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2015 NFL COMBINE DAY 1 THREAD ST, OL, TE

sjnyfan : 2/20/2015 6:45 am
First day of on-field timing, drills and workouts are not only finally here, but we'll start seeing separation for players that are under what many people consider our #1 need, an offensive lineman.

The frontrunners at tackle are of course Stanford's Andrus Peat, Iowa's Brandon Scherff and LSU's La'el Collins. After 37 reps on the bench yesterday, my favorite OT, Miami's Ereck Flowers could solidify a spot in the top 10 with a strong workout on field today. Keep an eye on the workouts of Jake Fisher and DJ Humphries. With good ones I think they could start seeing 1st rd buzz. A few other tackles who I think will improve their stock today are Donovan Smith and Rob Havenstein. Versatile sleepers are Sean Hickey, Andrew Donnal and Mitch Morse. Cedric Ogbuehi of course will not be working out.

The top interior lineman are AJ Cann and Laken Tomlinson. Cann could go in Rd 1. Cameron Erving, who started the season as one of the nation's top OT's goes into the combine as arguably the top C. Small school star Ali Marpet had a big week at the Senior Bowl and can continue his ascent with a strong combine. I think he'll run a sub-5 40. A couple of sleepers are Jon Feliciano, Andrew Gallik and Max Garcia. A huge omission here is McNeese State's Antoine Everett. He was invited but there will be more about him throughout the process.

At TE the top two are Maxx Williams and Clive Walford but the #3 spot is wide open. NJ's own Nick Boyle could grab that spot. Penn St.'s Jesse James could too. The draft advisory board suggested the underclassman go back to Happy Valley but he has freakish athleticism for someone 6'7". He could blow up the combine. The only TE that I know of who won't be working out is Rory 'Busta' Anderson.

Lastly, ST doesn't get much attention but a player who I hope gets mentioned is the lone long snapper, Navy's Joe Cardona. Not only for planning to serve our country but because he's a damn good long snapper. People will chide the position but ST coaches are well aware of him and when he's ready/able, he'll be in the league. He's been clocked at snapping the ball faster than anyone else (41 mph), does it for punts and FGs, and is perfect every time.

I won't be able to post all 40 times today like previous years so if someone wants to take the task, thanks. I will on Saturday and Sunday. There's also the Google Docs link. Coverage begins on NFL Network at 9.
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Williams  
MookGiants : 2/20/2015 1:29 pm : link
4.77 in his 2nd run, unofficial though
RE: RE: Marpet runs 4.98  
Coach Mason : 2/20/2015 1:31 pm : link
In comment 12145234 Emil said:
Quote:
In comment 12145220 Emil said:


Quote:


40 times are not overly important for an OL, but it does show that he moves very well for a man his size. Better than a lot of these TEs. I see a role for him at the next level for sure.

Does anyone know if the MacAdoo system calls for more athletic guards than others? I seem to recall that but am not sure.



Also had 30 reps on the bench. He must have destroyed DIII talent.


Not to say he won't be a good NFL player as the tape apparently looks good too (albeit against lesser comp).

But for some perspective, check out Mosely's combine numbers. There were one of the best overall too.

RE: Mayock  
jeff57 : 2/20/2015 1:33 pm : link
In comment 12145240 MookGiants said:
Quote:
didn't seem overly impressed with Walford's blocking.


Opinions will differ.

Quote:


A combo tight end who can help a team in the running game and through the air, Walford can be moved around the field. He lacks the elite athletic traits to be a game-changer at the position, but he is becoming a premium blocker.


Link - ( New Window )
Based on the Giants history,  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 2/20/2015 1:33 pm : link
the Giants will be looking for a high impact player at 9. That means either a WR, pass rushing DE, or someone in the defensive back seven that is a game changer.

For an offensive lineman or DT to be in that conversation, they have to be way above the available talent level in those areas. Are any of these offensive lineman or DT's that? Is there an OT that is a ten year lock down star? Or a DT that is an unbelievably disruptive force? I see a lot of good players but not players that jump off the page as can't miss prospects. The difference between the "best" 1 or 2 offensive linemen and the next 10 doesn't seem to be that great. IMHO
RE: Thompson was also great on covering punts and kickoffs  
Emil : 2/20/2015 1:37 pm : link
In comment 12145217 jeff57 said:
Quote:
The guy can do it all.


