for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Great writeup on Kevin White

robbieballs2003 : 2/15/2015 9:58 am
Stolen from Defenderdawg's thread, I think everybody should read this. If you don't think Kevin White is a worthy pick at 9 then I think this might change your mind. Pairing him with Beckham, possibly Cruz and Randle would really take this offense to a whole new level. And, stop with the "we need an OL" comments. Nobody is saying we don't but there are more ways to address the OL than the first pick in the draft.
Link - ( New Window )
Is this your #1 WR robbie?  
Coach Mason : 2/15/2015 10:10 am : link
He certainly shows great footwork of the snap to win early in the route. Combine that with his ability to go up and get the football, he looks like he could be a good one at the next level.

Don't know if I put him over Parker who I think is just scratching the surface. DeVante was a pretty sloppy route runner his first couple years but come off injury last year on a mission and was pretty much unstoppable in the 7 games he played. Also Think Parker will test better and have the superior measurables.
What do you mean superior measureables?  
robbieballs2003 : 2/15/2015 10:23 am : link
And, yes, as of now he is my number one receiver.
40 time for starters  
Coach Mason : 2/15/2015 10:36 am : link
And I wonder how his wingspan and catch radius will compare.
There's an old saying:  
mrvax : 2/15/2015 10:37 am : link
"Two Beckhams are better than one."

If this guy is really good and Cruz an unknown, then I'd say yes to the pick. (Realizing that we have have holes elsewhere.)
Watch Dallas add yet another OL with their first pick  
Giants2012 : 2/15/2015 10:44 am : link
and the Giants will have the old San Diego Chargers

White is very appealing yet this team will remain a disaster if they keep ignoring the LOS.

WR has always made the most sense at 9  
BillT : 2/15/2015 10:45 am : link
Given the talent available. And WR has become the most important position in the NFL outside of QB. White is the logical target. Now, just have to hope he's still there.
RE: Watch Dallas add yet another OL with their first pick  
Coach Mason : 2/15/2015 10:46 am : link
In comment 12137171 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
and the Giants will have the old San Diego Chargers

White is very appealing yet this team will remain a disaster if they keep ignoring the LOS.


OL could easily be the pick but it's also likely we get a quality starter in FA.Have no fret, OL will not be ignored.
Love this  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 2/15/2015 10:47 am : link
guy. Makes the passing game dominant by giving a different dimension to the passing attack.
good thread  
Bill2 : 2/15/2015 10:49 am : link
thanks robbie
RE: 40 time for starters  
robbieballs2003 : 2/15/2015 10:50 am : link
In comment 12137165 Coach Mason said:
Quote:
And I wonder how his wingspan and catch radius will compare.


They are different players but what I like about White is his quickness and ability to get up to top speed instantly. Parker is definitely more of a long strider. However, White's ability to attack the ball at its highest point is second to none in this draft. Considering both are 6'3" I don't see their wingspans being much of an issue or a significant difference between the two.
RE: Watch Dallas add yet another OL with their first pick  
gidiefor : Mod : 2/15/2015 10:52 am : link
In comment 12137171 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
and the Giants will have the old San Diego Chargers

White is very appealing yet this team will remain a disaster if they keep ignoring the LOS.


A lot of good the oLine did them in the playoffs -- it came down to playmakers - and the cowboys fell short -- they looked outmanned in the playoffs -- and the Giants exposed them in their last game
RE: RE: Watch Dallas add yet another OL with their first pick  
Giants2012 : 2/15/2015 10:58 am : link
In comment 12137183 gidiefor said:
Quote:
In comment 12137171 Giants2012 said:


Quote:


and the Giants will have the old San Diego Chargers

White is very appealing yet this team will remain a disaster if they keep ignoring the LOS.




A lot of good the oLine did them in the playoffs -- it came down to playmakers - and the cowboys fell short -- they looked outmanned in the playoffs -- and the Giants exposed them in their last game


Oh please, just stop.
RE: Watch Dallas add yet another OL with their first pick  
BillT : 2/15/2015 11:21 am : link
In comment 12137171 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
and the Giants will have the old San Diego Chargers

White is very appealing yet this team will remain a disaster if they keep ignoring the LOS.


Except, of course, there aren't ignoring the LOS. They'll sign a decent FA OL which along with the two #2s and and the #1 and the other decent FA OL they currently have will give them a perfectly good OL.

The only ignoring going on are the folks here who can't seem to figure out what's going on right in front of them.
Really?  
Doomster : 2/15/2015 11:32 am : link
A lot of good the oLine did them in the playoffs -- it came down to playmakers - and the cowboys fell short -- they looked outmanned in the playoffs -- and the Giants exposed them in their last game.

