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Thinking it has to be pass rusher

Mr. Nickels : 2/27/2015 12:01 am
Olineman failed to separate from each other at the combine, we signed Jones, and we really just have one hole which can be filled via free agency.

Kevin White probably goes before our pick now and Cooper could very well make it. Might be tempting to trade him to Rams or Brown for extra pick, but we JUST landed a top WR in Beckham. What are we going to do when it comes time to pay both? Who will be the #1 WR? No chance it's not anyone named Beckham so are we really using our only top 10 pick in a decade to take a # 2 WR?

We won our Super Bowls with the pass rush. And the cupboard is almost bare..

JPP is going to get franchised and could be on a one year rental deal (not sure if we could franchise him twice in a row). I hope we give him a long term deal though.

Kiwanuka was just cut.

Ayers is coming off of surgery.


Damontre Moore is very green an inexperienced. Is he ready to start opposite JPP?

Fowler Gregory Ray. I think one of them will be a Giant and our new DE. Have a feeling it's Gregory who seems to have been passed up by Fowler.

Could Reese shock the world and draft Vic Beasley??
if Jones  
MookGiants : 2/27/2015 12:39 am : link
has any impact on what the Giants do early in the draft they need to clean house in the front office.
I couldn't disagree more with this post.  
Toastt34 : 2/27/2015 1:40 am : link
You pass on Cooper because we just got a #1 WR and what are we going to do when we have to pay them 3 years down the road?? We're more bare on playmakers than on pass rushers.
This is the thing that gets me with Giants fans  
blueblood : 2/27/2015 3:48 am : link
The whole we have ONE WR.. we dont need another thing.. your worried about paying them FIVE YEARS DOWN THE LINE ??? What if we could win a championship in five years.. Cruz is NOT a lock.. thats a very serious knee injury and you dont know how that knee will respond to football yet.. Randle is a FA after this year and he still has to show he is consistent and warrants a new contract.. After that.. you dont have a bonafide NFL starting receiver in my book..

Yet I see teams like Green Bay and Denver who can have a multiple passing targets and have no issue drafting more and thats why they are in the playoff hunt year after year.. every year we hear.. Its a passing league.. but not in Giants land.. we have ONE GUY.. we dont need anything else..

Were you wringing your hands about this when you had Nicks and Cruz and Manningham ?? NO you werent... Were you worried in 2011 about having to pay Cruz and Nicks in just two years.. NOPE you werent.. In fact if Nicks was still at the top of his game the Giants could have easily created the money to pay BOTH Nicks and Cruz..

DO you realize that the salary cap is going up by a HUGE amount because of the new TV deal next year?

Couldnt you make the same argument to a degree about the pass rushers? How many can you use at the same time? JPP. Ayers. Moore. Kennard. Wynn showed some promise... could they use some depth sure.. could they upgrade a bit.. yes absolutely.

Now can the Giants upgrade in that area.. sure.. can you see Shane Ray as a full time DE taking on a 315-325 left tackle every game for a full season... He is a little too light in the pants to me...Fowler has played at 270 so I can see him doing it. Gregory.. Same issue.. too light in the butt..

The Giants really could use some help with the linebackers. Beasley is the guy IMO that they need.

Were you worried about paying all the pass rushers when you had Strahan and Osi.. and Tuck.. NO you werent..

And in all honesty we didnt win the Superbowls because of the pass rush.. The real reason we won is because in both Superbowls we held teams to under 100 yards rushing.. in 2007 we COMPLETELY shut down the Patriots running game and their screen passes.. That made them ONE dimensional.. then the pass rush took over.. If we didnt shut the run down.. that doesnt happen.. 2011 same thing to a degree.. NE had no running game and no downfield passing attack.. we were able for the most part to keep everything in front of us..

If ANYTHING the Giants need to STOP THE RUN.. Teams last year gashed the hell out of the Giants running the ball.. When teams can consistently get 2nd and 4 and 3rd and less that five.. Your pass rush is negated to a great degree..

Biggest Giants defensive priority in all honesty.. STOP THE RUN..

And if a player like Amari Cooper is available.. You take him and worry about paying him 4-5 years LATER..

the draft is to get the best players that are available  
George from PA : 2/27/2015 4:20 am : link
Cooper would be the pick....Cooper might be 2nd best player in.entire draft............especially over a 3-4 olb edge rusher (Sintim).


Maybe if Fowler drops to us.......a more proto typical Giants DE. But they stay true to their board.......

RE: the draft is to get the best players that are available  
Milton : 2/27/2015 4:38 am : link
In comment 12155083 George from PA said:
Quote:
Cooper would be the pick....Cooper might be 2nd best player in.entire draft
If he's the second best player in the entire draft than he's not going to drop to the Giants, is he?
p.s.-- None of us know what the Giants draft board will look like. But if they have a WR and a DL rated equally, they are going to take the DL. If they have a WR and a DL rated equally, they are going to take the OL. If they have a WR and a TE rated equally, they are going to take the TE. The Giants can find themselves a #2 WR later in the draft. There will be plenty of good ones to choose from.
RE: RE: the draft is to get the best players that are available  
blueblood : 2/27/2015 4:46 am : link
In comment 12155084 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 12155083 George from PA said:


Quote:


Cooper would be the pick....Cooper might be 2nd best player in.entire draft

If he's the second best player in the entire draft than he's not going to drop to the Giants, is he?
p.s.-- None of us know what the Giants draft board will look like. But if they have a WR and a DL rated equally, they are going to take the DL. If they have a WR and a DL rated equally, they are going to take the OL. If they have a WR and a TE rated equally, they are going to take the TE. The Giants can find themselves a #2 WR later in the draft. There will be plenty of good ones to choose from.


