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Gordon vs Gurley comparison by Bucky Brooks from June 2014..

BlueLou : 2/17/2015 4:56 pm
Interestingly, Brooks rated Gordon better than Gurley even before Gordon's monstrous 2014 campaign and Gurley's knee injury. Brooks also threw out the idea that the 2015 draft will have a revival of sorts in the valuation of RBs - something I don't see any other draft analysts doing, although IIRC Kiper's latest mock had Gordon going at 16.

With all the chatter on BBI that addresses the question of whether Kevin White or DeVante Parker might be the "BPA" at 9 (at an impact position), I don't get why so few here don't think Gordon, coming to the Giants (who will always emphasize running as a big art of their O under TC), isn't an "impact" player...

Anyway enjoy the read, and then consider what Gordon did in 2014...
Who's better, Melvin Gordon or Todd Gurley? - ( New Window )
Bull crap!! Before Gurley got hurt  
Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 2/17/2015 5:52 pm : link
He was the best player in College Football!
Either would look good  
Beer Man : 2/17/2015 6:51 pm : link
in Blue. I don't think the Giants will use this year's first on a RB, and they should both be long gone before the Giants pick in the 2nd.
Because the modern pro game is a passing game  
JonC : 2/17/2015 6:54 pm : link
Teams have begun to draft and sign RBs more cheaply because their careers also tend to be shorter, and end by cliff fall.

At #9, it seems unlikely either RB will carry the grade. Let's see if that changes as scouting season picks up.

The example you provided lends weight to this as well  
JonC : 2/17/2015 6:56 pm : link
If Gordon is indeed rated #16 in the draft, and a WR is rated #9, it's clear which player you should draft. You really don't want to reach especially in the first round, especially in the top 10.

Love both players, and think Gurley would of been 1st  
jayg5 : 2/17/2015 7:25 pm : link
Rb taken in draft if he didn't get injured. I would love to have a rb on this team that can do it all instead of having rbs with different skill sets which many teams employ. Very doubtful, but if somehow Gurley is there with our 2nd pick I'd hope Reese would run to podium.
I would  
TommyWiseau : 2/17/2015 7:53 pm : link
Take Gurley in round two in a second. What a talent that kid is
Tommy, I agree  
jayg5 : 2/17/2015 8:01 pm : link
Best rb I've seen since A.P. in college imo
jay  
TommyWiseau : 2/17/2015 9:19 pm : link
If his knee checks out I would seriously consider moving up to the late 1st to take him. He is that good, he could turn this offense into the best in the league... assuming we fix the Oline and Cruz comes back
I've Been Hoping Gurley Would Be There in RD 2...  
Jim in Tampa : 2/17/2015 10:10 pm : link
Although it seems more likely he'll go somewhere in the mid-to-late twenties in RD 1.

Our current RBs are average at best. In fact their YPC is below average.

Imagine what a dominant RB would do for this team. It would open up our passing game and reduce the number of Eli's interceptions. Plus it would give us the ability to control the clock and rest the Defense.
You take Gordon at #9 if you see the total package  
SGMen : 2/17/2015 10:34 pm : link
If he can come out of college with the skills to run (yes), pass catch (not sure...) and pass block as a rookie than why not take him? Jennings is 30 years old. Williams is a bull back, for sure, but I'm not sold on his pass catching just yet.

I still have my "dream" that Mariotta is there at #9 and we "sell" him to Houston for their #1 and a starting OG or #3 or something like that. We select Gordon or even Gurley with the pick! And with the extra #3 we take an OL - likely a guard.
gordon makes all of the qualifications  
Carthonfan : 2/17/2015 11:09 pm : link
Of a top ten pick. High floor and high ceiling for his position. Dynamic playmaker who needs to be be game-planned for. Teams that gave quality running backs will run more often despite it being a passing league. I'm perplexed he's not rated higher than players that come no where near his production. If the Giants drafted him, they have a top 5 NFL back for the next four years. Think Levon Bell production.
I like Gordon a lot  
TommyWiseau : 2/17/2015 11:19 pm : link
Too but I would not take him at 9 as I feel you can find good RBs easier then most positions. In a trade down scenerio would I take him? Sure thing. I don't believe in spending a top 10 pick on a RB unless he is the second coming of Adrian Peterson
NOT A RECIEVER OUT OF BACKFIELD  
MiamiHurricaneFan : 2/17/2015 11:50 pm : link
i cannot stress how important that is for a RB........3 receptions out of the backfield in three seasons? is that some type of joke?

