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2015 NFL COMBINE DAY 3 THREAD DL, LB

sjnyfan : 2/22/2015 8:55 am
Just like Day 1 of the combine, there are alot of players looking to gain separation on their draft status. It will also be followed very closely as it can very well be in play with the 9th pick.

Unfortunately, Shane Ray won't be participating due to injury. However his teammate, Markus Golden can help himself with a strong showing. Another pair of SEC teammates will be looking for a strong day as well. Kentucky's Alvin 'Bud' Dupree (who actually will be performing with the LBs) I think will light it up today, although I'm not sold on him as the 9th pick. His teammate Za'Darius Smith had a very good Shrine Week and can capitalize with a good day. Speaking of strong All Star weeks, Carl Davis from Iowa was one of the best players at the Senior Bowl regardless of position. However some choice words at interviews raise questions about work ethic. Depending on his interviews this week as well as his workout today can go a long way to solidifying a first rd grade. There are several names in play including Danny Shelton with his massive size, Dante Fowler who arguably has the top motor and Randy Fregory, who has a high ceiling but a low floor. But overall this is a talented bunch performing today. New names will emerge. There are many candidates but two that I'll be looking for are LSU's Danielle Hunter and Clemson's Grady Jarret. I think they're both a bit under the radar who could have very good days today.

At LB, my top two are Eric Kendricks and Clemson's Stephone Anthony. I think they will have good days. This year's Chris Borland will be Denzel Perryman. He's short,squatty, bulky and I don't think he'll time well but so what? He's a football player. I'm not a fan of Benardrick McKinney at ILB, especially at 9 but he's a bit of a freakish athlete too. Depending on how he performs though I'd wonder if some teams start considering him at OLB which I think he'd be a better player at the pro level. Paul Dawson of TCU will time well but REALLY needed to nail his interviews if he wants a chance to be a high pick. Red Flags. Shaq Thompson will only be performing as a LB so he'll need to nail it. Two underrated players that I'd like to see in blue that are underrated are Ben Heeney and Martrell Spaight.
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Ngata who was taller and stronger  
sjnyfan : 2/22/2015 11:38 am : link
ran a 5.13 at virtually the same weight. Shelton's numbers and (lack of) athleticism don't compare at all.
RE: robbie  
robbieballs2003 : 2/22/2015 11:38 am : link
In comment 12147794 chris r said:
Quote:
that's why I think this is the draft for a trade down. Maybe someone covets one of the 3-4 edge rushers or WRs and they fall to us.


If White or Cooper are available it would take a ton for me to trade out of it. Would you trade Beckham to move down about five spots and get an additional third? I wouldn't.

There is such a drop off imo that it just makes sense to take them. It will be interesting to see how these pass rushers come off the board. The top of the draft is gonna be dominated by the two QBs and pass rushers. This is also assuming there is no trading at the top of the draft.
Lyndon Trail  
sjnyfan : 2/22/2015 11:39 am : link
1.77 10 yd

4.96
I wouldn't move down  
gidiefor : Mod : 2/22/2015 11:39 am : link
there's a lot of really good players in the top 10 - I want one of them
The production vs potential question  
Emil : 2/22/2015 11:40 am : link
I think we are looking at a good number of DE prospects that have the ability to be impact players at the next level, but haven't actually proved that in college. Much is made of Fowler's 14.5 sacks in his career. I'll admit, I have not been warm to the idea of taking Fowler, but I'm open to other points of view on this and would like to be wrong quite honestly.

Some things to keep in mind.

Fowler was a part time player (played LB) as a true freshman and managed 30 tackles (8 for a loss) and 2.5 sacks.

As a sophomore he became a starter at LB and had 50 tackles (10.5 for a loss) and 3.5 sacks.

As a senior he started at DL (played many other positions) had 60 tackles, 15 for a loss and 8.5 sacks.

Keep in mind the college season is significantly shorter than NFL, Fowler appeared to be more effective on the DL vs at LB, and the Florida program has been a dumpster fire for a number of years now.