Players drop all the the time for multiple different reasons..

Milton Jerry Reese has said clearly that if the grades are equal he is taking the playmaker.. NOW that being said.. you can get playmakers on the DEFENSE as well.. I dont think playmaker means only offense. However OL is not a playmaker position.. and they absolutely WILL NOT take a TE over a WR..
Reese said in is pressed last week BPA..  
Shockwave : 2/27/2015 4:59 am : link
BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE..end of subject.

I agree though if Cooper is there take him, we have one receiver that is pretty much garunteed for the long run in ODB. If he goes down we have Cruz and who knows what's happening with him other than swimming great in a pool.

ODB, Cooper and Cruz for the next 5 years at least?

I'll go through another season of a mediocre OL and look towards future seasons.
blueblood  
Milton : 2/27/2015 5:03 am : link
Quote:
Milton Jerry Reese has said clearly that if the grades are equal he is taking the playmaker.
Believe me, if the Giants draft an OL with the 9th pick, Reese will have all sorts of reasons why he is special and why he is an impact player. One of the beat reporters will remind him of what he said last year about taking the playmaker over the lineman and Reese will then explain that while there were others in the mix (like Davante Parker), it was Scherff (or Collins or whoever) who will help the team the most and he's more than just an OG or ORT.

p.s.-- I have no idea who the Giants will draft with the 9th pick, but if it's a right tackle or guard, it will be a right tackle or guard who the Giants think will be an impact player, not just simply a starter.
Could the 2nd best player drop to #9?  
JohnB : 2/27/2015 5:15 am : link
The best player in the 2014 draft dropped to #12.

The second best player dropped to #16.

The answer is "of course the 2nd best player might drop to #9."
Oh my, where to begin?  
Big Blue Blogger : 2/27/2015 5:33 am : link
Quote:
Olineman failed to separate from each other at the combine...
What were you expecting from the Combine? A 4.5 40 from Andrus Peat? A 6.7 3-cone from La'el Collins? If you want to draft the next Lane Johnson or Robert Gallery, base your choice of offensive linemen on Combine numbers. Jake Fisher was a Combine star this year; it won't make him a top-ten pick. Brandon Scherff's bench press reps were a disappointment; I doubt it affects his draft stock much. Everyone knows he's strong.
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... we signed Jones...
Although Brett Jones is an interesting acquisition, he's also a minimum salary UDFA whose best position will likely be occupied by Weston Richburg. He doesn't influence the top half of the Giants' draft at all.
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... we really just have one hole which can be filled via free agency.
True, if you assume no injuries and a perfect fit in the UFA market. Now look ahead to 2016, when Will Beatty and Geoff Schwartz are both potential cap casualties.
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... we JUST landed a top WR in Beckham. What are we going to do when it comes time to pay both?
You mean In 2019/2020? If they are both superstars for the next four years (roughly the remainder of Eli's career), it will be a nice problem to have. The cap problem at WR isn't Beckham or the #9 pick; it's Cruz, and it will get resolved one way or another long before 2019.
Quote:
... Who will be the #1 WR? No chance it's not anyone named Beckham so are we really using our only top 10 pick in a decade to take a # 2 WR?
There are plenty of targets to feed both, especially if Cruz doesn't turn back the clock to 2011. The #1/#2 thing only matters at contract time which, as noted above, isn't until 2019.
Quote:
We won our Super Bowls with the pass rush.
“This is still a Cruz and Nicks game." - Bill Belichick
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JPP is going to get franchised and could be on a one year rental deal (not sure if we could franchise him twice in a row). I hope we give him a long term deal though.
I agree. And if that happens, everything you've said about WR applies - much more accurately - to DE.
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Kiwanuka was just cut.
As much as I like Kiwi, he's been JaG since the neck injury in 2010.
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Ayers is coming off of surgery.
Ayers's health is a real concern for 2015. It's not directly relevant to the #9 pick, though, since he's a short-term rental anyway (UFA after this season).
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Damontre Moore is very green and inexperienced. Is he ready to start opposite JPP?
He has two more professional seasons under his belt than the #9 pick, whoever it is.
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Fowler Gregory Ray. I think one of them will be a Giant and our new DE. Have a feeling it's Gregory who seems to have been passed up by Fowler.
Certainly possible, though of the top defenders in this draft class he seems like the purest 3-4 edge guy.
Quote:
Could Reese shock the world and draft Vic Beasley??
Sure, the Giants could draft Beasley; why would that shock the world? Because he's listed as a linebacker? So is Gregory. And while he lacks ideal length, Beasley is actually a good deal heavier than Gregory.

If a pass-rusher is on the top tier of their board at #9, the Giants are likely to pick him (though they very well might not). Otherwise, they won't. I think that's about all we can say with much confidence.
Milton......none of know how their draft board line up  
George from PA : 2/27/2015 5:40 am : link
But Lesser players get picked early all the time. QBs get picked earlier. Raiders picks? 3-4 players......will be going off before we pick.

Just guessing......the USC DT and Fowler (DE with the Giants measurables) are probably our top players.

White, Parker and Cooper must be pretty high.....I feel White is a Raider type of player......
RE: Could the 2nd best player drop to #9?  
Milton : 2/27/2015 5:50 am : link
In comment 12155089 JohnB said:
Quote:
The best player in the 2014 draft dropped to #12.

The second best player dropped to #16.