Duke Johnson is BETTER than all these guys.
they're different  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 2/18/2015 1:27 am : link
but I'd lean Gurley because he just seems like a safer prospect outside of the health. The ACL hurts him as a prospect but on the flipside I'd say the Wisconsin OL hurts Gordon as a prospect. I don't want another Dayne on our hands.

Gordon has a lot of Jamaal Charles in him. The explosiveness and running style. Always a home run threat.

But Gurley is the more experienced receiver, more powerful runner, and just seems to have a more fluid running style. He's a 3-down back that and I feel like he's less of a system-dependent talent than Gordon.

I don't want either at #9 though. Andre Williams was kind of disappointing but he's the type of runner who feels very OL-dependent. Kind of like Jacobs, he's a power runner that can't really create for himself but can power his way for chunks of yards if he's given a hole. I think improving the C/G situation will really boost Andre's game, which is why I want Collins or Scherff so bad.

I think investing in a 1st round OG would help the running game more than investing in a 1st round RB. But I'd still like to add a 3rd/4th round RB talent who has a little more explosiveness than Williams/Jennings and can catch the ball.
A couple of notes re the RBs in this draft... with the caveat again  
BlueLou : 2/18/2015 2:28 am : link
that I haven't followed college FB this year!

1) For all the talk about how this draft is deep in RB talent, CBS sports player rankings have something like 15 WRs ranked in their top 100 or so prospects and about half that many RBs. So maybe the WR talent is really significantly deeper than the RB talent?

2) Obviously these rankings (by anyone) will change, perhaps considerably, after the combine. Just as a toss off, let's say Kevin White runs a 3.55+ 40, and Gordon runs a 3.45 or less... And Gordon looks like a smooth hands catcher at the combine drills... Wouldn't that move Godon up considerably? Or White down? (Assuming other speed #s are in line with their 40s...)

3) I agree Duke Johnson is another back I'd consider very strongly and maybe jump all over him depending who else is there at slot 40. But will he be there? Various threads here have mentioned Duke in round 3, but if he posts combine #s like David Wilson did, no way he makes it to 82 or whatever our 3rd round slot is, IMO. Heck he might be gone by 40, as noted...

4) I doubt the Giants' RBs on the current roster factor into the decision to go after one of the top guys like Gordon, Gurley, Johnson, or Abdullah. Frankly that's comparing apples and oranges, or more likely Chevys and Porsches... You wanna Porsche, go buy a damn Porsche, don't tell me that what we need is a better highway (OL) to drive on... Although indeed, a Porsche driven on lumpy unpaved roads has limited value, or none at all!

5) Lastly - for Osi OY Veh - please don't compare Gordon to Dayne. Gordon is a whole different ball of wax, IMO, and his University be darned. Even just by stats, compare the YPC. Gordon's has been silly the past two years - Barry Sanders type stuff. Dayne was a workhorse and compiler, not a ffin' bomb ready to explode any play!
And for JonC - always appreciate your input -  
BlueLou : 2/18/2015 2:39 am : link
absolutely this team shouldn't reach at 9! The Giants could badly use a talent upgrade at so many positions - OL, DL, LB, S, TE, RB... about the only positions that look set are QB and CB, and CB is dependent on re-signing Prince, at least.

