First day of on-field timing, drills and workouts are not only finally here, but we'll start seeing separation for players that are under what many people consider our #1 need, an offensive lineman.
The frontrunners at tackle are of course Stanford's
Andrus Peat, Iowa's
Brandon Scherff and LSU's
La'el Collins. After 37 reps on the bench yesterday, my favorite OT, Miami's
Ereck Flowers could solidify a spot in the top 10 with a strong workout on field today. Keep an eye on the workouts of
Jake Fisher and
DJ Humphries. With good ones I think they could start seeing 1st rd buzz. A few other tackles who I think will improve their stock today are
Donovan Smith and
Rob Havenstein. Versatile sleepers are
Sean Hickey,
Andrew Donnal and
Mitch Morse.
Cedric Ogbuehi of course will not be working out.
The top interior lineman are
AJ Cann and
Laken Tomlinson. Cann could go in Rd 1.
Cameron Erving, who started the season as one of the nation's top OT's goes into the combine as arguably the top C. Small school star
Ali Marpet had a big week at the Senior Bowl and can continue his ascent with a strong combine. I think he'll run a sub-5 40. A couple of sleepers are
Jon Feliciano,
Andrew Gallik and
Max Garcia. A huge omission here is McNeese State's
Antoine Everett. He was invited but there will be more about him throughout the process.
At TE the top two are
Maxx Williams and
Clive Walford but the #3 spot is wide open. NJ's own
Nick Boyle could grab that spot. Penn St.'s
Jesse James could too. The draft advisory board suggested the underclassman go back to Happy Valley but he has freakish athleticism for someone 6'7". He could blow up the combine. The only TE that I know of who won't be working out is
Rory 'Busta' Anderson.
Lastly, ST doesn't get much attention but a player who I hope gets mentioned is the lone long snapper, Navy's
Joe Cardona. Not only for planning to serve our country but because he's a damn good long snapper. People will chide the position but ST coaches are well aware of him and when he's ready/able, he'll be in the league. He's been clocked at snapping the ball faster than anyone else (41 mph), does it for punts and FGs, and is perfect every time.
I won't be able to post all 40 times today like previous years so if someone wants to take the task, thanks. I will on Saturday and Sunday. There's also the
Google Docs link. Coverage begins on NFL Network at 9.
On a side note I was disappointed that Andrus Peat elected not to participate in the bench press. I haven't heard any medical reason he declined. This is a young man that is getting labeled 'soft' for one reason or another, PERHAPS UNFAIRLY. Competing head on with all comers across the board and performing well could have gone a long way to establishing himself as 'the guy to beat' as the first OT off the board in this draft. Sure he can lift at his Pro Day it just speaks to the mindset of the young man imo.
La'el Collins looks really solid when he's on the move. He is athletic enough for LT...but I do agree his best spot might be inside. He could be an All Pro there.
La'el Collins looks really solid when he's on the move. He is athletic enough for LT...but I do agree his best spot might be inside. He could be an All Pro there.
On a side note I was disappointed that Andrus Peat elected not to participate in the bench press. I haven't heard any medical reason he declined. This is a young man that is getting labeled 'soft' for one reason or another, PERHAPS UNFAIRLY. Competing head on with all comers across the board and performing well could have gone a long way to establishing himself as 'the guy to beat' as the first OT off the board in this draft. Sure he can lift at his Pro Day it just speaks to the mindset of the young man imo.
IIRC- Peat stated on NFL Radio he is waiting until his pro day to lift due to an injury he sustained working out.
Completely nasty demeanor and highly competitive...and loves football. Man do the Giants need that on their line.
Also I was watching some of Benardrick McKinney the other day and it said he ran in the 4.5s or better. If he runs that fast is he a top 12-15 pick? I like him a lot anyway. Would not mind the Giants drafting him at 9 at all.
Flowers is a little rawer than some of the OL they have targeted early. I think with the pressure they are under they are more likely to go with someone like Peat or Collins who can come in now and play
Quote:
I think they value tackles so much more than guards in the 1st round. Does anyone think he's a no brainer pick over Scherff?
Flowers is a little rawer than some of the OL they have targeted early. I think with the pressure they are under they are more likely to go with someone like Peat or Collins who can come in now and play
I think he's really raw for LT...but if they move Pugh to LG...Flowers could start day 1 at RT.
DE/OLB measurements: Fowler/FLA (6025, 261), Gregory/NEB (6047, 235), Ray/MIZZOU (6025, 245), Beasley/CLEM (6030, 246).
La'el Collins looks really solid when he's on the move. He is athletic enough for LT...but I do agree his best spot might be inside. He could be an All Pro there.
