and Porcello was a top 30 WAR pitcher in all of baseball. Those players improve their team. Miley had a 1.7 WAR which is around replacement level. My biggest question with the Red Sox is they don't have an ace this year (or even a #1 starter), they have a bunch of #3 starters and a couple guys with #2 starter potential. But they can still trade for a Hamels or someone.
So what is your prediction for the Red Sox this year?
7th worst in baseball last year, and according to Greg in LI the only significant addition they made is an A ball player a few years away from the majors.
And their 2015 prediction from Greg in LI is: ________
1. I don't think this is "official" yet
2. Didn't the Yankees sign a bunch of the top int'l free agents recently?
3. Some of you guys are ridiculous: "My team didn't get the guy I wanted so I'm gonna hold my breath and pout!"
"According to MLB.com, the Yankees signed the top two, three of the top five, four of the top seven, five of the top nine, and eight of the top 20 available prospects. According to Baseball America, they signed one of the top five, three of the top eight, four of the top nine, and six of the top 20 prospects." Breaking down the Yankees’ record international free agent haul - ( New Window )
RE: RE: The worst thing about this is that it inspires another round of Â
George Steinbrenner amnesia, when those too young or too stupid to remember what he actually was as an owner pretend that nothing bad ever happened when he owned the team.
Agree completely. The "Yankee fan since 1996" crowd has no idea what an embarrassment he was. Just watch Seinfeld. Larry David was a riot ranting and raving like him.
Right - but to make the same mistakes that George made - signing players past their prime, making terrible deals, and overpaying underwhelming talent - is the real issue. The organization should have learned that this is not the way to win.
Overpay by tens of millions + years on contracts instead of investing in a young, talented kid with huge upside (not to mention losing out by what amounts to $6M if they were willing to go to $27M)? Madness.
annoyed he went to the Sox then anything else. I can't blame the Yankees for not spending 60 million on an unproven player. Just stings because it's not like our farm system is oozing top tier talent either.
A lot depends on some of those vaunted prospects taking the next step and performing at a big league level, on Hanley staying healthy, on whether Porcello can maintain his performance from last season (he really wasn't good before last year). Like I said, they're in a good position for the future but for the immediate future they have a lot of question marks.
1. I don't think this is "official" yet
2. Didn't the Yankees sign a bunch of the top int'l free agents recently?
3. Some of you guys are ridiculous: "My team didn't get the guy I wanted so I'm gonna hold my breath and pout!"
"According to MLB.com, the Yankees signed the top two, three of the top five, four of the top seven, five of the top nine, and eight of the top 20 available prospects. According to Baseball America, they signed one of the top five, three of the top eight, four of the top nine, and six of the top 20 prospects." Breaking down the Yankees’ record international free agent haul - ( New Window )
And that's great, but we're talking about a bunch of 16-17 year olds there. It'll be a long time before those signings start to bear fruit. Moncada is much closer than that.
The money doesnt surprise me. I've said on a lot of Moncada threads that when you crunch the #s it makes no sense to pay this kid a $40-50 million bonus in a world where FAs make about $7 million/WAR. Double it for taxes, accelerate it all to day one, but the kid doesnt see MLB for 1-3 years, and then recognize that this is just bonus and if he's good he'll get big arb awards in years 4,5, and 6 (and possibly 3 if Super 2).
You'd have to project him as a BA #1 overall prospect to justify that kind of bonus, and from what I can tell he is solidly behind Buxton (#1) and Correa (#1 middle INF). Callis gave him a 65 grade, which would slot him in the #4-13 range on MLB.com's list.
If you can add talent to your team that you otherwise don't have an opportunity to add (no 19 year old FA's are available and you win too much to get top 10 draft picks) the value is irrelevant and you add the player.
particularly when you're the Yankees and you have money coming out Â
but read in conjunction with the last few years the ship just looks rudderless. The Sox win the ultimate fluke World Series and the Yankees went apeshit, giving out that absurd contract to Ellsbury and otherwise just being incredibly reactive. This year they blitz the IFA market, which is great, but overall spending was less than half of what Moncada will get. Otherwise, they spend very little (outside of Andrew Miller). To react to the Sox win but then to get outbid on one of the best young amateurs to hit the FA market in the last decade just looks like there is no direction.
1) Greg - Thank you for reminding people about the real Steinbrenner. There are too many people, and not just young fans, who act like Steinbrenner's reign was isolated to 1994-2000. Prior to being banned, he had a few good moves early that helped them win the WS and then a ton of terrible moves in the 80s.
2) I may be in the minority on this, but I don't think this is the end of the world. Given their current payroll/tax situation, this is not a no-brainer...especially for a 20 year old.