When I wonder about Gordon at 9, or any other RB at 40, it's because the specific players look like great value at those slots, at least to me. The one point we disagree on is the "positional value" of a WR vs an RB in COUGHLIN's scheme and prefered style. This team still wants to run the ball, and to run it on 2nd and 10...

And a great RB elevates an OL more than a great WR does, IMO...
Gordon had 343 carries in 2014. Dayne's high was 337.  
Big Blue Blogger : 2/18/2015 6:28 am : link
I'd say Gordon was a workhorse, at least his last year.

Another cautionary note about Gordon's stats. First, here they are, and they're spectacular:
ATT: 343 YDS: 2587 AVG: 7.5 TD: 29

Now, here are the combined figures for Wisconsin's next four leading rushers:
ATT: 262 YDS: 1865 AVG: 7.1 TD: 16

Crazy numbers all around... until they ran into Ohio State.
I can't find a college yards after contact number  
chris r : 2/18/2015 6:32 am : link
I bet its not high for Gordon. He looks to be untouched a lot.
I do like Duke Johnson a lot  
chris r : 2/18/2015 6:59 am : link
I see a lot of Marshall Faulk in his game. Really smooth, efficient in his cutting, great vision, catches the ball .

If he's there in the second I think he'd be great value.
I like Duke Johnson as well ...  
Beer Man : 2/18/2015 8:03 am : link
But I have mixed thoughts about him becoming a Giant. You have to love his explosiviness and home run ability, but his blocking is a major weakness (which could get our franchise QB killed).
RE: I like Duke Johnson as well ...  
chris r : 2/18/2015 8:05 am : link
In comment 12140813 Beer Man said:
Quote:
But I have mixed thoughts about him becoming a Giant. You have to love his explosiviness and home run ability, but his blocking is a major weakness (which could get our franchise QB killed).


I think its a mistake to draft or not draft a RB because of blocking. It seems that's a very coachable thing that most college RBs need to be coached up on.
RE: NOT A RECIEVER OUT OF BACKFIELD  
Jon in NYC : 2/18/2015 8:09 am : link
In comment 12140742 MiamiHurricaneFan said:
Quote:
i cannot stress how important that is for a RB........3 receptions out of the backfield in three seasons? is that some type of joke?

Duke Johnson is BETTER than all these guys.


Gordon ran maybe 15 routes in his entire career. He's better than Duke and it isn't that close.

I like Duke in the 3rd but Gordon is a 1st round guy. He's special.
how is gordon better than DUKE  
MiamiHurricaneFan : 2/18/2015 8:10 am : link
do i have to list the endless ammount of wisc RB that do nothing in the nFL.
Jon  
chris r : 2/18/2015 8:12 am : link
why do you think Gordon is different then the other Wisconsin backs who have busted?

You've seen more of him then I but from what I've seen he's got a lot of space to work with on most of his runs. Can he make things happen on his own like all great RBs have to sometimes?
BBB, good pickup on the stats line for the 4 RBs after Gordon  
BlueLou : 2/18/2015 8:21 am : link
for the Badgers this past year. Certainly that sounds a cautionary note re Gordon's gaudy stats and the role played by the Badgers' blockers.
Radar, I'd like to see Gordon's yards after contact numbers too but am more inclined to guess they were good not mediocre. Looking at the highlights from his record setting bowl game vs Auburn,who look like a pretty good D, I didn't see lots of gaping holes. Rather I saw Auburn stacking the LOS massively to stop him. And I can't remember ever seeing a back setting up his blocking, and using a combination of patience followed by a burst as well as just hitting holes like lightning the way Gordon does,time and again. Both he and Duke Johnson find holes most RBs don't see, regularly. The guy from Boise St. doesn't do that IMO, and in the highlights of him shown on another thread, he doesn't use cutblack lanes nearly so often. That guy is mostly following blocking lanes, IMO.
Jon, curious to hear what you think  
BlueLou : 2/18/2015 8:25 am : link
separates Gordon from previous Badgers' RBs, too.
another vote for Duke  
JonC : 2/18/2015 8:27 am : link
The top two picks of best value for NYG might be WR at #9 and RB at #40, when we're on the clock.
I am happy with Duke rnd 2,  
jayg5 : 2/18/2015 8:50 am : link
But if for some reason Gurley is there at 40 I take him and not think twice about it!
So many holes on this team.  
Curtis in VA : 2/18/2015 9:01 am : link
so many directions they could go. I really hope they patch up a lot of these in FA so they can have the freedom to just get good players like this in the draft.
Radar, have you looked at Gordon's bowl game  
BlueLou : 2/18/2015 10:27 am : link
snaps vs Auburn? He did not have "lots if space" then.
RE: A couple of notes re the RBs in this draft... with the caveat again  
Ty_1984 : 2/18/2015 11:17 am : link
In comment 12140756 BlueLou said:
Quote:
that I haven't followed college FB this year!