That ruling on the Dez catch could have gone the other way....anything could have happened in Seattle...
RE: RE: 40 time for starters  
Coach Mason : 2/15/2015 11:32 am : link
In comment 12137182 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 12137165 Coach Mason said:


Quote:


And I wonder how his wingspan and catch radius will compare.



They are different players but what I like about White is his quickness and ability to get up to top speed instantly. Parker is definitely more of a long strider. However, White's ability to attack the ball at its highest point is second to none in this draft. Considering both are 6'3" I don't see their wingspans being much of an issue or a significant difference between the two.


Robbie these two guys in my estimation are close enough that I really need to see their numbers out of the combine to form a final evaluation.

Odell for instance had some good production but the measurables : huge hands, 3 cone,40, wingspan , vert , that package was mighty impressive and more than compensated for height.

Parker from what I see has more impressive deep speed and though they have similar height he has the better wingspan/catch radius.

He cleaned up a couple things last year regarding his route running and looked as dominant over half a season as I've seen for a WR in a long while.
Reese is not going to ignore the OL  
Jay on the Island : 2/15/2015 11:38 am : link
I think he is going to sign a solid starting guard in free agency and most likely a veteran backup. He will also add some talent to the OL in the draft even if it is just a developmental guy like Marpet.
Our OL has to be fixed....  
Doomster : 2/15/2015 11:46 am : link
It can't be continually breaking down.....it's like a merry-go-round, and each OLman takes turns falling off...Beatty called for holding, and td's are brought back....Can Richburg play much better than swinging gate Walton at center? Can Schwartz stay on the field, and if he can, will he play better than he has shown in a Giants uniform? Huge drop off in Pugh last year...injury or talent? Where will Pugh play? That probably will be answered by whether we sign a free agent RT or LG....and whoever we sign, has to play lights out...

And just as important, we need backups for this OL, because we have none....

Yes, you can't ignore the fact that Cruz is coming back from an injury that may cause him to be PUP'd at the start of the season....will Randle get it, in a contract year? Will another year in this offense make Parker a better receiver for Eli?

Will the Giants get another RB that has some speed and be important in the passing game?

Will Donnell take that next step?

We have seen what Eli can do with a good OL....we have also seen what happens when he is rushed into making bad decisions.....if you don't have the time, makes no difference who your receivers are...
RE: RE: Watch Dallas add yet another OL with their first pick  
Giants2012 : 2/15/2015 11:47 am : link
In comment 12137208 BillT said:
Quote:
In comment 12137171 Giants2012 said:


Quote:


and the Giants will have the old San Diego Chargers

White is very appealing yet this team will remain a disaster if they keep ignoring the LOS.




Except, of course, there aren't ignoring the LOS. They'll sign a decent FA OL which along with the two #2s and and the #1 and the other decent FA OL they currently have will give them a perfectly good OL.

The only ignoring going on are the folks here who can't seem to figure out what's going on right in front of them.


Your type of fan is priceless. From Guard to Guard they were atrocious in the running game and you have it figured out with an unnamed free agent while accusing others of not figuring out what's right in front of them. The bookends are real solid too. It's too naive and risky to think one FA guard is the missing piece and the rst will stay healthy and/or improve.
I don't see the Giants in position  
Headhunter : 2/15/2015 11:52 am : link
to draft in the top 10 often. You get a shot at a difference maker you take it. You might not be in this position again for years.
I like White  
Phil in LA : 2/15/2015 12:09 pm : link
but only with a tradedown. The Giants should try to get another playmaking WR somewhere in the first three rounds. Cruz is no sure thing and Randle will be a free agent after this season and isn't worth second contracting.
RE: Watch Dallas add yet another OL with their first pick  
BigBlueShock : 2/15/2015 12:10 pm : link
In comment 12137171 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
and the Giants will have the old San Diego Chargers

White is very appealing yet this team will remain a disaster if they keep ignoring the LOS.

You're just ignorant. And you are in every one of your "must draft OL in round 1 or else..." posts. It's extremely tiring, really.

They are not, and have not ignored the OL. You can argue that they've not made the best choices, but to insulate that they've "continued to ignore" the OL is flat out wrong and ignorant. They had some injuries and others haven't panned out. That is not ignoring anything. There are MANY questions surrounding this group of OL, yet you'd prefer that they throw a dart at the board and hope for the best. And you're the same guy that will destroy Reese if they reach for an OL and the guy turns out to be overmatched. He can't win, really. OBJ has turned out to be possibly the best player in last years draft, yet we still have to listen to the whining about Martin.

