Graziano Mailbag: Giants feel Donnell has star potential

as out go to TE..I look forward to his blocking improving..

It isn't how your career starts but how it looks during its peak. Donnell doesn't jump off the screen in my view but wtf do I know. I always saw him as a decent receiving TE. He certainly has the size and hops... But he doesn't seem like a guy that will make the amazing catch or a bring that yac ability. That to me is a star TE. He's young tho, if he works hard you never know..

and to block. Would be very surprised if they don't try to find an upgrade.

He made lots of great catches but also dropped some and fumbled. I think some of his issues are instinctive and will take lots of work to fix but he's got the potential. I think they will definitely add some competition for him.

we need to see continual progression from him. if he continues to improve then i'm fine with him as the starter.

Improvement. That the coaches see that he has a superb work ethic. Good news.

jumping, rolling , falling on your head and fumbling

He's a guy with huge upside potential, and unlike other recent young Giants players, he's not completely raw. His skillset exists, it just needs to be refined through coaching and persistence.

When you consider his size. there is a VERY short list of TEs in this league that can do what Donnell can. I would even say the potential upside here is top 5 in the league.

Before we get ahead of ourselves though, he needs to show progression as a blocker, route runner, and after the catch. If NYG wants to go in to 2015 with their current TE group, I am OK with that. But if a great value falls to them in the draft, they should take it

As our starter. Yes, he needs to become a better blocker but going from 3 catches in 2013 to 66 catches this past year is a huge jump. Maybe we do have a star in the making. Im willing to be patient and see how he progresses in the next couple years.

In Donnell's case, I can see some basis for optimism. The big problem last year seemed to be that he didn't anticipate defenders going after the ball post-catch. That kind of awareness seems like something that comes with experience. For career receivers, it's second nature. Donnell had caught so few balls in actual games before 2014 that the chaos after the catch was new for him.

I'm not so sure about blocking, though. Bad blocking TEs tend to remain bad blocking TEs. Maybe he just needs reps, but he sure looked like a plain old bad blocking TE.

Here is what you have to do to be a star TE:

1. Catch a bunch of passes. Okay he did that. But if that's ALL you can do, you better catch a lot more than you did last year.
2. Make big plays under pressure. Mr. Clutch he's not
3. Be the go to guy when the team needs a first down. Not really.
4. Be a threat to catch first down yardage or TDs if not covered closely. Make them cover you and thus, open up the WRs. Nope
5. Block and open holes for crucial running plays and give the QB a chance to pass on long yardage plays. Not a star there either.
6. YAC. Yuk, Yuk, and Yuk!

Sorry Charlie! You've got a ways to go before reaching stardom in the NFL.

He had a very poor rating from PFF.

Also. After his initial fast start, defenses started jamming him, quite successfully, at the los. He was all too often taken right out of the play. He said this as well.

He's got a lot to work on.

but he keeps us from reaching in the draft or paying for a TE in free agency. Perfectly happy with him.

total 63 catches 36 for first downs

... with 48 first downs. Rob Gronkowski caught 82, with 60 first downs. Anything over 70% FDs is crazy good, but a quality receiving TE really should be over 60%. Donnell's 57% is kind of crappy. Admittedly, the Giants were in a lot of long-yardage situations last year.

In comment 12136420 Big Blue Blogger said:

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... with 48 first downs. Rob Gronkowski caught 82, with 60 first downs. Anything over 70% FDs is crazy good, but a quality receiving TE really should be over 60%. Donnell's 57% is kind of crappy. Admittedly, the Giants were in a lot of long-yardage situations last year.

Come on that's not fair comparing him to the 2 best TEs in the league. I'd say 57% in his first full time season is a solid start.

I'm fine with Donnell as the starter. One of the things lacking in the run game last year was a TE able to help out in a substantial way blocking, and that would go a long way towards covering up some of the shortcomings on the OL.

But NEEDS to improve

Ball security
Overall Blocking
Yac
Physicality

doesn't mean diddly if he can't catch the ball 9 times out of 10 and make decent blocks

With above par speed for his size, but lacks route running and a mean streak

He has a lot of positive things going on. Size and a nice catching radius. He can also move pretty well to separate.

I'm good with Donnell as the #1 TE next year. He'll be a good player for us at a bargain price. It allows us to use the FA money and draft picks to fill other holes.

