Thinking it has to be pass rusher

In comment 12155099 bc4life said:

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Posted before editing. Cruz return to form certainly not a given. Signs that Randle is finally getting it, but still hasn't lived up to his perceived potential. The point being - presently, we have one wr teams have to game plan for. and Cooper could certainly be the best BPA at 9. Personally, I think Scherff would also be acceptable at # 9. Even if he is not the long term answer at tackle, his potential to be a very good player, for years to come, at the guard position could justify the pick.

I can't see OL at #9, Spag's is going to get his man in the 1st RD. There is more value at WR after Rd#1. I expect more draft choices for the "D" than "O" this year. On JPP, my concern is he only had 3.5 sacks thru 11 games and registered 9 in the last (5) games against questionable OL's. Maybe Fewell changed his schemes, I am not sure but, I question his value in relation to a $15M cap hit. I also think our OL play will be much better with our current personnel and potential FA acquisitions for depth. JMHO.

would they know how to use him? Would they use him like Von Miller? Would they use him as a SAM or a WILL ? Would they move him to the DL on pass rush downs??

If Perry Fewell was the coach I would say no.. SPags I think would come up with ways to utilize his abilities.

WR or pass rusher. If all are off the board, it's a crapshoot.

are overthinking what will happen. Two points:

(1) It's a passing league, which puts a premium on QB, DE, CB, and WR.
(2) Reese has said he likes "playmakers."

With that in mind, I think they are hoping one of Fowler, Cooper, or White slips to them, but understand that this probably won't happen. If not, they try and trade down. If that doesn't work, then Scherff, La'el Collins, and maybe Peat are in the next tier. Beasley, Gregory, and Ray project to 3-4 OLBs, and are probably therefore not highly ranked by the Giants. Good players, but they don't fit our scheme.

The "wild card" is Armstead. Freak athlete with insane measureables. The question is whether Reese is willing to take him at #9 if he can't trade down.

defense this year -- but if Amari Copper (or any other receiver) is available at pick 9 and the Giants have him (that player) ranked higher than the cast of pass rushers, or O & D Linemen available - they should pick the premium receiver

Don't get me wrong here - I am anxious for some new premium D blood to add to the roster - but you don't turn down a superior impact player if they are available

are finally realizing that the combine is just a tool and not an end-all for establishing how a college player may translate to the NFL.

It's a crap shoot and the Giants won last year (Beckham) with the Rams taking second (Donald).

We could use a pass rusher but no matter what- you need to take the player that is most likely to make the most positive impact on the team. -best playmaker in round one.

If Shaq Thompson is in the thinking.

I have no problem with him doing that. I just can't understand why Reese who is the master of saying nothing about his feelings towards a draft would say this. Was it a smokescreen or a slip of the tongue? Was he setting himself up for trade offers if Cooper or White are on the board at 9? Would his statement encourage teams interested in Cooper or White to leapfrog the Giants on draft day? If two QB's and two WR's are drafted in the top eight picks, will that guarantee someone of value for O-line AND D-line at 9?

Unless the Giants alter the basic prototype they look for along the DL due to some wrinkles in the 4-3 concepts that Spagnuolo will try to implement, these seem to be the prospects that fit the best (assuming Leonard Williams and Fowler are gone by 9):

Arik Armstead. A mammoth of a man standing almost 6'8 and 292 lbs who is just scratching the surface. Was consensus #1 HS player according to scout.com and 247sports. Played much OL in HS and was utilized in 3-4. Still very raw due to lack of time playing on DL. Has very rare combination of size, strength and quickness. Has shown enough flashes on tape that he has ability to be dominant once he matures/understands the nuances of playing DL. Frequently pushes back lineman he faces into backfield and could become a consistant force in disrupting passing game once he learns better technique. Can play the Canty/Tuck role of DE/DT with his combination of size and quickness. Giants may see a guy with a ton of untapped potential as they did with JPP a few years back.

