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NFT: Knicks chat: Rondo- yes? or no?

DanMetroMan : 2/26/2015 10:17 am
"The root of the Rondo-Carlisle crisis is a simmering disagreement about whether the Mavs were best off with the genius former Coach of the Year or brilliant four-time All-Star point guard calling the majority of the plays.

Rondo, a nine-year veteran with one of the highest basketball IQs in the league, believes that's a big part of his job as a point guard. Carlisle, one of the NBA's best offensive minds, doesn't want to hand the keys of his sports car over to a guy he just met.

It's similar to the friction between Carlisle and future Hall of Fame point guard Jason Kidd during their first season together, except they never had "SportsCenter"-leading shouting matches. Carlisle ceded control to Kidd in midseason, and that duo played prominent roles in the Mavs' title run a few years later.

Could history repeat itself? Don't hold your breath. The reality is Rondo's run with the Mavs is extremely unlikely to extend past this season. "

I wanted Rondo BADLY in the draft and I'm still a fan but I'm very concerned with his fit in the triangle and even more important.. he's ALWAYS hurt. Find it hard to believe that improves in his age 30-34 seasons. Rajon Rondo has played 68, 53, 38, 30 and 47 games (so far) the past 5 seasons
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The scariest FA of the offseason.  
bceagle05 : 2/26/2015 10:19 am : link
Overrated, will be overpaid, aging, a pain the ass to deal with, and of course Carmelo loves him. I think the triangle is the only thing that prevents it from happening, and for that I am grateful.
he's the most anti-Triangle PG in the league  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 2/26/2015 10:20 am : link
and he's not good enough for you to toss out the "Triangle Plan" just because he's available.

The rumor right after the trade was made was that Cuban forced the Rondo move against Carlisle's wishes. Dallas' offense was #1 in the league at the time of the trade, they've been borderline Top 10 with Rondo.
Doesn't seem to fit Jax's idea of 'system basketball'  
BeerFridge : 2/26/2015 10:22 am : link
if he thinks he's the system.

Still, I love Rondo. Absent the Triangle and Jax's system, I'd be in. He'd have been a good fit for Mike Woodson's lack of giving a shit about offense.
Huge no  
Phil in LA : 2/26/2015 10:22 am : link
on Rondo.
Wish  
DanMetroMan : 2/26/2015 10:22 am : link
we had something to offer Denver for Lawson since apparently he wants out. He'd be an awesome get.
Tough Call  
TyreeHelmet : 2/26/2015 10:29 am : link
But I would pass. I really want the Knicks to get some shooting on this team and Rondo obviously can't shoot. I second you on Ty Lawson. Love that guy.
I wanted Lawson  
bceagle05 : 2/26/2015 10:31 am : link
during the draft after we missed out on Curry. No worries though, Donnie was all over Jordan Hill.
not at his price...  
Italianju : 2/26/2015 10:33 am : link
id take him for like 10 mill, but he will get way more then that.

depends on the price  
Enzo : 2/26/2015 10:34 am : link
I think he's going to be looking for the max or close to it. Putting the triangle aside, is he worth that much money to ANY team?
Not a  
Metnut : 2/26/2015 10:34 am : link
Knicks fan but I don't think Rondo is a good fit for the team. I think the Knicks are going to have to sign 2-3 quality guys to non-max contracts to build out their roster this offseason. If they can get a stud in the draft, Melo returns to form next year, and they are able to sign 2 legitimate starters and another legitimate top 7 rotation player, they'd have nice core to build on.
sidenote  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 2/26/2015 10:35 am : link
this year's Western Conference is the GOAT conference in NBA history and probably the best conference/league ever in any sport I give a shit about.

It's really too bad Tri-State basketball is dead this year an so many of you gave up on the NBA this year. Because the West is historic.
I still think he is a very good player...  
Italianju : 2/26/2015 10:36 am : link
but he hasnt seemed the same after the injury. I dont see him worth anywhere near max money, especially when you add in the fact that he seems like a pain in the ass to deal with.