I don't know if this is how NFL teams think and I clearly don't have the expertise to comment but when I look at a player I try to think of all the ways he can help the team. Can he do more than one thing and do them well. The more things he can do at a high level, the more value I place on that player. Take all the names away and if you told a GM he could have a guy that could do the following at an NFL starter or pro-bowl level, would you take him in the top 10:
1. Starting SS in a 4-3
2. Starting WLB in a 4-3
3. very strong special teams player on punt and kickoff coverage
4. Ability to return kicks and punts
5. A threat to score with the ball in his hands.

My approach may be out of sync, but when I look at Shaq Thompson I see great potential for upgrades across the board on defense and special teams.

Would any of us be surprised if he runs 4.5?
RE: RE: Mayock  
Emil : 2/20/2015 1:38 pm : link
In comment 12145254 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 12145240 MookGiants said:


Quote:


didn't seem overly impressed with Walford's blocking.




Opinions will differ.



Quote:




A combo tight end who can help a team in the running game and through the air, Walford can be moved around the field. He lacks the elite athletic traits to be a game-changer at the position, but he is becoming a premium blocker.



Link - ( New Window )


I think it is more of a comparative comment. Walford can block...better than Donnel.
He can also be a RB if needed  
jeff57 : 2/20/2015 1:39 pm : link
.
RE: He can also be a RB if needed  
Emil : 2/20/2015 1:40 pm : link
In comment 12145273 jeff57 said:
Quote:
.


Right, should not have left that out. I tend to think more in terms of "weapons" vs "positions".
The top two positions I'm hoping fall in place at #9  
JonC : 2/20/2015 1:41 pm : link
are DE and/or OT. That's two positions where we need the talent infusion badly, especially picking this high. WR could fall into the mix due to value, CB appears weak this year, but I want a DE or OT.

RE: The top two positions I'm hoping fall in place at #9  
Emil : 2/20/2015 1:43 pm : link
In comment 12145276 JonC said:
Quote:
are DE and/or OT. That's two positions where we need the talent infusion badly, especially picking this high. WR could fall into the mix due to value, CB appears weak this year, but I want a DE or OT.


Jon, right now I am thinking Dupree or Flowers. Flowers impressed me these past two days. Dupree will have his chance.

If both are gone, I'm leaning toward Shelton or a trade down and take Shaq Thompson or Collins from LSU
Emil  
JonC : 2/20/2015 1:46 pm : link
I'd wager NYG loves Flowers, but I'd be a little surprised if they picked him unless they project him to LT. Need to see a lot more of Dupree and Fowler, if they get enough pub.

Collins is an OG imv, way too early for Shaq.
I doubt this regime goes DT at #9  
JonC : 2/20/2015 1:47 pm : link
Shelton looks like a Bears fit at #7.
re: Flowers  
JonC : 2/20/2015 1:50 pm : link
they could pick him and start him at RT, for sure, but at #9 I'd want a prospect suited to QB's blindside for a decade.
RE: Emil  
Emil : 2/20/2015 1:50 pm : link
In comment 12145285 JonC said:
Quote:
I'd wager NYG loves Flowers, but I'd be a little surprised if they picked him unless they project him to LT. Need to see a lot more of Dupree and Fowler, if they get enough pub.

Collins is an OG imv, way too early for Shaq.


I think Flowers is a LT or a RT.

I'm not convinced of Fowlers ability to play DE in the 4-3
I think Dupree can do it, but I want to see his athleticism on display

You're probably right about Collins, which is why I could only see him being a pick in a trade down

Shaq defies conventional wisdom, but I just keep getting sucked back in. Admittedly I may not be thinking straight. I know I couldn't see him a #9, but at 15+? I could see it, not sure Reese can.

My biggest issue with this draft is I do not "love" any of the DE talent that project as 1st round picks. I really hope one emerges, but I just keeping seeing inconsistent pass rushers who disappear for big stretches. Really want to be wowed.

Do you think Clemmings could last until the Giants pick in round 2?

RE: I doubt this regime goes DT at #9  
Emil : 2/20/2015 1:53 pm : link
In comment 12145289 JonC said:
Quote:
Shelton looks like a Bears fit at #7.