Preston Smith. 6'5 271 lbs. Monster final season at Mississippi. Has very good combination of size and strength. Superb combine numbers for a man his size. Kiper on Smith: “You can’t be as productive as he was in the SEC, have a great [scouting combine] workout--his numbers across the board were outstanding--and not go in the first round in this league right now. You have the size with him, the ability, and you have the production. You put it all together and he’s a first round pick.” also " This guy had nine sacks, 15 hurries this year, blocked a couple kicks, had a couple interceptions. He was very active in Mississippi State’s defensive front, and he had a great workout.” Some may think 9 is too high and it could be but this guy could easily be a late riser as he checks off almost all the boxes.

Owa Odighizuwa. Slightly on shorter side of the 'ideal' prototype at 6'3 but still carries a strong frame and bulk for 4-3 DE in Giants system. Excellent combine numbers and has room to improve in the pros under NFL tutelage. Hip surgeries and propensity for future injury make him a risky proposition at 9.

Henry Anderson. Even better combine numbers than Armstead. Also possesses very unique combination of height/weight/speed/strength. Can line-up all over DL. Not likely at 9 but could be possibility later in draft.

Wild card pick for pass-rusher would be Vic Beasley. Amazing combination of quicks and change of direction also blazing fast off the edge. When of top combines overall out of all prospects. This is exactly the type of skillset they were hoping for when they drafted Sintim high 2nd to play hybrid DE/LB role.

In comment 12155101 Milton said:

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Quote: and they absolutely WILL NOT take a TE over a WR. If they have Maxx Williams and a WR equally graded as the BPA at #9, why wouldn't they take him over the WR? I would!

They don't grade TEs and WRs equally. A highly graded WR is more valuable to them than a highly graded TE.

dumbest comments in one post?

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People AcidTest : 8:37 am : link : reply are overthinking what will happen. Two points: (1) It's a passing league, which puts a premium on QB, DE, CB, and WR.

With it being a passing league, for me, the premium is on the select few players who can actually shut down an elite passing game (i.e. a shutdown corner or an exceptional pass rusher).

If any Joe off the street can walk and and rack up 1000 yards, I'd be less inclined to use a top 10 pick on a skill position player, not more inclined.

with Beckham, Cruz and Cooper/White/Parker at WR, and a new speedy, pass-catching RB in the backfield. Who you going to double cover ? Free agency and 2nd-4th round will get you the OL pieces you need. Also, I would love Fowler for DE on one side and JPP on the other. Fowler is the only DE I would take at #9 (and he won't be available). Depending on how the draft unfolds, I would love for GMEN to trade down 4-5 spots, get a very solid player, and add another pick. Lots of solid players in this draft that will help rebuild the roster.

At #9? Virtually no chance. Many NFL analysts and scouts feel he's best suited to RUNNING BACK. While the style he displayed in college was entertaining, the positional uncertainty makes it difficult to project him to the NFL. I think many overrate him here because he was a collegiate wildman at LB.

In comment 12155069 Toastt34 said:

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You pass on Cooper because we just got a #1 WR and what are we going to do when we have to pay them 3 years down the road?? We're more bare on playmakers than on pass rushers.

I agree, I disagree with the whole post. If Cooper is there you take him.

And as for the Shaq calls, you don't take a project at #9 overall

to get their sh#t together.....shaq at #9? odi at #9?

shaq may b 3rd round at this point. odi had double hip surgery and missed an entire season. lets get a grip

are not going at 9

that might be an option plays like in the arse, they're all undersized in terms of 4-3 DE and complete two-way skillsets. That's what makes them risky picks for NYG.

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In comment 12155425 JonC said:

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Armstead?

consideration. Way too raw, not even sure he's got enough skills for 4-3 DE, he might be better suited to 3-4 DE.

Would tend to agree but don't know what Giants may see in this kid. JPP was considered very raw by many too yet we still saw enough projectability to make the pick.

His skillset is quite unique and though production wasn't there he does flash that dominant ability enough that you know it will likely be repeatable with more refinement.

I've not seen the same regard for AA. Perhaps #40 is a different endgame.

In comment 12155155 JonC said:

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WR or pass rusher. If all are off the board, it's a crapshoot.