Also, just for the sake of comparison. The great JJ Watt started for two years at Wisconsin before coming out as a junior. Managed a total of 106 tackles and 11.5 sacks. His career high of 7 came his final year.

What does this prove...nothing. All it says is production isn't everything and combine performance isn't everything. I suppose what scouts are looking for is the right combination of production, ability, and potential. If Fowler brings versatility, explosiveness, and a nasty streak (which they say he does) then he is a candidate a #9.

On another note, curious to see if Shane Ray drops.
Robbie  
Jay on the Island : 2/22/2015 11:40 am : link
I agree if White or Cooper are there the Giants have to grab them. If they are both gone at 9 I would definitely look to trade down and grab an OL or DE.
RE: sack forced fumble of Patrick Towles  
chris r : 2/22/2015 11:41 am : link
In comment 12147799 gidiefor said:
Quote:
Ate up Anthony Jennings against LSU
Swallowed Jameis Winston
3 Sacks of hane Carden in one game

He was like a freight train


The sacks vs Jennings and Winston were both on blitzes where he was standing up in the MLB position.
I like Fowler a lot...  
Dunedin81 : 2/22/2015 11:41 am : link
and he's a better pro prospect at this time than Osi was during the pre-draft process. My point was just that people are too quick to compare 21 and 22 year old kids and their size/speed combination to Osi in his 2nd and particularly his breakout 3rd year in the league, and even then he was heavier than he subsequently played.
Shelton is a 1  
Torrag : 2/22/2015 11:42 am : link
his strongest attribute...eating up blockers, is wasted in a 4-3
RE: The production vs potential question  
gidiefor : Mod : 2/22/2015 11:42 am : link
In comment 12147806 Emil said:
Quote:
I think we are looking at a good number of DE prospects that have the ability to be impact players at the next level, but haven't actually proved that in college. Much is made of Fowler's 14.5 sacks in his career. I'll admit, I have not been warm to the idea of taking Fowler, but I'm open to other points of view on this and would like to be wrong quite honestly.

Some things to keep in mind.

Fowler was a part time player (played LB) as a true freshman and managed 30 tackles (8 for a loss) and 2.5 sacks.

As a sophomore he became a starter at LB and had 50 tackles (10.5 for a loss) and 3.5 sacks.

As a senior he started at DL (played many other positions) had 60 tackles, 15 for a loss and 8.5 sacks.

Keep in mind the college season is significantly shorter than NFL, Fowler appeared to be more effective on the DL vs at LB, and the Florida program has been a dumpster fire for a number of years now.

Also, just for the sake of comparison. The great JJ Watt started for two years at Wisconsin before coming out as a junior. Managed a total of 106 tackles and 11.5 sacks. His career high of 7 came his final year.

What does this prove...nothing. All it says is production isn't everything and combine performance isn't everything. I suppose what scouts are looking for is the right combination of production, ability, and potential. If Fowler brings versatility, explosiveness, and a nasty streak (which they say he does) then he is a candidate a #9.

On another note, curious to see if Shane Ray drops.


^^^ This!!!!
Leonard Williams  
sjnyfan : 2/22/2015 11:43 am : link
1.74 10 yd split

5.01
The lack of love for Parker is surprising to me.  
Chris L. : 2/22/2015 11:44 am : link
The number 9 pick HAS to be BPA not need. We can't make the Pugh mistake again. That was a total need pick and it has not worked out. Don't get me wrong, we need help on both lines and at No. 40 I can see an O-lineman or D-lineman. The No. 9 pick needs to be a pro bowler. Right now the WR's are the best value. Make strength a super strength. Nobody thought the cowboys needed an O-lineman last year. How did that work out? No one though we needed a linebacker in 1984 but Carl Banks at No. 3 worked out okay. Parker or White one on one with a team's No. 2 corner with no safety help (have to double ODB) would be a joke. Right now White or Parker seem a much more sure thing than any of the other options.
the pugh mistake lol  
Torrag : 2/22/2015 11:45 am : link
good rookie season...so so sophomore and he's a mistake to be avoided. Get a grip.
RE: RE: sack forced fumble of Patrick Towles  
gidiefor : Mod : 2/22/2015 11:46 am : link
In comment 12147809 chris r said:
Quote:
In comment 12147799 gidiefor said:


