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Powell:: Mayock says Scherff compares favorably to Martin

Defenderdawg : 2/16/2015 3:13 pm
"NFL Network analyst Mike Mayock said at a conference call that the Scherff-Martin comparison was a strong one, and said that ultimately he will be a good player at any offensive line position, but could be a special player on the inside.

"It's a question of a very similar conversation that we had with Zack Martin last year. You could start [Martin] at left tackle, and he'd be a good left tackle, you could start him at right tackle and be a very good right tackle," Mayock said. "But as it turned out, he was an All-Pro, year one, at right guard. And when I look at Brandon Scherff, I see a similar example, I see a similar kid with longer arms, so that leads me to think he can play outside more easily. And again, I believe he can play outside. However, I think his best position, because of his power, his toughness, and his football sense is inside. I think he's an All-Pro guard, but that doesn't mean he can't play tackle in the NFL."
Link - ( New Window )
translation  
gidiefor : Mod : 2/16/2015 3:18 pm : link
means Giants won't pick him at 9 having passed on him at 12
I certainly don't know as much football as Mike Mayock,  
Ira : 2/16/2015 3:20 pm : link
but from watching Scherff and watching Martin last year, Martin hasquicker feet and better balance. Martin could play tackle in the nfl. Scherff has no chance.
Terrific  
JonC : 2/16/2015 3:20 pm : link
now we'll have the privilege of more complaining from the pro-Martin contingent.
Call me nuts  
Salty Meats : 2/16/2015 3:30 pm : link
but with the dust settled and what the future may hold, I still would have preferred Martin.
RE: translation  
superspynyg : 2/16/2015 3:33 pm : link
In comment 12138639 gidiefor said:
Quote:
means Giants won't pick him at 9 having passed on him at 12


I think that the Giants were so high on Odell that he was the pick all along. Had Beckham gone before our pick we may have picked Donald or Martin. Plus we did draft Pugh who played well at RT in 2013 and signed Schwartz to play guard. SO Martin may not have been as high a need.
I like the kid  
SHO'NUFF : 2/16/2015 3:34 pm : link
from Stanford.
RE: Terrific  
drkenneth : 2/16/2015 3:35 pm : link
In comment 12138641 JonC said:
Quote:
now we'll have the privilege of more complaining from the pro-Martin contingent.


Well, that didn't take long.
WR carries much more value than OG, especially high in the draft  
JonC : 2/16/2015 3:36 pm : link
NYG had targeted OB, rated Lewan and Martin behind him, in that order. I never once heard Donald's name linked to NYG. Their three expected targets didn't include him.
Martin Over Beckham  
Samiam : 2/16/2015 3:37 pm : link
Is absolutely crazy.
RE: Martin Over Beckham  
ballanda : 2/16/2015 3:52 pm : link
In comment 12138662 Samiam said:
Quote:
Is absolutely crazy.

This
I think the  
Amtoft : 2/16/2015 3:57 pm : link
Martin over OBJ is over... OBJ won... NYG wouldn't trade OBJ for Martin straight up and Dallas I am pretty sure if they were offered it would jump as fast as they could to accept that trade.
I'm sorry Ira, but that strikes me as a ridiculous statement.  
Crispino : 2/16/2015 3:58 pm : link
He has no chance? Based on what? Your assessment? Amazing that you can sum up a guy's career better than the experts based on the little video you've seen.
Honestly how can anyone still have the  
Jay on the Island : 2/16/2015 4:00 pm : link
Martin vs. Beckham debate? Who on earth would choose an all-pro Guard over an All-Pro Receiver? Beckham was arguably the best receiver in the NFL last season.
I would  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/16/2015 4:12 pm : link
never take Martin over Beckham, knowing what we know, but Martin looks like one of the best OL prospects to come along in a long time. He didn't give up a sack last year and is a major stud run blocking.
I would be fine with Scherff  
Jay on the Island : 2/16/2015 4:12 pm : link
at #9 but I would also be happy if Collins or Peat were the selection because it is crucial to fix the offensive line. Scherff is not my top choice but he seems to be the "safest" choice. I just think that Reese would target a guy with more upside like Peat.
As with most players and positions  
robbieballs2003 : 2/16/2015 4:15 pm : link
A lot is about their supporting cast. Martin was thrown into an almost ideal situation. Put him on a team that didn't make the playoffs and you probably don't see the same amount of love for him. Don't get me wrong, he's a great player. I'm just saying that playing for the Cowboys, next to two great OL, and on a playoff team and you get a lot of love.
As It Turned Out, The Three Guys  
Trainmaster : 2/16/2015 4:20 pm : link
in the conversation when the Giants were picking last year (Beckham, Donald and Martin) all look to be excellent NFL propects. In effect (with 20/20 hindsight), the Giants would have done well with Donald or Martin; it's just that the Beckham pick looks like it will be the much better pick.
RE: translation  
chris r : 2/16/2015 4:21 pm : link
In comment 12138639 gidiefor said:
Quote:
means Giants won't pick him at 9 having passed on him at 12