My calculation on Shelton is simply that he is one of the few can't miss defensive prospects. Would be hard to say no too...unless Flowers was there or Dupree impressed.
Fowler at 4-3 DE is still suspect to me  
JonC : 2/20/2015 1:56 pm : link
others here who know football believe he's the best option in the draft, but I don't see it so far. He looked undersized and didn't standout or do anything particularly well at UF. I don't see explosion off the edge, or lead in the arse to anchor the POA, set the edge, disengage blocks, etc.

Clemmings in the first two rounds scares me, exactly the type of risk pick I despise. Skurred of that one.
Official OL times  
jeff57 : 2/20/2015 2:00 pm : link
Marpet first, at 4.98. Then Fisher at 5.01. Scherff 4th at 5.05. Marpet also the fastest in the 10 yard split at 1.74. Daryl Williams surprisingly tying Fisher for second at 1.75
RE: Fowler at 4-3 DE is still suspect to me  
Emil : 2/20/2015 2:00 pm : link
In comment 12145308 JonC said:
Quote:
others here who know football believe he's the best option in the draft, but I don't see it so far. He looked undersized and didn't standout or do anything particularly well at UF. I don't see explosion off the edge, or lead in the arse to anchor the POA, set the edge, disengage blocks, etc.

Clemmings in the first two rounds scares me, exactly the type of risk pick I despise. Skurred of that one.


With you 100% on Fowler, don't like it at all

I think Clemmings' potential and athleticism will get him drafted no later than round 2. I do think a team could take a flyer on him in round 1. Share your concerns though

Still undecided if #9 is a good place to be this year, or if 15-20 is better.
Jesse James  
MookGiants : 2/20/2015 2:01 pm : link
looked terrible in that drill, weaving all over the place
RE: I don't think Peat solidified a Top 10 pick in Indy  
Emil : 2/20/2015 2:01 pm : link
In comment 12145156 Torrag said:
Quote:
just my opinion.


I agree, I think he reinforced his detractors. I still think he will be a solid player, but not top 10 worthy, sadly.
I would not be surprised if we take a WR  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 2/20/2015 2:02 pm : link
Only because I think the talent there is so much higher there than at the two other obvious areas - OT and DE. It just seems like a crappy draft to be at #9. Of course, if we needed a QB then it would be really a bad draft to be sitting at 9. I find it hard to fall in love with any of the OTs because they all seem to have their warts.
RE: Official OL times  
Emil : 2/20/2015 2:02 pm : link
In comment 12145319 jeff57 said:
Quote:
Marpet first, at 4.98. Then Fisher at 5.01. Scherff 4th at 5.05. Marpet also the fastest in the 10 yard split at 1.74. Daryl Williams surprisingly tying Fisher for second at 1.75


Marpet in round 2 o 3? Would prefer three but he may have slide into the latter half of round 2. I like this guy
I think JonC is right on with OT/DE being the 2 target positions  
Eric on Li : 2/20/2015 2:05 pm : link
If I had to guess 3 potential selections it'd be Dupree, Flowers (my current guess), and Peat.
Fowler  
stretch234 : 2/20/2015 2:05 pm : link
He already played DE at FL at 279lbs and played well. FL moved him all over and then had him lose weight to play LB. draft him and get his weight back to 270 and leave him at DE.
RE: Fowler  
Emil : 2/20/2015 2:08 pm : link
In comment 12145336 stretch234 said:
Quote:
He already played DE at FL at 279lbs and played well. FL moved him all over and then had him lose weight to play LB. draft him and get his weight back to 270 and leave him at DE.


I would argue he didn't play all that well. I think part of moving him around was to protect him from allowing opposing OLs to scheme against him. He just disappears far too much for my liking, and I don't see much in the way of run defense.
Well, O'Leary and Maxx Williams look like H-backs as  
yatqb : 2/20/2015 2:17 pm : link
opposed to inline TEs. But both have very good hands.
Fowler  
AcidTest : 2/20/2015 2:19 pm : link
would be my pick right now. Relentless with long arms. Lots of drive and passion for the game. He was also double teamed a lot this year. It's still early of course, and everybody has their favorite. But remember that Reese has a good record with first round picks. It's some of his later picks that leave a lot to be desired.
from reading these comments  
robbieballs2003 : 2/20/2015 2:23 pm : link
WR is looking better and better at 9.
RE: from reading these comments  
Emil : 2/20/2015 2:25 pm : link
In comment 12145366 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
WR is looking better and better at 9.