I have been trying to get you in other threads. What do you think of Mark Glowinski from WVU? 31 reps yesterday for a guard.
I know everybody has us going Oline. We are set on the line at 4 positions. I can't see us going Oline in the 1st. I would be shocked to see us pass on D in the 1st. So many good players. Gregory, Fowler, McKinney, Shelton.
DE/OLB measurements: Fowler/FLA (6025, 261), Gregory/NEB (6047, 235), Ray/MIZZOU (6025, 245), Beasley/CLEM (6030, 246).
Beasley came in heavier than I thought. I also thought Gregory would try to put on more.
Medical probing knocked #rutgers TE Tyler Kroft out if the #NFLCombine. Ankle swelled. Won't work out
Quote:
as much as how these guys look when they move.
La'el Collins looks really solid when he's on the move. He is athletic enough for LT...but I do agree his best spot might be inside. He could be an All Pro there.
I have been trying to get you in other threads. What do you think of Mark Glowinski from WVU? 31 reps yesterday for a guard.
Dep, FWIW I'm a fan of Glowinski. I forgot to mention him in my writeup at the top but he's an underrated athlete. He played tackle in junior college and was an All American. WVU moved him to G and he's more than held his own. He had a very good Shrine Week last month and attracted a lot of attention. I like him more than his fellow guard from WVU in this draft Quninton Spain who had more buzz at the start of the season. I'd be interested in your input as well Sy.
Also I was watching some of Benardrick McKinney the other day and it said he ran in the 4.5s or better. If he runs that fast is he a top 12-15 pick? I like him a lot anyway. Would not mind the Giants drafting him at 9 at all.
As of right now...subject to slight changes:
1 - Shane Ray
2 - Randy Gregory
3 - Nate Orchard
4 - Dante Fowler
5 - Vic Beasley
And McKinney is one of two guys that I think have a shot at coming out of nowhere and creeping towards the top 10.
Glowinski is a 6th rounder on my sheet right now....still want to get another look or two. He doesn't control guys the way I want and he doesn't make up for it with athletic ability either. Hard to see him being more than a backup.
Glowinski is a 6th rounder on my sheet right now....still want to get another look or two. He doesn't control guys the way I want and he doesn't make up for it with athletic ability either. Hard to see him being more than a backup.
I was his teacher in HS, and he is just an awesome kid. I hope he gets drafted, he deserves it. I dont think he will be an all-pro or anything, but I hope he catches on with someone.
Didn't look as good in his kick slides...which has been my major concern with him on tape.
2nd/3rd, probably closer to the 3rd.
I have him graded as a 1st rounder.
Quote:
where are you projecting Nate Orchard to go in the draft?
2nd/3rd, probably closer to the 3rd.
I have him graded as a 1st rounder.
what's the biggest knock on him?
His production is off the chart....size is the same as Fowler. Is level of competition a concern?
Thanks for the info.
DE/OLB measurements: Fowler/FLA (6025, 261), Gregory/NEB (6047, 235), Ray/MIZZOU (6025, 245), Beasley/CLEM (6030, 246).
None of those are really positive with regards to NYG. Is Dupree there?
#9 appears awfully high for Flowers, at this stage.
Beatty, Pugh, Richburg, Schwartz, Flowers is a a nice line.
Then sign a veteran swing tackle like Doug Free, draft Ali Marpet in the 3rd or 4th round to pair with Mosely as backup guards. Jones, Gettis, Walton and Reynolds (4 players) compete for the backup Center spot. Or 3 if Walton gets cut.
I agree Flowers looks like a strong fit for NYG at RT, but is he going to carry the value/grade at #9? Uncertain, so far.
I know everybody has us going Oline. We are set on the line at 4 positions. I can't see us going Oline in the 1st. I would be shocked to see us pass on D in the 1st. So many good players. Gregory, Fowler, McKinney, Shelton.
I agree. LG/RT is also an "urgent" need and I think they'll fill it via FA. I do think they'll look OL in rds 2-4 though. TJ Clemmings sounds intriguing if he lasts to #40.
I think they go defensive playmaker at #9 though.
Why? It's a prime spot to get your cornerstone LT and I'm not comfortable resting on my laurels with Beatty in the long run. Grab the LT when you can as you're likely only getting him via the premium draft pick.
Peat-Pugh-Richburg-Schwartz-Franklin ... for example.
I just can't seen them cutting Beatty or drafting a Peat and then sitting him. You want try do draft an immediate starter at this spot.
And he himself is a little undersized for an NFL Guard.
If they go bargain shopping for a Jerry or Boothe type OL to fill the last spot, then OL is likely at the top of the board come draft.