I bet he doesnt get the max, but he will get a lot closer to it then i would be willing to offer.
RE: sidenote  
dep026 : 2/26/2015 10:44 am : link
In comment 12153704 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
this year's Western Conference is the GOAT conference in NBA history and probably the best conference/league ever in any sport I give a shit about.

It's really too bad Tri-State basketball is dead this year an so many of you gave up on the NBA this year. Because the West is historic.


Higher seeded teams should start tanking. No one wants part of the best team in basketball..... the OKC Thunder. Westbrook, realistically, should be the MVP of the league. They will have Durant back. Ibaka has raised his game. Kanter is a legimate center they never had. Waiters provides scoring. Roberson the defense. And Augustin/Singler are very solid role players.

OKC/Cleveland final.
Nooooooooooo!!!!!!!!  
#10* : 2/26/2015 10:57 am : link
.
Westbrook, realistically  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 2/26/2015 10:58 am : link
should be behind Harden and Curry in the MVP race.

He's definitely Player of the Month for February though, hands down.
Even though the Knicks are out  
nygiants16 : 2/26/2015 10:58 am : link
wont keep me from watching these playoffs...West is going to be fun to watch...imagine being a top seed and having to play Westbrook and Durant in the first round?
Rondo would "play" well on NYK  
old man : 2/26/2015 11:00 am : link
NOT>
RE: Westbrook, realistically  
dep026 : 2/26/2015 11:49 am : link
In comment 12153742 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
should be behind Harden and Curry in the MVP race.

He's definitely Player of the Month for February though, hands down.


The only reason that's the case was because he missed time early on, but he has been the best player in the NBA this year.
the whole premise seems completely counter  
mfsd : 2/26/2015 11:59 am : link
to what Jax is trying to build - Rondo is a smart player who wants to run things his own way, while Jax wants players who will buy into playing his system

Pass
Westbrook vs. Harden vs. Curry  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 2/26/2015 12:03 pm : link
is by no means an easy answer. Westbrook is a beast. But he's also by far the least efficient scorer of the bunch. He's still a bit of a chucker. I could easily rank him #3 from this trio. His highs are higher than Curry/Harden's, but his lows are also a lot lower.
I  
DanMetroMan : 2/26/2015 12:03 pm : link
realize it's a longshot but nailing the high pick also gives you potential ammo if a monster stud superstar indicates he wants out of his current location/plans on leaving via FA.
2nd pick for Cousins, do it! wooo  
DanMetroMan : 2/26/2015 12:04 pm : link
Even DeMarcus Cousins, their franchise center, is not untouchable, according to a source with insight into Karl's thinking. "At the trade deadline, everyone was available," the person said. Including Cousins? "Every single person (on the Kings roster) was available." Although Karl does not hold a front office title, "he definitely has control" of future personnel decisions, the source said. Bleacher Report - See more at: http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm#sthash.KVWFfgzm.dpuf
Knicks should be all over that  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 2/26/2015 12:06 pm : link
if Cousins is available and they land the #1 pick.

Watching Cousins and ZBo get in each other's faces last night was so exciting. Both of those guys are for real and were on the verge of going at it.
Cousins is one guy I'd definitely consider  
bceagle05 : 2/26/2015 12:09 pm : link
dealing that top pick for. He's an animal.
Cousins  
DanMetroMan : 2/26/2015 12:10 pm : link
is a stud
Cousins  
DanMetroMan : 2/26/2015 12:11 pm : link
is 24 years old, a true star and a good fit for the Triangle
Cousins would def be on the short...  
Italianju : 2/26/2015 12:13 pm : link
list of guys id consider trading a top 3 pick for.
Cousins isn't a leader. Neither is Melo  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 2/26/2015 12:15 pm : link
And they both require a ton of FGA. That could prove to be a weird dynamic offensively. Melo would be the one who needs to sacrifice and defer.
A big NO  
TommyWiseau : 2/26/2015 12:15 pm : link
to Rondo. No thank you.. and Yes I would trade the pick for Cousins, guy is a 23ppg, 12 rebound 1.5 blocks per night player. Sure he's just a tad crazy but maybe this team needs a little crazy. He is only 24 years old
Hypothetically  
DanMetroMan : 2/26/2015 12:15 pm : link
If the Knicks traded say #1 overall and Hardaway for Cousins, and then somehow dumped Calderon, cap wise what else could they afford?
I heard somehwere that Cousins and Melo  
nygiants16 : 2/26/2015 12:16 pm : link
are close friends...I think it was during all star weekend...