Quote:


Ate up Anthony Jennings against LSU
Swallowed Jameis Winston
3 Sacks of hane Carden in one game

He was like a freight train



The sacks vs Jennings and Winston were both on blitzes where he was standing up in the MLB position.


my bad - obviously he is unworthy of any team you are directing - so I'll take him and you can suck your thumb and trade down -- just root for another team that's all I ask for : )
UF didn't know what to do with Fowler  
Big Rick in FL : 2/22/2015 11:46 am : link
That's why his production isn't insane. He will be a better NFL player then college player. A lot of the draft analysts think that also.
did Parker bail on the agility testing cuz he tweaked something?  
Torrag : 2/22/2015 11:48 am : link
info? He didn't perform a 3-cone or shuttle run.
The UCLA DE  
robbieballs2003 : 2/22/2015 11:50 am : link
Is such an intriguing prospect. The hip surgeries definitely scare you but watching him run like a gazelle puts some of that to rest. I wonder what the medical reports on him say.
Torrag...  
Chris L. : 2/22/2015 11:50 am : link
Do you ever see Pugh going to a pro bowl? I don't. The guy drafted right after him also an o-lineman already went to one.
Chris  
Jay on the Island : 2/22/2015 11:52 am : link
so you believe if a 1st round pick doesn't go to a pro bowl he is a bust?
RE: The UCLA DE  
Dunedin81 : 2/22/2015 11:53 am : link
In comment 12147824 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
Is such an intriguing prospect. The hip surgeries definitely scare you but watching him run like a gazelle puts some of that to rest. I wonder what the medical reports on him say.


I really hope we pass on him because it took me seven years to learn to spell Umeniyiora.
Orchard's 2nd  
sjnyfan : 2/22/2015 11:54 am : link
4.87
Vic Beasley  
sjnyfan : 2/22/2015 11:55 am : link
41" Vertical

10'10" Broad
Pro Bowl means squat...NFL's version of a popularity contest  
Torrag : 2/22/2015 11:55 am : link
I want Pugh to be an effective player for us and do his job. I'm confident he can. One thing for sure you don't believe in patience or developing players.
RE: RE: The UCLA DE  
robbieballs2003 : 2/22/2015 11:56 am : link
In comment 12147829 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
In comment 12147824 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


Is such an intriguing prospect. The hip surgeries definitely scare you but watching him run like a gazelle puts some of that to rest. I wonder what the medical reports on him say.



I really hope we pass on him because it took me seven years to learn to spell Umeniyiora.


That is why I wrote the UCLA DE. I will stay with that until he gets a nickname.
RE: Vic Beasley  
Dunedin81 : 2/22/2015 11:56 am : link
In comment 12147833 sjnyfan said:
Quote:
41" Vertical

10'10" Broad


Crazy. I'm sure he'll rock the 3-cone and SS too.
RE: Pro Bowl means squat...NFL's version of a popularity contest  
Jay on the Island : 2/22/2015 11:57 am : link
In comment 12147834 Torrag said:
Quote:
I want Pugh to be an effective player for us and do his job. I'm confident he can. One thing for sure you don't believe in patience or developing players.


Also Pugh plays RT which rarely get selected for the pro bowl. Fans always vote for the big name LT's even if they don't have a pro bowl caliber season. I don't give a damn if Pugh makes a pro bowl I just want him to play like he did during the 2nd half of his rookie year.
Danny Shelton 2nd  
sjnyfan : 2/22/2015 11:59 am : link
1.91 10

another 5.66
Beasley is going nuts  
Torrag : 2/22/2015 12:01 pm : link
very impressive workout...could Spags time in Baltimore open the door for the Giants to hybridize their defense and draft a guy like this?
RE: Chris  
chris r : 2/22/2015 12:01 pm : link
In comment 12147827 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
so you believe if a 1st round pick doesn't go to a pro bowl he is a bust?