2) Obviously these rankings (by anyone) will change, perhaps considerably, after the combine. Just as a toss off, let's say Kevin White runs a 3.55+ 40, and Gordon runs a 3.45 or less... And Gordon looks like a smooth hands catcher at the combine drills... Wouldn't that move Godon up considerably? Or White down? (Assuming other speed #s are in line with their 40s...)




If any player runs the 40-yd dash in less than 4 seconds, I would ask the officials to recalibrate their stopwatches. Then I would draft both of them!
Lou  
JonC : 2/18/2015 11:22 am : link
It boils down to what NYG views as premium positions in the end : QB, DE, WR, LT, CB ... RB isn't on the shortlist, and therefore isn't in the mix at #9 unless the other positions are essentially empty.

And, I write this as a dude who played years of tailback himself!

At #40, there figures to be a few players of NYG interest, especially Duke Johnson.

I like Gordon a great deal, I'd draft him if the value met the draft position, which is probably closer to #15, at this point.

Re: Wisconsin back-up stats  
njm : 2/18/2015 11:28 am : link
You have to dig a little deeper on that one. First, the #3 rusher was Tanner McEvoy, who is actually a scrambling QB who had a bunch of 25-30 yard scrambles for TDs. Second, the #2 rusher was Corey Clements, who is generally considered to be a future 2nd or 3rd rd. draft pick. These weren't a couple of schlubs out there backing up Gordon.
RE: Lou  
chris r : 2/18/2015 11:35 am : link
In comment 12141207 JonC said:
Quote:
It boils down to what NYG views as premium positions in the end : QB, DE, WR, LT, CB ... RB isn't on the shortlist, and therefore isn't in the mix at #9 unless the other positions are essentially empty.

And, I write this as a dude who played years of tailback himself!

At #40, there figures to be a few players of NYG interest, especially Duke Johnson.

I like Gordon a great deal, I'd draft him if the value met the draft position, which is probably closer to #15, at this point.


JonC - I'm wondering how you know what the Giants view as premium positions.

What you've listed doesn't seem very accurate. They had just paid Beatty big LT money and draft Pugh in the first round so obviously they didn't project him at LT. They drafted Wilson in the first round and apparently loved Spiller when he came out.

I think we try to deduce Giants preferences from far to small of a sample to be confident about the results.
radar  
JonC : 2/18/2015 11:42 am : link
You're basically plucking a few exceptions from later in the first round. Reese has openly spoken of premium positions especially in the top 15, it's been written and talked about for a number of years.

There are exceptions where they will weigh various factors against each other based on where they're picking (Wilson was picked #32, not top 15), can the player handle multiple positions (Pugh, and they spelled out the belief he could play LT in the future, also picked outside the top 15), etc.

I addressed this question to you a week or two ago, as well.
... this question from you ...  
JonC : 2/18/2015 11:44 am : link
.
Giants First round running backs  
gidiefor : Mod : 2/18/2015 12:07 pm : link
[[[[[[[[[ Give me shudders ]]]]]]]]]]]

It's kinda like the BBI Trophy
RE: Jon  
Jon in NYC : 2/18/2015 12:30 pm : link
In comment 12140827 chris r said:
Quote:
why do you think Gordon is different then the other Wisconsin backs who have busted?