Cousins would be a great fit in the triangle also
RE: Cousins isn't a leader. Neither is Melo  
DanMetroMan : 2/26/2015 12:16 pm : link
In comment 12153912 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
And they both require a ton of FGA. That could prove to be a weird dynamic offensively. Melo would be the one who needs to sacrifice and defer.


If you are building your team based on who is a "leader" it's going to be quite a long wait. Is Westbrook a leader? is Harden? How many "leaders" are there? Cousins is a stud player, young and would instantly give Melo a legit star to work with.
Cousin's  
TommyWiseau : 2/26/2015 12:18 pm : link
Salary for next year is 15 million, following year is about 16 mil and the next year 17 million. He doesn't even cost the "max", would be a no brainer move.
How  
DanMetroMan : 2/26/2015 12:18 pm : link
many players in the NBA are known leaders anyway? Is Anthony Davis? Is Klay Thompson? Most say Green is the "leader" on that Warriors team. Is Jimmy Butler? Is Vucevic? I'll take all of them.
I'm just saying that Cousins is just a unique individual  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 2/26/2015 12:19 pm : link
and he needs to be babied. Melo isn't exactly my choice for a role model when it comes to Cousins. And since both of them take a crapload of shots, it's just a potentially interesting dynamic.

FWIW, Harden has become a fantastic leader.
If you traded...  
Italianju : 2/26/2015 12:21 pm : link
Calderon and THJR and the pick and go cousins all you would have guaranteed would be.

Melo - 22.9
Cousins - 14.7
Early - .9

That would be all you had under contract. There would be some Team options but if you declinded them all and took cap holds you would be at like 43 mill. So if the cap is around 69 you would have like 26 mill or so left to spend.
RE: Hypothetically  
nygiants16 : 2/26/2015 12:22 pm : link
In comment 12153915 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
If the Knicks traded say #1 overall and Hardaway for Cousins, and then somehow dumped Calderon, cap wise what else could they afford?


Melo 22.8
Cousins 14.7
Early 845,000

= 38 million

9 cap holds= 4.5 million

42.5 million

They would still have around 21 million to spend


RE: I'm just saying that Cousins is just a unique individual  
DanMetroMan : 2/26/2015 12:22 pm : link
In comment 12153928 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
and he needs to be babied. Melo isn't exactly my choice for a role model when it comes to Cousins. And since both of them take a crapload of shots, it's just a potentially interesting dynamic.

FWIW, Harden has become a fantastic leader.


I wasn't calling out Harden by the way. Just saying the list of guys we "know" are leaders is quite short. Cousins DOES need to be babied but he was also very close with Mike Malone so it's not as if he can never be controlled.
RE: RE: Hypothetically  
DanMetroMan : 2/26/2015 12:23 pm : link
In comment 12153935 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 12153915 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


If the Knicks traded say #1 overall and Hardaway for Cousins, and then somehow dumped Calderon, cap wise what else could they afford?



Melo 22.8
Cousins 14.7
Early 845,000

= 38 million

9 cap holds= 4.5 million

42.5 million

They would still have around 21 million to spend



Damn, that's pretty bonerific stuff right there lol That's "Phil is a genius" type potential off-season, from worse to first caliber stuff.
Quote from Melo on Cousins  
nygiants16 : 2/26/2015 12:24 pm : link
“I love him, I love him,” Anthony said of Cousins. “I’m trying to get him to calm down a little bit but I love him, his game, what he can do out there on the basketball court. He stuffs the stat sheet, points, rebounds. He can pass the ball, got a good feel for the game. He just does a lot out there but I’m just trying to get him to calm down out there a little bit. I’m working on that, that’s my project.”