JonC, whom do you think the Giants define as all the pass rushers and pass receivers worthy of the 9th selection? I assume Cooper, White, Williams and Fowler are gone. Among Gregory, Ray, Dupree and Beasley I'm kinda doubting there is any 4-3 DE. Of that group, can any one grow into a 4-3 DE? You wanna spend 9 on a 4-3 project?

IMO Dupree is the best bet to grow into a 4-3 DE, but at 9? Parker or Gordon or the best OL on their board, IMO.

In comment 12155451 JonC said:

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I've not seen the same regard for AA. Perhaps #40 is a different endgame.

His name has popped up in the top 15-20 in a couple places. I am personally not a fan with the other options on the board but we know how important investing in DE is in the draft for Gmen. Preston Smith could be a late riser too.

In comment 12155462 BlueLou said:

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IMO Dupree is the best bet to grow into a 4-3 DE, but at 9? Parker or Gordon or the best OL on their board, IMO.

Gordon may have 'only' ran a 4.5 but when you flip on the tape he is routinely running away from DBs down the field on huge TD runs and is rarely caught from behind.

His lateral agility makes LBs look silly on the second level. His vision,burst and ability to fire through the smallest holes is outstanding.

One of the best Rbs to come out in years IMO.

I think Dupree is the most NYG-like pick, and I think he can play 4-3 DE in a rotation. I don't like Fowler for NYG, he's best suited to 3-4 OLB imo. At #9, it seems a reach.

The key is what does NYG want moving forward defensively. Do they want an edge defender who's more mobile, explosive, has more speed? Speed and AA are needed to combat modern spread offenses. If they're moving the paradigm in this direction, then Vic and Ray are options.

I think Parker will slip, and Gordon is only an option if the tier is basically empty at #9. imo.

When you watch Dupree, what does he do so even consider being the no 9 pick outside of fitting the size the Giants generally like. What exactly did Dupree do that is any better than D. Moore. In highlights, Moore looked much better

Fowler is the 1 DE I would grab at 9. He has already played DE at a weight heavier than Dupree is and he is a much better player than Dupree is

Armstead is tall - great. He looked totally underwhelming in 2 games against big boy competition

If Fowler is gone get a DE later,

In comment 12155478 JonC said:

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I think Dupree is the most NYG-like pick, and I think he can play 4-3 DE in a rotation. I don't like Fowler for NYG, he's best suited to 3-4 OLB imo. At #9, it seems a reach. The key is what does NYG want moving forward defensively. Do they want an edge defender who's more mobile, explosive, has more speed? Speed and AA are needed to combat modern spread offenses. If they're moving the paradigm in this direction, then Vic and Ray are options. I think Parker will slip, and Gordon is only an option if the tier is basically empty at #9. imo.

Well said. TC did make specific mention of Steve learning much since he left specifically referencing his time with the Ravens. That paradigm shift you speak of could come into play at 9. Vic Beasley to me could be one of the best pass rushing weapons available. Could have Von Miller like impact if utilized properly.

We're not going to agree on Fowler. He's a Steelers/Ravens 3-4 OLB imv.

I don't love Dupree at #9. His film is very reminiscent of Ziggy Ansah, whom I also liked for NYG. Not at #9.

Also, I didn't like Moore in the draft and still don't think he'll be what his fans believe.

In comment 12155474 Coach Mason said:

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In comment 12155462 BlueLou said: Quote: IMO Dupree is the best bet to grow into a 4-3 DE, but at 9? Parker or Gordon or the best OL on their board, IMO. Gordon may have 'only' ran a 4.5 but when you flip on the tape he is routinely running away from DBs down the field on huge TD runs and is rarely caught from behind. His lateral agility makes LBs look silly on the second level. His vision,burst and ability to fire through the smallest holes is outstanding. One of the best Rbs to come out in years IMO.

You don't need to convince me about Gordon, coach. We are a minority, but a few of us here are convinced Gordon is worthy of 9 overall.

Are any of the OL in play at #9?