The answer is "of course the 2nd best player might drop to #9."
The second best player could drop all the way to the 7th round for all we know. Look at Tom Brady. But the 2nd best prospect won't drop that far. And right now they are all just prospects. It's not like the Giants had OBJ at the top of their board. Reese admitted that OBJ was in their top ten, but not their top five, and that they had him rated behind Sammy Watkins, but ahead of Mike Evans.
lots of needs  
bc4life : 2/27/2015 5:55 am : link
but Cooper at # 9 would not be acceptable, IMO.
RE: Milton......none of know how their draft board line up  
Milton : 2/27/2015 6:00 am : link
In comment 12155092 George from PA said:
Quote:
But Lesser players get picked early all the time. QBs get picked earlier. Raiders picks? 3-4 players......will be going off before we pick.

Just guessing......the USC DT and Fowler (DE with the Giants measurables) are probably our top players.

White, Parker and Cooper must be pretty high.....I feel White is a Raider type of player......
If I'm just guessing, I think they have Williams, Cooper, White, Gregory, Scherff, Collins, and Trae Waynes in their top ten. But these are just wild guesses on our part and if either of us are right, I would put it under the column of "even a broken clock is right twice a day." It's kind of like trying to guess the color of someone's eyes by the sound of their voice.

p.s.-- Who would've guessed that the top five on the Giants draft board in 2001 were Leonard Davis, Santana Moss, Gerard Warren, Nate Clements, and Andre Carter? Not me. And Davis spent most of his career at guard!
would be acceptable  
bc4life : 2/27/2015 6:00 am : link
Posted before editing. Cruz return to form certainly not a given. Signs that Randle is finally getting it, but still hasn't lived up to his perceived potential. The point being - presently, we have one wr teams have to game plan for.

and Cooper could certainly be the best BPA at 9.

Personally, I think Scherff would also be acceptable at # 9. Even if he is not the long term answer at tackle, his potential to be a very good player, for years to come, at the guard position could justify the pick.

blueblood  
Milton : 2/27/2015 6:28 am : link
Quote:
and they absolutely WILL NOT take a TE over a WR.
If they have Maxx Williams and a WR equally graded as the BPA at #9, why wouldn't they take him over the WR? I would!
fact is that  
TommyWiseau : 2/27/2015 6:35 am : link
We are one injury away from having one of if not the worst WR group in the NFL. With that said, you take Cooper and laugh at every other GM who passed on him
wonder how high  
Dankbeerman : 2/27/2015 6:36 am : link
Waynes is rated on their board. Adding to the secondary is needed would think later rounds but he is considered top 10. Wouldn't love the pick but preferr him over reaching to take landon Collins if they choose to address the secondary. See what fa brings but we have no starting safteys or a nickel signed.
Milton  
robbieballs2003 : 2/27/2015 7:07 am : link
You are missing a big point. Everybody's board will be different. Not every team drafts for value over need. What teams need a WR in the top 8? To me it is Oakland, NYJ and possibly Tennessee. With the way this draft is shaping up, it looks like Winston and Williams are going 1 and 2 which basically takes Tennessee out of the picture. That leaves Oakland and NYJ. Oakland is almost definitely going to get a WR. That leaves the NYJ as the key to this assuming there is no trading going on because we cannot assume that a trade will be made. It sounds like the Jets could possibly take Mariota or trade the pick to Philly who would take Mariota. If that happens then there is a very good chance that one of Cooper or White drop to us. To say that we have no shot at them is trying to predict the future. We very well could have a shot at them. I don't know why you keep discounting that. Nothing is written in stone. This can play out in so many different ways that I don't know how you can totally discount us taking a WR at 9. You may not like it. You may not agree with it. But you cannot discount that possibility.
at this point  
bc4life : 2/27/2015 7:23 am : link
I feel pretty confident in saying, that the positions not in plat at the # 9 pick are:

QB, TE, Safety, RB, and LB (pure lb).

Think it will come down to the following players (not necessarily in this order): Scherff, La'el Collins, Dupree, Fowler, Cooper, or Waynes (least likely IMO).
would bet a big chunk of change  
bc4life : 2/27/2015 7:25 am : link
it will not be Vic Beasley
Robbie  
Milton : 2/27/2015 7:44 am : link
Teams trade up for wide receivers if they need one. Just last year Buffalo gave up this year's first rounder in order to move up from the 9th pick to the 4th pick to grab Watkins, just so they wouldn't have to settle for OBJ.

I guess from my perspective, this WR class is deep, but not top heavy. Not like last year's. Which means the value will come from drafting a WR on day two. In my mind that's the smart way to insure against Cruz not returning to form.

And I figure if this year's class does have a super blue chipper or two in it, they won't last very long when you consider their competition doesn't include any left tackles and the best passrushers are all undersized.
If cooper or white are there  
ANGPASS : 2/27/2015 7:57 am : link
giants jump on them no questions asked. they would be the best players available at 9. there is no way those two guys are not in the top 8 on their board. Take out the QB because the giants are not wasted a 9th pick on a qb.

Also i do agree the OL and DL need additions via the draft and FA, keep in mind, this offense is a quick tempo, quick route offense. So having cooper/white along with cruz and OBJ would give defenses fits and it would help make the O line look better since eli has better weapons that can catch the ball and do something with it.
RE: blueblood  
blueblood : 2/27/2015 8:03 am : link
In comment 12155101 Milton said:
Quote:


Quote:


and they absolutely WILL NOT take a TE over a WR.

If they have Maxx Williams and a WR equally graded as the BPA at #9, why wouldn't they take him over the WR? I would!