Just stop man. You simply have no clue what you're talking about. OL or bust! Yeah!
Bigblue  
Giants2012 : 2/15/2015 12:12 pm : link
Guess which finger i'm holding up?
Bigblue  
Giants2012 : 2/15/2015 12:13 pm : link
LOS also includes the defensive side of the football in case your head up up your @ss
Wow  
BigBlueShock : 2/15/2015 12:17 pm : link
your parents must be proud. You seem like a real winner.
RE: I don't see the Giants in position  
Simms11 : 2/15/2015 12:19 pm : link
In comment 12137242 Headhunter said:
Quote:
to draft in the top 10 often. You get a shot at a difference maker you take it. You might not be in this position again for years.


If they don't fix the oline and Dline, you can most certainly be assured of another top 10 pick next year.
RE: Wow  
Giants2012 : 2/15/2015 12:19 pm : link
In comment 12137269 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
your parents must be proud. You seem like a real winner.


Considering your inaccurate whine, i'd say the ignorant comment fits you perfectly

I've supported Reese as much as anybody so your whine about me ripping Reese is ignorant

I never mentioned Martin ever so congrats on another ignorant guess

I mentioned LOS so chalk up another miss on your end

Yeah, stick the ignorant comment skippy
I echo  
UConn4523 : 2/15/2015 12:28 pm : link
those who want the best playmaker possible at #9. For me it's Peat/Top WR/DT that falls. I really don't see us doing anything else.
If Kevin White is available when we pick,  
Ira : 2/15/2015 12:36 pm : link
he'll probably be the best player available. But I don't think he'll be there.
RE: Watch Dallas add yet another OL with their first pick  
Stupendamatic : 2/15/2015 12:37 pm : link
In comment 12137171 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
and the Giants will have the old San Diego Chargers

White is very appealing yet this team will remain a disaster if they keep ignoring the LOS.


Stop being dramatic. Nobody has ignored anything except for you if you feel the line has been.

Root for Dallas if you're so impressed by their team building philosophy.
It is comical how the kids struggle not to confuse LOS  
Giants2012 : 2/15/2015 12:41 pm : link
with OL. Stick to fantasy ladies
If they take a WR over OL I'm fine with it  
Stupendamatic : 2/15/2015 12:44 pm : link
I have faith they'll hit a home run with the first pick.

Both are needs but the value may not be there for a lineman at 9, unless they are certain he can play tackle. You can't risk the pick with a guy who may be a tackle some day,

You did compare Dallas picking OL  
UConn4523 : 2/15/2015 12:46 pm : link
and saying we ignore LOS. So while you keeping saying LOS, I'm of the opinion you have meant OL the entire time since that's what you keep harping on.

In any case, there's other ways to address the LOS besides the first round of the draft. DTs have a high bust rate, the DEs likely here at 9 don't seem like Giants type players, and the I only OL I think we consider is Peat.
I wouldn't weight WR as high as other positions in terms of need  
chris r : 2/15/2015 12:52 pm : link
but if they are the BPA even after factoring in that need weight, go for it.

Ideally OL will be taken care of anyways in FA and after that then I think need is fairly balanced outside all positions on the team outside QB, CB and RB.
RE: Bigblue  
Joe in Cambridge : 2/15/2015 12:52 pm : link
In comment 12137263 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
LOS also includes the defensive side of the football in case your head up up your @ss
But the Giants haven't ignored the DL either.
RE: You did compare Dallas picking OL  
Giants2012 : 2/15/2015 12:52 pm : link
In comment 12137309 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
and saying we ignore LOS. So while you keeping saying LOS, I'm of the opinion you have meant OL the entire time since that's what you keep harping on.

In any case, there's other ways to address the LOS besides the first round of the draft. DTs have a high bust rate, the DEs likely here at 9 don't seem like Giants type players, and the I only OL I think we consider is Peat.


I see that. The big blue douche is way off however.

Agreed about the bust factor regarding DL high and how to build the OL. My point is, watch Dallas add another OLman to really solidify that group. Meanwhile, the Giants still need to add to their DL and OL which Coughlin (basically said) is a problem. "How about running the ball and stopping the run" he said during his closing press conference.

Like I said, White is very appealing but if the team continues to ignore the LOS it's going to be a disaster. A few mediocre additions to the LOS might appease some yet that same LOS is #1` culprit as to why the Giants are picking 9th overall.
RE: It is comical how the kids struggle not to confuse LOS  
Stupendamatic : 2/15/2015 12:57 pm : link
In comment 12137299 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
with OL. Stick to fantasy ladies


What's comical is seeing fools like you talk out your ass.

LOS=Line of scrimmage, but you can go on thinking you're the smartest of the bunch.

Now back to the originally reason why I quoted you, how have the Giants ignored the los?

Drafting Richburg, signed Schwartz, Jerry, and Waldon on the offensive side.