I haven't heard anything yet, but I'd wager Scherff will be on the tier.

I thought Peat would be as well, but Colin had been hearing otherwise leading up to the Combines, so we'll have to wait it out on him.

Other than those two, I don't think OL will be in play at #9. I know Collins has many fans on BBI, but I don't believe NYG will view him as a significant upgrade over Pugh.

I look at it this way - Fowler has already played better football than both Dupree and Moore, and he did it playing DE at almost 280lbs.

He has the ability and has played with the weight to do so. That fact that he played at that weight, to me, does not make him a 'tweener' I think teams see a guy who can get back to that weight or stay where he is.

I think he provides options and that is why I do not expect him to be there at 9 anyway

His best fit isn't 4-3 DE imv, I'd prefer a better fit especially that high in the draft.

be a DT in a 43. Similar to chris canty

Think he is clearly on tape one of the 2-3 best defensive players on tape in this year's draft...and was a college defensive player of the year candidate with huge production....the concern with Beasley is he is his size and that he is too small for DE...the combine proves he might be too small for DE..but he came in at 246 ran a phenomenal 4.53 and demonstrated that he has the movement skills to be an LB...and was outstanding in drills showing tremendous movement skills...the tape looks amongst the best available defensive players the combine looked even better...picking Beasley to me looks almost like a sure thing...almost like Aaron Donald last year...hope if he is available @9 Reece gives Beasley serious consideration
Vic Beasley Put on a Show at the Combine - ( New Window )

In comment 12155572 area junc said:

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be a DT in a 43. Similar to chris canty

DT primarily with rotation in at DE on some run downs and short yardage situations.

In comment 12155089 JohnB said:

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The best player in the 2014 draft dropped to #12. The second best player dropped to #16. The answer is "of course the 2nd best player might drop to #9."

And the 2nd or 3rd Best Player Defensive Rookie of the year Aaron Donald dropped to #13

In comment 12155778 geelabee said:

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Think he is clearly on tape one of the 2-3 best defensive players on tape in this year's draft...and was a college defensive player of the year candidate with huge production....the concern with Beasley is he is his size and that he is too small for DE...the combine proves he might be too small for DE..but he came in at 246 ran a phenomenal 4.53 and demonstrated that he has the movement skills to be an LB...and was outstanding in drills showing tremendous movement skills...the tape looks amongst the best available defensive players the combine looked even better...picking Beasley to me looks almost like a sure thing...almost like Aaron Donald last year...hope if he is available @9 Reece gives Beasley serious consideration Vic Beasley Put on a Show at the Combine - ( New Window )

Beasley is beastly. But may only fit here in a similiar role they envisioned for Sintim (DE/LB). He's too light to play exclusively with his hand in the dirt. Giants would have to believe he can be productive as a LB too i.e a modicum of coverage ability , ability to play in space, as well as read the flow of the play from second level and attack the right gap etc.

I am impressed with his fluidity,hips and c.o.d ability a whole lot more than I was Sintim and think he could potentially do it.

In comment 12155812 Coach Mason said:

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In comment 12155778 geelabee said: Quote: Think he is clearly on tape one of the 2-3 best defensive players on tape in this year's draft...and was a college defensive player of the year candidate with huge production....the concern with Beasley is he is his size and that he is too small for DE...the combine proves he might be too small for DE..but he came in at 246 ran a phenomenal 4.53 and demonstrated that he has the movement skills to be an LB...and was outstanding in drills showing tremendous movement skills...the tape looks amongst the best available defensive players the combine looked even better...picking Beasley to me looks almost like a sure thing...almost like Aaron Donald last year...hope if he is available @9 Reece gives Beasley serious consideration Vic Beasley Put on a Show at the Combine - ( New Window ) Beasley is beastly. But may only fit here in a similiar role they envisioned for Sintim (DE/LB). He's too light to play exclusively with his hand in the dirt. Giants would have to believe he can be productive as a LB too i.e a modicum of coverage ability , ability to play in space, as well as read the flow of the play from second level and attack the right gap etc. I am impressed with his fluidity,hips and c.o.d ability a whole lot more than I was Sintim and think he could potentially do it.