Stop deluding yourself Milton NO ONE has Maxx Williams graded as one of the top ten players in the draft...

RE: Robbie  
blueblood : 2/27/2015 8:04 am : link
In comment 12155120 Milton said:
Quote:
Teams trade up for wide receivers if they need one. Just last year Buffalo gave up this year's first rounder in order to move up from the 9th pick to the 4th pick to grab Watkins, just so they wouldn't have to settle for OBJ.

I guess from my perspective, this WR class is deep, but not top heavy. Not like last year's. Which means the value will come from drafting a WR on day two. In my mind that's the smart way to insure against Cruz not returning to form.

And I figure if this year's class does have a super blue chipper or two in it, they won't last very long when you consider their competition doesn't include any left tackles and the best passrushers are all undersized.


Last years class was not top heavy. There were two players that were the consensus top two receivers by most.. Watkins and Evans... and they both went top ten.
Great discussion  
Rjanyg : 2/27/2015 8:06 am : link
It is a complete toss up which way the Giants go in round one. We all know the 5 positions that matter the most in today's NFL:
Passer, Pass Rusher, Pass Receiver, Pass Protector and pass defender. QB, DE or 3 Tech DT, WR or freak TE, OT, CB or super rangy FS. Run stoppers, road graders and rushers can be found in the later rounds.

At this point, we can all agree QB, FS and TE will not be selected so it comes to OT, WR, DE and possibly the CB from Mich St. At this point, it seems like Fowler is considered the best Edge rusher and best defender after Williams. Ray, Gregory and Beasley seem like possibilities at 9, although to me Beasley seems like a Reese pick to me. Of the WR, White had a great combine but Cooper is a pro ready prospect that if available would be a run to the podium pick. Parker is a nice player but seems to be a step below the other 2.

So, it may come down to Cooper and Beasley. I think Cooper is the safer pick even though I feel we need to add play makers to our front 7 on defense very badly. I have a feeling Beasley could have a similar impact that ODB had last year. A freak athlete who is a great football player.

So, I would go Beasley?
The argument  
Glover : 2/27/2015 8:31 am : link
as to why not take Cooper is not very sound, but I agree that if everything is equal (which I don't believe it is) between grades on whichever pass rusher is available and Cooper, then you might take the pass rusher.
But Fowler most likely will be gone, Ray and Gregory I do not like because they will be better suited to play 3-4 OLB.
The Giants may feel that Bealey's talent is comparable to Cooper's and select him, but I really don't like the idea of taking a college DE and making him a SAM.
I generally agree with the philosophy that you take the playmaker over the O lineman, unless the O lineman is just a bonafide blue chip LT, and for whatever reason, no one seems to think there is a single college O lineman that can play LT. I would wager the experts are wrong, and one or more of the top O Line prospects will play left tackle next season and do a pretty god job, but thats for the Giants to decide, and if that belief is stronger than their belief in Cooper's talent, then by all means, take the best O lineman, he will help the pass and run game, but I dint think it will shake out like that.
Cooper is likely the guy, if the drafts go anything like many mocks are going.
I like it.
RE: would be acceptable  
dguy901 : 2/27/2015 8:31 am : link
In comment 12155099 bc4life said:
Quote:
Posted before editing. Cruz return to form certainly not a given. Signs that Randle is finally getting it, but still hasn't lived up to his perceived potential. The point being - presently, we have one wr teams have to game plan for.

and Cooper could certainly be the best BPA at 9.

Personally, I think Scherff would also be acceptable at # 9. Even if he is not the long term answer at tackle, his potential to be a very good player, for years to come, at the guard position could justify the pick.

I can't see OL at #9, Spag's is going to get his man in the 1st RD. There is more value at WR after Rd#1. I expect more draft choices for the "D" than "O" this year. On JPP, my concern is he only had 3.5 sacks thru 11 games and registered 9 in the last (5) games against questionable OL's. Maybe Fewell changed his schemes, I am not sure but, I question his value in relation to a $15M cap hit. I also think our OL play will be much better with our current personnel and potential FA acquisitions for depth. JMHO.
The issue I have with Beasley is the Giants themselves  
blueblood : 2/27/2015 8:33 am : link
would they know how to use him? Would they use him like Von Miller? Would they use him as a SAM or a WILL ? Would they move him to the DL on pass rush downs??

If Perry Fewell was the coach I would say no.. SPags I think would come up with ways to utilize his abilities.
It will most likely come to  
JonC : 2/27/2015 8:34 am : link
WR or pass rusher. If all are off the board, it's a crapshoot.
People  
AcidTest : 2/27/2015 8:37 am : link
are overthinking what will happen. Two points:

(1) It's a passing league, which puts a premium on QB, DE, CB, and WR.
(2) Reese has said he likes "playmakers."

With that in mind, I think they are hoping one of Fowler, Cooper, or White slips to them, but understand that this probably won't happen. If not, they try and trade down. If that doesn't work, then Scherff, La'el Collins, and maybe Peat are in the next tier. Beasley, Gregory, and Ray project to 3-4 OLBs, and are probably therefore not highly ranked by the Giants. Good players, but they don't fit our scheme.

The "wild card" is Armstead. Freak athlete with insane measureables. The question is whether Reese is willing to take him at #9 if he can't trade down.
I have been very vocal about the Giants placing a premium on drafting  
gidiefor : Mod : 2/27/2015 8:38 am : link
defense this year -- but if Amari Copper (or any other receiver) is available at pick 9 and the Giants have him (that player) ranked higher than the cast of pass rushers, or O & D Linemen available - they should pick the premium receiver

Don't get me wrong here - I am anxious for some new premium D blood to add to the roster - but you don't turn down a superior impact player if they are available



I think teams that have been burned  
mrvax : 2/27/2015 8:55 am : link
are finally realizing that the combine is just a tool and not an end-all for establishing how a college player may translate to the NFL.

