Big Blue Interactive & #8207;@BigBlueInteract 2m2 minutes ago
Latest rumors we're hearing: Giants are indeed working on new deal with Jason Pierre-Paul, and will use franchise tag to get it done.
Big Blue Interactive & #8207;@BigBlueInteract 1m1 minute ago
Center J.D. Walton will be cut unless he accepts veteran minimum pay cut.
Big Blue Interactive & #8207;@BigBlueInteract 48s48 seconds ago
DE Mathias Kiwanuka may "retire."
Big Blue Interactive & #8207;@BigBlueInteract 23s23 seconds ago
Giants talking to LB Jon Beason about a re-structure. May add a year to his contract.
I don't care if Walton offered to play for free he should be cut. That guy cannot occupy a roster spot this year under any circumstances
It reduces JPPs leverage.
I hate the move from a cap perspective if we can't get a deal done but understand the scarcity of player that fit his profile.
And it buys them time. Takes the pressure off to get it done by a certain date.
Restructure for Beason is a little surprising. I'm guessing they would "restructure" his current 2015 base (i.e. guarantee some/all of it and spread it over 2016/2017), but also slash his current 2015 and 2016 roster bonuses. Could probably free $2-3M in 2015 space without making the contract crippling going forward if/when he gets injured.
There is inherent risk with JPP, not just with health but the effort doesn't always seem to be there. As far as I can see while I love his upside it seems like early on he was cruising on pure athleticism and his only other good year was a contract year. He is looking for a contract that prices him on the high end of his talent not properly pricing in those risk factors.
Like others have said I see this getting done at about $11M per with incentives and tiered roster bonuses. There is no doubt in my mind that some team would be willing to pay him the $13-14M per on the open market which is why i'm sure his camp is hoping we don't slap that tag on him. But IMO we would be stupid not to
I don't care if Walton offered to play for free he should be cut. That guy cannot occupy a roster spot this year under any circumstances
You cannot look at it that way. You have to have depth, especially vet depth. If they cannot find stronger depth for center he really needs to stay on the roster.
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Giants need to lock up JPP for the long-term. $13M per year should get the job done.
I don't care if Walton offered to play for free he should be cut. That guy cannot occupy a roster spot this year under any circumstances
You cannot look at it that way. You have to have depth, especially vet depth. If they cannot find stronger depth for center he really needs to stay on the roster.
Totally agree here with the added caveat that he is still coming back from a bad injury, it really can't hurt us to bring him back to camp this year and see if he wins a back up job. Our depth has been atrocious on the OL and he has played at a reasonably high level in the NFL. Let's see where he is at in camp before we tar, feather and cut him. (Obviously this is different if there is no pay cut involved but it looks like it's heading that way)
QUESTION on Beason "re-structure" - Is that a pay cut or just shuffling money around to give him bonus up front?
Probably will reduce/eliminate his 2015 roster bonus (cuts cap hit by $2.2M) and hopefully part of his 2016 bonus. Then will "restructure" his 2015 base which will likely convert it to a bonus that they can pro-rate over the remaining contract. So if its $3M, they have $1M in each of the next 3 years against the cap due to that bonus.
So the end result of something similar to the above would be a significant reduction in his 2015 cap number, a reduction in his 2016 cap #, and a slight cap hit in 2017. But 2015 is the big year. His contract doesn't really have enough guaranteed money involved that it'll be crippling moving forward even if he's ultimately cut next offseason.
Yeah, let's start a GoFundMe campaign for these poor guys.
I wish someone had me by the balls to the tune of 14 million. I just can't stop crying about the slave like condition of the players.
Yup, $6.7M and since it's unlikely Beason would take a significant straight pay cut, a "restructure" will likely free more cap room then even cutting him would. A straight cut would save $2.8M in space. A restructure with a slight increase in guaranteed money could save $3.5-4M.
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teams always have the players by the balls in the NFL.
I wish someone had me by the balls to the tune of 14 million. I just can't stop crying about the slave like condition of the players.
Relative to other sports, I meant.
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hopefully they can halve that hit.
Yup, $6.7M and since it's unlikely Beason would take a significant straight pay cut, a "restructure" will likely free more cap room then even cutting him would. A straight cut would save $2.8M in space. A restructure with a slight increase in guaranteed money could save $3.5-4M.