The best numbers from the guys in the convo at 9. If he is in fact a guard he would be a very athletic one.
He was strong against FSU, not being bull rushed dramatically by Edwards, who is very strong but only has that one pass rush move. But he just didn't nail his blocks in the running game in several games, including that one.
Did anyone see what I saw in his play?
Next offseason is another story though, which is the main reason I think a guy like Peat (or whoever) makes sense at #9. Not as a 2015 starter.
If yes, the Giants might consider not signing a FA because that's where the talent is going to be at 9.
Ideally they'd sign a FA and trade down IMO though.
Frankly, I think that Beatty would be an attractive trade target for some team looking for LT help. But we'd need to get at least two OTs in order to let him go, as we all know.
Next offseason is another story though, which is the main reason I think a guy like Peat (or whoever) makes sense at #9. Not as a 2015 starter.
Fair enough, either way I'm all for drafting a LT at #9 if the value/grade is there. Beatty's presence, his contract, the draft pick not playing right away etc wouldn't affect my decision. I want the best premium player and fit.
Quote:
they probably won't draft an OT at #9, but I would, if the value/grade is there. Beatty could be a June 1 cut this year without creating a ton of damage.
Frankly, I think that Beatty would be an attractive trade target for some team looking for LT help. But we'd need to get at least two OTs in order to let him go, as we all know.
Yes. We would need someone to..you know, start at LT.
Fair enough, either way I'm all for drafting a LT at #9 if the value/grade is there. Beatty's presence, his contract, the draft pick not playing right away etc wouldn't affect my decision. I want the best premium player and fit.
Partly agree, but I think a premier pass rusher is sorely needed even if JPP is retained and those are arguably harder to find than LTs. That's why my preferred approach (as of now) is DE at #9 and then someone with the athleticism to play LT in 1-2 years, but is considered a little raw now (like Clemmings) at #40. But I also probably think higher of Beatty than most.
And I'm warming to the idea of McKinney or another defensive playmaker at #9 as well.
I'm with you on that one Rich! I was pretty impressed with him during the Sr. bowl practices.
Good for him.
Quote:
Fair enough, either way I'm all for drafting a LT at #9 if the value/grade is there. Beatty's presence, his contract, the draft pick not playing right away etc wouldn't affect my decision. I want the best premium player and fit.
Partly agree, but I think a premier pass rusher is sorely needed even if JPP is retained and those are arguably harder to find than LTs. That's why my preferred approach (as of now) is DE at #9 and then someone with the athleticism to play LT in 1-2 years, but is considered a little raw now (like Clemmings) at #40. But I also probably think higher of Beatty than most.
And I'm warming to the idea of McKinney or another defensive playmaker at #9 as well.
Edge rusher is absolutely needed, but I don't see him in this crop, so far. A ton of 3-4 OLBs who would be tweeners in a 4-3. Dupree is the prospect I need to see more of.
And then of course there is his love for the game. This from the Graziano article on Scherff's possible move to OG:
"I don't know that it would be a challenge," he said. "I like run blocking, and I know sometimes when you're in there you get help from the center. It would be a smooth move for me, I think. And I'll be happy wherever they want me to play, guard, tackle, whatever."
"I like run blocking," That was almost enough for me to change my opinion. But still, with the Giants not realyl having the LT of the future on the roster and Beatty with two years remaining on his contract. I think OT makes far more sense than OG, even if he is one of best to come out in recent memory.
No big deal, he'll never be running 40yds at one time in the NFL anyway. Well almost never.
I'll just say I've gone from absolutely not on Scherff, to "I could see what the Giants are thinking there."
Flowers is rapidly becoming the OT I would take at #9. Seems to be the prototype, with a nasty streak.
Edge rusher is absolutely needed, but I don't see him in this crop, so far. A ton of 3-4 OLBs who would be tweeners in a 4-3. Dupree is the prospect I need to see more of.
Yea, it was disappointing seeing all the top guys weighing in around 235-245 lbs. If they were in the 255+ range, it would be a lot more believable that they could add enough weight to anchor the run.
Could you provide a link to these reports???
And then of course there is his love for the game. This from the Graziano article on Scherff's possible move to OG:
"I don't know that it would be a challenge," he said. "I like run blocking, and I know sometimes when you're in there you get help from the center. It would be a smooth move for me, I think. And I'll be happy wherever they want me to play, guard, tackle, whatever."
"I like run blocking," That was almost enough for me to change my opinion. But still, with the Giants not realyl having the LT of the future on the roster and Beatty with two years remaining on his contract. I think OT makes far more sense than OG, even if he is one of best to come out in recent memory.
