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NFT: ISIS: 'Jihadi John': The bourgeois terrorist

RC02XX : 2/27/2015 8:53 am
The latest news on the ISIS front has been the identification of "Jihad John," the British accented ISIS fighter seen in numerous beheading videos to include those of Foley and Sotloff.

News of Identification
Quote:
(CNN)His voice became hauntingly familiar as the masked man with a British accent who appeared repeatedly in brutal beheading videos from ISIS.

But the identity of "Jihadi John" remained a mystery -- until Thursday, when two U.S. officials and two U.S. congressional sources confirmed it.

The man, the officials said, is Mohammed Emwazi, a Kuwaiti-born Londoner.

The officials, who've been briefed on the matter, spoke to CNN after a Washington Post report first revealed Emwazi's identity.

Emwazi is believed to have traveled to Syria in 2012, according to the newspaper, and later to have joined ISIS there.

Even with a name and face for the man behind the mask, uncertainty still swirled Thursday. London police and British officials declined to confirm his identity. Officials from a London-based human rights and Muslim advocacy organization who've interacted with Emwazi said they couldn't be 100% certain it was him.


In looking at the background of the individual identified as Jihad John, our previous discussion regarding what kind of backgrounds lead individuals to being radicalized is raised again. As far as Jihad John goes, he doesn't fall into the narrative laid out by the State Department.

'Jihadi John': The bourgeois terrorist
Quote:
(CNN)This is how top national security reporters Souad Mekhennet and Adam Goldman of the Washington Post, who broke the story that Mohammed Emwazi has been identified as the notorious ISIS terrorist known as "Jihadi John," describe him: "a Briton from a well-to-do family who grew up in West London and graduated from college with a degree in computer programming."

They go on to say that Emwazi "was raised in a middle-class neighborhood in London" and attended the University of Westminster, which is a university in London that was founded in the early 19th century.

Emwazi poses something of a problem for the Obama administration's narrative about who becomes a terrorist and why. Last week, the administration hosted a three-day conference on "Countering Violent Extremism," which is a government euphemism for how best to deal with Islamist terrorism.

We heard from Obama administration officials and even the President himself that terrorism has something to do with lack of opportunities and poverty. Obama said that "we have to address grievances terrorists exploit, including economic grievances."
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I see the  
Mike fr Warwick : 2/27/2015 11:52 am : link
anomosity between left and right in an affluent country with access to all the information boardering on hate here in America. It's not so difficult imagine those who perceive themselves and theirs as victims experiencing much stronger emotions.
#jobsforjihadis  
Bake54 : 2/27/2015 11:56 am : link
RE: She's a bubblehead  
batman11 : 2/27/2015 12:08 pm : link
In comment 12155420 Bill L said:
Quote:
but I think that Jen Psaki is a thousand times worse. Ill-informed, mendacious, and vapid while at the same time being incredibly condescending. A curious blend. And when you consider the ultimate spin-meisters or outright prevaricators that are Josh Earnest and Jay Carney, IMO this President has either been poor served or is a poor judge of communications people.


Psaki was just promoted to become WH Communications Director effective 04/01/2015! April Fools Day is an appropriate start date for her.
Ugh...Bake54...  
RC02XX : 2/27/2015 12:20 pm : link
I know I give you shit for being a dumbass when it comes to topics like this, but it really makes it difficult to rethink my position when your two post have been nothing beyond juvenile partisan bullshit. Good to know that my impression of you stands pat.

Go post your idiocy elsewhere and let the adults have an actual discussion.
good  
Nitro : 2/27/2015 12:21 pm : link
read:


Why did Mohammed Emwazi become Jihadi John? - ( New Window )
"Privileged Children Of Millionaires Square Off On World Stage"  
wigs in nyc : 2/27/2015 12:23 pm : link
This is old, but about sums it up.
The Onion: Privileged Children Of Millionaires Square Off On World Stage - ( New Window )
.  
BlueHurricane : 2/27/2015 12:28 pm : link
Geographic estimate of where the ISIS jihadists are coming from  
SwirlingEddie : 2/27/2015 12:34 pm : link
Note only a couple hundred are believed to have come from the US.

