but it's hard for me to get crazy about the bedroom habits of consenting, of age adults operating within the law.
I don't get crazy about that, but I find it somewhat troubling that a show like this (along with a very different train wreck like Honey Boo Boo or whatever that was) can actually get ratings. And before you say porn gets ratings remember this is on A&E so it won't be porn.
Some of them like to fuck more than one person, too? And they find a partner that has the same appetites?
Who'da thunk it?
You're right, though. Instead of being okay and out in the open, people like this should lie and cheat on their spouses, because nothing keeps America from degradation like infidelity.
but it's hard for me to get crazy about the bedroom habits of consenting, of age adults operating within the law.
I don't get crazy about that, but I find it somewhat troubling that a show like this (along with a very different train wreck like Honey Boo Boo or whatever that was) can actually get ratings. And before you say porn gets ratings remember this is on A&E so it won't be porn.
It gets ratings because people are interested in these sorts of things.
Not because they want to do it, but because it's so different than what they do.
People like plenty of fictional fantasy shit because it is different from their own reality. This is the same kind of idea except it's "real" (as real as TV at least).
Naw. I know a few swingers. Definitely not my thing, and to be honest- most don't last. Always plenty of hurt feelings and jealousy. Folks that can actually handle it are very rare.
but that creates a market and, as such, I'm okay with it. I've never really seen any reality show of any sort, so it's not something I would watch anyway. As far as concepts go though, the subject disturbs me less than some I've seen like the Amish thing (and even sitcoms with titles like Blackish or FOB (and I actually find some stuff that is funny on FOB) just in the sense that singling out a religious or ethnic group is largely done for ridicule or to point out how "strange" those people are and that seems like commercialized bigotry to me.
that everyone imagines swingers look like. In truth, I suspect it's closer to the HBO Real Sex model, where most of the sexually liberated are disgusting looking fat bodies.
that everyone imagines swingers look like. In truth, I suspect it's closer to the HBO Real Sex model, where most of the sexually liberated are disgusting looking fat bodies.
In my experience, I've found this to be pretty accurate.
A whole shit ton of fat subs and/or skinny crack heads.
The best truism I've heard re: Kinksters- "The odds are good, but the goods are odd."
I would imagine with this dumbass movie out and in all the news,
we will get a spate of odd sex stuff trying to be mainstream for a while. Then, hopefully, the fad will pass.
Meh- I'd classify it as "out in the open" more than "mainstream" and certainly far from "odd".
I'm not saying that everyone is into BDSM, but light bondage is certainly pretty damned common, and people have all sorts of kink that they like- they just normally would only share or talk about it with their partner or someone they trust.
I'm generally not in the business of telling people how to live, but as Cam says (and from my handful of friends who have abided similar lifestyles say) such things tend not to last. Aside from any particular impact on these individuals, when you start throwing kids (biological or step) into the occasion there is "third party harm" of sorts. It's one thing to have a little bit of fun before you settle down, even after you settle down, but it's another to venerate hedonism and expect nothing bad to come of it.
interesting they chose Ohio as it far more popular becoming mainstream in the big cities. Miami/Lauderdale, NYC, Atlanta, LA. ESPECIALLY south Florida though. By the way the generalization that most the folks are old and/or fat are way off. Some very some goodlooking folks in the Lifestyle(many of whom in their 20's/30's). Except the Villages of course. Not that I have any personal experience in the matter.
some of you guys are missing the point of the thread
before they started popping out kids. They're a good looking couple too. I sometimes fantasized about it but there's no way I coud have went through with it.
RE: A good buddy of mine and his wife were swingers
before they started popping out kids. They're a good looking couple too. I sometimes fantasized about it but there's no way I coud have went through with it.
I am sure it would be OK, the wives could have watched:)
RE: RE: A good buddy of mine and his wife were swingers
before they started popping out kids. They're a good looking couple too. I sometimes fantasized about it but there's no way I coud have went through with it.
I am sure it would be OK, the wives could have watched:)
That's funny, that's exactly how I (jokingly) pitched it to the wife. She wasn't very amused.
people enjoying their sex lives? Good for them, whatever blows your hair back
People might actually tune into a reality TV show to observe this?
Good grief.
This idea that nobody can call into question any sort of behavior lest he be sloughed off as a judgmental prick is relatively and yet has become pretty pervasive. But there are legit questions to be asked about whether this is generally good for the participants, or for the wider public who comes to view at least some of this as something other than a departure from normative behavior. Divorce rates are astronomical, as are the rates of single parenthood and out-of-wedlock births. Not everyone who wonders aloud if these are positive developments is a Bible-thumper or a loon.