Maxx

i do not care for donnell but the team feels he had a good 1st year and expect a big jump this season. big bang for buck

for me he plays too soft and his blocking sucks but eli in particular really likes him

Jordan Cameron here. Two tight end offense would give Eli even more weapons

Given Cameron's concussion issues, if he came here for the vet min and was our #2 I would be all in for that scenario given we have a strong talent at #3 in case or even a fells type player who is poor but well rounded. Like the pascoes of the world

again are far too critical, and forget that Donnell was a UDFA QB from Grambling State who made a late position switch to TE. His blocking not surprisingly is therefore lacking. He is not anywhere near a complete player, and may never be, but my guess is that we see a lot of improvement this year. He seems to have the right attitude and commitment.

But I also don't understand it. Our best runs last year came when we spread teams out. If we truly want to pound the ball then put in an extra OL. I forgot what game it was but we went with a tight personnel and Jenning got stuffed multiple times (either two or three times) from the same formation. On the final try we spread the defense out and Jennings walked into the end zone. When Donnell is on the field then we can adjust to what the defense is doing. If they go with a base defense then we spread them out and make the LBs cover more ground and widen them out. If they go with a nickel defense then we now have Donnell blocking against a safety or corner. We don't need to be traditional. Yes, it would be nice to have players that can do it all but if not then you have to take advantage of a player's strength and that is his receiving ability slash height. Be flexible with the playcalling if your player's talent isn't flexible.

This is the same old shit from the Giants.Took us 3 years to find out Jacquian Williams didn't like to tackle,and we still kept him another year.

As this offense improves, Donnell's life will get easier.

In comment 12136513 ghost718 said:

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This is the same old shit from the Giants.Took us 3 years to find out Jacquian Williams didn't like to tackle,and we still kept him another year.

Except the giants did try to upgrade the LB position while Williams struggled. They brought in Beason, McClain and kennard.

Just because they failed to upgrade a position doesn't mean they didn't try. Same thing apples to the OL.

on decisions that might not of panned out in the past. Use a blanket judgement model instead of individual case by case

he doesn't have the speed to contort defenses the way most elite receiving TEs do today, and he's not a 2-way TE because he can't block. The lack of speed and blocking are tough for him to overcome imo.

That being said he's still a legitimate RZ threat because of his size and catch radius. Eli's a guy that loves big targets and LD is a BIG target. I don't see him as a star and I think we could definitely use an upgrade at the position, but he's a capable lower-tier starting TE on his RZ prowess alone. He's no bum like Myers.

In comment 12136541 djm said:

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Except the giants did try to upgrade the LB position while Williams struggled. They brought in Beason, McClain and kennard. Just because they failed to upgrade a position doesn't mean they didn't try. Same thing apples to the OL.

I don't think those moves had much to do with Williams,it's just there philosophy when it comes to the position.All you have to do is listen to a few Reese interviews and hear "Who were the linebackers in 2007". That should tell you all you need to know.

for a guy with three catches in his career. He didn't get all the reps with the 1's last offseason. He will this year. He's a great forth option in the passing offense.

.

But he probably will improve in passing issues like beating the press, fumbling and route running.

He's not the quickest guy and he'll probably never be a big play TE but I do think he brings something to the table with his size and athleticism. He can be a good possession/receiving TE who can move the chains. It's good to have a guy like that.

He's also going to get better so I'm looking forward to seeing his progression.

felt that from the preseason on. Jerry Reese did it again.

as more of a complementary tight end (2nd T.E. in). I still think we have room for a stud tight end if we get lucky in the draft. Larry Donnell can catch several TD passes off the bench for our next Super Bowl champions.

the improvement that Donnell made over the past year. He went from 3 catches to 66 and he made several highlight reel catches. His blocking is still a work in progress and he may never be a great blocker but he should improve with another offseason in the strength and conditioning program. I agree that the Giants do need to add a good blocking TE to the mix. I was really impressed with Fells last year also and I would like to see him brought back as the #2 or #3 TE.

In comment 12136380 Marty in Albany said:

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Here is what you have to do to be a star TE: 1. Catch a bunch of passes. Okay he did that. But if that's ALL you can do, you better catch a lot more than you did last year. 2. Make big plays under pressure. Mr. Clutch he's not 3. Be the go to guy when the team needs a first down. Not really. 4. Be a threat to catch first down yardage or TDs if not covered closely. Make them cover you and thus, open up the WRs. Nope 5. Block and open holes for crucial running plays and give the QB a chance to pass on long yardage plays. Not a star there either. 6. YAC. Yuk, Yuk, and Yuk! Sorry Charlie! You've got a ways to go before reaching stardom in the NFL.

They said star "potential". Did you even read the article ? And yeah, let's kill the guy after his first real season as a TE with a good amount of playing time. Be for real.

for his first year starting. Hopefully in year two he takes it to the next level.