Doesn't speak to motivations per se, but may be useful for understanding context.
Infographic link - ( New Window )
RE: She's a bubblehead  
buford : 2/27/2015 12:41 pm : link
In comment 12155420 Bill L said:
Quote:
but I think that Jen Psaki is a thousand times worse. Ill-informed, mendacious, and vapid while at the same time being incredibly condescending. A curious blend. And when you consider the ultimate spin-meisters or outright prevaricators that are Josh Earnest and Jay Carney, IMO this President has either been poor served or is a poor judge of communications people.


He picks people based on loyalty to him and the cause. Carney was snarky, but Earnest? It is painful to listen to him. It would be high comedy if it wasn't so fucking serious.
RE: good  
RC02XX : 2/27/2015 12:44 pm : link
In comment 12155499 Nitro said:
Quote:
read:
Why did Mohammed Emwazi become Jihadi John? - ( New Window )


Interesting take tying the cultural difficulties felt by some individuals originating from Yemen and its tribal ways. I am not sure that it is as simple as this (who will really know at this point), but it sure is better than the poverty explanation.
Thanks  
Mike fr Warwick : 2/27/2015 12:48 pm : link
for the articles. Found them interesting. Something to think about.
interesting, but I agree that it's a bit too facile  
Greg from LI : 2/27/2015 12:48 pm : link
.
RE: RE: She's a bubblehead  
Bill L : 2/27/2015 12:50 pm : link
In comment 12155558 buford said:
Quote:
In comment 12155420 Bill L said:


Quote:


but I think that Jen Psaki is a thousand times worse. Ill-informed, mendacious, and vapid while at the same time being incredibly condescending. A curious blend. And when you consider the ultimate spin-meisters or outright prevaricators that are Josh Earnest and Jay Carney, IMO this President has either been poor served or is a poor judge of communications people.



He picks people based on loyalty to him and the cause. Carney was snarky, but Earnest? It is painful to listen to him. It would be high comedy if it wasn't so fucking serious.


Again, I point to Sharyl Atkisson's book as being an interesting look at things. She talks about Earnest and he was just a guy at that time with Carney being the spokesman as putting extreme amounts of pressure on news producers and editors to kill or re-shape their stories to the administration's liking. He sounds like a more powerful pusher behind the scenes as opposed to his mouthpiece job now.
It varies a lot by groups and by individuals...  
Dunedin81 : 2/27/2015 12:55 pm : link
there is that rejection of materialism and luxury and the question for the exotic or the primal or what have you from wealthy, Westernized Muslims. There are the mostly local rank and file who do the grunt work, and their motivations may be financial and economic, they may involve allegiance to a tribal leader, etc etc. In Pakistan, for instance, the average Taliban fighter heading to Afghanistan was probably not going to be wealthy enough to get married (in a polygamous society that's actually a pretty substantial financial burden). For Sunni fighters on both sides of the Iraq/Syria border many of those same considerations apply. Fighting, while quite dangerous, is a way to improve social status and get enough money to be something other than a peon at home. And books have been written about the radicalization of the affluent in Muslim countries, particularly in the Gulf. A very simplified, universalist bent of radical Islam is the glue that binds this all together and its importance shouldn't be understated, but the appeal of this has a good deal to do with economic and social factors.
ok Ronnie  
Bake54 : 2/27/2015 12:59 pm : link
I apologize for making light of Jen Psaki and Marie Harf . They obviously are the serious thinkers in this administration. Using satire to shine light on their comments is inappropriate. Sorry it offends your intellect.
Does ISIS really pay all that well?  
Bill L : 2/27/2015 1:01 pm : link
Salary, I mean. Their health and retirement plans might also make it appealing.
They have assets in the billions...  
Dunedin81 : 2/27/2015 1:07 pm : link
thanks to plundering Mosul's banks and also some wealthy backers. They probably don't have a 401K but when you're talking people who are living slightly above subsistence level it wouldn't take much to be an improvement.
RE: ok Ronnie  
RC02XX : 2/27/2015 1:19 pm : link
In comment 12155611 Bake54 said:
Quote:
I apologize for making light of Jen Psaki and Marie Harf . They obviously are the serious thinkers in this administration. Using satire to shine light on their comments is inappropriate. Sorry it offends your intellect.