How would this tie in? I haven't see any statistics on people who watch swingers on tv. Are they more or less likely to divorce? Do swingers themselves divorce more?
A number of prominent, god-fearing, condemned-to-hell-for-divorcing figures have multiple marriages. If they can't hold it together, I'm amazed anyone can.
that were swingers and threw all kinds of parties. They eventually split up and moved away. The people that bought the house said the master suite had two seperate bedrooms and a sitting parlor.
How would this tie in? I haven't see any statistics on people who watch swingers on tv. Are they more or less likely to divorce? Do swingers themselves divorce more?
A number of prominent, god-fearing, condemned-to-hell-for-divorcing figures have multiple marriages. If they can't hold it together, I'm amazed anyone can.
The point is that every time someone points to some particular sexual proclivity as evidence of our national moral decline (as in this case) they are laughed off as judgmental. But these are evolving conceptions of acceptable behavior (some behaviors remain outside the range of acceptable in the Western world now and hopefully always will be) that are tied in to wider social changes that may or may not be positive. Some of these changes, whether they have unintended consequences or not, I would argue are so important that they need to happen with or without that conversation (social acceptance and equal legal standing for gays and lesbians), but for some it is less obvious.
RE: some of you guys are missing the point of the thread
people enjoying their sex lives? Good for them, whatever blows your hair back
People might actually tune into a reality TV show to observe this?
Good grief.
That's exactly it. I could care less what people do in the privacy of their homes. I Just can't believe there's a reality show about it. It's ridiculous what people will watch.
How would this tie in? I haven't see any statistics on people who watch swingers on tv. Are they more or less likely to divorce? Do swingers themselves divorce more?
A number of prominent, god-fearing, condemned-to-hell-for-divorcing figures have multiple marriages. If they can't hold it together, I'm amazed anyone can.
The point is that every time someone points to some particular sexual proclivity as evidence of our national moral decline (as in this case) they are laughed off as judgmental. But these are evolving conceptions of acceptable behavior (some behaviors remain outside the range of acceptable in the Western world now and hopefully always will be) that are tied in to wider social changes that may or may not be positive. Some of these changes, whether they have unintended consequences or not, I would argue are so important that they need to happen with or without that conversation (social acceptance and equal legal standing for gays and lesbians), but for some it is less obvious.
People talk about a moral decline in this country have no concept of history. This nonexistent idealized yesteryear is set sometime when a lot of people were property, or couldn't vote, or couldn't marry who they wanted, or needed the Feds help to attend school.
And I don't see how this would be considered a societal change, as I haven't seen anything suggesting that this behavior has increased recently.
to suggest that things that were illegal in many states a few decades ago have likely increased in recent years? With new technology and the internet exhibitionism in the form of naked pictures and homemade videos are pretty obviously on the rise? Without question the "good old days" weren't especially good if you were African-American, gay, in many ways if you were a woman. But improvements in the lot of historically disadvantaged groups did not require the illegitimacy rate to top 40% or single parenthood to hit roughly 25%.
Without evidence, I guess we can claim anything we'd like
Plato's Retreat closed decades ago, the bath houses are gone, not seeing the trend.
We've got old fashioned polygamy legal again in Utah, maybe we can stop classifying their kids as single parent raised.
Still missing the tie in of swingers with illegitimate kids. Have you any of these people? They're middle aged and married, the exact opposite of what you're talking about.
RE: Without evidence, I guess we can claim anything we'd like
Plato's Retreat closed decades ago, the bath houses are gone, not seeing the trend.
We've got old fashioned polygamy legal again in Utah, maybe we can stop classifying their kids as single parent raised.
Still missing the tie in of swingers with illegitimate kids. Have you any of these people? They're middle aged and married, the exact opposite of what you're talking about.
And as I mentioned from the outset I'm not talking just about swingers, I'm talking about the idea that just about anything goes and people who suggest otherwise should simply be dismissed as judgmental pricks.
Oddly tying in illegitimate children and the divorce rate is the strangeness here.
So? That's the point. Are we unable to have conversations about what might be, or what might not be, a social good? The fear of being deemed judgmental and the feel of feeling oneself a hypocrite. Conceptions of what constitutes a/the good life and whether hedonism can provide a path to it, or whether acceptance of it can have adverse individual and social consequences. It's not pithy moralism, these are legitimate inquiries.