Who is this year's Beckham, possibly the best rookies at his position ever?
RE: I'm sorry Ira, but that strikes me as a ridiculous statement.  
Ira : 2/16/2015 4:27 pm : link
In comment 12138687 Crispino said:
Quote:
He has no chance? Based on what? Your assessment? Amazing that you can sum up a guy's career better than the experts based on the little video you've seen.


This is something that Boylhart had to say on the subject -
Quote:
The value of a player like Brandon supersedes his talent rating because most are evaluating Brandon as a tackle and the truth is for the next level Brandon doesn’t have the athletic talent to play the tackle position in the NFL.

But the bottom line is watch the guy play. Watch him lunge when he can't mirror a pass rusher. See for yourself if it's ridiculous.


Scherff vs Maryland, Indiana, Ohio State and 3 others. - ( New Window )
If we take Scherff ....  
Beer Man : 2/16/2015 4:28 pm : link
And the coaches decide in the next year or two his future is at guard, the team will still need to spend another high pick in a coming draft on a LT
Powell:: Mayock says Scherff compares favorably to Martin  
BillT : 2/16/2015 4:42 pm : link
The best argument I've heard yet why we won't take him at #9. And that's not to mention that they almost certaily will have signed a FA to fill that spot before the draft.
It would be very out of character for the Giants  
81_Great_Dane : 2/16/2015 4:48 pm : link
to use a first-rounder on an interior offensive lineman. It would be doubly so for them to use a top-10 pick on a guard.

Years ago, Ernie Accorsi told WFAN that he didn't believe in drafting o-linemen in the first "unless it's a stud tackle." That's consistent with the way they've drafted for a long time.
Based on their past history, if they thought there was a "stud" tackle prospect available at 9, they'd pounce. But it doesn't sound like this draft's tackle prospects are that good. So I think they'll go BPA and try to get another elite player -- which is exactly what they should be doing with the #9 pick.

I expect them to think about need more in the second or third, and to probably draft a guard in the second unless something fluky happens and someone too good to resist falls to them.
Hypothetical  
Rick in Dallas : 2/16/2015 4:49 pm : link
Would you take Scherff at LG at #9 if he turns out to be an all pro for the next 8 years??? Yes...
Disclaimer: Very few draft choices are a lock..  
Big Blue '56 : 2/16/2015 4:58 pm : link
Any pick at 9 for us, would be perfectly acceptable to me, given Reese's first round success, imo
RE: Hypothetical  
Mike in NY : 2/16/2015 5:01 pm : link
In comment 12138730 Rick in Dallas said:
Quote:
Would you take Scherff at LG at #9 if he turns out to be an all pro for the next 8 years??? Yes...


1) As a caveat I do not think Scherff will reach that level
2) The difference between an elite OG and a very good OG is not that large in terms of making an overall impact on a team. If Scherff turns out to be an 8 year All Pro but the OG available in Round 2 also turn out to be someone who could help us then we could be sacrificing at another position where the dropoff is greater
So a handful of plays you've seen....  
Crispino : 2/16/2015 5:08 pm : link
convince you that there is no chance he can play tackle in the NFL, despite the fact that there are draft guys out there who think he can? And if our personnel people think he can, you think know better? Ok.
Prior to ever watching any video of Scherff, I had read about . . . .  
TC : 2/16/2015 5:19 pm : link
this overwhelming, physical OL who dominates at the POA. I was flabbergasted when I saw him play on video: I saw a clumsy, though admittedly nasty, OL who often fell off his blocks, and for all his vaunted physical prowess also often got tossed around by DL's.