It's a crap shoot and the Giants won last year (Beckham) with the Rams taking second (Donald).

We could use a pass rusher but no matter what- you need to take the player that is most likely to make the most positive impact on the team. -best playmaker in round one.
I wonder  
OC2.0 : 2/27/2015 9:58 am : link
If Shaq Thompson is in the thinking.
It bothers me that Reese said he would take a playmaker everytime.  
wgenesis123 : 2/27/2015 10:11 am : link
I have no problem with him doing that. I just can't understand why Reese who is the master of saying nothing about his feelings towards a draft would say this. Was it a smokescreen or a slip of the tongue? Was he setting himself up for trade offers if Cooper or White are on the board at 9? Would his statement encourage teams interested in Cooper or White to leapfrog the Giants on draft day? If two QB's and two WR's are drafted in the top eight picks, will that guarantee someone of value for O-line AND D-line at 9?
Potential DE targets  
Coach Mason : 2/27/2015 10:25 am : link

Unless the Giants alter the basic prototype they look for along the DL due to some wrinkles in the 4-3 concepts that Spagnuolo will try to implement, these seem to be the prospects that fit the best (assuming Leonard Williams and Fowler are gone by 9):

Arik Armstead. A mammoth of a man standing almost 6'8 and 292 lbs who is just scratching the surface. Was consensus #1 HS player according to scout.com and 247sports. Played much OL in HS and was utilized in 3-4. Still very raw due to lack of time playing on DL. Has very rare combination of size, strength and quickness. Has shown enough flashes on tape that he has ability to be dominant once he matures/understands the nuances of playing DL. Frequently pushes back lineman he faces into backfield and could become a consistant force in disrupting passing game once he learns better technique. Can play the Canty/Tuck role of DE/DT with his combination of size and quickness. Giants may see a guy with a ton of untapped potential as they did with JPP a few years back.

Preston Smith. 6'5 271 lbs. Monster final season at Mississippi. Has very good combination of size and strength. Superb combine numbers for a man his size. Kiper on Smith: “You can’t be as productive as he was in the SEC, have a great [scouting combine] workout--his numbers across the board were outstanding--and not go in the first round in this league right now. You have the size with him, the ability, and you have the production. You put it all together and he’s a first round pick.” also " This guy had nine sacks, 15 hurries this year, blocked a couple kicks, had a couple interceptions. He was very active in Mississippi State’s defensive front, and he had a great workout.” Some may think 9 is too high and it could be but this guy could easily be a late riser as he checks off almost all the boxes.

Owa Odighizuwa. Slightly on shorter side of the 'ideal' prototype at 6'3 but still carries a strong frame and bulk for 4-3 DE in Giants system. Excellent combine numbers and has room to improve in the pros under NFL tutelage. Hip surgeries and propensity for future injury make him a risky proposition at 9.

Henry Anderson. Even better combine numbers than Armstead. Also possesses very unique combination of height/weight/speed/strength. Can line-up all over DL. Not likely at 9 but could be possibility later in draft.

Wild card pick for pass-rusher would be Vic Beasley. Amazing combination of quicks and change of direction also blazing fast off the edge. When of top combines overall out of all prospects. This is exactly the type of skillset they were hoping for when they drafted Sintim high 2nd to play hybrid DE/LB role.
RE: blueblood  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/27/2015 10:27 am : link
In comment 12155101 Milton said:
Quote:


Quote:


and they absolutely WILL NOT take a TE over a WR.

If they have Maxx Williams and a WR equally graded as the BPA at #9, why wouldn't they take him over the WR? I would!

They don't grade TEs and WRs equally. A highly graded WR is more valuable to them than a highly graded TE.

What's the BBI record for  
drkenneth : 2/27/2015 10:40 am : link
dumbest comments in one post?
I disagree with this notion  
Mike in Long Beach : 2/27/2015 10:43 am : link
Quote:
People
AcidTest : 8:37 am : link : reply
are overthinking what will happen. Two points:

(1) It's a passing league, which puts a premium on QB, DE, CB, and WR.


With it being a passing league, for me, the premium is on the select few players who can actually shut down an elite passing game (i.e. a shutdown corner or an exceptional pass rusher).

If any Joe off the street can walk and and rack up 1000 yards, I'd be less inclined to use a top 10 pick on a skill position player, not more inclined.
The Giants offense could be insane  
gmenrule : 2/27/2015 10:45 am : link
with Beckham, Cruz and Cooper/White/Parker at WR, and a new speedy, pass-catching RB in the backfield. Who you going to double cover ? Free agency and 2nd-4th round will get you the OL pieces you need. Also, I would love Fowler for DE on one side and JPP on the other. Fowler is the only DE I would take at #9 (and he won't be available). Depending on how the draft unfolds, I would love for GMEN to trade down 4-5 spots, get a very solid player, and add another pick. Lots of solid players in this draft that will help rebuild the roster.
RE: Shaq  
JonC : 2/27/2015 10:55 am : link
At #9? Virtually no chance. Many NFL analysts and scouts feel he's best suited to RUNNING BACK. While the style he displayed in college was entertaining, the positional uncertainty makes it difficult to project him to the NFL. I think many overrate him here because he was a collegiate wildman at LB.