Beatty's got 3 years left, but a cap hit ~$9-9.5M the last 2 years and significant cap savings (if desired) available by cutting him.
I hate my phones auto correct.. How do you turn off the auto correct for the iphone?
Quote:
During ok drills. Came up limping. With a trainer. Hopefully it's nothing.
I hate my phones auto correct.. How do you turn off the auto correct for the iphone?
Drop it in the toilet?
NFL Network - ( New Window )
With what happened to Tyler Kroft, I don't blame him.
Quote:
That I have not been a fan of taking Scherff as I don't "believe" in taking OGs in the top 10. Top 15 really. But you cannot deny the guy is a very intriguing prospect. Can he play OT in the NFL, sure, but he would be a pro-bowl Guard. His measureables are simply eye popping and he is known as a technician. Great speed an agility for a big man.
And then of course there is his love for the game. This from the Graziano article on Scherff's possible move to OG:
"I don't know that it would be a challenge," he said. "I like run blocking, and I know sometimes when you're in there you get help from the center. It would be a smooth move for me, I think. And I'll be happy wherever they want me to play, guard, tackle, whatever."
"I like run blocking," That was almost enough for me to change my opinion. But still, with the Giants not realyl having the LT of the future on the roster and Beatty with two years remaining on his contract. I think OT makes far more sense than OG, even if he is one of best to come out in recent memory.
Beatty's got 3 years left, but a cap hit ~$9-9.5M the last 2 years and significant cap savings (if desired) available by cutting him.
I stand corrected. Thanks for the detail. If the Giants sign a RT and draft an OT, cutting Beatty next year makes too much sense.
Really wish he had the game tape to back up the measureables. The question is whether he is a diamond in the rough or not.
Quote:
.
Really wish he had the game tape to back up the measureables. The question is whether he is a diamond in the rough or not.
If his production matched his measurables ,he wouldn't be available at 9 let alone 5.
I stand corrected. Thanks for the detail. If the Giants sign a RT and draft an OT, cutting Beatty next year makes too much sense.
Yea, that's why I think if they have 2 guys rated close (say Peat v Collins v Flowers), I can see them taking one of the latter two since most reports say those guys can start Day 1 at LG/RT (depends on what the Giants really think of Pugh). Then 2016 you slide the guy over to LT. Or 2017 if Beatty has another good year and shows no signs of his play slipping.
Also gives them the option to take another Brewer/Whimper type athlete in the mid-rounds and try to develop him (I realize they haven't been good in this department since Diehl).
Hickey looked good too.
I think these combine positional drills are something that gets underrated. Watching all these guys perform right next to each other is a nice way to compare them, although obviously there are no pads on.
Last year I remember everyone saying "Odell Beckham was easily the most impressive WR during positional drills". I remember a lot of media and BBI'ers commenting on that.
I'd love to see how Collins looked in the drills compared to Scherff, or how Peat looked compared to Flowers, etc.
Paraphrasing Mayock on Flowers...'chance to play LT but looks like a RT to me'.
Tomlinson had a real solid performance among the OG's following up an excellent Senior Bowl week. If we pass on OL #9 he'd be my target in Round 2.
Flowers does seem to be the Giants type of pick
DT Shelton
OT Flowers
Guys I need to see a bit more of this weekend:
DE Dupree
SS/OLB Shaq Thompson (but would prefer a trade down to get him)
I think he needs to be in the discussion in the Top 15 at least. He could play safety on 1st and 2nd down and then drop to LB in the nickel. Could play OLB in the "big nickel" as well.
He seemed to do it all in college. Anyone know if he ever returned kicks?
Quote:
If he can verify dynamic athleticism here he will be a riser.
I think he needs to be in the discussion in the Top 15 at least. He could play safety on 1st and 2nd down and then drop to LB in the nickel. Could play OLB in the "big nickel" as well.
He seemed to do it all in college. Anyone know if he ever returned kicks?
Will answer my own question. He returned kicks and punts on a limited basis as a freshman
Shaq Thompson - ( New Window )
Fowler, by contrast, is 6'3" and 261 but has 33 3/4" arms.
Harold coming in at 247, likely 5-10 lbs below his playing weight, says he's going for OLB. He is still relatively long, 6'3" with 33" arms, but he wants to slim down and get fast. Don't be surprised though if he cracks 4.5.
Walford is surprising, good thing the Giants are high on Donnel.
Compared to Williams, Boyle and O'Leary, he's a burner.
Does anyone know if the MacAdoo system calls for more athletic guards than others? I seem to recall that but am not sure.
Quote:
4.9 for Maxx and 4.79 for Walford...horrible
Walford is surprising, good thing the Giants are high on Donnel.
Walford can block. Something Donnell can't do.