Drafted Bromley, signed Ayers on the defensive side and we have two younger guys who flashed in Moore and Wynn.

We may not have invested as much as some may have liked, but to say we've ignored it are the words of someone who has not been paying attention.





How have the Giants ignored the OL and DL?  
robbieballs2003 : 2/15/2015 12:58 pm : link
I'm curious
RE: I wouldn't weight WR as high as other positions in terms of need  
Big Blue '56 : 2/15/2015 12:59 pm : link
In comment 12137316 chris r said:
Quote:
but if they are the BPA even after factoring in that need weight, go for it.

Ideally OL will be taken care of anyways in FA and after that then I think need is fairly balanced outside all positions on the team outside QB, CB and RB.


It could have been argued that Zach Martin was more of a need than OBJ was..OBJ was clearly BPA according to the Giants
You just said we ignored it again  
UConn4523 : 2/15/2015 12:59 pm : link
which is why I can't take your post seriously. Panning out doesn't equal ignore. You also have no idea who we sign prior to the draft. We've invested heavily in DL as well via the draft.

And Dallas can go OL again for all I care. I'd rather than do that then pair Dez with another legit WR.
RE: RE: It is comical how the kids struggle not to confuse LOS  
Giants2012 : 2/15/2015 1:00 pm : link
In comment 12137322 Stupendamatic said:
Quote:
In comment 12137299 Giants2012 said:


Quote:


with OL. Stick to fantasy ladies



What's comical is seeing fools like you talk out your ass.

LOS=Line of scrimmage, but you can go on thinking you're the smartest of the bunch.

Now back to the originally reason why I quoted you, how have the Giants ignored the los?

Drafting Richburg, signed Schwartz, Jerry, and Waldon on the offensive side.

Drafted Bromley, signed Ayers on the defensive side and we have two younger guys who flashed in Moore and Wynn.

We may not have invested as much as some may have liked, but to say we've ignored it are the words of someone who has not been paying attention.





Explain Coughlin's quote then. I know, a bunch of mediocre players is awesome.
Giants 2012  
Jay on the Island : 2/15/2015 1:02 pm : link
Your praising Dallas for strengthening the LOS but fail to mention how they have completely ignored their Defensive line. They were starting 3 journeyman last year in Selvie, Hayden, and Mincey. They did draft Lawrence in the 2nd round but other than that they haven't strengthened their DL at all.
If he's that great he'll be gone by 9  
ZogZerg : 2/15/2015 1:02 pm : link
Heavy odds against the Giants going WR in the first round in back to back years.
RE: RE: RE: It is comical how the kids struggle not to confuse LOS  
Stupendamatic : 2/15/2015 1:03 pm : link
In comment 12137328 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
In comment 12137322 Stupendamatic said:


Quote:


In comment 12137299 Giants2012 said:


Quote:


with OL. Stick to fantasy ladies



What's comical is seeing fools like you talk out your ass.

LOS=Line of scrimmage, but you can go on thinking you're the smartest of the bunch.

Now back to the originally reason why I quoted you, how have the Giants ignored the los?

Drafting Richburg, signed Schwartz, Jerry, and Waldon on the offensive side.

Drafted Bromley, signed Ayers on the defensive side and we have two younger guys who flashed in Moore and Wynn.

We may not have invested as much as some may have liked, but to say we've ignored it are the words of someone who has not been paying attention.


Explain Coughlin's quote then. I know, a bunch of mediocre players is awesome.


One thing at a time, I'm asking you to explain your own quote. Can you even do that?

How did we "ignore" the LOS?
Giants 2012  
Jay on the Island : 2/15/2015 1:05 pm : link
Be patient the Giants will add talent to both the OL and DL this offseason.
Coughlin always wants to run and control the run  
UConn4523 : 2/15/2015 1:07 pm : link
that hasn't changed in his entire lifetime of coaching. That said, he's got an OC who clearly has a different approach and he will have to adjust accordingly. We aren't going to go heavy run with Eli/Backham in an offense trying to play more up tempo and utilize more creative plays.

The pass will be opening up the run. It works ok GB, NE, Denver, etc and it can work here too.
Not to take anything away from Kevin White or a number of other  
Marty in Albany : 2/15/2015 1:08 pm : link
outstanding prospects who would be available at No. 9, the Giants need to improve their running game and they need to protect Eli.

Ask yourself this question:
Will the OT available at No. 41 do as good a job of protecting Eli as the guy available at No. 9? If the answer to that question is, "Yes" then fine, pick a WR at No. 9.

Re: Dallas and its improved OL. Romo is their most important asset and he is no longer as mobile or healthy as when he was younger. Their decision to focus on the OL was a prudent one because it limits the hits on Romo.
RE: If he's that great he'll be gone by 9  
UConn4523 : 2/15/2015 1:08 pm : link
In comment 12137332 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
Heavy odds against the Giants going WR in the first round in back to back years.