RE: I couldn't disagree more with this post.  
AnishPatel : 2/27/2015 10:59 am : link
In comment 12155069 Toastt34 said:
Quote:
You pass on Cooper because we just got a #1 WR and what are we going to do when we have to pay them 3 years down the road?? We're more bare on playmakers than on pass rushers.



I agree, I disagree with the whole post. If Cooper is there you take him.
Beasley is, as Sy56 said, "too light in the pants"  
Victor in CT : 2/27/2015 11:04 am : link
And as for the Shaq calls, you don't take a project at #9 overall
people need  
area junc : 2/27/2015 11:29 am : link
to get their sh#t together.....shaq at #9? odi at #9?

shaq may b 3rd round at this point. odi had double hip surgery and missed an entire season. lets get a grip


Odi and Shaq  
Coach Mason : 2/27/2015 11:32 am : link
are not going at 9
Every edge rusher at #9  
JonC : 2/27/2015 11:45 am : link
that might be an option plays like in the arse, they're all undersized in terms of 4-3 DE and complete two-way skillsets. That's what makes them risky picks for NYG.
light in the arse  
JonC : 2/27/2015 11:45 am : link
.
RE: light in the arse  
Coach Mason : 2/27/2015 11:47 am : link
In comment 12155425 JonC said:
Quote:
.


Armstead?
I don't think there's any way he carries the grade for #9  
JonC : 2/27/2015 11:49 am : link
consideration. Way too raw, not even sure he's got enough skills for 4-3 DE, he might be better suited to 3-4 DE.
Re: Armstead  
Coach Mason : 2/27/2015 11:55 am : link
Would tend to agree but don't know what Giants may see in this kid. JPP was considered very raw by many too yet we still saw enough projectability to make the pick.

His skillset is quite unique and though production wasn't there he does flash that dominant ability enough that you know it will likely be repeatable with more refinement.
JPP was universally projected a top 15 pick  
JonC : 2/27/2015 11:58 am : link
I've not seen the same regard for AA. Perhaps #40 is a different endgame.
RE: It will most likely come to  
BlueLou : 2/27/2015 12:00 pm : link
In comment 12155155 JonC said:
Quote:
WR or pass rusher. If all are off the board, it's a crapshoot.
JonC, whom do you think the Giants define as all the pass rushers and pass receivers worthy of the 9th selection? I assume Cooper, White, Williams and Fowler are gone. Among Gregory, Ray, Dupree and Beasley I'm kinda doubting there is any 4-3 DE. Of that group, can any one grow into a 4-3 DE? You wanna spend 9 on a 4-3 project?
Pardon, you already answered.  
BlueLou : 2/27/2015 12:03 pm : link
IMO Dupree is the best bet to grow into a 4-3 DE, but at 9? Parker or Gordon or the best OL on their board, IMO.
RE: JPP was universally projected a top 15 pick  
Coach Mason : 2/27/2015 12:06 pm : link
In comment 12155451 JonC said:
Quote:
I've not seen the same regard for AA. Perhaps #40 is a different endgame.


His name has popped up in the top 15-20 in a couple places. I am personally not a fan with the other options on the board but we know how important investing in DE is in the draft for Gmen. Preston Smith could be a late riser too.
RE: Pardon, you already answered.  
Coach Mason : 2/27/2015 12:10 pm : link
In comment 12155462 BlueLou said:
Quote:
IMO Dupree is the best bet to grow into a 4-3 DE, but at 9? Parker or Gordon or the best OL on their board, IMO.


Gordon may have 'only' ran a 4.5 but when you flip on the tape he is routinely running away from DBs down the field on huge TD runs and is rarely caught from behind.

His lateral agility makes LBs look silly on the second level. His vision,burst and ability to fire through the smallest holes is outstanding.

One of the best Rbs to come out in years IMO.
Lou  
JonC : 2/27/2015 12:14 pm : link
I think Dupree is the most NYG-like pick, and I think he can play 4-3 DE in a rotation. I don't like Fowler for NYG, he's best suited to 3-4 OLB imo. At #9, it seems a reach.

The key is what does NYG want moving forward defensively. Do they want an edge defender who's more mobile, explosive, has more speed? Speed and AA are needed to combat modern spread offenses. If they're moving the paradigm in this direction, then Vic and Ray are options.

I think Parker will slip, and Gordon is only an option if the tier is basically empty at #9. imo.
DE  
stretch234 : 2/27/2015 12:17 pm : link
When you watch Dupree, what does he do so even consider being the no 9 pick outside of fitting the size the Giants generally like. What exactly did Dupree do that is any better than D. Moore. In highlights, Moore looked much better

Fowler is the 1 DE I would grab at 9. He has already played DE at a weight heavier than Dupree is and he is a much better player than Dupree is

Armstead is tall - great. He looked totally underwhelming in 2 games against big boy competition

If Fowler is gone get a DE later,
RE: Lou  
Coach Mason : 2/27/2015 12:19 pm : link
In comment 12155478 JonC said:
Quote:
I think Dupree is the most NYG-like pick, and I think he can play 4-3 DE in a rotation. I don't like Fowler for NYG, he's best suited to 3-4 OLB imo. At #9, it seems a reach.

The key is what does NYG want moving forward defensively. Do they want an edge defender who's more mobile, explosive, has more speed? Speed and AA are needed to combat modern spread offenses. If they're moving the paradigm in this direction, then Vic and Ray are options.

I think Parker will slip, and Gordon is only an option if the tier is basically empty at #9. imo.