Beason isn't worth 4M. He can't stay healthy. He had everyone fooled that he was over his injuries in 2013. He is still injury prone and can't be counted on as our MLB.
Cut him.
The player has to agree to those changes too.
And it's not so much as gambling that he'll stay healthy, but deferring the costs they've already promised.
the issue with his contract is his health.
IF Reese needs to revamp the contract after one year, for any reason other than health, Reese made a bad contract.
And he got hurt last year, knee. So he gave it his all.
He was a professional through and through, and a true blue Giant.
If he is retiring, I can only say "Thank you and once a Giant always a Giant!"
Yeah makes sense. May the best backup win! Actually, scratch that... may Brett Jones turn out to be a stud signing! lol
So you would pay 6-7M for him this year?
Bingo!
tell him he can keep his salary, with the .9 guaranteed, but the 2.2 mil roster bonus is gone, deferred.
next year he's also due a 2.2 mil roster bonus, but his salary drops to 2.8. he can keep next year's roster, and give him a salary increase in lieu of this year's roster bonus.
he's worth the money if he can stay healthy. why on earth would anyone increase his guaranteed money knowing his health is an issue? turn his 2.2 mil roster bonus this year into a 'you'll get it if you stay healthy' deal. Under no circumstances do you give more guaranteed money to a guy who is at risk for being on the team due to health.
under this scenario, his cap for this year drops to just under 4 mil (there's some workout bonuses in there, too). sure, we can finagle that lower with converting salary/roster to a signing bonus, which then gets spread out, but that comes with the risk of increasing dead space if he injures out and you have to cut him.
Am not surprised about Kiwi -- had heard that as well.
he's what I refer to as a wannabe. he wannabe a starter, but is just shy. that is the best you can hope for as a vet backup. not what you want as a starter, but we're not talking starter. we're talking backup. You're not getting starting material to sit on the bench for minimum.
he's what I refer to as a wannabe. he wannabe a starter, but is just shy. that is the best you can hope for as a vet backup. not what you want as a starter, but we're not talking starter. we're talking backup. You're not getting starting material to sit on the bench for minimum.
Didn't Diehl start after having his salary cut to a million(effectively the minimum)?
Bonuses for being on the 53 or 46 man game day roster? Big difference considering his injury history.
BB'56: not sure what you're saying. I believe Diehl took a significant paycut and did end up starting. My sieve brain can't remember if he ended up starting because of injury to the projected starter. I seem to think so (Snee?). However that's the point of a backup. if something happens to the starter, the backup becomes the starter. IF that happens with Walton, yeah, I'd rather have someone better being the backup forced to start (a hidden all pro just waiting for his chance), but realistically, you're not finding a better backup for vet min. I think we both said the same thing, so I'm not sure what your latest comment was about.
He may not want that role and strikes me as a guy who won't want for options after he retires.
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hopefully they can halve that hit.
Yup, $6.7M and since it's unlikely Beason would take a significant straight pay cut, a "restructure" will likely free more cap room then even cutting him would. A straight cut would save $2.8M in space. A restructure with a slight increase in guaranteed money could save $3.5-4M.
They should just cut him outright. Don't kick the can down the road any further. 5
And he got hurt last year, knee. So he gave it his all.
He was a professional through and through, and a true blue Giant.
If he is retiring, I can only say "Thank you and once a Giant always a Giant!"
Thanks for everything he has done which to me was never much. That being said good luck to him in the future and great news for us.
There is also the draft too.
JPP is going to get signed so long as it isn't an unreal type of deal. I think both he and the Giants know he's had one great season (2011) and a strong finish (2014) against bad players to work on and that body of work doesn't warrant huge, huge up front money. Sorry, if JPP is an EFA and someone wants to lose tow #1's for him than I say BYE. We sign a free agent DE, draft a DE, and pray Cullen Jenkins can be the primary backup at DT, 4th DE for the whole year.
He'd be fine as a backup for minimum salary..Better alternative than Mosley and Brewer, imo
He'd be fine as a backup for minimum salary..Better alternative than Mosley and Brewer, imo
BB56 I really hope you are right and we haven't seen the best of Walton. If he had to start I would be concerned at this point. At this point we don't even know what Richburg brings to the table either
To that end, retaining JPP long-term is their primary goal, and with numbers the team likes will help keep some cap space free to look for a bookend DE via UFA.
