Couple of interesting picks here..
- Has Fowler all the way up to number 3 overall to Jacksonville
- Has Kevin White all the way up to 4 to Oakland replacing Amari Cooper
- Has Mariota dropping to Jets at 6
- Has us Picking Scherff at 9th overall, one spot AHEAD of where Cooper is taken 10th overall to rams.
I am all for addressing the O-line but I just think the value isn't there at 9 overall. That's why I am hoping they address it in free agency. In this scenario I would definitely want to take cooper who seems like a safe stud wr pick.
In fact, i'd be absolutely shocked if they didn't. Especially given his results in drills the Giants value higher than most and also, his route running ability.
I tend to agree that the Giants will be addressing OL in FA. I think they go big for Bulaga, Franklin or maybe even Iupati - which frees them up to not feel like they need to pick an immediate starter for the OL. If they strike out on those guys Scherff and Collins are going to be a lot more likely.
It isn't the teams it's guys like McShay.
Let's see who holds more weight. Something tells me it's going to be Mara this time around.
No. You draft talent and all things being equal, with priority picks you draft priority positions. For the Giants it's (QB), WR, DL, DB.
Really tough choice there. Yes, what to do?
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Need. Doesn't need become more of a deciding factor
No. You draft talent and all things being equal, with priority picks you draft priority positions. For the Giants it's (QB), WR, DL, DB.
But what if the Giants view Scherff as an LT?
Dunedin81 : 2/25/2015 4:17 pm : link : reply
in part because of RGIII's failures. Freakish athleticism and crazy performance in the spread coupled with a personality that seems pleasant it almost has to be contrived. The assumption seems to be that because RGIII struggled to become a pro-style QB Mariota will too, but I don't think RGIII struggled because he sucked, I think he struggled because of a perfect storm of self-interested coaching and injury. I don't know for sure that Mariota will be a top NFL QB, but I'd take him in a heartbeat if I had a Top 5 pick and I'd trade up to get him if I had a Top 10 pick and a need.
And that "guard" was Zach Martin, who had FAR superior tape to any of the o-linemen available this year. In addition, Reese has been consistent in saying that he's not counting on Victor Cruz.
Let's see who holds more weight. Something tells me it's going to be Mara this time around.
Since when did John Mara become Jerry Jones?
You are also paying OBJ and Cooper on rookie contracts until VC's contract is up. So you aren't tying too much money into the WR position that turns into one of the biggest strengths in the league.
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if given a "playmaker or a guard", he's picking the playmaker. At #9 overall, with a premium WR staring you in the face, I don't think need is a big factor for NYG.
And that "guard" was Zach Martin, who had FAR superior tape to any of the o-linemen available this year. In addition, Reese has been consistent in saying that he's not counting on Victor Cruz.
Zach Martin's tape wasn't better than any o-lineman in this draft. He was an excellent player at Notre Dame with versatility to transition to any position on the O-Line. His versatility was the value, but he didn't present far superior tape or play to Scherff.
McShay Mock - ( New Window )
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In comment 12154172 Reb8thVA said:
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Need. Doesn't need become more of a deciding factor
No. You draft talent and all things being equal, with priority picks you draft priority positions. For the Giants it's (QB), WR, DL, DB.
But what if the Giants view Scherff as an LT?
No one is saying that. No one. And the Giants have said repeatedly it's the "Blue Goose" they're after. What? They're the only ones who see that. That's more "what if" than is reasonable.
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In comment 12154192 JonC said:
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if given a "playmaker or a guard", he's picking the playmaker. At #9 overall, with a premium WR staring you in the face, I don't think need is a big factor for NYG.
And that "guard" was Zach Martin, who had FAR superior tape to any of the o-linemen available this year. In addition, Reese has been consistent in saying that he's not counting on Victor Cruz.
Zach Martin's tape wasn't better than any o-lineman in this draft. He was an excellent player at Notre Dame with versatility to transition to any position on the O-Line. His versatility was the value, but he didn't present far superior tape or play to Scherff.
I actually like Scherff and think he presents the highest upside of any of the LT prospects, but the idea that he was superior to Zach Martin during their senior seasons is laughable. The OL with the most dominant tape in this draft is... La'el Collins. JMO.
Jon - except that Pugh has never played G and I would say that moving a lineman inside is easier than moving him outside. So if they pick Scherff (which if he's there, I would suspect) they can "hide" him at G with Richburg and Pugh bookending him his rookie year. This would be similar to Dallas' thinking last year with Martin. I just don't see them moving Pugh inside. And i've yet to hear that there is a better (unproven in NY's system) option at RT in FA.
Regarding your "Pugh is their Martin" comment - I would counter with "Scherff is their Martin."
Just my feeling at this point.
Now - that said - i wouldn't be completely surprised by the Cooper pick at #9 IF he's there.
Think about that stability at the Tackle positions. Two young guys bookending at least one really solid Guard and what we project to be a success at C with Richburg.
Sign me up for that.
No. But the point is that it's gotta be a variable if he excels. He's not a pro LT now. But give him two years in the organization and he could be the anchor.
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I haven't read and heard much speculation about Scherff playing LT at the next level, have you heard otherwise?
No. But the point is that it's gotta be a variable if he excels. He's not a pro LT now. But give him two years in the organization and he could be the anchor.
If NYG projects him to LT (or even RT), I can get onboard.
Then it's between Gregory, Collins and Scherff. I'd be fine with the latter two.
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In comment 12154210 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
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In comment 12154192 JonC said:
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if given a "playmaker or a guard", he's picking the playmaker. At #9 overall, with a premium WR staring you in the face, I don't think need is a big factor for NYG.
And that "guard" was Zach Martin, who had FAR superior tape to any of the o-linemen available this year. In addition, Reese has been consistent in saying that he's not counting on Victor Cruz.