You want to make judgments, but don't like being called judgemental
I keep reading you ask Dunedin81 for statistics linking swingers to divorce rates, etc. I think you misread him initially and are fighting a fight you really don't need to.
What he actually said was:
Quote:
...there are legit questions to be asked about whether this is generally good for the participants, or for the wider public who comes to view at least some of this as something other than a departure from normative behavior. Divorce rates are astronomical, as are the rates of single parenthood and out-of-wedlock births.
I think you are expecting him to defend an assertion that swinger behavior is the cause for high divorce rates, etc.
Can you see that he is suggesting that we look into the effects of these things, and not that he is asserting there is definitive proof of anything?
Why should one who suggests that further questions be asked about ANYTHING be required to provide proof for the question to even be entertained?
I think that's kind of his point. Clear me up if I'm wrong on that Dunedin81.
but I interpreted his point to be a reflection of the general moral decay of society..and this is just a piece of it...so it deserves discussion in that vein?
that all of our flaws are novel. I'm not sure there was something inherently nobler about the 19th Century tradition of marrying for money/status/expectations and leaving the woman and the kids at home while you patronized one of the brothels and bordellos that were ubiquitous in even minor American cities, or marriages that may have lasted in the past because a husband beating a wife was then socially acceptable and her recourse minimal. Or that the supposed virtues of the handful of brief periods of heightened religiosity are representative of the whole of the recent past. But men and women much wiser than I am have made the connection between selfishness (even narcissism) and hedonism and various species of social malaise. I am not suggesting some sort of definitive, quantifiable causal connection between swingers and divorce and illegitimacy, you could never isolate that as a variable.
I could be wrong, but he's making connections that I've never heard of
I'm not asking for stats, but if you want to tie something nebulous like 'hedonism' to a result, or a trend, or really anything, I'm curious what it's based on. And it begs the question that hedonism is somehow on the rise.
I don't get crazy about that, but I find it somewhat troubling that a show like this (along with a very different train wreck like Honey Boo Boo or whatever that was) can actually get ratings. And before you say porn gets ratings remember this is on A&E so it won't be porn.
Some of them like to fuck more than one person, too? And they find a partner that has the same appetites?
Who'da thunk it?
You're right, though. Instead of being okay and out in the open, people like this should lie and cheat on their spouses, because nothing keeps America from degradation like infidelity.
Quote:
but it's hard for me to get crazy about the bedroom habits of consenting, of age adults operating within the law.
I don't get crazy about that, but I find it somewhat troubling that a show like this (along with a very different train wreck like Honey Boo Boo or whatever that was) can actually get ratings. And before you say porn gets ratings remember this is on A&E so it won't be porn.
It gets ratings because people are interested in these sorts of things.
Not because they want to do it, but because it's so different than what they do.
People like plenty of fictional fantasy shit because it is different from their own reality. This is the same kind of idea except it's "real" (as real as TV at least).
Naw. I know a few swingers. Definitely not my thing, and to be honest- most don't last. Always plenty of hurt feelings and jealousy. Folks that can actually handle it are very rare.
Lifestyle tourism. Some people enjoy shows following the lives of folks whose operate by a very different set of rules than they do.
Folks who like to watch large men in matching shirts smash into each other every weekend aren't exactly in a position to throw stones.
In my experience, I've found this to be pretty accurate.
A whole shit ton of fat subs and/or skinny crack heads.
The best truism I've heard re: Kinksters- "The odds are good, but the goods are odd."
Meh- I'd classify it as "out in the open" more than "mainstream" and certainly far from "odd".
I'm not saying that everyone is into BDSM, but light bondage is certainly pretty damned common, and people have all sorts of kink that they like- they just normally would only share or talk about it with their partner or someone they trust.
People might actually tune into a reality TV show to observe this?
Good grief.
I am sure it would be OK, the wives could have watched:)
Quote:
before they started popping out kids. They're a good looking couple too. I sometimes fantasized about it but there's no way I coud have went through with it.
I am sure it would be OK, the wives could have watched:)
That's funny, that's exactly how I (jokingly) pitched it to the wife. She wasn't very amused.
People might actually tune into a reality TV show to observe this?
Good grief.
