I've watched plenty of both of them. Watched both of their combines and Amari Cooper looks like the much better player to me.
Got into a discussion with a few people on Twitter last night that think White is way better then Cooper. Somebody please try and sell me on that? Only reason I keep seeing is that he is faster. Yes in a 40 he is, but on the field he isn't. Let's hear some opinions please and thanks!
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He's definitely a more imposing athlete. Ball skills is more arguable, but White does seem to be better in that area. Those are two huge aspects of WR play where he has an edge.
But Cooper is MUCH smoother in his movements than White. I'd say Cooper's biggest strength is his smooth change of direction skills, whereas one of my biggest concerns with White is how mechanical he looks when he moves. I think this will allow Cooper to become the better route runner in the pros.
I've gone back and forth with the top 3 WRs. But as of today I've come back to having Cooper as my most preferred WR for us at #9 because he feels like the safest prospect and also the best fit in McAdoo's system.
I think people are over thinking things when they look to drop him.
The only knock on him may be that he's not great in contested/jump ball situations. I don't think Holt, Bruce, Harrison, Wayne, or even Rice were known for that. You don't need to make contested catches when you can get wide open with great routes and quickness.
They are BOTH good receivers.. Many people already had White as their number one receiver because he has a higher ceiling.. although Cooper has a much lower floor. All things being equal in general you prefer the bigger taller receiver with a larger catch radius. White has that over Cooper. He is a goes up and gets it guy.. He high points the ball very well. What surprised everyone was his straight line speed. It was thought he would have to run under a 4.5 and He had one of the fastest times of the day at his size.. Which was NOT expected.. He has college production.. He runs after the catch with power.. doeskin go down easy,, He plays inside and outside as a WR as well and his route running improved..
He came from the Juco level and is still ascending as a WR..
Amari Cooper on the other hand is not a big.. or as fast.. However his burst and short area quickness is excellent as evidenced by his short shuttle and 3 cone drill results where he is near the top of the athletes at the combine. This is what was expected of Cooper.. He comes from a pro style offense which should help him adjust quickly to the NFL. He is already a superb route runner which everyone knows can definitely help you get open in the NFL even if you have OK speed. Cooper has better than OK long speed and excellent short area quickness.. and superp hands
If I were to compare the two in terms of the TYPE of receiver
I'd Say Kevin White is like a AJ Green and Cooper like Reggie Wayne in his prime..
So the truth is.. BOTH are top notch receivers.. but because White's ceiling is higher and he is a bigger more physical guy many people will have him as number one.. That doesnt mean Cooper inst good.. They both have the potential to be All Pro receivers at the NFL level.
That simulcam 40 helps show White's edge over Cooper in this area.
The one thing I will say is I dont put too much stock into White's 40 time. Love watching him on film, always felt he was fast enough and has good game speed but imo I never saw 4.35 speed when I watched him.
They are BOTH good receivers..
If I were to compare the two in terms of the TYPE of receiver
I'd Say Kevin White is like a AJ Green and Cooper like Reggie Wayne in his prime..
.
And Dorial Green-Beckham is Calvin Johnson with Josh Gordon type baggage.
Much better after the catch and much more physical attacking the football.
DeVante Parker is more AJ Green than White is.
Cooper is noticeably thicker in his chest and thighs than Lee (6-foot, 192 pounds), which may make him more likely to remain durable. He'll need to be to earn the first-round pick that Julio Jones and Roddy White received. With the only quarterback Cooper has ever known at Alabama now playing for the Cincinnati Bengals, Cooper could discover (as Lee did last year) maintaining stardom is more difficult without an experienced passer.
--Dane Brugler & Rob Rang (12/4/14)
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Cooper has three full years of tape at Alabama, which already gets alot of exposure due to the success. It's to the point now where people see so much that they start looking for things wrong with him. It's been happening to top prospects for years. White on the other hand burst on to the scene this year with his production at WVU.
I'm not saying White won't be a good player but I think Cooper has the clear edge.
He's younger, he has bigger, more consistent hands, has played in and understands a pro style offense, he's a MUCH better route runner and while White tested faster by 0.07 seconds, Cooper undeniably plays faster in game, especially when defended and as previously mentioned he's much quicker in and out of breaks. Stats aren't always the best indicator but you have to consider what Cooper did with subpar receivers around him and a QB whose only way into the NFL is as a FB. White at least had Mario Alford who had 11 TD's this past year (one more than White), will probably be a mid round pick himself as an undersized but quick slot receiver and actually has bigger hands despite giving up 6 inches in stature. Meanwhile Cooper was 44% of the Alabama offense despite being the only passing threat.