3) To me, the real value in international FAs is signing a number of cheap deals with the young kids and hoping you hit it with one or two.
they've lacked a clear direction for a while now Â
Everything is patches and temporary fixes. They'd better pray Judge and Refsnyder and Severino all hit their most optimistic projections, and that Gary Sanchez finally gets his head out of his ass and starts making something of his prodigious natural talent.
I agree about the lack of direction. what I still can't figure out is if that is on Cashman, or if he is still just a lackey for a group of executives making the decisions. I have never had a full sense that he had full control of baseball operations. but, I never had a full sense he didn't either.
I think it would be best for everyone if Cashman moved on Â
He's had the job for 17 years. Most jobs in sports have a shelf life, and Yankees GM has unique problems that make it even tougher. The problem is, do you trust Hal and Levine to hire a capable replacement?
$30 million much less $60 million is ridiculous for a prospect in baseball. You wouldn't think of paying that kind of money for a #1 pick franchise QB in football and yet baseball prospects are far less certain. At best it will be a year and probably several before this kid can play in the majors. Even then he has to adjust to the pressure cooker that is the Boston Red Sox.
Lets face it, this day had to come for the Yankees. They're bogged down with bad contracts and they're paying about $180 million for a team that stinks. They don't need to add any more dead weight.
a 20 year old with star potential is 'dead weight'? Â
I was born in 76. Became a serious fan right around the time George was a laughing stock owner and then lived through what will forever be remembered as one of the great dynasty teams in all of sports. If you are going to kill him for what he was you have to praise him for what he became. What he became was also how he left the game so one could say he learned from his mistakes and turned into a ruthless win at all costs owner we all wish we had right now. So with that fuck Hal and this current group and give me back the Stick, Stein tandem.
The dynasty only happened because GS was out of commission Â
Even that isn't an accurate recollection. George returned and let Stick make the big decisions for a few years. After the Yankees started winning again, George interjected his opinions and moves more and more and is a big reason that dynasty started unraveling as they kept getting older.
That said, I'd still rather have a blustery Boss than Hal and the rest of the ownership "team".
RE: RE: RE: Blame Hank-enstein. He is the asshole who gave A-roid Â
a new 10 year deal when he had no other suitors. They are stuck until they get rid of that contract. And CC, Texiera as well. And McCann and Ellsbury. And Beltran.
In other words they suck. They are old, decrepit and over priced.
Coming off a 54 home run 156 rbi season. Yeah, he had no suitors, I am sure.
There is no salary cap in baseball. If they wanted the guy, they could have signed him, no matter what contracts they had out there. After all, Jeter came off the books this season. Apparently, the baseball side did not think Moncada was worth it after conducting several workouts with him.
That's right Homer. He opted out (during the WS and pissed off all of baseball). He was not going to get a 10 yr deal from anybody.
So you say. Unless you are telling me that you are privy to what other teams (like the Red Sox, who seem to have plenty of dough) were going to do, you are speculating.
And btw, A-Rod's payments under that contract have been dropping since 2010, so the Yankees are paying $10 million less that 2010 on that contract. Jeter is off the books. If the Yankees didn't sign Moncada, it wasn't from lack of funds.
They could actually do worse, since motherfucking Dolan supposedly has long been interested in buying the Yankees. Corporate ownership would suck, too.
Who exactly is their future? The farm system still sucks. They have no idea how to develop players, and they let top prospects go for a couple of bucks, meanwhile they give out 150 (plus luxury tax) million to schmucks like Jacoby Ellsbury,
They have no idea what they are doing. This team has nothing to look forward to.
And make no mistakes. There was not Stick-Stein tandem, as you called it. Stick was calling the shots while George was gone and built the franchise back from the ground up, while adding some key veterans. That foundation was laid by Michael and Showalter, to a lesser degree. George had nothing to do with it, but did start his tinkering when the winning began. Replacing Stick with Watson was one example, because he thought he was getting a yes-man in Watson. Same goes for replacing Watson with Cashman. In his early years, Cashman was GM, but mostly in title only.
RE: I don't think we can say what the system is right now Â
They do have some talented guys. Yes, I know their player development has been weak for a while, but Newman's gone now. Maybe Denbo changes that.
I think based on how piss poor the farm system has been for a while we can say what it is. We've heard about talented guys for years and seen next to no results.
Dolan own the Yankees than Hal Steinbrenner. He wouldn't go cheap ever. And he couldn't possibly make worse decisions than Hal has made.
Fuck that. All I want from lil Jimmy Dolan is for him to finally just OD on cocaine. What's the sense in trading a bad owner for the very worst owner in professional sports? Dan Snyder wouldn't go cheap, you want him?
RE: Abreu, Moncada, Tomas, Castillo, Puig, Cespedes, Soler Â
This is the one market they should be cleaning up in and they have passed on every single one.