Does anyone know if the MacAdoo system calls for more athletic guards than others? I seem to recall that but am not sure.
Also had 30 reps on the bench. He must have destroyed DIII talent.
Quote:
In comment 12145209 Coach Mason said:
Quote:
4.9 for Maxx and 4.79 for Walford...horrible
Walford is surprising, good thing the Giants are high on Donnel.
Walford can block. Something Donnell can't do.
very true
Quote:
40 times are not overly important for an OL, but it does show that he moves very well for a man his size. Better than a lot of these TEs. I see a role for him at the next level for sure.
Does anyone know if the MacAdoo system calls for more athletic guards than others? I seem to recall that but am not sure.
Also had 30 reps on the bench. He must have destroyed DIII talent.
Not to say he won't be a good NFL player as the tape apparently looks good too (albeit against lesser comp).
But for some perspective, check out Mosely's combine numbers. There were one of the best overall too.
Opinions will differ.
A combo tight end who can help a team in the running game and through the air, Walford can be moved around the field. He lacks the elite athletic traits to be a game-changer at the position, but he is becoming a premium blocker.
Link - ( New Window )
For an offensive lineman or DT to be in that conversation, they have to be way above the available talent level in those areas. Are any of these offensive lineman or DT's that? Is there an OT that is a ten year lock down star? Or a DT that is an unbelievably disruptive force? I see a lot of good players but not players that jump off the page as can't miss prospects. The difference between the "best" 1 or 2 offensive linemen and the next 10 doesn't seem to be that great. IMHO
I don't know if this is how NFL teams think and I clearly don't have the expertise to comment but when I look at a player I try to think of all the ways he can help the team. Can he do more than one thing and do them well. The more things he can do at a high level, the more value I place on that player. Take all the names away and if you told a GM he could have a guy that could do the following at an NFL starter or pro-bowl level, would you take him in the top 10:
1. Starting SS in a 4-3
2. Starting WLB in a 4-3
3. very strong special teams player on punt and kickoff coverage
4. Ability to return kicks and punts
5. A threat to score with the ball in his hands.
My approach may be out of sync, but when I look at Shaq Thompson I see great potential for upgrades across the board on defense and special teams.
Would any of us be surprised if he runs 4.5?
Quote:
didn't seem overly impressed with Walford's blocking.
Opinions will differ.
Quote:
A combo tight end who can help a team in the running game and through the air, Walford can be moved around the field. He lacks the elite athletic traits to be a game-changer at the position, but he is becoming a premium blocker.
Link - ( New Window )
I think it is more of a comparative comment. Walford can block...better than Donnel.
Right, should not have left that out. I tend to think more in terms of "weapons" vs "positions".
Jon, right now I am thinking Dupree or Flowers. Flowers impressed me these past two days. Dupree will have his chance.
If both are gone, I'm leaning toward Shelton or a trade down and take Shaq Thompson or Collins from LSU
Collins is an OG imv, way too early for Shaq.
Collins is an OG imv, way too early for Shaq.
I think Flowers is a LT or a RT.
I'm not convinced of Fowlers ability to play DE in the 4-3
I think Dupree can do it, but I want to see his athleticism on display
You're probably right about Collins, which is why I could only see him being a pick in a trade down
Shaq defies conventional wisdom, but I just keep getting sucked back in. Admittedly I may not be thinking straight. I know I couldn't see him a #9, but at 15+? I could see it, not sure Reese can.
My biggest issue with this draft is I do not "love" any of the DE talent that project as 1st round picks. I really hope one emerges, but I just keeping seeing inconsistent pass rushers who disappear for big stretches. Really want to be wowed.
Do you think Clemmings could last until the Giants pick in round 2?
My calculation on Shelton is simply that he is one of the few can't miss defensive prospects. Would be hard to say no too...unless Flowers was there or Dupree impressed.
Clemmings in the first two rounds scares me, exactly the type of risk pick I despise. Skurred of that one.
Clemmings in the first two rounds scares me, exactly the type of risk pick I despise. Skurred of that one.
With you 100% on Fowler, don't like it at all
I think Clemmings' potential and athleticism will get him drafted no later than round 2. I do think a team could take a flyer on him in round 1. Share your concerns though
Still undecided if #9 is a good place to be this year, or if 15-20 is better.
I agree, I think he reinforced his detractors. I still think he will be a solid player, but not top 10 worthy, sadly.
Marpet in round 2 o 3? Would prefer three but he may have slide into the latter half of round 2. I like this guy
I would argue he didn't play all that well. I think part of moving him around was to protect him from allowing opposing OLs to scheme against him. He just disappears far too much for my liking, and I don't see much in the way of run defense.