Zach Martin's tape wasn't better than any o-lineman in this draft. He was an excellent player at Notre Dame with versatility to transition to any position on the O-Line. His versatility was the value, but he didn't present far superior tape or play to Scherff.
I actually like Scherff and think he presents the highest upside of any of the LT prospects, but the idea that he was superior to Zach Martin during their senior seasons is laughable. The OL with the most dominant tape in this draft is... La'el Collins. JMO.
I lik Scherff and Collins both better than Martin last year. I liked Martin, but think these coming out look better to me. Now will they end up being better? Probably not, but then I like Cooper more than OBJ coming out this year and will he be better than OBJ? Probably not.
You can't judge a player by what they did in the NFL to players that haven't. Coming out Martin wasn't any better than Collins or Scherff.
Wait so with the 9th pick in the draft you wouldn't take an all pro guard? For example Martin was an all pro as a rookie last year at RG... You wouldn't trade the 9th pick for Martin?
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Passed on Cooper for Scherff I would be stunned, first this would go against what Reese has done in the past, and second this is not a left tackle we would be grabbing, I know he can play the position, but like Martin from last season, he is a plug and play guard, and would be a very good one, left tackle is a question mark, and I would never draft a guard at # 9 when you have a player like Cooper there. Could you imagine if Cruz is healthy and we did end up with Cooper, now that is a very scary scenario for anyone in the NFL East.
Wait so with the 9th pick in the draft you wouldn't take an all pro guard? For example Martin was an all pro as a rookie last year at RG... You wouldn't trade the 9th pick for Martin?
If Cooper is there, there's no way I'm making a trade for a G, even if he is an all pro.
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In comment 12154191 BillT said:
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In comment 12154172 Reb8thVA said:
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Need. Doesn't need become more of a deciding factor
No. You draft talent and all things being equal, with priority picks you draft priority positions. For the Giants it's (QB), WR, DL, DB.
But what if the Giants view Scherff as an LT?
No one is saying that. No one. And the Giants have said repeatedly it's the "Blue Goose" they're after. What? They're the only ones who see that. That's more "what if" than is reasonable.
It must be so nice to go through life so assured. As for no one talking about Scherff playing LT I beg to differ. That fact that there is a debate amongst NFL talent evaluators about what his position is means that "someone" is talking about it.
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I haven't read and heard much speculation about Scherff playing LT at the next level, have you heard otherwise?
No. But the point is that it's gotta be a variable if he excels. He's not a pro LT now. But give him two years in the organization and he could be the anchor.
There's a lot of questions about his lateral agility. I don't think LT is an option.
And even if they draft Scherff, it doesn't mean he ends up at guard.
On paper I'd rather have him mauling people at RT and Pugh being the agile, pulling LG like Seubert.
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In comment 12154321 PaulN said:
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Passed on Cooper for Scherff I would be stunned, first this would go against what Reese has done in the past, and second this is not a left tackle we would be grabbing, I know he can play the position, but like Martin from last season, he is a plug and play guard, and would be a very good one, left tackle is a question mark, and I would never draft a guard at # 9 when you have a player like Cooper there. Could you imagine if Cruz is healthy and we did end up with Cooper, now that is a very scary scenario for anyone in the NFL East.
Wait so with the 9th pick in the draft you wouldn't take an all pro guard? For example Martin was an all pro as a rookie last year at RG... You wouldn't trade the 9th pick for Martin?
If Cooper is there, there's no way I'm making a trade for a G, even if he is an all pro.
I am honestly shocked. That is why we all have different opinions though. Wouldn't be fun if we all agreed... I would take the All pro OG over a chance Cooper would be a great #2 WR. What good it is to have 4 good WRs if you don't give your QB time to throw or can't run the ball. Can you imagine what an All Pro OG could do for this team.
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In comment 12154282 JonC said:
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I haven't read and heard much speculation about Scherff playing LT at the next level, have you heard otherwise?
No. But the point is that it's gotta be a variable if he excels. He's not a pro LT now. But give him two years in the organization and he could be the anchor.
There's a lot of questions about his lateral agility. I don't think LT is an option.
And even if they draft Scherff, it doesn't mean he ends up at guard.
On paper I'd rather have him mauling people at RT and Pugh being the agile, pulling LG like Seubert.
From what I've seen he's a bit tight in the hips and plays a bit back in his bucket step leading to too much weight on his heels. This leaves him open to speed rushers no doubt.
That said, to give him two years to develop a bit more quickness and flexibility year-round wouldn't put him out of the realm of possibility to move to LT. Sure a lot of things have to fall into place.
He projects as a G right now. A very good NFL guard.
I don't see him at either T spot at this point. And as I've said, Pugh is the RT and there is no reason to move him to G in their current situation.
Hahaha, you think?
^^^^
This
You address the OL in FA, draft the blue-chip WR at 9, then draft another highly rated OL in rounds 2 or 3.
Our defense is also a mess with personnel holes everywhere. There is only so much cap space for free agent activity.
Both these areas are in worse shape than WR on our roster imo. Just to put some perspective in place for those clamouring for a WR @ #9.
I know you guys all want Cooper (and i'm certainly not against the pick if something crazy happens) but I'm afraid that is beyond wishful thinking.
And not to mention the fact that knowing the Jets - they are sick and tired of hearing about the Giants superstar WR - they want one of those too - if for no other reason to create some sort of bullshit rivalry between the two. But that's the Jets, folks. Fuckin weird.
Is anyone worried both will be taken by the time we pick?
Is anyone worried both will be taken by the time we pick?
No b/c Parker is right there with them and may have the highest upside of the 3.
for some reason that didnt seem to stop OBJ from getting the ball a lot..