You've seen more of him then I but from what I've seen he's got a lot of space to work with on most of his runs. Can he make things happen on his own like all great RBs have to sometimes?


There are a few things. If you are looking for a RB who can create, watch the season opener against LSU. Their front 7 crushed our line all day, and Gordon was cutting inside and creating the entire time.

Also, you can look at the talent we have on the line vs past years. Montee Ball for example ran behind Gabe Carimi (1st rounder), Travis Frederick (1st rounder) Peter Konz (1st Rounder) Kevin Zeitler (1st rounder) and Rick Wagner (4th rounder, currently starts for Ravens).

For Gordon's line, Havenstein may be a late rounder, but no one else is poised to be drafted.
gidiefor: Aw, come on.  
Big Blue Blogger : 2/18/2015 12:53 pm : link
Rodney Hampton was a pretty good pick. That was only 25 years ago!
Gordon is one of my favorites in the draft  
KWALL2 : 2/18/2015 1:24 pm : link
Where do you value a can't miss impact player? Is #9 too high because he plays RB? He can get you 2000 yards from scrimmage and a lot of long TDs.

As a runner he has everything you want. Instant acceleration. Can cut and explode. He runs hard and can make people miss in tight spots. But it isn't just the running ability.

Arrow is pointing up in terms of NFL upside because they did not tap into his game as a pass catcher. Rutgers made the same mistake with Ray Rice. Running the routes Rice did in the NFL is easy to do. Without any college receiving experience Rice was an instant impact receiver out of the backfield in the NFL. Gordon will do the same.

If Gordon goes to the a team that will use him in the pass game he'll be a weapon. No doubt about it. He's explosive and quick. He'll get wide open in the NFL. The lack of catches in college means nothing. Catching a football is easy. Getting a guy like this in space is easy too. He'll be an NFL weapon in the pass game.

Gordon has a much higher floor than a lot of the guys being talked about at #9. And his upside is as high as any offensive player in the draft.
this is not  
Carthonfan : 2/19/2015 12:55 am : link
Montee Ball or Ron Dayne... this guy has a TON of yards after contact and big plays in which the blocking wasn't there. He gets to the edge as good as any back in the game. He runs between the tackles with vision and power. His acceleration through the hole is tremendous. His balance just as good. He can catch when called upon but it wasn't a big part of the UW playbook. Alot of the criticism above is from folks that clearly did not watch Gordon the past two years. This obsession with not taking early 1st round RBs is nonsense. KWALLS hit the nail on the head. You are talking about an instant playmaker- not sure what else you might want in a red chip draft at 9. If there was a WR with a similar pedigree and production, take him... but there isnt.
MGIII  
Carthonfan : 2/19/2015 1:01 am : link
Has the second highest yards per carry in NCAA history. Ron Dayne is #190 and ran behind better olines. They are not comparable in any way - statistically or skills-wise.
I dont trust Big Ten RB's  
blueblood : 2/19/2015 1:29 am : link
just dont...
RE: I dont trust Big Ten RB's  
Jon in NYC : 2/19/2015 7:40 am : link
In comment 12142561 blueblood said:
Quote:
just dont...


Gordon played two SEC teams this year and rushed for 391 on 50 carries (7.82 yards per carry).
trust?  
Carthonfan : 2/19/2015 8:25 am : link
What does this have to do with a uniquely skilled, high character, and off the charts production guy? Have you seen him play?
Both RBs look good  
mrvax : 2/19/2015 8:45 am : link
but both are similar to our Williams in that they are not polished receivers.

If either of these guys was a proven safety valve, I think they would be in consideration for a first round pick.
Just read KWALL's  
mrvax : 2/19/2015 8:48 am : link
post. If the Giants know these guys can easily catch dump offs, then they are in play. I only checked experience in college.
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