I totally agree with you if he shows the kind of lucidity in his private workouts to be what the Giants envisioned with OL/DE Sintum he should be the pick...Beasley is this year's Aaron Donald...the production is off the charts...and we are looking at an extremely fast player(running a 4.53 forty) that pound 4 pound might be amongst the strongest players in this year's draft...Beasley matched Donald's 35 bench press reps and is 40lbs lighter!!!

In comment 12155852 geelabee said:

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In comment 12155812 Coach Mason said: Quote: In comment 12155778 geelabee said: Fluidity not lucidity....sorry iPad autocorrect Quote: Think he is clearly on tape one of the 2-3 best defensive players on tape in this year's draft...and was a college defensive player of the year candidate with huge production....the concern with Beasley is he is his size and that he is too small for DE...the combine proves he might be too small for DE..but he came in at 246 ran a phenomenal 4.53 and demonstrated that he has the movement skills to be an LB...and was outstanding in drills showing tremendous movement skills...the tape looks amongst the best available defensive players the combine looked even better...picking Beasley to me looks almost like a sure thing...almost like Aaron Donald last year...hope if he is available @9 Reece gives Beasley serious consideration Vic Beasley Put on a Show at the Combine - ( New Window ) Beasley is beastly. But may only fit here in a similiar role they envisioned for Sintim (DE/LB). He's too light to play exclusively with his hand in the dirt. Giants would have to believe he can be productive as a LB too i.e a modicum of coverage ability , ability to play in space, as well as read the flow of the play from second level and attack the right gap etc. I am impressed with his fluidity,hips and c.o.d ability a whole lot more than I was Sintim and think he could potentially do it. I totally agree with you if he shows the kind of lucidity in his private workouts to be what the Giants envisioned with OL/DE Sintum he should be the pick...Beasley is this year's Aaron Donald...the production is off the charts...and we are looking at an extremely fast player(running a 4.53 forty) that pound 4 pound might be amongst the strongest players in this year's draft...Beasley matched Donald's 35 bench press reps and is 40lbs lighter!!!

the 3 WR amigos (Parker,Cooper,White), Melvin Gordon, Peat and Beasley.

Armstead has the size and potential Giants drool over but I don't want him and his triangle numbers weren't nearly as good as JJ Watt or JPP (hoping the Giants don't take the risk).

He gets eaten alive by NFL sized OTs... If you're hot for a great combine guy, take Dupree. Pray Beasley goes top 8...

In comment 12155935 BlueLou said:

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He gets eaten alive by NFL sized OTs... If you're hot for a great combine guy, take Dupree. Pray Beasley goes top 8...

Bluelou I am hot for Beasley because of the tape...it looks like Donald's tape last year...the best tape of any defensive player in this year's draft...just like Donald last year...the kid can flat out play...runs a 4.53...strongest defensive player lb for lb in this draft...and the combine proves he is fluid and plays in space...I see Beasley as a 250lb Von Miller type stud LB

Scherff, La'el Collins, Gregory, Fowler, and Waynes (in no particular order) or Maxx Williims in a trade down.
p.s.-- There are a bunch of wide receivers in my short lists for the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rounds.

So an edge defender would be ideal. The Fowler/Ray/Beasley trio are intriguing. Interesting to note I have more confidence in this approach following Spags return. I'd be worried if PF was in charge of utilizing these prospects talents.

DT is also in play but I'm not a Shelton guy and don't see value for #9.

If that doesn't materialize I'd look to O-Line as the next priority. There are a number of possibilities it simply depends on how the Giants rate them. To me Scherff is the only legit Top 10 prospect.

WR would be the final position of note for us picking #9. I expect Cooper and White to be major threats. I have both as high floor-high ceiling types.

This analysis will be effected by our ability to make inroads toward addressing our roster deficiencies in Free Agency.

If Reese thinks Beasley can be a Von Miller style Joker, I'm all for it. Otherwise go WR in round 1 and comeback and get some defensive help in round 2.