Did I say that?

I'd like to see a top 10 pick go to a pro bowl, yes. I think we should all hope for that. A top 10 pick is supposed to be a 95% percentile talent by definition. If you are better than 95% of your peers you should be a pro bowler.

RE: RE: Chris  
chris r : 2/22/2015 12:02 pm : link
In comment 12147842 chris r said:
Quote:
In comment 12147827 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


so you believe if a 1st round pick doesn't go to a pro bowl he is a bust?



Did I say that?

I'd like to see a top 10 pick go to a pro bowl, yes. I think we should all hope for that. A top 10 pick is supposed to be a 95% percentile talent by definition. If you are better than 95% of your peers you should be a pro bowler.


My bad, just saw that was to Chris L re: Pugh.
Vic Beasley  
Big Rick in FL : 2/22/2015 12:03 pm : link
Might have put himself in the top 10 today. Told me prior to the Clemson bowl game that he really wants to play for the Falcons. Said it was his favorite team growing up. Has seen they've had a lack of pass rush for a few years. Really thinks he could help.

He was cool as hell so I'm hoping he goes where he wants. Also would drop another player to the Giants.
Jay  
Chris L. : 2/22/2015 12:04 pm : link
my point was Pugh was a reach at that pick. If you recall he wasn't even projected to go in the first round. When San Diego took Fluker with the 12th pick the top four OL were all gone. The problem was our O-line was a total mess at the time and we picked for need. You don't do that in the first round. The report on Pugh was he was undersized and with short arms. Not athletic enough to be a left tackle, to small to be an effective right tackle and not big enough to be an effective in side player. So far (and I hope it changes but I don't expect it to) the report has been dead on. He looks like a second round talent who definately can help but you need difference makers when you pick No. 18.
RE: The lack of love for Parker is surprising to me.  
SGMen : 2/22/2015 12:05 pm : link
In comment 12147815 Chris L. said:
Quote:
The number 9 pick HAS to be BPA not need. We can't make the Pugh mistake again. That was a total need pick and it has not worked out. Don't get me wrong, we need help on both lines and at No. 40 I can see an O-lineman or D-lineman. The No. 9 pick needs to be a pro bowler. Right now the WR's are the best value. Make strength a super strength. Nobody thought the cowboys needed an O-lineman last year. How did that work out? No one though we needed a linebacker in 1984 but Carl Banks at No. 3 worked out okay. Parker or White one on one with a team's No. 2 corner with no safety help (have to double ODB) would be a joke. Right now White or Parker seem a much more sure thing than any of the other options.
Pugh was rock solid the last five games of the season. He clearly was adjusting to new scheme and an injury. Pugh will be a solid RT this year and could play LT in a pinch though he would need TE help against better DE's for sure. He is NOT a bust pick or bad pick. So many first round picks do squat. He's started like 30 of 32 games or something.
RE: Jay  
Jay on the Island : 2/22/2015 12:09 pm : link
In comment 12147850 Chris L. said:
Quote:
my point was Pugh was a reach at that pick. If you recall he wasn't even projected to go in the first round. When San Diego took Fluker with the 12th pick the top four OL were all gone. The problem was our O-line was a total mess at the time and we picked for need. You don't do that in the first round. The report on Pugh was he was undersized and with short arms. Not athletic enough to be a left tackle, to small to be an effective right tackle and not big enough to be an effective in side player. So far (and I hope it changes but I don't expect it to) the report has been dead on. He looks like a second round talent who definately can help but you need difference makers when you pick No. 18.