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RE: Hypothetically  
TommyWiseau : 2/26/2015 12:24 pm : link
In comment 12153915 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
If the Knicks traded say #1 overall and Hardaway for Cousins, and then somehow dumped Calderon, cap wise what else could they afford?


The expected cap for this upcoming season is supposed to be around 63/64 million dollars. We are on the hook for 32 million with Calderon. If we were to swing a trade for Cousins that would be 32 million plus 15 = 47 Million against the cap with around 16 mil left to fill out the roster. If Hardaway was added in the trade that clears up another 1.5 or so million. If we were to unload Calderon, best case we could be looking at 24-25 million in cap space but with a roster of just Melo, Cousins, Acy, Early, Galloway I think.
oops....  
Italianju : 2/26/2015 12:24 pm : link
projected cap is 66 so they would have like 23 mill not 26. Enough to go out and add a couple more players though.
RE: RE: RE: Hypothetically  
nygiants16 : 2/26/2015 12:25 pm : link
In comment 12153940 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 12153935 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 12153915 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


If the Knicks traded say #1 overall and Hardaway for Cousins, and then somehow dumped Calderon, cap wise what else could they afford?



Melo 22.8
Cousins 14.7
Early 845,000

= 38 million

9 cap holds= 4.5 million

42.5 million

They would still have around 21 million to spend





Damn, that's pretty bonerific stuff right there lol That's "Phil is a genius" type potential off-season, from worse to first caliber stuff.


Thats based off of 63 million salary cap...like Italian said if it is 68 or 69 million Knicks could ahve 26 million with Cousins and Melo as your centerpieces to go out and recruit...

You would need a PG SG and PF so how far does that 26 million get you?

Doesnt really matter though...  
Italianju : 2/26/2015 12:26 pm : link
since i cant see SAC trading Cousins to us even if we get the #1 pick. I think PHI would have a better chance since they could offer say the #2 pick and a bunch of other picks. Or #2 and Noel or something like that. Cousins is signed for a couple more seasons so its not like he will have any say in where he goes.
RE: Doesnt really matter though...  
DanMetroMan : 2/26/2015 12:28 pm : link
In comment 12153949 Italianju said:
Quote:
since i cant see SAC trading Cousins to us even if we get the #1 pick. I think PHI would have a better chance since they could offer say the #2 pick and a bunch of other picks. Or #2 and Noel or something like that. Cousins is signed for a couple more seasons so its not like he will have any say in where he goes.


You are more than likely correct but at least the pick gives the Knicks a shot at such "dreams" as does the player they pick. Durant suddenly says "Fuck OKC, I'm out of here" #1 or #2 pick (or say Okafor) has to at least get the Knicks in the door.
I highly doubt  
TommyWiseau : 2/26/2015 12:29 pm : link
they move Cousins anyway but if he was somehow made available, that's a move you do your best to make.
If you get really lucky..  
Italianju : 2/26/2015 12:29 pm : link
you might be able to go out and get a Mathews or Danny Green at SG and still possibly Monroe (monroe at 16 and a SG around 10) although im not sure what kind of fit monroe/cousins would be. PG would be the issue i think as there are not many out there with R. Jackon and Dragic gone.
outside of Anthony Davis  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 2/26/2015 12:31 pm : link
I don't think there's a Big with as much trade value as Cousins.

Maybe Blake Griffin? But I think I'd take Boogie because of his size.
RE: If you get really lucky..  
DanMetroMan : 2/26/2015 12:31 pm : link
In comment 12153955 Italianju said:
Quote:
you might be able to go out and get a Mathews or Danny Green at SG and still possibly Monroe (monroe at 16 and a SG around 10) although im not sure what kind of fit monroe/cousins would be. PG would be the issue i think as there are not many out there with R. Jackon and Dragic gone.


In fairness, Rome wasn't built in a day so if our 2015-2016 PG situation wasn't "great" it would still be a fun team and a nice core.
I def agree Dan...  
Italianju : 2/26/2015 12:31 pm : link
it gets us in the conversation which wouldnt have happened before. I just think we need one or two more assets. I mean it took CLE trading #1 and Bennett to get Love. I know Bennett stinks but he still had massive upside.
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