This idea that nobody can call into question any sort of behavior lest he be sloughed off as a judgmental prick is relatively and yet has become pretty pervasive. But there are legit questions to be asked about whether this is generally good for the participants, or for the wider public who comes to view at least some of this as something other than a departure from normative behavior. Divorce rates are astronomical, as are the rates of single parenthood and out-of-wedlock births. Not everyone who wonders aloud if these are positive developments is a Bible-thumper or a loon.
A number of prominent, god-fearing, condemned-to-hell-for-divorcing figures have multiple marriages. If they can't hold it together, I'm amazed anyone can.
A number of prominent, god-fearing, condemned-to-hell-for-divorcing figures have multiple marriages. If they can't hold it together, I'm amazed anyone can.
The point is that every time someone points to some particular sexual proclivity as evidence of our national moral decline (as in this case) they are laughed off as judgmental. But these are evolving conceptions of acceptable behavior (some behaviors remain outside the range of acceptable in the Western world now and hopefully always will be) that are tied in to wider social changes that may or may not be positive. Some of these changes, whether they have unintended consequences or not, I would argue are so important that they need to happen with or without that conversation (social acceptance and equal legal standing for gays and lesbians), but for some it is less obvious.
People might actually tune into a reality TV show to observe this?
Good grief.
That's exactly it. I could care less what people do in the privacy of their homes. I Just can't believe there's a reality show about it. It's ridiculous what people will watch.
Look at this crap:
Beyond scared straight
Donnie loves Jenny
Duck Dynasty
Wahlburgers
Duck Commander: Before the dynasty
Shipping wars
Storage wars
Etc... Etc..
The massive loss of brain cells this station alone causes on a weekly basis should be grounds for a lawsuit of some sorts.
Barf!! - ( New Window )
Quote:
How would this tie in? I haven't see any statistics on people who watch swingers on tv. Are they more or less likely to divorce? Do swingers themselves divorce more?
A number of prominent, god-fearing, condemned-to-hell-for-divorcing figures have multiple marriages. If they can't hold it together, I'm amazed anyone can.
The point is that every time someone points to some particular sexual proclivity as evidence of our national moral decline (as in this case) they are laughed off as judgmental. But these are evolving conceptions of acceptable behavior (some behaviors remain outside the range of acceptable in the Western world now and hopefully always will be) that are tied in to wider social changes that may or may not be positive. Some of these changes, whether they have unintended consequences or not, I would argue are so important that they need to happen with or without that conversation (social acceptance and equal legal standing for gays and lesbians), but for some it is less obvious.
People talk about a moral decline in this country have no concept of history. This nonexistent idealized yesteryear is set sometime when a lot of people were property, or couldn't vote, or couldn't marry who they wanted, or needed the Feds help to attend school.
And I don't see how this would be considered a societal change, as I haven't seen anything suggesting that this behavior has increased recently.
We've got old fashioned polygamy legal again in Utah, maybe we can stop classifying their kids as single parent raised.
Still missing the tie in of swingers with illegitimate kids. Have you any of these people? They're middle aged and married, the exact opposite of what you're talking about.
We've got old fashioned polygamy legal again in Utah, maybe we can stop classifying their kids as single parent raised.
Still missing the tie in of swingers with illegitimate kids. Have you any of these people? They're middle aged and married, the exact opposite of what you're talking about.
And as I mentioned from the outset I'm not talking just about swingers, I'm talking about the idea that just about anything goes and people who suggest otherwise should simply be dismissed as judgmental pricks.
Oddly tying in illegitimate children and the divorce rate is the strangeness here.
Oddly tying in illegitimate children and the divorce rate is the strangeness here.
So? That's the point. Are we unable to have conversations about what might be, or what might not be, a social good? The fear of being deemed judgmental and the feel of feeling oneself a hypocrite. Conceptions of what constitutes a/the good life and whether hedonism can provide a path to it, or whether acceptance of it can have adverse individual and social consequences. It's not pithy moralism, these are legitimate inquiries.
How your tying this behavior into things like the divorce rate and unwed mothers I have no idea.
What he actually said was:
I think you are expecting him to defend an assertion that swinger behavior is the cause for high divorce rates, etc.
Can you see that he is suggesting that we look into the effects of these things, and not that he is asserting there is definitive proof of anything?
Why should one who suggests that further questions be asked about ANYTHING be required to provide proof for the question to even be entertained?
I think that's kind of his point. Clear me up if I'm wrong on that Dunedin81.
Or should I stick to the Kardashians?