That in fact may be the reality
DeVante Parker.
Flowers I do not think can ever be a LT. Collins I think can. I really think Amari Cooper is being unfairly scrutinized. He may not have the height/weight/speed of other WR's but he is the type of player that has a lot of success in the NFL
was shocked by that, especially considering all the criticism that he was soft to begin with. He seemed to miss his opportunity today.
Agreed - he looked real flabby. Sometimes that doesn't matter (like Andre Smith) but the little i've seen of him in games hasn't seem particularly impressive either. I've seen Flowers a lot more but beyond that he has an unquestioned toughness and work ethic that I think elevates him if all else is equal.
Quote:
I'm on board the Flowers bandwagon or hoping we get one of the WR's.
Flowers I do not think can ever be a LT. Collins I think can. I really think Amari Cooper is being unfairly scrutinized. He may not have the height/weight/speed of other WR's but he is the type of player that has a lot of success in the NFL
Mike, good comments, but I am completely 180 out from you on Flowers vs Collins. I agree with Jon that Collins is most like an OG and maybe a RT, while Flowers is absolutely a RT and probably a LT. Jon may not agree on the LT part.
I also think that Cooper is being unfairly scrutinized. He is falling victim to last year's stellar WR class. Cooper is the most polished of the top 3. Mayock and others rate White as #1, and i can see why. He might have the biggest upside. But my concern with White is the lack of separation he gets despite his speed. Cooper is not regarded as a "blazer" but is still plenty fast and gets consistent separation with good hands. I think Cooper is the ready to play from day 1 and I think White needs to work on the important details.
I think Cooper is 1, and White and Parker are !B. All will have good careers.
He actually looked to move very very well, especially for a man of his size.
I might be there as well
I want my tackles closer to 6'6 330, and way back I recall the regime indicating they preferred 6'5/6'6 320+ ... which leads us to Peat, Scherff, and Flowers as the closest fit to total package size and skillset. Imv.
He is a clean slate as far as technique goes
If scherffs gone clemmings has to b in the discussion at 9
That's definitely a fair concern - size wise he's a little bigger than many top LT's and his style is not that of a "glider". But there have been similar concerns for many other top 10 tackles in the past, including Jake Long and Tyron Smith. With Beatty & Pugh on the roster my preference would be to add more of a power player into the mix anyway, and think Flowers definitely has all the tools to be a top RT.
He's also still a kid, carries a lot of baby fat to my eye, but he will be a huge man, 330-340 without the baby fat.
The questions regarding his toughness etc will be answered now too.
I want my tackles closer to 6'6 330, and way back I recall the regime indicating they preferred 6'5/6'6 320+ ... which leads us to Peat, Scherff, and Flowers as the closest fit to total package size and skillset. Imv.
That's why the Pugh selection was a bit of a surprise. I always thought the Giants tended to look for length/size/speed/power at T. Not that I'm complaining, Pugh has been decent, but he seems to be a guy that is outside of the mold we usually look for in prospects.
Quote:
is he's smallish, and Collins is roughly similar in hght/wght. Some posters will argue it's not a big difference, but it can be especially when you add in arm length, lateral movement, leg kick, etc.
I want my tackles closer to 6'6 330, and way back I recall the regime indicating they preferred 6'5/6'6 320+ ... which leads us to Peat, Scherff, and Flowers as the closest fit to total package size and skillset. Imv.
That's why the Pugh selection was a bit of a surprise. I always thought the Giants tended to look for length/size/speed/power at T. Not that I'm complaining, Pugh has been decent, but he seems to be a guy that is outside of the mold we usually look for in prospects.
I think they fell in love with Pugh, and targeted him. Given the OL holes, they grabbed him. One of their scouts agreed with me on that.
He is a clean slate as far as technique goes
If scherffs gone clemmings has to b in the discussion at 9
Agreed. He's probably got the best pure LT upside. But there's risk and patience will be required.
He's also still a kid, carries a lot of baby fat to my eye, but he will be a huge man, 330-340 without the baby fat.
The questions regarding his toughness etc will be answered now too.
Agreed his physical being can and most likely be improved over time. Just a little concerning that he can't move for more than 10 seconds without drastically slowing down. Not something that kills his grade obviously but it's something to think about.
Not that I care about the Kipers and McShays if thats what you mean by expert...but I am pretty sure everyone has had Peat in their top 3 at worst since the beginning of the 2014 season.
I love seeing Dupree come in at 269. To me that means he can be coached to exhibit more power and won't be a liability in the run game (again with some coaching). Him and JPP could potentially be terrors together. If he can run in the low 4.6's he starts to get intriguing at 9.