Well said. TC did make specific mention of Steve learning much since he left specifically referencing his time with the Ravens. That paradigm shift you speak of could come into play at 9. Vic Beasley to me could be one of the best pass rushing weapons available. Could have Von Miller like impact if utilized properly.
stretch  
JonC : 2/27/2015 12:25 pm : link
We're not going to agree on Fowler. He's a Steelers/Ravens 3-4 OLB imv.

I don't love Dupree at #9. His film is very reminiscent of Ziggy Ansah, whom I also liked for NYG. Not at #9.

Also, I didn't like Moore in the draft and still don't think he'll be what his fans believe.
RE: RE: Pardon, you already answered.  
BlueLou : 2/27/2015 12:27 pm : link
In comment 12155474 Coach Mason said:
Quote:
In comment 12155462 BlueLou said:


Quote:


IMO Dupree is the best bet to grow into a 4-3 DE, but at 9? Parker or Gordon or the best OL on their board, IMO.



Gordon may have 'only' ran a 4.5 but when you flip on the tape he is routinely running away from DBs down the field on huge TD runs and is rarely caught from behind.

His lateral agility makes LBs look silly on the second level. His vision,burst and ability to fire through the smallest holes is outstanding.

One of the best Rbs to come out in years IMO.
You don't need to convince me about Gordon, coach. We are a minority, but a few of us here are convinced Gordon is worthy of 9 overall.
JonC-  
drkenneth : 2/27/2015 12:29 pm : link
Are any of the OL in play at #9?
drk  
JonC : 2/27/2015 12:39 pm : link
I haven't heard anything yet, but I'd wager Scherff will be on the tier.

I thought Peat would be as well, but Colin had been hearing otherwise leading up to the Combines, so we'll have to wait it out on him.

Other than those two, I don't think OL will be in play at #9. I know Collins has many fans on BBI, but I don't believe NYG will view him as a significant upgrade over Pugh.


JohnC  
stretch234 : 2/27/2015 12:41 pm : link
I look at it this way - Fowler has already played better football than both Dupree and Moore, and he did it playing DE at almost 280lbs.

He has the ability and has played with the weight to do so. That fact that he played at that weight, to me, does not make him a 'tweener' I think teams see a guy who can get back to that weight or stay where he is.

I think he provides options and that is why I do not expect him to be there at 9 anyway
It's about best fit, imv  
JonC : 2/27/2015 12:44 pm : link
His best fit isn't 4-3 DE imv, I'd prefer a better fit especially that high in the draft.
Armstead would  
area junc : 2/27/2015 12:46 pm : link
be a DT in a 43. Similar to chris canty
Don't Sleep on Vic Beasley  
geelabee : 2/27/2015 2:07 pm : link
Think he is clearly on tape one of the 2-3 best defensive players on tape in this year's draft...and was a college defensive player of the year candidate with huge production....the concern with Beasley is he is his size and that he is too small for DE...the combine proves he might be too small for DE..but he came in at 246 ran a phenomenal 4.53 and demonstrated that he has the movement skills to be an LB...and was outstanding in drills showing tremendous movement skills...the tape looks amongst the best available defensive players the combine looked even better...picking Beasley to me looks almost like a sure thing...almost like Aaron Donald last year...hope if he is available @9 Reece gives Beasley serious consideration
Vic Beasley Put on a Show at the Combine - ( New Window )
RE: Armstead would  
Coach Mason : 2/27/2015 2:11 pm : link
In comment 12155572 area junc said:
Quote:
be a DT in a 43. Similar to chris canty


DT primarily with rotation in at DE on some run downs and short yardage situations.
RE: Could the 2nd best player drop to #9?  
geelabee : 2/27/2015 2:11 pm : link
In comment 12155089 JohnB said:
Quote:
The best player in the 2014 draft dropped to #12.

The second best player dropped to #16.

The answer is "of course the 2nd best player might drop to #9."


And the 2nd or 3rd Best Player Defensive Rookie of the year Aaron Donald dropped to #13
RE: Don't Sleep on Vic Beasley  
Coach Mason : 2/27/2015 2:16 pm : link
In comment 12155778 geelabee said:
Quote:
Think he is clearly on tape one of the 2-3 best defensive players on tape in this year's draft...and was a college defensive player of the year candidate with huge production....the concern with Beasley is he is his size and that he is too small for DE...the combine proves he might be too small for DE..but he came in at 246 ran a phenomenal 4.53 and demonstrated that he has the movement skills to be an LB...and was outstanding in drills showing tremendous movement skills...the tape looks amongst the best available defensive players the combine looked even better...picking Beasley to me looks almost like a sure thing...almost like Aaron Donald last year...hope if he is available @9 Reece gives Beasley serious consideration Vic Beasley Put on a Show at the Combine - ( New Window )


Beasley is beastly. But may only fit here in a similiar role they envisioned for Sintim (DE/LB). He's too light to play exclusively with his hand in the dirt. Giants would have to believe he can be productive as a LB too i.e a modicum of coverage ability , ability to play in space, as well as read the flow of the play from second level and attack the right gap etc.