They're going to be active looking for safeties, I expect to sign at least one young ascending UFA (insert Y28's targets here), and acquire a second promising talent at some point.
They'd like a RT upgrade, another ascending talent at DT via UFA. If they can complete this list, the rest of UFA would be depth and periphery signings, and they would be freed up for the draft.
No idea where they'd go at safety, but if it's still a need around draft time I wouldn't mind Derron Smith in the 2nd/3rd. Reminds me a lot of Eric Weddle.
Does anybody have some ideas for DE UFA targets?
At safety, what about Gilchrist from the Chargers? He seems to make plays at the best times.
To that end, retaining JPP long-term is their primary goal, and with numbers the team likes will help keep some cap space free to look for a bookend DE via UFA.
They're going to be active looking for safeties, I expect to sign at least one young ascending UFA (insert Y28's targets here), and acquire a second promising talent at some point.
They'd like a RT upgrade, another ascending talent at DT via UFA. If they can complete this list, the rest of UFA would be depth and periphery signings, and they would be freed up for the draft.
Heck Jon - even if this is not what they're saying - this is what makes sense!
Y28 mentioned Miles from the Ravens and I think one other young vet. Parker from the Chiefs figures to be too expensive, they're going to seek value at S and use the bigger dollars upfront, imo.
The draft wildcard, imv, is how they view Peat and Scherff, and will they target one at #9. They could gamble on one being available and bypass UFAs.
I don't care if Walton offered to play for free he should be cut. That guy cannot occupy a roster spot this year under any circumstances
No so. I'd keep Walton for vet/min because after Richburg, he may be the only guy on the team with NFL experience at center. He's not starter material but would be useful in a pinch. Now, if Schwartz could play center, or Pugh, I'd have to think about it. Then again, leaving the other starters where they are when your center gets hurt is a big plus. Keep Walton - keep him on the bench.
McPhee from the Ravens makes sense for the pass rush, Miles on the backend. Got to think they're looking long and hard at young Ravens.
Makes sense JonC. On the OL front I'd go as far as to say if we somehow bypass signing a quality starter like Franklin or Newton, it would almost be a given we like a couple guys in the draft and are going OL at 9. Or a much lesser chance but they love a couple other guys who they think can start right away that they also strongly believe will be there at 40.
No mention of LB , Jon? I realize we don't value the position as highly but still. A coverage LB perhaps?
To that end, retaining JPP long-term is their primary goal, and with numbers the team likes will help keep some cap space free to look for a bookend DE via UFA.
They're going to be active looking for safeties, I expect to sign at least one young ascending UFA (insert Y28's targets here), and acquire a second promising talent at some point.
They'd like a RT upgrade, another ascending talent at DT via UFA. If they can complete this list, the rest of UFA would be depth and periphery signings, and they would be freed up for the draft.
Good stuff Jon, thanks for the update:
Based on that information, seems the Giants think they will have enough cap space to tackle all those needs as they will not be cheap, which leads me to believe they are confident JPP will eventually sign long term and they can get one or both of Eli/Prince extended to lower their cap hits this year. (This is not taking into account the obvious Kiwi/Walton/Beason moves that are bound to happen)
Franklin would be ideal.
Worilds is a 3-4 fit, I doubt NYG would spend and gamble on a conversion project at DE.
Safety is a major hole in the defense. What is on the roster is unproven and Role could price himself out of a new contract. At the very least he is getting older.
The Giants are not going to let JPP go, at least not without heavy cost. I think JPP's agent explains the need for job security given JPP's nagging injury history. Take the long term deal with the Giants instead of risking playing under the franchise designation and risking long-term viability.
Eli and Prince will get long-term deals, which will provide a great deal of CAP relief. Wouldn't surprise me to see this happen prior to the start of FA, freeing up a significant amount of CAP space to go and grab a FA RT/OG, another DE, and a safety.
As far as possible targets are concerned. I have no idea what DE they would be looking to bring in as a Kiwi replacement. My problem with the FA DE class is anyone who is "good" is expensive, and anyone who is reasonably priced is a part time player. Much like QBs, teams don't let good pass rushers go. Not impressed with the top talent at the position in the draft either. Most of the DEs appear to fit best as 3-4 OLBs, or if they are a 4-3 DE there are holes in their game.