That in fact may be the reality
One thing that concerns me about Peat  
Sy'56 : 2/20/2015 2:27 pm : link
His conditioning appeared to be terrible. He has a lot of loose meat on him too. He is just a massive guy from head to toe...almost seems like he may be too big. Would be interested to speak with his S&C coaches.
Dupree might be best fit in terms of size for de  
jayg5 : 2/20/2015 2:30 pm : link
But I hope he's not in consideration at 9. That would be a huge reach imo. I agree we have a big need for pass rushers but lets not reach for him just because he has good size.
Sounds like Peat's value might be dropping a bit  
David in LA : 2/20/2015 2:30 pm : link
I'm on board the Flowers bandwagon or hoping we get one of the WR's.
RE: from reading these comments  
jeff57 : 2/20/2015 2:31 pm : link
In comment 12145366 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
WR is looking better and better at 9.


DeVante Parker.
RE: Sounds like Peat's value might be dropping a bit  
Mike in NY : 2/20/2015 2:34 pm : link
In comment 12145383 David in LA said:
Quote:
I'm on board the Flowers bandwagon or hoping we get one of the WR's.


Flowers I do not think can ever be a LT. Collins I think can. I really think Amari Cooper is being unfairly scrutinized. He may not have the height/weight/speed of other WR's but he is the type of player that has a lot of success in the NFL
RE: One thing that concerns me about Peat  
Emil : 2/20/2015 2:37 pm : link
In comment 12145373 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
His conditioning appeared to be terrible. He has a lot of loose meat on him too. He is just a massive guy from head to toe...almost seems like he may be too big. Would be interested to speak with his S&C coaches.


was shocked by that, especially considering all the criticism that he was soft to begin with. He seemed to miss his opportunity today.
RE: One thing that concerns me about Peat  
Eric on Li : 2/20/2015 2:38 pm : link
In comment 12145373 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
His conditioning appeared to be terrible. He has a lot of loose meat on him too. He is just a massive guy from head to toe...almost seems like he may be too big. Would be interested to speak with his S&C coaches.


Agreed - he looked real flabby. Sometimes that doesn't matter (like Andre Smith) but the little i've seen of him in games hasn't seem particularly impressive either. I've seen Flowers a lot more but beyond that he has an unquestioned toughness and work ethic that I think elevates him if all else is equal.
That's a legit criticism of Flowers  
David in LA : 2/20/2015 2:40 pm : link
he might not have the feet for the left side. I haven't been able to watch the workouts, has he looked slow footed?
RE: RE: Sounds like Peat's value might be dropping a bit  
Emil : 2/20/2015 2:41 pm : link
In comment 12145386 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 12145383 David in LA said:


Quote:


I'm on board the Flowers bandwagon or hoping we get one of the WR's.



Flowers I do not think can ever be a LT. Collins I think can. I really think Amari Cooper is being unfairly scrutinized. He may not have the height/weight/speed of other WR's but he is the type of player that has a lot of success in the NFL


Mike, good comments, but I am completely 180 out from you on Flowers vs Collins. I agree with Jon that Collins is most like an OG and maybe a RT, while Flowers is absolutely a RT and probably a LT. Jon may not agree on the LT part.

I also think that Cooper is being unfairly scrutinized. He is falling victim to last year's stellar WR class. Cooper is the most polished of the top 3. Mayock and others rate White as #1, and i can see why. He might have the biggest upside. But my concern with White is the lack of separation he gets despite his speed. Cooper is not regarded as a "blazer" but is still plenty fast and gets consistent separation with good hands. I think Cooper is the ready to play from day 1 and I think White needs to work on the important details.

I think Cooper is 1, and White and Parker are !B. All will have good careers.
RE: That's a legit criticism of Flowers  
Emil : 2/20/2015 2:42 pm : link
In comment 12145400 David in LA said:
Quote:
he might not have the feet for the left side. I haven't been able to watch the workouts, has he looked slow footed?


He actually looked to move very very well, especially for a man of his size.
RE: Sounds like Peat's value might be dropping a bit  
Emil : 2/20/2015 2:44 pm : link
In comment 12145383 David in LA said:
Quote:
I'm on board the Flowers bandwagon or hoping we get one of the WR's.


I might be there as well
Part of Pugh's problem at RT  
JonC : 2/20/2015 2:47 pm : link
is he's smallish, and Collins is roughly similar in hght/wght. Some posters will argue it's not a big difference, but it can be especially when you add in arm length, lateral movement, leg kick, etc.