I am impressed with his fluidity,hips and c.o.d ability a whole lot more than I was Sintim and think he could potentially do it.
RE: RE: Don't Sleep on Vic Beasley  
geelabee : 2/27/2015 2:35 pm : link
In comment 12155812 Coach Mason said:
Quote:
In comment 12155778 geelabee said:


Quote:


Think he is clearly on tape one of the 2-3 best defensive players on tape in this year's draft...and was a college defensive player of the year candidate with huge production....the concern with Beasley is he is his size and that he is too small for DE...the combine proves he might be too small for DE..but he came in at 246 ran a phenomenal 4.53 and demonstrated that he has the movement skills to be an LB...and was outstanding in drills showing tremendous movement skills...the tape looks amongst the best available defensive players the combine looked even better...picking Beasley to me looks almost like a sure thing...almost like Aaron Donald last year...hope if he is available @9 Reece gives Beasley serious consideration Vic Beasley Put on a Show at the Combine - ( New Window )



Beasley is beastly. But may only fit here in a similiar role they envisioned for Sintim (DE/LB). He's too light to play exclusively with his hand in the dirt. Giants would have to believe he can be productive as a LB too i.e a modicum of coverage ability , ability to play in space, as well as read the flow of the play from second level and attack the right gap etc.

I am impressed with his fluidity,hips and c.o.d ability a whole lot more than I was Sintim and think he could potentially do it.


I totally agree with you if he shows the kind of lucidity in his private workouts to be what the Giants envisioned with OL/DE Sintum he should be the pick...Beasley is this year's Aaron Donald...the production is off the charts...and we are looking at an extremely fast player(running a 4.53 forty) that pound 4 pound might be amongst the strongest players in this year's draft...Beasley matched Donald's 35 bench press reps and is 40lbs lighter!!!
RE: RE: RE: Don't Sleep on Vic Beasley  
geelabee : 2/27/2015 2:36 pm : link
In comment 12155852 geelabee said:
Quote:
In comment 12155812 Coach Mason said:


Quote:


In comment 12155778 geelabee said:

Fluidity not lucidity....sorry iPad autocorrect
Quote:


Think he is clearly on tape one of the 2-3 best defensive players on tape in this year's draft...and was a college defensive player of the year candidate with huge production....the concern with Beasley is he is his size and that he is too small for DE...the combine proves he might be too small for DE..but he came in at 246 ran a phenomenal 4.53 and demonstrated that he has the movement skills to be an LB...and was outstanding in drills showing tremendous movement skills...the tape looks amongst the best available defensive players the combine looked even better...picking Beasley to me looks almost like a sure thing...almost like Aaron Donald last year...hope if he is available @9 Reece gives Beasley serious consideration Vic Beasley Put on a Show at the Combine - ( New Window )



Beasley is beastly. But may only fit here in a similiar role they envisioned for Sintim (DE/LB). He's too light to play exclusively with his hand in the dirt. Giants would have to believe he can be productive as a LB too i.e a modicum of coverage ability , ability to play in space, as well as read the flow of the play from second level and attack the right gap etc.

I am impressed with his fluidity,hips and c.o.d ability a whole lot more than I was Sintim and think he could potentially do it.



I totally agree with you if he shows the kind of lucidity in his private workouts to be what the Giants envisioned with OL/DE Sintum he should be the pick...Beasley is this year's Aaron Donald...the production is off the charts...and we are looking at an extremely fast player(running a 4.53 forty) that pound 4 pound might be amongst the strongest players in this year's draft...Beasley matched Donald's 35 bench press reps and is 40lbs lighter!!!
My short list @ 9 right now is  
Coach Mason : 2/27/2015 2:42 pm : link
the 3 WR amigos (Parker,Cooper,White), Melvin Gordon, Peat and Beasley.

Armstead has the size and potential Giants drool over but I don't want him and his triangle numbers weren't nearly as good as JJ Watt or JPP (hoping the Giants don't take the risk).
Seen 2 games of Beasley, and IMO he won't fit a 4-3 at all.  
BlueLou : 2/27/2015 3:23 pm : link
He gets eaten alive by NFL sized OTs... If you're hot for a great combine guy, take Dupree. Pray Beasley goes top 8...
RE: Seen 2 games of Beasley, and IMO he won't fit a 4-3 at all.  
geelabee : 2/27/2015 4:44 pm : link
In comment 12155935 BlueLou said:
Quote:
He gets eaten alive by NFL sized OTs... If you're hot for a great combine guy, take Dupree. Pray Beasley goes top 8...


Bluelou I am hot for Beasley because of the tape...it looks like Donald's tape last year...the best tape of any defensive player in this year's draft...just like Donald last year...the kid can flat out play...runs a 4.53...strongest defensive player lb for lb in this draft...and the combine proves he is fluid and plays in space...I see Beasley as a 250lb Von Miller type stud LB
My short list right now  
Milton : 2/27/2015 4:57 pm : link
Scherff, La'el Collins, Gregory, Fowler, and Waynes (in no particular order) or Maxx Williims in a trade down.
p.s.-- There are a bunch of wide receivers in my short lists for the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rounds.
I'd prefer a defensive skewed draft if the value lines up  
Torrag : 2/27/2015 5:37 pm : link
So an edge defender would be ideal. The Fowler/Ray/Beasley trio are intriguing. Interesting to note I have more confidence in this approach following Spags return. I'd be worried if PF was in charge of utilizing these prospects talents.

DT is also in play but I'm not a Shelton guy and don't see value for #9.

If that doesn't materialize I'd look to O-Line as the next priority. There are a number of possibilities it simply depends on how the Giants rate them. To me Scherff is the only legit Top 10 prospect.

WR would be the final position of note for us picking #9. I expect Cooper and White to be major threats. I have both as high floor-high ceiling types.

This analysis will be effected by our ability to make inroads toward addressing our roster deficiencies in Free Agency.
We need front 7 talent  
Rjanyg : 2/27/2015 6:00 pm : link
If Reese thinks Beasley can be a Von Miller style Joker, I'm all for it. Otherwise go WR in round 1 and comeback and get some defensive help in round 2.
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