Fowler is tough because i'm not sure he has enough bulk at 261 or room on his frame to add the neccessary power to be good in the run game. You can't take a pure pass rush guy at 9.
I'm a bigger Gurley person than Gordon (wouldn't take either at 9 though) but very concerning that he won't let his knee get inspected. If Gurley is there in the 2nd and we address the Oline in FA i'd take a hard look at him there still.
Round One: Fowler.
Round Two: Clemmings.
I'm not saying I would take Clemmings at #40. I probably wouldn't. I'd like to stay away from late position switchers until at least day three. But you can see the talent. There are plays where he is really excellent. The position just isn't instinctive for him yet. He also has the necessary size, is dedicated, and has no character problems. I could easily see Reese taking him at #40, especially if we land a starting G in FA.
Quote:
I've been saying for awhile Peat's conditioning is suspect. He gets tired, begins reaching and bending at the waist instead of moving his feet, and he falls over. I tend to think that's correctable on the whole.
He's also still a kid, carries a lot of baby fat to my eye, but he will be a huge man, 330-340 without the baby fat.
The questions regarding his toughness etc will be answered now too.
Agreed his physical being can and most likely be improved over time. Just a little concerning that he can't move for more than 10 seconds without drastically slowing down. Not something that kills his grade obviously but it's something to think about.
With McAdoo's faster paced offense, I wonder how much more of an emphasis they'd put on conditioning. With Gilbride's milk the 40 clock pace, he would've had plenty of time to recover between plays. (half kidding)
Round One: Fowler.
Round Two: Clemmings.
I'm not saying I would take Clemmings at #40. I probably wouldn't. I'd like to stay away from late position switchers until at least day three. But you can see the talent. There are plays where he is really excellent. The position just isn't instinctive for him yet. He also has the necessary size, is dedicated, and has no character problems. I could easily see Reese taking him at #40, especially if we land a starting G in FA.
I would be thrilled with Clemmings in round 2 if the GIants didn't go OL in round 1. Clemmings won't last to pick 40 though and some team will take him in the 20-32 range. He has the most upside of any OL but he is very raw and therefore a risk as Greg Robinson was a season ago.
If he were completely healthy, he'd be a Top 5 prospect in my eyes (although RBs in the Top 5 might be a dated concept).
clemmings at 40? c'mon now
Again I don't really keep track of where those guys rank anyone (you'd be surprised how they actually rank them)....but I can recall several guys labeling him a top 10 guy in the fall.
clemmings at 40? c'mon now
Those two aren't comparable as prospects.
Motherfucker. He was a favorite TE of mine. Thought he'd run in the 4.8s
Quote:
WR is looking better and better at 9.
That in fact may be the reality
Truth because I am not impressed with any of these OL as a #9 overall. I would much rather get a guy with better value in round 2.. None of them to me is a step in RT that are good enough to force Pugh to RT..
Scherff I dont feel is worth that value pick @ ( especially if he is will be playing guard..
Guys like Clemmings and FLowers to me need a little more time in the oven.. so I dont see the value @ 8..
Jake Fisher would be good value @ 2.. He made some money today.. Erving would be a good pick there as well.. He can definitely a guard/Center combo.. he also played Tackle...
Marpet made himself some money today as well..
I will be out all day tomorrow.. I am recording the whole day.. I want to see the WR's and RB's
I think we go playmaker on D-line or WR.
There is no way we take a WR the year after Beckham and at a higher pick.
I agree the way things are shaking out right now it's looking like DL, WR, OL in terms of value and likelihood of pick. We have to see how the DL and WR runs first though. Bad times with the WRs and OL jumps back ahead IMO
I've been on the Scherff bandwagon for awhile now, but I'm pretty surprised at the number of reps he did on the bench press. Strength was supposed to be his greatest asset. Of course, the number of bench press reps doesn't tell you haow he uses his size and leverage to move tacklers, but it raises eyebrows. I thought he looked good in the drills he did today before he got hurt. For a big guy, he moves very easily and naturally. Very fluid.
Link - ( New Window )
There is no way we take a WR the year after Beckham and at a higher pick.
NYG aren't the Matt Millen Lions.
Quote:
point to Dline.
There is no way we take a WR the year after Beckham and at a higher pick.
NYG aren't the Matt Millen Lions.
No they are not, but that doesn't mean they won't take a WR at #9. The problem with the Lions was they had no QB but kept taking WRs in the top of the draft. A WR without a QB to get him the ball is useless. Giants are the exact opposite. They have a successful franchise QB and therefore are never wrong adding more weapons to the offense. WR is a realistic possibility at #9. Especially if White goes first and Cooper is still there at #9.
