlie : 2/13/2015 9:25 pm : link
We won't gamble at #9.
Shaq appears to be about the same size as Jesse Armstead was  
Ivan15 : 2/13/2015 9:30 pm : link
Armstead dropped to 8th round pick due to serious leg injury. If Shaq turns out as good as Jesse, would he be worth the #9 pick?

If he fits the defense that the Giants expect to play, I would say "Yes".

By the way, using Richburg as an example of what the Giants can expect if they wait until Round 2 to draft an O-lineman is not favorable. Although Richburg performed better than most Giants second round picks, I think he underachieved compared to other second round O-linemen around the league.
I'd rather see if we can pick up  
chris r : 2/13/2015 9:31 pm : link
Weatherspoon on the cheap coming off that injury.
I look at it as,  
barens : 2/13/2015 9:45 pm : link
if the Giants feel he's a safety, I'd be all for the pick, but as a linebacker, he's just too high a pick. He has shown that he could be a play maker in college, but as a linebacker, he had some inconsistencies.
RE: Shaq appears to be about the same size as Jesse Armstead was  
blueblood : 2/13/2015 9:56 pm : link
In comment 12135956 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
Armstead dropped to 8th round pick due to serious leg injury. If Shaq turns out as good as Jesse, would he be worth the #9 pick?

If he fits the defense that the Giants expect to play, I would say "Yes".

By the way, using Richburg as an example of what the Giants can expect if they wait until Round 2 to draft an O-lineman is not favorable. Although Richburg performed better than most Giants second round picks, I think he underachieved compared to other second round O-linemen around the league.


Jesse Armstead without a serious leg injury playing his very best would not have been a #9 overall pick.

Richburg performed well playing out of his natural position of Center to play at Guard..
i dont get it  
NYG4246 : 2/16/2015 4:41 pm : link
this team needs to build an o-line. if they dont were looking at a 6-7 win season. again. the fact that there are a lot of good linemen does not mean you omit taking the cream of the crop bc there is a flashier guy out there...take OL at #9 then take another one or even two after that. if its chuck full of linemen then we should take full advantage of that
UFA before draft  
JonC : 2/16/2015 6:09 pm : link
fills urgent needs.
It's not easy for an organization to pull the trigger...  
Big Blue Blogger : 2/16/2015 6:48 pm : link
...on a pick like Thompson. It helps to have a DC who wields a lot of clout, who stands up and says, "This kid is a difference-maker, and I'll tweak the system to maximize his talents." I think there was some of that in Pittsburgh's selection of Ryan Shazier; but he was bigger than Thompson, the Steelers were picking 15th, and Dick LeBeau still enjoyed legendary status.

Thompson's highlight reel is a head-turner. I think he'll be an exciting player to watch at the next level. It's just hard to imagine the Giants rolling that particular set of dice in their current situation.
OLB  
Jersey55 : 2/17/2015 11:14 am : link
I'm in the camp of those who feel that a round one section is for adding playmaker...
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