Would not only not take him at #9, wouldn't take him at the Giants pick in the 2nd, and would have to think about it at the end of the 2nd.
in today's NFL  
hitdog42 : 2/16/2015 5:22 pm : link
a stud OL is a stud OL.... regardless of position. RT, LG, OC... whatever it is. If we think someone at #9 is a Zach Martin clone then you can run to the podium in my view. I dont view Scherff in that manner.... but this LT, RT, OG stuff.... to me is dated. This team needs a stud linemen.... not a stud LT... and if he turns out to be a stud LT, so be it. And if we get our OL in free agency... then so be it.... but to not choose him based on position if he can be a Martin type impact is not intelligent in my view.
Giants are going D with first pick '  
NYGNYY : 2/16/2015 5:34 pm : link
Like a Danny Shelton imo..
Give me  
Amtoft : 2/16/2015 5:41 pm : link
DE Dante Fowler in the first and OG Tre Jackson in the second
RE: So a handful of plays you've seen....  
Ira : 2/16/2015 5:54 pm : link
In comment 12138746 Crispino said:
Quote:
convince you that there is no chance he can play tackle in the NFL, despite the fact that there are draft guys out there who think he can? And if our personnel people think he can, you think know better? Ok.


Some people say right tackle or guard. I'm skeptical about right tackle because there are teams who put their best pass rusher there. Here's Walter Footballs evaluation -
Quote:

Scherff would probably be better off in the NFL as a right tackle or guard. He was a tough run-blocker throughout 2014, but there still remain questions about his ability to handle NFL-caliber speed rushers.


Not that the Giants, and every other team...  
Crispino : 2/16/2015 5:58 pm : link
don't miss, but I'm guessing that if they were to select Scherff and project him as a tackle, they would do so based on a more thorough analysis than is provided by the video available on YouTube. For fans on a website to proclaim they can project with certainty this guy's career chances based on their limited analysis is silly.
We needed both last year.  
Randy in CT : 2/16/2015 6:02 pm : link
We picked OBJ. How can you still be upset with that pick unless you don't watch the games nor follow the sport?

We still are/will be restocking the line but we picked a game-changer in OBJ.
RE: Not that the Giants, and every other team...  
Ira : 2/16/2015 6:23 pm : link
In comment 12138783 Crispino said:
Quote:
don't miss, but I'm guessing that if they were to select Scherff and project him as a tackle, they would do so based on a more thorough analysis than is provided by the video available on YouTube. For fans on a website to proclaim they can project with certainty this guy's career chances based on their limited analysis is silly.


True. Teams analysis is more thorough than fans. But a forum like bbi is for fans to offer their opinions, not blindly wait for their team to make it's picks.
Martin looks like a stud, but come'on...  
SoDev : 2/16/2015 6:37 pm : link
When comparing him to other rookies just remember how good of a situation he was put into. That isn't taking anything away from him, but keep it in perspective.
RE: Terrific  
Emil : 2/16/2015 6:46 pm : link
In comment 12138641 JonC said:
Quote:
now we'll have the privilege of more complaining from the pro-Martin contingent.


Ha ha ha, well played JonC
Scherff will be a unique weapon  
KWALL2 : 2/16/2015 6:48 pm : link
in the NFL. He'll be a red zone weapon as a guard. He can move and quickly overload one side when he pulls. In the red zone this is money. When KC was killing it in the red zone with Priest Holmes, they did it with highly athletic guards who could pull. This guy can do that for you.

I don't get the questions about his feet. He's extremely athletic.

I don't want a guard at 9 but he's a damn good prospect.
The thing about Scherff  
Sy'56 : 2/16/2015 6:57 pm : link
Everyone labels him "not athletic enough"....but it is far from true. If anything...I think his ability to move is better than his power/strength. His struggles on tape usually come from him mis-timing and/or mis-reading. But when it comes to overall movement ability and potential, he is better than most of the OL in this class. I think we will see that at the combine.
I'd  
AcidTest : 2/16/2015 7:08 pm : link
prefer to draft someone else at #9, because I think there are prospects who are more likely to be able to play LT in the NFL. But Scherff would nonetheless be a fine pick, and I'd have no problems with his selection.
I have no idea talent wise how to  
idiotsavant : 2/16/2015 7:15 pm : link
parse the little issues.

but, it is kind of a trap, once again, do you want the power player, which we need, at a position of need (guard, more so than tackle, need wise), or, if you say the tackle is a more rare find, I have not a clue, and does that outweigh the whole synergy-over-the-next-few years thing.

heck, that is not even discussion the whole DT thing.

cant wait in any case, a fun year.
interior either way may win out  
idiotsavant : 2/16/2015 7:20 pm : link
the interior spots (OL/DL) might have to carry the day in #1.

we -have- offensive tackles

and it is very questionable if there is an exterior defense (end) worthy of the high first, so.