OL seems deeper (in both the draft and FA) and I really think the Giants will add at least one in FA and probably two in the draft.
Safety is going to be hard as well. Rolle might be the best on the market as I doubt NE lets McCourty hit hte market. There are some guys with good upside in the draft but no one that comes close to an Earl Thomas type player.
Reese has his work cut out for him. The trick will be not overpaying for average or declining talent in FA and finding younger guys at a reasonable price who have not hit their ceiling yet. The draft is a BPA draft. It's light on the top talent, but deep at many positions. I suppose this is why they (GMs) get paid the big bucks.
I agree! If he hits the open market the Giants better send a private plane to get get him.
How much below him are Searcy or Gipson? Would either be available?
Dude, I think we all know that. Pats aren't going to let him go. The grip is fully gotten and in effect.
Agree on Searcy..I could live with Gipson
Searcy would be my first choice at SS but I have a feeling he might command more money than NYG want to spend. Same for Ron Parker. I doubt McCourty hits the market.
I'd expect the Pats to franchise him if they can't sign McCourty long term.
Jackson and (unfortunately) Hosley are under contract for 2015 as well.
Hopefully they bring back Thurmond, but I think even if they do they'll either bring in another nickel CB or look for a CB in the first 3 rds. They seriously lack depth their and you need at least 3 solid CBs these days.
I like Chykie as a depth signing. I suspect Bowman's departure might help Hosley get back to camp one more time. I would like to have Thurmond back but I was worried the injuries would scare away NYG.
Zack Bowman
Bowman entered training camp this season pretty low on the cornerback depth chart, but ended up locking down the starting job for a stretch of games after Amukamara went down for the season. Bowman hardly embarrassed himself, putting his veteran savvy and experience to good use, and ending up with two interceptions, six pass deflections and a fumble recovery.
But by December Bowman had lost his starting job to newcomer Chykie Brown. There was no explanation given by the coaching staff, though, in fairness, at that point in the season these decisions sometimes get overlooked, especially with the Giants eliminated from contention. Bowman did have a couple of unflattering moments, such as his weak effort on a Marshawn Lynch touchdown run in Seattle, but his stats in pass coverage were solid enough that one has to wonder if the decision had to do with something off the field.
In fact, "solid" might be selling Bowman's coverage skills short. Guess who allowed the lowest completion percentage of any cornerback in the NFL? Yes, Bowman, allowed a mere 36.1 percent of passes to be completed in his coverage area and only a 75.1 quarterback rating when thrown at, though he did also allow four touchdowns.
Before seeing time in the base defense, Bowman's primary value had been on special teams, where he also did a good job, especially in punt coverage.
Bowman is 30 and a free agent, so he's hardly a lock to return, but the Giants may consider bringing him back to add to their cornerback depth for next season. As a fourth cornerback with special teams skills, you can't do much worse than Bowman.
Grade: B-
Chykie Brown
The Giants picked up Brown in November when he was waived by the Baltimore Ravens after four seasons. Brown was hardly a household name when he arrived, but by the end of the season he was starting alongside Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, replacing Zack Bowman.
Brown is a physical cornerback with decent speed, but has never really put it together over a full season. It is telling that he was waived by the Ravens not long after he was burned in pass coverage by the Steelers' Antonio Brown for a 54-yard touchdown, and he also gave up the game-winning touchdown catch to the Bengals' A.J. Green in a season-opening loss.
But Brown evidently impressed defensive coordinator Perry Fewell enough with his attentiveness in the classroom and hard work on the practice field that he earned himself the starting spot. Still, Brown did not exactly light it up as a starter, registering only one game in December with a positive pass coverage rating from Pro Football Focus and recording zero interceptions and two pass deflections in eight games with the team. Brown also allowed a 65.6 pass completion percentage in his coverage area, the highest among Giants cornerbacks.
With a new defensive coaching staff coming in next season, Brown's future with the organization is uncertain. Did he leave enough of an impression on Tom Coughlin that he'll be invited to training camp? Or does the potential return of Walter Thurmond and Trumaine McBride crowd him out?
Grade: C
Mike Harris
Harris followed a similar path as Chykie Brown joining the team at midseason, and ultimately showing enough that he earned regular playing time by the end of the season as the team's primary slot cornerback.