That doesn't make much sense. Why was Beckham available at 12 then?
RE: Not to take anything away from Kevin White or a number of other  
UConn4523 : 2/15/2015 1:11 pm : link
In comment 12137339 Marty in Albany said:
Quote:
outstanding prospects who would be available at No. 9, the Giants need to improve their running game and they need to protect Eli.

Ask yourself this question:
Will the OT available at No. 41 do as good a job of protecting Eli as the guy available at No. 9? If the answer to that question is, "Yes" then fine, pick a WR at No. 9.

Re: Dallas and its improved OL. Romo is their most important asset and he is no longer as mobile or healthy as when he was younger. Their decision to focus on the OL was a prudent one because it limits the hits on Romo.


Teams don't draft like that. You can't assume anyone will be there 30 picks later.

Romo still got pounded this year. Eli took less of a beating. No question we need to run better but the Eli is going to get kill nonsense has been going on every year since winning the SB.
RE: Giants 2012  
Giants2012 : 2/15/2015 1:16 pm : link
In comment 12137329 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
Your praising Dallas for strengthening the LOS but fail to mention how they have completely ignored their Defensive line. They were starting 3 journeyman last year in Selvie, Hayden, and Mincey. They did draft Lawrence in the 2nd round but other than that they haven't strengthened their DL at all.


Hey, our 2008 Giants team had an outstanding OL and dominated despite losing Strahan to retirement and Osi to IR. That Dallas team controlled the LOS offensively and made opponents one dimensional often which aided that mediocre DL.

This OL was ignored for years and some might applaud the warm bodies which couldn't beat out a finished Diehl and Snee. Selecting Pugh and Richburg in back to back years came really late and exactly why this bunch is a mess. Did the Giants completely ignore the OL? Well, technically "no" but those thinking the OL wasn't ignored a year removed from Booth while adding Schwartz & Jerry while Beatty could use a blocking TE are living on the moon. The running game stinks b/c from Guard to Guard they stunk and both OT's a bit suspect.

On the DL, there is a significant issue at the 3-GAP as Jenkins was terrible last year. They have no idea what's going on at the LDE position while some might applaud a lost Kiwi, a head case with Moore and luke warm Ayers isn't keeping any OC up at night. Meanwhile, JPP and his awesome December apparently made people forget where he was for practically 18 months.

The team is picking 9th b/c of the lack of focus on the LOS.

RE: Giants 2012  
Giants2012 : 2/15/2015 1:17 pm : link
In comment 12137335 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
Be patient the Giants will add talent to both the OL and DL this offseason.


I'm sure they will. Coughin's quotes said it all IMO.
RE: RE: Giants 2012  
Stupendamatic : 2/15/2015 1:22 pm : link
In comment 12137351 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
Did the Giants completely ignore the OL? Well, technically "no"


Thank you, that's all I needed.
Not sure he is my #1  
Sy'56 : 2/15/2015 1:27 pm : link
But I wouldn't argue against him either. He is a really competitive, physical guy with upper tier tools. He isn't as fluid as I want a top tier graded WR to be, however. His routes are a sloppy and I don't see the easy movement with the ball in his hands. I don't see the Julio Jones comparisons at all. I don't even know if he is a legit 4.4 guy either.

I'm still taking Cooper over him, and not really thinking about it too much unless Cooper has discouraging medicals.
none of the OL in Rd 1 are worth of top 10 picks.  
GiantsFan84 : 2/15/2015 1:28 pm : link
They just aren't. So it makes it more imperative to solve this through free agency. Sign a legitimate starter and draft Marpet in Rd 4 and your depth is filled out and you have a real line.

This frees the Giants up to take advantage of the two positions that have players that they can use that are worth the value, WR or DT. At 9 they should be looking at Shelton or White.
A lot of where White goes depends on his 40 times  
Ira : 2/15/2015 1:41 pm : link
in the combine and at his pro day.
UConn  
ZogZerg : 2/15/2015 1:44 pm : link
A couple of reasons - NO one had any clue, not even the Giants, that he would be so awesome.
Secondly, it's pretty apparent that this years draft prospects are no where close to last years.
I was in the camp of  
DonnieD89 : 2/15/2015 3:31 pm : link
hoping for last years Oline prospects such as Robinson or Matthews to fall at #12 for the Giants, but it worked out great taking Beckham. With this years Oline prospects to be not as good as last years, I hope Reese continues to take BPA which could be WR. I am though hoping that an Olineman or a Dline is BPA at #9. The situation is not that we need a WR, Olineman, or Dlineman with the 1st round pick, but rather that Reese hits a homerun with this pick. CAN'T MAKE A MISTAKE!!
What I don't get is ...  
ij_reilly : 2/15/2015 3:56 pm : link
how does drafting a big-time playmaker at #9 (be it WR, RB, DE, LB; just not OL) equate to "ignoring the OL".