Both will and deserve to be 1st rounders but I really think Cooper is in a category on his own. Don't overlook the obvious in this case.
White could be gone as well.
White could be gone as well.
The same way Prince was right?
People give the edge to White in ball skills but why? Cooper had less drops then White. That is also with him getting more catchable targets his way. So less drops on more targets is worse ball skills?
I don't see the Reggie Wayne comparison to Cooper either. I'd compare him to Odell as a prospect. Obviously not the Odell we saw in the pros.
Cooper comes in as a rookie and plays. Cruz may never come back to 100% so he could be your #3 wideout day one!
I wish this draft had a true BlueChip QB & Defender who were clearly #1 and #2 just so it would be easier to figure out the rest!
If White is as good, or better than Cooper, then BOTH will be gone before the ninth pick. Although White is big and fast, he is not overpoweringly big and fast. He is not a Megatron clone.
As for Prince, that was a very rare piece of luck. And I emphasize the word rare.
People give the edge to White in ball skills but why? Cooper had less drops then White. That is also with him getting more catchable targets his way. So less drops on more targets is worse ball skills?
I don't see the Reggie Wayne comparison to Cooper either. I'd compare him to Odell as a prospect. Obviously not the Odell we saw in the pros.
Cooper doesnt compare to Odell as a prospect. Odell didnt have the same production.. Odell was considered by most to be the fourth or fifth receiver in the draft. Cooper is slightly taller.. bigger by about 10-12 lbs and was far more productive in college.
I make the Reggie Wayne comparison because they are similar size coming out of college ( Cooper is a little bigger ) both were very very good running routes and both very quick in an put of their breaks which of course assists them in getting open at the pro level. Both had the quick burst in a short area and change of direction ability.
To me the comparing player X to player Y in terms of who they are like professionally and is very subjective. And doesnt matter in the end..
Give me Cooper every time.
Both Odell & Amari had scouting reports that say they are good route runners, big soft hands and they are good in and out of breaks. Can score from anywhere. Have trouble blocking & catching the ball in traffic.
Once again not talking pro Odell. He was much better as a Pro then anybody thought he'd be. Very similar players in college though.
I said that because people are acting like now that White measured in 2 inches taller than Cooper and ran a 4.35 compared to a 4.42 that he is now better than Cooper. He isn't better at all and speed is only so important. OBJ measured in at 5'11 and ran a 4.43 or something. Would you now put White over OBJ because he is taller and ran faster? No of course you wouldn't. People over react when they see results at the combine. A faster, taller player does not make them a better player.
But for the record.. I would take Cooper over White.. because I also look at what Cooper does to get open.. he sets up defenders well with the positioning and head fakes etc etc.. thats stuff that doesnt show up in the combine..
Im all over the map this draft.. I would love another receiver.. Id love a RB.. I am kind of partial to Coleman from Indiana... We need defense.. we need another DT and LB help...
Cooper fits the Mcadoo system better. (better at short, intermediate routes and also can go deep)
for us, cooper is a better pick. also, consider the fact that he will be the 3rd option his rookie year, he will be able to do a lot more.
- bigger
- faster
- quicker off the snap
- better against press coverage
- better at making 50/50 catches downfield
These are all edges for White right now. I agree that I like Cooper better, but White definitely has a stronger argument than what you're making out. Cooper doesn't explode at the snap like Beckham does. He's very quick but not as explosive as Beckham.
White isn't a raw prospect, but compared to Cooper, his skill set and knowledge of how to play his position is immature. Physically, he's a spectacularly gifted WR, and if those skills and knowledge can grow and mature, he could be a very special wide receiver in the NFL, Dez Bryant level ability. But even if he were to continue to play the game exactly as he is, I think he has enough pure physical talent to contribute substantially right off the top. However, if he can maximize that physical ability through improving his skill set and knowledge, he could be insane.
White does not have "great" hands... He has had drop issues. Parker as well. Don't get me wrong I am a big fan of all 3, but give me the better hands, better route runner, quicker guy over the slightly taller and/or slightly faster guy.
- bigger
- faster
- quicker off the snap
- better against press coverage
- better at making 50/50 catches downfield
These are all edges for White right now. I agree that I like Cooper better, but White definitely has a stronger argument than what you're making out. Cooper doesn't explode at the snap like Beckham does. He's very quick but not as explosive as Beckham.