Don't worry though, they'll sign guys like jacoby ellsbury to 25 million dollar contracts per year.
He's a terrible, terrible owner. It's been clear for a couple years. He has no plan, what so ever. They spend like fucking idiots when they shouldn't, and go cheap when they should spend.
Dolan own the Yankees than Hal Steinbrenner. He wouldn't go cheap ever. And he couldn't possibly make worse decisions than Hal has made.
Fuck that. All I want from lil Jimmy Dolan is for him to finally just OD on cocaine. What's the sense in trading a bad owner for the very worst owner in professional sports? Dan Snyder wouldn't go cheap, you want him?
Put them in a sport with no salary cap and you'd see far different results. They wouldn't give a shit about luxury tax. Would Dolan be a great mlb owner? No, but he'd be better than jerkoff Hal Steinbrenner
How can anyone possibly think this is a good thing? Â
They have money to burn - they could have done this with only financial penalty, to help shore up a farm system that isn't exactly well regarded.
At best, this isn't a horrible move. And that's the best case scenario.
George Steinbrenner is definitely remembered in a very positive light compared to reality, but the guy did want to win, he just wasn't always straight on the best way to do that. I don't think Hal gives a flying fuck, he just looks at the bottom line and goes from there.
That's the thing. I still don't know how much of these moves (and non-moves) are Hall and Co. or Cashman. Either way, it means it's time for Cashman to go. If these are part of his plans, then he deserves to be fired. If he is still being handcuffed by management, then let him go or better yet, he should leave.
didn't even want any part of the team but things changed after Steve Swindal got DUI and divorced. Now he's running the team straight into the ground. People better be prepared for a 3-4 year period of sucking balls because that's what's coming. I'd be fine with that if they had people who know what they were doing to rebuild, he does not, Cashman does not.
This rebuild is going to take much longer than it ever should have.
That's the thing. I still don't know how much of these moves (and non-moves) are Hall and Co. or Cashman. Either way, it means it's time for Cashman to go. If these are part of his plans, then he deserves to be fired. If he is still being handcuffed by management, then let him go or better yet, he should leave.
Cashman is a fucking pupper for the Steinbrenners. He doesn't make these decisions, the dumb owners do.
He needs to go, too. But nothing is going to change as long as idiot Hal is in charge
That's the key difference. George wanted, above all else, to win. Whether you liked him or his decisions or his tactics, or not, you still respected that about him. Hal wants to run the franchise on the bottom line first. I wouldn't go so far as to say they have a small market mentality yet. But, they certainly aren't operating as a franchise that is minting money before the season even starts.
Even that isn't an accurate recollection. George returned and let Stick make the big decisions for a few years. After the Yankees started winning again, George interjected his opinions and moves more and more and is a big reason that dynasty started unraveling as they kept getting older.
That said, I'd still rather have a blustery Boss than Hal and the rest of the ownership "team".
Revisionist history.
Cashman has been the GM since 1998 and was given more control over personnel matters since 2005, when he threatened to go to the Nationals. That is also when he first started yakking about his plans to preserve prospects. We are now in year 10 of his "plan."
So what is your prediction for the Red Sox this year?
7th worst in baseball last year, and according to Greg in LI the only significant addition they made is an A ball player a few years away from the majors.
And their 2015 prediction from Greg in LI is: ________
2. Didn't the Yankees sign a bunch of the top int'l free agents recently?
3. Some of you guys are ridiculous: "My team didn't get the guy I wanted so I'm gonna hold my breath and pout!"
"According to MLB.com, the Yankees signed the top two, three of the top five, four of the top seven, five of the top nine, and eight of the top 20 available prospects. According to Baseball America, they signed one of the top five, three of the top eight, four of the top nine, and six of the top 20 prospects."
Breaking down the Yankees’ record international free agent haul - ( New Window )
Quote:
George Steinbrenner amnesia, when those too young or too stupid to remember what he actually was as an owner pretend that nothing bad ever happened when he owned the team.
Agree completely. The "Yankee fan since 1996" crowd has no idea what an embarrassment he was. Just watch Seinfeld. Larry David was a riot ranting and raving like him.
Right - but to make the same mistakes that George made - signing players past their prime, making terrible deals, and overpaying underwhelming talent - is the real issue. The organization should have learned that this is not the way to win.
Overpay by tens of millions + years on contracts instead of investing in a young, talented kid with huge upside (not to mention losing out by what amounts to $6M if they were willing to go to $27M)? Madness.
Can't wait for Michael Kay to pontificate about the Stadium selling out this year while half the fuckin seats are empty.