DT or 'playing at OG ' offers you the synergy value which may easily outweigh any individual player value margin in the W/L next few years.
I like Scherff too, then again  
Dry Lightning : 2/16/2015 7:20 pm : link
I remember Mayock praising Pugh............."angles, angles".
RE: translation  
SGMen : 2/16/2015 9:39 pm : link
In comment 12138639 gidiefor said:
Quote:
means Giants won't pick him at 9 having passed on him at 12
There isn't nearly as much talent in this drops top half as in last year's.

If Scherff can come in and play RG at a pro bowl level as a rookie, especially as rookie that can run block, we are set on the starting OL.

Beatty-Schwartz-Richburg-Scherff-Pugh - Pugh improved as the season went and he got healthy for the end run. Scherff is a big body with long arms and if he can be dominant run blocking we have the right side to run behind.

It would really help if we had a better blocking TE so lets hope Donnell works hard in this area and improves.
SGMen  
Ira : 2/16/2015 10:00 pm : link
I agree with most of that. If he's the guy, I expect he'll play left guard. While I don't think he has quick feet, I do agree that he's athletic and can learn to pull effectively. There is some question about his arm length. Some say he has short arms, while others say he has long arms. We'll find out at the combine soon enough.
Ira, when you make a a statement ...  
Crispino : 2/16/2015 10:08 pm : link
couched in absolute terms, like " no chance " you should expect to take fire for it. You're the one who made a proclamation. I just said I think the team is in a better position to assess than you are. So are a lot of people who don't agree with you. But you have spoken, so I guess the discussion is closed.
Dont think we need a tackle  
mookskingdom20 : 2/16/2015 10:36 pm : link
Not ready to move Pugh yet, he showed too much promise his rookie year and deserves another year at RT, find a good guard in FA/mid rounds and consider the Oline a finished product (the starting 5 at least)
Scherff  
stretch234 : 2/17/2015 6:57 am : link
If the Giants draft him at 9 he better be Chris Snee. He would be the 2nd highest G drafted in 15 years. That is a concern

I would rather draft the guy who has the LT potential
RE: Call me nuts  
mrvax : 2/17/2015 7:35 am : link
In comment 12138652 Salty Meats said:
Quote:
but with the dust settled and what the future may hold, I still would have preferred Martin.


and no Beckham. That's nuts.
Drafting #9 we are going to choose from several strong prospects  
Torrag : 2/17/2015 7:53 am : link
Personally I have Leonard Williams as the only true blue chip prospect in this draft class. Gregory(size/durability), Winston(mental preparation/character), Cooper(size/speed/explosion) et al. carry enough questions or concerns for me to regard them as red chip prospects. #9 is a good place to be.
I don't believe this is the year we go OL in 1st  
cjd2404 : 2/17/2015 9:14 am : link
We have:

Beatty at T
Schwartz at G
Richburg at C
(Blank) at G
Pugh at T

While I admit the (blank) at G is a problem, there is also the rumor Pugh moves inside. If that is the case, I am guessing we go T in Free Agency, probably G as well.

While depth is certainly an issue you also do not go for a 1st to sit them. My guess is BPA in 1st, OL 2nd, RB 3rd. That might change is Cruz is not doing well, but I think the WR will be OB, VC, and RR going into 2015.
I would have no problem if they went OL in 1st  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/17/2015 9:20 am : link
They need it, and there seems to be some good fits.

There's no standout safety or DE in the first round.
geesh giants would've hit big anyway  
micky : 2/17/2015 9:24 am : link
Whether obj or martin. Win win.
There isn't a GM  
Big Rick in FL : 2/17/2015 9:44 am : link
Or coach in the history of the NFL who would select Zach Martin over Odell. Knowing what we know now.

I also don't think there is any chance we select a guy who projects to Guard at 9. IMO we are going to select whoever is left out of Fowler, Ray, Gregory, Shelton, Cooper or Kevin White. Unless Leonard Williams somehow falls to 9.
coming around on scherff  
area junc : 2/17/2015 2:36 pm : link
i originally did not want him at #9 but if we pass on the 34 OLBs, he's my guy. ordinarily i wouldn't want Scherff top 10 but this is a weak draft and he'd add an element to our line. last year, no way but this is not even close to last year's draft
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