I don't ever remember reading a single report questioning Pugh's athleticism. That was never a question for Pugh in regards to him being able to play LT. His reach and size were the concerns for Pugh at LT.
Pugh was the 19th pick  
Torrag : 2/22/2015 12:11 pm : link
fyi
Not that this is likely  
Bake54 : 2/22/2015 12:15 pm : link
but if Shelton, Cooper and White are all available, who do you pick?
RE: Not that this is likely  
Jay on the Island : 2/22/2015 12:17 pm : link
In comment 12147863 Bake54 said:
Quote:
but if Shelton, Cooper and White are all available, who do you pick?


That's tough but in order I would go with Cooper, Shelton, then White.
Cooper  
Big Rick in FL : 2/22/2015 12:17 pm : link
Without a doubt. Best WR in the draft IMO.
Cooper  
sjnyfan : 2/22/2015 12:17 pm : link
I'd have to see who else is on the board with White. I don't want Shelton at all
Preston Smith looking really athletic.  
yatqb : 2/22/2015 12:27 pm : link
I saw his strength on tape, but the athleticism makes him really attractive.
How has Malcolm Brown  
Rflairr : 2/22/2015 12:28 pm : link
been today? I'm a big fan of his
Nice numbers for Odi  
jeff57 : 2/22/2015 12:28 pm : link
.
Small issue for NYG here  
Sy'56 : 2/22/2015 12:32 pm : link
is ther eare very few true 4-3 DEs in this class. Do they tweak what they usually look for and take one of these undersized guys? Or do they reach for a Preston Smith type?
RE: How has Malcolm Brown  
yatqb : 2/22/2015 12:32 pm : link
In comment 12147881 Rflairr said:
Quote:
been today? I'm a big fan of his


He did fine. 1.75/5.05 and athletic looking. He's a favorite of mine too in a trade down. Fits our scheme a lot better than Shelton.
Here's the Walter Football link to times, lifts, etc.  
yatqb : 2/22/2015 12:34 pm : link
.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Torrag...  
Giants2012 : 2/22/2015 12:35 pm : link
In comment 12147825 Chris L. said:
Quote:
Do you ever see Pugh going to a pro bowl? I don't. The guy drafted right after him also an o-lineman already went to one.


It is interesting how Long has made it to the Pro-Bowl while all the hyped linemen in the top 10 haven't made much of an impact.

RE: Small issue for NYG here  
yatqb : 2/22/2015 12:37 pm : link
In comment 12147887 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
is ther eare very few true 4-3 DEs in this class. Do they tweak what they usually look for and take one of these undersized guys? Or do they reach for a Preston Smith type?


The thing with a guy like Smith is he could play LDE and hold up against the run effectively, then move in at DT on passing downs. I like that versatility. Round 2 target? Maybe too high at 40, though. He's unlikely to fall to 74, I think.
RE: RE: Torrag...  
K-Gun? Pop-Gun : 2/22/2015 12:38 pm : link
In comment 12147892 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
In comment 12147825 Chris L. said:


Quote:


Do you ever see Pugh going to a pro bowl? I don't. The guy drafted right after him also an o-lineman already went to one.



It is interesting how Long has made it to the Pro-Bowl while all the hyped linemen in the top 10 haven't made much of an impact.


Name recognition. In politics and Pro Bowls, it works.
RE: RE: How has Malcolm Brown  
Rflairr : 2/22/2015 12:39 pm : link
In comment 12147888 yatqb said:
Quote:
In comment 12147881 Rflairr said:


Quote:


been today? I'm a big fan of his



He did fine. 1.75/5.05 and athletic looking. He's a favorite of mine too in a trade down. Fits our scheme a lot better than Shelton.


Thats how I feel as well. I think he would be great beside Hankins.
Correct yat  
Sy'56 : 2/22/2015 12:40 pm : link
I have Smith at a grade of 75 right now. Which is in the ballpark of a late 2nd/early 3rd rounder. My issue is...because there is a lack of supply of true 4-3 DEs, someone is going to grab him earlier than NYG 3rd rounder. Hope that doesn't mean they reach for him in round 2.
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