....Screen

....Maxx

But after spending a year on the practice squad and two more on the 53 man roster, I would think he would be a better blocker by now. He has been around too long to just assume improvement based on another year in the weight room and another year of coaching.

But I think he'll improve on some of his receiving issues - beating the press, ball security and route running.

i personally am pessimistic his blocking will improve much. donnell's biggest issue is he plays soft. in order to be a decent blocker in the NFL u have 2 stick ur nose in there

adrien robinson,on the other hand, is a guy whos done very little but has atleast shown he is a physical guy. i have some optimism that it can click for him as a Howard Cross type

I'd be surprised if he isn't markedly better this year. Don't forget that Shockey only surpassed 66 catches once. His rookie season.

Donnell isn't stupid. He knows what he needs to improve in and he will do his best.

I cringe sometimes when I see that thinking he's going to come up hurt

fells and donnel as necessary cogs in a wheel.

This does not take into account blocking ability obviously

55 receptions
626 yards
5 TD's

63 receptions
623 yards
6 TD's

66 Receptions
623 yards
7 TD's

38 Receptions
604 yards
4 TD's

42 Receptions
567 Yards
5 TD's

One of these was a guy that people cried about " letting go "

One of these is Larry Donnell...

The point.. The Giants offense no matter who is playing the position tend to average about the same catches and yards and TD's almost every year.

Keep in mind that Donnell was a UDFA who was a practice squad player who has less that 4 years experience in the NFL..

so yes I would say the arrow is pointing up on Donnell.

Donnell, Fells, Corey Washington, Beckham, and Randle/Cruz. Let Eli lob it.

for my liking, but hope he improves for all our sakes.

blocking will be the biggest thing for him to overcome.

and of course the ball security issues.

re: not being clutch - he made some big 3rd down catches and kept drives going.

but he can catch and his size will create a lot of problems for defenders. and his skill set matches what McAdoo wants to do.

star potential - who knows? a solid contributor at the position, including not being a liability as a blocker, he will have a very good career.

think we forget about his lack of experience....

Part of his problem was, the one game where he had all those td catches...it showed potential, that didn't rear it's head the rest of the season....

He has good hands and size.....I think he will become a better receiver.....I think he will learn to protect the ball and perfect his route running....pass blocking? His problem is, he is susceptible to a "move"....someone with speed and a move, he just fans on the block.....and for his size, he doesn't have the drive to move blockers....maybe off season strengthening can help with that...

But if the Giants "truly" feel that he is the TE of their future, that ERFA tag, could come back to bite them in the ass, like it did with Bennett...by tagging him, we pay him the min, and if he does improve, then we have another TE free agent on our hands...

What is funny is how many people bash his blocking but want to bring in J. Cameron, who cant block a stationary bag.

He has the size to be able to block, he is also athletic. Can the coaches get through to him on blocking? Is he willing to learn blocking? Time will tell

It really does not make a difference who is at TE for the Giants, nor most of the NFL - they are usually open.

In comment 12136423 WeatherMan said:

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I'm fine with Donnell as the starter. One of the things lacking in the run game last year was a TE able to help out in a substantial way blocking, and that would go a long way towards covering up some of the shortcomings on the OL.

My thoughts exactly, however, if I recall, Finley wasn't exactly a great blocker either and Green Bays offense functioned quite well then too.

I am under the same opinion though, that the TE in a NY Giants offense should be quite capable of blocking to help out the OL on the edges.

Need a solid blocking TE who can catch a little. Someone like Koyak either in th fourth or fifth round

He has shown ability. He needs to just get his blocking more consistent and reduce errors.

the order of those TE's I listed..

Bennett
Donnell
Shockey 2006 (2007 was injury shortened)
Boss
Ballard

So in terms of receiving Donnell put up numbers equivalent to a guy everyone was screaming we should have kept.. Now Donnell has to get stronger and improve his blocking..

BUT factor in that he was a UDFA.. was a QB before switching to TE in college and had less that four years in the league..

Pretty darn impressive and the needle pointing up

And play Donnell as the H-back. I believe his faults as a blocker could be minimized.

My understanding is that H-back is more about getting to a position, and then holding the position, then it is about technique and attitude. The ability to motion can be very advantageous.

I believe he shows fantastic raw potential as a receiver, given his college position.

is not just a matter of lifting more weights and improving technique? What if he's just not mean enough?

has flashed legitimate potential as a pass catcher and red zone threat but his lack of blocking and ball protection is scary. He also dissapeared for chunks of games at a time last year....idk, he seems very one dimensional. They need to bring in a tight end who can block very well ie bear pascoe.....but then you tip your hand to the D.....idk how i feel about donnell