Jon, we agree again. This is exactly how it's all shaping up. I think the Giants will end up sitting at #9 and seeing which player should be a top 5 pick but happens to still be there.
If you assume two QBs are going prior to the Giants pick, there is a good possibility one of the top two WRs or an edge rusher you like is there at #9. If I'm Reese my board of likely available at #9 is.
1. DE Shane Ray (if you think he can play 4-3 DE)
2. WR Amari Cooper
3. DE Bud Dupree (unless he bombs this weekend)
4. OT Ereck Flowers
5. OG Brandon Scherff
Still really early, but I'm still keeping an eye on Peat and will hear something on him at some point. If what Colin's been hearing is accurate, he might not be to their liking to begin with. Let's see how Dupree and Fowler test and if any other DEs look like NYG options. If they're truly planning for the worst at WR, White or Parker figure to get long looks. The QBs will help push one target down to us.
Just don't know about the OL at this point, but I'd still wager they look long at Scherff and Flowers, but playmaker normally trumps OL.
Marpet may be one of those players. Because he looked good at the combine, and at one of the post season bowl games, he's now a day two pick? He's a DIII player. Somebody on another thread said they would take Marpet over Ogbuehi, a DI player who has faced the best competition at the college level, and who many still think will develop into an excellent tackle in the NFL. Crazy.
I would take Fowler. Then White. But both will probably be gone.
Dont think he makes it to 9
In terms of how nyg have specific height/weight numbers they want their de's to be I dont see a fit at 9. I'm basically saying Dupree shouldn't be considered at 9. That's my opinion.
I'm thinking more and more that the Giants' 2015 draft could end up looking a lot like their 2014 draft, with a tweak here and there, like a FS or LB in the 3rd instead of a DT.
Either guy will probably be high on the Giants draft board.
Fowler, Leonard Williams, Mariota & Winston go before us. That leave us with 1 of Cooper, White, Shelton, Gregory, Ray. I also think Gregory and Ray go before us. If we can get either Cooper, White or Shelton I'd be ecstatic.
Peat - ( New Window )
He's big, he's nasty, he's got great feet, he's versatile which the Giants love, he got the best of BBI favorite Dante Fowler in their matchup, he can get to the 2nd level, he was a star at the Senior Bowl, he just killed it at the Combine today.
Peat and Flowers fit the prototype of "Blue Goose LT" prototype better than Collins does. So I get why BBI is focusing on those 2 guys more than him. But this guy is one of my favorite Guard prospects in recent memory and I hope we don't pass up on him because Guards aren't valuable. I think Martin in Dallas proved that wrong. And like Martin, I think Collins can play Tackle in the future if his team wants him to.
I hate to just stick with the announcers, but I thought DJ HUMPHRIES and Collins looked very good. Collins has the versatility too. I thought Collins looked really good today...fluidity and he popped the bags.
Peat looked like the Michelin baby, Flowers was slow out of his stance.
Schreff was loking good too but Def a Guard.
The separation between the top and the bottom was not that much. Giants should go BPA because of this and can still get a good OL in RD 2.
Quote:
In comment 12145665 Mr. Nickels said:
Quote:
point to Dline.
There is no way we take a WR the year after Beckham and at a higher pick.
NYG aren't the Matt Millen Lions.
No they are not, but that doesn't mean they won't take a WR at #9. The problem with the Lions was they had no QB but kept taking WRs in the top of the draft. A WR without a QB to get him the ball is useless. Giants are the exact opposite. They have a successful franchise QB and therefore are never wrong adding more weapons to the offense. WR is a realistic possibility at #9. Especially if White goes first and Cooper is still there at #9.
Good point. There are just so many holes on the team right now.
Let's see how they stand after FA. I hope they can take the long-term view of things.
Fowler played 3 positions at FL and played at almost 280 1 year
I would draft him, have him gain the weight again to 270-5 and leave him at DE. I think he will be a better pro than college player because of all the switching around
Glad this was mentioned, he has a strange build with very heavy, bloated and soft legs, he apoears to have the potential to really swell up. I'm not a fan especially at #9. I'm also surprised there's not more love for La'el Collins who looks the part and graded out very well today, he would be such a stud whether plufgging him in early on at G then moving him out to LT once Beatty's fate has been decided post 2015 season or RT with Pugh moving to the inside. Interested to see Kevin White who will be hard to overlook.
Todd McShay says Andrus Peat + Brandon Scherff are only two OL he would consider in the Top 10. Echoes Zack Martin comps with Scherff to G.
MT @GorGeY31 GMEN go OL 1st round or do they address later in draft and FA? >> Think draft set up for them to get top OL in first