His superficial stats won't jump off the page, with only one interception and two pass deflections, but for a former practice squad player who was cut by two teams in 2014, for Harris to end up as the regular nickel back is a pretty solid accomplishment in and of itself. He doesn't have great size or speed, but Harris is a hard-nosed player with some "dog" in him. His 6.0 run stop percentage would put him in the top 12 among cornerbacks if he logged more defensive snaps.
Harris also did a solid job covering the slot for the Giants, better than any other regular nickel back they had this season, allowing only a 55.3 passer rating, and his 9.9 coverage snaps per reception rating placed him 22nd among cornerbacks who covered the slot for at least 25 percent of defensive snaps.
What grade would you give Mike Harris for the 2014 season?
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Like Brown, there's a chance Harris will be once again looking for other employment opportunities next season, though if the Giants are not happy with their options covering the slot, perhaps they bring Harris back for cornerback depth and special teams purposes.
Grade: B-
Trumaine McBride
McBride did a very nice job as a slot cornerback for the Giants in 2013 with two interceptions and 15 pass deflections, but found himself playing behind the newly-signed Walter Thurmond at nickel back to start the season. McBride reclaimed his nickel role when Thurmond tore his pectoral muscle in the second game, and was on his way to another solid season in 2014, with a sack, an interception, and 21 tackles before injuring his thumb against the Philadelphia Eagles in Week 7, ending his season.
McBride's 11.0 coverage snaps per reception rating (via PFF) was second-best on the team behind Zack Bowman, and his 9.8 coverage snaps per reception rating placing him in the top 25 among cornerbacks who covered the slot for at least 25 percent of all defensive snaps. McBride is not a great tackler in run support, but has a good body type for covering the shiftier slot receivers, and doesn't allow a lot of yards after the catch.
He is under contract for one more season, and figures to be back competing for his old nickel back role in 2015.
Grade: INC (only seven games played)
Jayron Hosley
It seems like the end has come for Hosley's Giants tenure. The third-year corner found himself suspended for the first four games of the season for violating the league's substance abuse policy, and found himself thrust into an important role not long after his return.
Injuries to Trumaine McBride and Walter Thurmond left Hosley as the next man up as the slot corner, and he didn't hold that job for very long, giving up the fourth-highest passer rating of any cornerback in the NFL in 2014. He subsequently lost his job as a regular after Week 12, and found himself inactive for the final five games of the season.
Grade: INC (only six games played)
Walter Thurmond III
It was a lost season for Thurmond, who came to the Giants in the offseason highly-touted for his coverage skills while playing for the Super Bowl champion Seattle Seahawks. Thurmond had the misfortune of tearing his pectoral muscle in the second week of the season, which hardly gave the Giants, or media, enough of a sample size to evaluate him.
Thurmond only signed a one-year deal with the Giants, and it's hard to see a robust free agent market for cornerbacks who played only one game coming off of a season-ending injury. Unless the Giants bring in another cornerback to compete for the nickel back role, I would expect Thurmond to be back in training camp with the Giants in 2015.
Grade: INC (only two games played)
Arizona State OL Jamil Douglas met with Giants yesterday. More guard than a tackle, but has seen action at both spots.
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Ralph Vacchiano 2 minutes ago
Arizona State G Jamil Douglas said he met with the Giants at the combine last night. One of many, obviously.
Mentioned in forecast that Giants were looking at OL. Was told staff working on Erek Flowers, Brandon Scherff, Cam Erving and La'el Collins
I'm sure they've already done their homework.
Remember that they don't always bring in guys or work with guys they feel strongly about. There've been years where they drafted first rounders who said they had no idea the team was interested.
Tom Telesco says Philip Rivers has "a lot of good years" ahead. Jerry Reese at end of year seemed a bit more ambivalent about Eli.
Tom Telesco says Philip Rivers has "a lot of good years" ahead. Jerry Reese at end of year seemed a bit more ambivalent about Eli.
of course he did.. Eli has a contract negotiation coming up... DUH...
Means nothing.. means no one saw them talking to him... OR they have already checked off all the boxes on him.. so no point in talking to him and drawing attention... OR they have him ranked much lower than 9.. OR they have no interest.. OR its complete misdirection LOL...