Where are you getting that he's quicker off the snap?
And I'm not sure he's faster either. See the video I posted as well as game tape. And I don't think he's better vs the press either. He's bigger and better at making contested catches.
I guess catching radius is different from hands. Cooper might have the best hands from the trio. But he also definitely has the smallest catching radius. I think that's Parker's best asset and where the AJ Green comps come from.
But one thing I definitely see with White is that he gets 0-60 faster than Cooper or Parker. I was surprised at his deep speed in the 40. But that ability to get to full speed quickly is White's biggest edge over Parker and Cooper imo.
First Alabama had the 58th best pass defense last year. Could Cooper have had the same impact as White? of course he could and probably would have. That same game he went 12-130 compared to White's 9-143-1 ... that is with Alabama only throwing 33 times completely only 24 passes (half of the completions were to Cooper) for 250 yards (over half the yards were to Cooper). WVU on the other hand threw it 45 times completing 29 (less than a 3rd to White) for 365 yards (less than half to White)... That was with Cooper being the focal stopping point also.
I guess catching radius is different from hands. Cooper might have the best hands from the trio. But he also definitely has the smallest catching radius. I think that's Parker's best asset and where the AJ Green comps come from.
What were his drops from the year before? Again I like White, but his hands aren't as good as Coopers. You don't see drop issue ever associated with Cooper, but you do see it with White. It is a concern. Remember Cooper played against LSU, Auburn, Miss State, Ole Miss, etc in a pro style slow down offense and put up Monster numbers as the sole concern in the passing game. White put up great numbers in a fast tempo passing offense that had multiple WR sets to defend and Mario Alfred to also worry about.
OBJ.
If the Giants go WR at 9, they will need their heads examined, but if they do and both guys are sitting there (highly unlikely) I take that stud from West Va.
Why?
Much better complement to OBJ (and Cruz if he ever makes it back).
But WR at #9 is an idiot choice for the worst POA team in the NFL.
And that's where the game is won. Not at WR, but at the POA.
OBJ.
If the Giants go WR at 9, they will need their heads examined, but if they do and both guys are sitting there (highly unlikely) I take that stud from West Va.
Why?
Much better complement to OBJ (and Cruz if he ever makes it back).
But WR at #9 is an idiot choice for the worst POA team in the NFL.
And that's where the game is won. Not at WR, but at the POA.
Disagree completely. First off we still have the Free Agency period which will begin next month. The Giants could fill holes on the OL and DL in FA possibly.. I expect them to definitely address the OL...
If the value on the receiver is MUCH higher than that on the OL or DL.. you take the best player available..
Even if Cooper is 75% the player that Beckham is then you run to the podium at 9.
Damn my bad, got Parker and Cooper mixed up. Cooper definitely looks like he has the best deep speed in that vid.
He had hands issue also. I hope we look later if we don't go WR round 1. Aghalor or Greene in the 3rd would be nice to me. I also really like Antwan Goodley from Baylor. If didn't have some injury stuff he would have been a second rounder IMO. He would be a nice pick up in the 4th-6th round range
You'd have to be a fool to pass on that talent if it fell in your lap. They would not be doing their jobs as talent evaluators if they did that.
You'd have to be a fool to pass on that talent if it fell in your lap. They would not be doing their jobs as talent evaluators if they did that.
If Cooper and Williams are the only 2 non QB blue chip guys on our draft board and Cooper was there, how do you pass that up?
But it could just be that he also has a POA player in the same row as one of these two, in which case "need" comes in to play big time.
But just remember this: OBJ is an outright star, already one of the game's best as just a rookie.
But for all his brilliance and all his gaudy stats, the Giants sucked as a team.
Absolutely sucked.
blueblood... if we don't go POA early and often this draft, I sure hope you're right that we pick up some decent FAs. And I mean on both sides of the ball. We suck at the POA on both sides of the ball.
If the G-men believe they need another Flanker who is better than Ruben Randle or Corey Washington than White is the more logical choice. I think that Corey showed last pre-season that he would make a very good flanker, and I like him more than Ruben. Because of the question about Cruz returning to his former level of play I think the Giants would prefer to take Cooper. That selection would match a need with a quality player with first round talent. Of course, this is assuming that he will still be there at 9.
I would not take White if cooper is gone unless the Giants think the difference between him and Corey justifies it.