2. Didn't the Yankees sign a bunch of the top int'l free agents recently?
3. Some of you guys are ridiculous: "My team didn't get the guy I wanted so I'm gonna hold my breath and pout!"
"According to MLB.com, the Yankees signed the top two, three of the top five, four of the top seven, five of the top nine, and eight of the top 20 available prospects. According to Baseball America, they signed one of the top five, three of the top eight, four of the top nine, and six of the top 20 prospects." Breaking down the Yankees’ record international free agent haul - ( New Window )
And that's great, but we're talking about a bunch of 16-17 year olds there. It'll be a long time before those signings start to bear fruit. Moncada is much closer than that.
You'd have to project him as a BA #1 overall prospect to justify that kind of bonus, and from what I can tell he is solidly behind Buxton (#1) and Correa (#1 middle INF). Callis gave him a 65 grade, which would slot him in the #4-13 range on MLB.com's list.
If you can add talent to your team that you otherwise don't have an opportunity to add (no 19 year old FA's are available and you win too much to get top 10 draft picks) the value is irrelevant and you add the player.
2) I may be in the minority on this, but I don't think this is the end of the world. Given their current payroll/tax situation, this is not a no-brainer...especially for a 20 year old.
3) To me, the real value in international FAs is signing a number of cheap deals with the young kids and hoping you hit it with one or two.
Lets face it, this day had to come for the Yankees. They're bogged down with bad contracts and they're paying about $180 million for a team that stinks. They don't need to add any more dead weight.
That said, I'd still rather have a blustery Boss than Hal and the rest of the ownership "team".
Quote:
In comment 12148784 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
a new 10 year deal when he had no other suitors. They are stuck until they get rid of that contract. And CC, Texiera as well. And McCann and Ellsbury. And Beltran.
In other words they suck. They are old, decrepit and over priced.
Coming off a 54 home run 156 rbi season. Yeah, he had no suitors, I am sure.
There is no salary cap in baseball. If they wanted the guy, they could have signed him, no matter what contracts they had out there. After all, Jeter came off the books this season. Apparently, the baseball side did not think Moncada was worth it after conducting several workouts with him.
That's right Homer. He opted out (during the WS and pissed off all of baseball). He was not going to get a 10 yr deal from anybody.
And btw, A-Rod's payments under that contract have been dropping since 2010, so the Yankees are paying $10 million less that 2010 on that contract. Jeter is off the books. If the Yankees didn't sign Moncada, it wasn't from lack of funds.
Who exactly is their future? The farm system still sucks. They have no idea how to develop players, and they let top prospects go for a couple of bucks, meanwhile they give out 150 (plus luxury tax) million to schmucks like Jacoby Ellsbury,
They have no idea what they are doing. This team has nothing to look forward to.
Stupid fucking Steinbrenners.
I think based on how piss poor the farm system has been for a while we can say what it is. We've heard about talented guys for years and seen next to no results.
Fuck that. All I want from lil Jimmy Dolan is for him to finally just OD on cocaine. What's the sense in trading a bad owner for the very worst owner in professional sports? Dan Snyder wouldn't go cheap, you want him?
Stupid fucking Steinbrenners.
This is the one market they should be cleaning up in and they have passed on every single one.
Don't worry though, they'll sign guys like jacoby ellsbury to 25 million dollar contracts per year.
He's a terrible, terrible owner. It's been clear for a couple years. He has no plan, what so ever. They spend like fucking idiots when they shouldn't, and go cheap when they should spend.
Quote:
Dolan own the Yankees than Hal Steinbrenner. He wouldn't go cheap ever. And he couldn't possibly make worse decisions than Hal has made.
Fuck that. All I want from lil Jimmy Dolan is for him to finally just OD on cocaine. What's the sense in trading a bad owner for the very worst owner in professional sports? Dan Snyder wouldn't go cheap, you want him?
Put them in a sport with no salary cap and you'd see far different results. They wouldn't give a shit about luxury tax. Would Dolan be a great mlb owner? No, but he'd be better than jerkoff Hal Steinbrenner
At best, this isn't a horrible move. And that's the best case scenario.
George Steinbrenner is definitely remembered in a very positive light compared to reality, but the guy did want to win, he just wasn't always straight on the best way to do that. I don't think Hal gives a flying fuck, he just looks at the bottom line and goes from there.
This rebuild is going to take much longer than it ever should have.
Cashman is a fucking pupper for the Steinbrenners. He doesn't make these decisions, the dumb owners do.
He needs to go, too. But nothing is going to change as long as idiot Hal is in charge
That said, I'd still rather have a blustery Boss than Hal and the rest of the ownership "team".
Cashman has been the GM since 1998 and was given more control over personnel matters since 2005, when he threatened to go to the Nationals. That is also when he first started yakking about his plans to preserve prospects. We are now in year 10 of his "plan."