That makes no sense to me at all.
RE: Not sure he is my #1  
TC : 2/15/2015 4:26 pm : link
In comment 12137365 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
But I wouldn't argue against him either. He is a really competitive, physical guy with upper tier tools. He isn't as fluid as I want a top tier graded WR to be, however. His routes are a sloppy and I don't see the easy movement with the ball in his hands. I don't see the Julio Jones comparisons at all. I don't even know if he is a legit 4.4 guy either.

I'm still taking Cooper over him, and not really thinking about it too much unless Cooper has discouraging medicals.


Physical and competitive go a long way in my book, particularly when they're paired with the tools needed for the position. Whether he has outstanding measurables, or can be compared to Julio Jones is less important to me than what he might be able to do for the Giants. Heck, some day folks might be comparing WR prospects to Kevin White.

While Beckham is as physical and competitive as any WR, White brings added size to the Giants in a package that the Giants haven't had in WR in a long time. He's not just physical, he's very physical and tends to run well after the catch.

Typically a pair of alpha males like Beckham and White will each constantly be competing with each other to be the best. If the Giants can get both of these guys plus a healthy Cruz on the field together it should put enormous stress on defenses, and change the way they have to play the Giants.

That said, I wouldn't be upset if they took someone like Peat, or a DT, or any of the other promising impact prospects who will most certainly be ther at #9.
White has a little Jordy Nelson to his game  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 2/15/2015 5:46 pm : link
great combination of quickness + ball skills. Beckham is pretty much the ideal Randall Cobb/Greg Jennings type, I think it would make sense for McAdoo to be interested in bringing a Jordy-type to pair ODB with.

One negative with White I see is something Sy mentioned, he's not very fluid. Out of all the Top 3 WR prospects, he's definitely the most mechanical imo. That could be something that limits his potential in the pros, especially if he doesn't test out as well as expected.

Cooper seems like such a safe bet to be a good player. My only question with him is how good. He's not a jaw dropping physical specimen but he's so damn smooth and fluid. He's a guy whose 40yd/3Cone/SS I'm really interested in seeing. If he's a legit 4.4 guy then I would probably still rank him #1 out of this group. But if he's a high 4.5s guy I might dip him down to #3. He's super smooth but if his speed is lacking, I don't see him being a true dominant #1.

I think Parker is the sloppiest out of the 3 but has the highest potential. He's the only one who I think has a chance to enter that AJ/Julio/Dez tier. I love watching him play. He's everything the Giants want Reuben Randle to be.

I still feel like Green-Beckham is the most talented WR in this draft, and maybe a Top 5 overall talent. He's raw and soft, two big knocks to be fair. But holy crap the potential. I wouldn't touch him at #9 because of the off-field stuff but I'd jump all over him in the 2nd round. Get him in an NFL weight room and have him work with Eli and ODB in the film room, and you could have a freakish Plax/AJ Green hybrid.
I would be very happy with White at 9  
Big Rick in FL : 2/15/2015 6:12 pm : link
Though I hope he runs fast same with Parker. Hoping teams (Raiders/Jets) get caught up with there size & speed. Allowing Amari Cooper to fall to 9. I want him probably more then any other player not named Dante Fowler. I like him more then Fowler, but I'm not getting my hopes up for Cooper.
Cooper/Beckham could be Wayne/Harrison 2.0  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 2/15/2015 6:22 pm : link
imagine giving Eli a WR corps like that throughout the rest of his prime.

People keep saying "Remember what Eli can do with an OL". But I'd counter that with "Remember what Eli did in '11 with 2 great WRs and a shit OL".

I still want to fix the OL, do not get me wrong. But I'd absolutely be ok with drafting a WR in round 1 if he's the BPA according to the board. Eli knows how to take advantage of his weapons. Giving him more weapons isn't a bad idea.
RE: Cooper/Beckham could be Wayne/Harrison 2.0  
LauderdaleMatty : 2/15/2015 6:32 pm : link
In comment 12137631 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
imagine giving Eli a WR corps like that throughout the rest of his prime.

People keep saying "Remember what Eli can do with an OL". But I'd counter that with "Remember what Eli did in '11 with 2 great WRs and a shit OL".

I still want to fix the OL, do not get me wrong. But I'd absolutely be ok with drafting a WR in round 1 if he's the BPA according to the board. Eli knows how to take advantage of his weapons. Giving him more weapons isn't a bad idea.


How many Super Bowls did those two win w Payton.