I want my tackles closer to 6'6 330, and way back I recall the regime indicating they preferred 6'5/6'6 320+ ... which leads us to Peat, Scherff, and Flowers as the closest fit to total package size and skillset. Imv.
Clemmings is  
area junc : 2/20/2015 2:47 pm : link
undertated on this mssg board. If anyone is similar to tyron smith its clemmings. Crazy frame and legit T feet
He is a clean slate as far as technique goes

If scherffs gone clemmings has to b in the discussion at 9
RE: That's a legit criticism of Flowers  
Eric on Li : 2/20/2015 2:48 pm : link
In comment 12145400 David in LA said:
Quote:
he might not have the feet for the left side. I haven't been able to watch the workouts, has he looked slow footed?


That's definitely a fair concern - size wise he's a little bigger than many top LT's and his style is not that of a "glider". But there have been similar concerns for many other top 10 tackles in the past, including Jake Long and Tyron Smith. With Beatty & Pugh on the roster my preference would be to add more of a power player into the mix anyway, and think Flowers definitely has all the tools to be a top RT.
Does Peat have bologna tits?  
drkenneth : 2/20/2015 2:49 pm : link
?
Sy  
JonC : 2/20/2015 2:52 pm : link
I've been saying for awhile Peat's conditioning is suspect. He gets tired, begins reaching and bending at the waist instead of moving his feet, and he falls over. I tend to think that's correctable on the whole.

He's also still a kid, carries a lot of baby fat to my eye, but he will be a huge man, 330-340 without the baby fat.

The questions regarding his toughness etc will be answered now too.
RE: Part of Pugh's problem at RT  
David in LA : 2/20/2015 2:52 pm : link
In comment 12145410 JonC said:
Quote:
is he's smallish, and Collins is roughly similar in hght/wght. Some posters will argue it's not a big difference, but it can be especially when you add in arm length, lateral movement, leg kick, etc.

I want my tackles closer to 6'6 330, and way back I recall the regime indicating they preferred 6'5/6'6 320+ ... which leads us to Peat, Scherff, and Flowers as the closest fit to total package size and skillset. Imv.


That's why the Pugh selection was a bit of a surprise. I always thought the Giants tended to look for length/size/speed/power at T. Not that I'm complaining, Pugh has been decent, but he seems to be a guy that is outside of the mold we usually look for in prospects.
RE: RE: Part of Pugh's problem at RT  
JonC : 2/20/2015 2:54 pm : link
In comment 12145420 David in LA said:
Quote:
In comment 12145410 JonC said:


Quote:


is he's smallish, and Collins is roughly similar in hght/wght. Some posters will argue it's not a big difference, but it can be especially when you add in arm length, lateral movement, leg kick, etc.

I want my tackles closer to 6'6 330, and way back I recall the regime indicating they preferred 6'5/6'6 320+ ... which leads us to Peat, Scherff, and Flowers as the closest fit to total package size and skillset. Imv.



That's why the Pugh selection was a bit of a surprise. I always thought the Giants tended to look for length/size/speed/power at T. Not that I'm complaining, Pugh has been decent, but he seems to be a guy that is outside of the mold we usually look for in prospects.


I think they fell in love with Pugh, and targeted him. Given the OL holes, they grabbed him. One of their scouts agreed with me on that.
Before combine I never once heard  
jayg5 : 2/20/2015 2:54 pm : link
One so called draft expert very high on Peat. If course he has the size to be considered a left tackle but everything you read about him basically states he's not very good in pass pro, he doesn't bend well, he doesn't play to a man his size. Today seems like everything that scouts have said about him on film is true.
re: Pugh  
giants#1 : 2/20/2015 3:00 pm : link
I may be an eternal optimist, but I'm hoping his early season struggles last year were due to whatever injuries he was battling. He was definitely better his rookie season (or the rest of the shit next to him just made him look good) and he looked to improve down the stretch (hoping that wasn't just the competition.

RE: Clemmings is  
chris r : 2/20/2015 3:02 pm : link
In comment 12145411 area junc said:
Quote:
undertated on this mssg board. If anyone is similar to tyron smith its clemmings. Crazy frame and legit T feet
He is a clean slate as far as technique goes

If scherffs gone clemmings has to b in the discussion at 9


Agreed. He's probably got the best pure LT upside. But there's risk and patience will be required.
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