Thanks but we don't need another WR at 9. Mainly because there's no way to know any of the WRs including Cooper will be that great. Just as we don't know if Peat or the other OL will be that great.

IMO WRs are becoming a dime a dozen. Antonio Brown was taken where? Edelman? Doesn;'t mean you pass up top tier talent but this need to become a Madden game and ignoring HUGE holes everywhere else on the roster is perplexing. As if no other players in the whole draft can be as important or be worth the 9th pick.

Not one of the WRs at the to-p are any more of a sure bet to be great as the OLs. Never mine the need for LB DE S etc.
The combine  
Phil in LA : 2/15/2015 6:43 pm : link
should go a long way toward really stacking the WR's this year. With all those different passing offenses it will be useful to get them all doing the same drills.
they won 1 Super Bowl with Peyton  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 2/15/2015 6:46 pm : link
is that somehow a bad thing?

Too many of you guys think a 1st round pick is the only way to fill a need. I agree that this team has a lot more urgent needs than WR. But WR isn't exactly worry-free for us. Next to our #1 we have a #3 in Randle and a #? in Cruz.

I'm not suggesting that we take WR no matter what. But if the WR is the BPA, you take him.

Right now Shelton (DT) and Collins (OG/OT) are my top two choices with our first round pick. Trust me, I know we have issues in the trenches that we need to solve. But WR is still a 1st round option for this team.
RE: White has a little Jordy Nelson to his game  
Coach Mason : 2/15/2015 9:21 pm : link
In comment 12137597 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
great combination of quickness + ball skills. Beckham is pretty much the ideal Randall Cobb/Greg Jennings type, I think it would make sense for McAdoo to be interested in bringing a Jordy-type to pair ODB with.

One negative with White I see is something Sy mentioned, he's not very fluid. Out of all the Top 3 WR prospects, he's definitely the most mechanical imo. That could be something that limits his potential in the pros, especially if he doesn't test out as well as expected.

Cooper seems like such a safe bet to be a good player. My only question with him is how good. He's not a jaw dropping physical specimen but he's so damn smooth and fluid. He's a guy whose 40yd/3Cone/SS I'm really interested in seeing. If he's a legit 4.4 guy then I would probably still rank him #1 out of this group. But if he's a high 4.5s guy I might dip him down to #3. He's super smooth but if his speed is lacking, I don't see him being a true dominant #1.

I think Parker is the sloppiest out of the 3 but has the highest potential. He's the only one who I think has a chance to enter that AJ/Julio/Dez tier. I love watching him play. He's everything the Giants want Reuben Randle to be.

I still feel like Green-Beckham is the most talented WR in this draft, and maybe a Top 5 overall talent. He's raw and soft, two big knocks to be fair. But holy crap the potential. I wouldn't touch him at #9 because of the off-field stuff but I'd jump all over him in the 2nd round. Get him in an NFL weight room and have him work with Eli and ODB in the film room, and you could have a freakish Plax/AJ Green hybrid.


Osi nice post. Pretty much agreed with all your evaluations.

I might be a touch higher on Cooper even without the measurables. He is such a natural route runner. Guys like that tend do do very well even if they don't have the best 40 times.

Ive decided to wait post combine  
blueblood : 2/15/2015 9:59 pm : link
before I get worked up over any WR prospects..
Here are the scenarios where I see us picking White...  
EricJ : 2/16/2015 7:38 am : link
1. Cruz's rehab is leading the training staff to believe that we have to make other plans at his position.
2. He falls to us and the guys we have graded ahead are gone.

Remember, our deepest need is not just the O-line. We have a serious problem on the D-line too. Are we forgetting that this Giants defense has been the worst we have seen in a half century? If there is a superstar D-lineman or LB sitting there do not be surprised if the Giants select him.

Now, if we take another DB with White still on the board then this place will go fucking crazy.
Any way you cut it: Eli needs another weapon.  
drkenneth : 2/16/2015 7:42 am : link
If that comes with #9, I am all for it.

I like what I see from White.
OL  
stretch234 : 2/16/2015 8:06 am : link
Here are the numbers on pass protection

Giants 607 pass attempts - 30 sacks

Dallas 476 pass attempts - 30 sacks

Romo got hit a lot more the Eli did and in a lot less attempts.

Yes, they are a good running unit. They were also a good running team before Martin was drafted and Frederick was drafted - they never stuck with it until this year due to the Romo injury

The overall notion of having to draft OL in the 1st to be successful is crap. Look at what the Pats just did with 2 UDFA G's and a 4th RD rookie C
Kevin White  
ReneNYG1 : 2/17/2015 2:21 pm : link
My thought s was to go Wideout with the first pick but the guy I want is DeVante Parker,I also love the hands of Justin Hardy ,he has special hands like I never seen before.Reciever is the most important position besides the QB and if we have multiple weapons there it would be awesome.
RE:  
AnotherGiantsFan : 2/17/2015 3:12 pm : link
In comment 12137640 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:

How many Super Bowls did those two win w Payton.

Thanks but we don't need another WR at 9. Mainly because there's no way to know any of the WRs including Cooper will be that great. Just as we don't know if Peat or the other OL will be that great.

IMO WRs are becoming a dime a dozen. Antonio Brown was taken where? Edelman? Doesn;'t mean you pass up top tier talent but this need to become a Madden game and ignoring HUGE holes everywhere else on the roster is perplexing. As if no other players in the whole draft can be as important or be worth the 9th pick.

Not one of the WRs at the to-p are any more of a sure bet to be great as the OLs. Never mine the need for LB DE S etc.


There is so much stupid in this comment.

WR is now becoming a dime a dozen? Good thing you said that's your opinion, because it is certainly not based on any factual evidence whatsoever. I do love the fact how you threw in a total of 2 guys in there to back up your point though, and one them isn't even a top 10 WR.

Out of the top 50 WRs in receiving yards of 2014, 41 of them were drafted between rounds 1-3. Nine of them were drafted in the 4th round or were not drafted at all.

Out of the top 20 WRs in receiving yards of 2014, 18 of them were drafted between rounds 1-3. The other two were Antonio Brown and Emmanuel Sanders.

How can you possibly claim that WRs are a dime a dozen when the premiere/quality draft picks are the ones that are producing at a high level in the league?
RE: There's an old saying:  
Disgruntled NYGfan : 2/17/2015 3:14 pm : link
In comment 12137167 mrvax said:
Quote:
"Two Beckhams are better than one."

If this guy is really good and Cruz an unknown, then I'd say yes to the pick. (Realizing that we have have holes elsewhere.)


People homing in on OL for first round draft need to relax. It's almost certain we are going to get a guard in FA. We won with an average line and elite WR talent before, so I can see the logic.

Not sure what is out there that FO will pursue at LB or S, but we need an impact player at both of those spots more than at WR where we are decent.

I also don't want to see us become GB and have to let top-level wr talent walk (Cobb).

Remember that the FA market for WR is also pretty good. Would it change the opinion of the folks pushing hard for WR if we signed Cobb, for instance? I think that certainly should change it.

That's why it's really really premature to talk draft with any kind of specificity before FA ends.
RE: RE: It is comical how the kids struggle not to confuse LOS  
Disgruntled NYGfan : 2/17/2015 3:26 pm : link
In comment 12137322 Stupendamatic said:
Quote:
In comment 12137299 Giants2012 said:


Quote:


with OL. Stick to fantasy ladies



What's comical is seeing fools like you talk out your ass.

LOS=Line of scrimmage, but you can go on thinking you're the smartest of the bunch.

Now back to the originally reason why I quoted you, how have the Giants ignored the los?

Drafting Richburg, signed Schwartz, Jerry, and Waldon on the offensive side.

Drafted Bromley, signed Ayers on the defensive side and we have two younger guys who flashed in Moore and Wynn.

We may not have invested as much as some may have liked, but to say we've ignored it are the words of someone who has not been paying attention.






I think those posters are using the word "ignore" to exaggerate to drive a point home. I agree with you that it's too strong of a word, but I don't think you will argue that not being able to run or stop the run is a problem. And our OL's "fantastic" pass protection is more of a result of three-step drops than some massive upgrade in performance.

Moore has been somewhat of a disappointment so far, since he sucks against the run. Wynn flashed, but is still an unknown commodity. Bromley even more so. Ayers is a situational pass-rusher and nothing more. Brown and Jerry were only budget-signing plug ins. Walton was a cheap gamble.

Schwartz in FO and Richburg (maybe) in the draft were the only legitimate signings of last offseason that indicated the team prioritized controlling the LOS. Which was frankly shocking considering how much of a sieve the OL was.

Two years ago we drafted a G/T and a DT who are starting, one who is solid, and one who is a rock. Hopefully, the FO can strike some gold again, or at least silver. Maybe bauxite, lol. Anything but lead or pyrite...
Instead of  
Metnut : 2/17/2015 3:27 pm : link
just trying to plug holes, I like the idea of creating a strength and major mismatches that opponents will have to get uncomfortable to try and deal with. As much as we could use a stud tackle at #9, if the BPA is a WR, I'm more than fine with drafting one.

We've seen how quick a rookie WR can step in and dominate at the NFL level. It'd be great to add another weapon there, and get immediate OL help via FA, so we can try and make another run during Eli's prime.
Back to the Corner