No, Bake...you offended the collective intellect of those in actual discussion here. If you want to be taken seriously for your own interest on the topic along with your critical thinking skills, don't act like a jackass with little more than some partisan information as your sole contribution. As a grown adult, you act like a petulant teenager whenever you come into these discussions. Best advice anyone can give you is...if you don't have anying of substance to contribute, keep your mouth shut and learn. Grow up.
RE: Does ISIS really pay all that well?  
RC02XX : 2/27/2015 1:21 pm : link
In comment 12155613 Bill L said:
Quote:
Salary, I mean. Their health and retirement plans might also make it appealing.


I'm sure the appeal of oppressing others to elevate your own lot in life is attractive to many dregs of society. And you even get to kill people with impunity...so what's not to like for these guys?
Plus you're killing the right people  
Greg from LI : 2/27/2015 1:22 pm : link
Killing infidels and apostates isn't really murder, so you don't even have to feel badly about it.
RE: Plus you're killing the right people  
RC02XX : 2/27/2015 1:28 pm : link
In comment 12155678 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Killing infidels and apostates isn't really murder, so you don't even have to feel badly about it.


Better yet, one step further in being able to celebrate with your fellow Islamic Caliphates on the job well done on your part...I don't think you can undersell this draw for these dregs. Being around those of similar passion (or psychopathy) is pretty enticing.
Poor Ronnie  
Bake54 : 2/27/2015 2:27 pm : link
It must be galling to a superior life form such as yourself to see satire on a subject like this. Deep breaths Ronnie.

I simply borrowed this from people who take this subject more seriously than you to demonstrate how absurd our State Dept spokespeople are on this topic. You know highlighting absurdity with absurdity.

But you have no sense of humor. I am so sorry for that.
no matter what road you take...  
nyblue56 : 2/27/2015 2:31 pm : link
It always comes down to a religion that gives its followers a political, social, and religeous ideology that they must follow. This ideology emphasizes the best Muslims were Muhammed and his companions and there examples are to be followed, it emphasizes the only guarantee to paradise and god's love is Jihad, it emphasizes the global expansion and domination of Islam. Its the Glue that binds all the issues (Lack of education, poverty, lack of jobs) together that produces these madmen, whether they are from rich or poor families or opposing tribes.
RE: Poor Ronnie  
RC02XX : 2/27/2015 2:41 pm : link
In comment 12155835 Bake54 said:
Quote:
It must be galling to a superior life form such as yourself to see satire on a subject like this. Deep breaths Ronnie.

I simply borrowed this from people who take this subject more seriously than you to demonstrate how absurd our State Dept spokespeople are on this topic. You know highlighting absurdity with absurdity.

But you have no sense of humor. I am so sorry for that.


No...I have sense of humor from those, who have proven to actually have anything of substance to add to this topic such as Nitro, Greg, Duned, etc. I have seen your contribution, which amounts to that of someone getting all of his information from FoxNews or MSNBC. So spare me your "I was just using humor" BS since that is about as deep as you get with these topics. As I've said, move along and let the adults have a decent discussion. Go post about how the Kardashians and their fortune make you so unhappy since that's the level of your discourse.
Ok Ronnie I understand  
Bake54 : 2/27/2015 2:59 pm : link
I will elevate myself to your status and beg for your positive affirmation because you deem me unworthy, I can only hope the next time you troll me it's on a subject you find appropriate. Not those other subjects like pop culture or higher education. I will confine myself to being more serious else I suffer the wrath of the most important thing..your perception of me.

You just know it's going to ruin my entire weekend, young man.
Interesting potential development on ISIS financial situation  
RC02XX : 2/27/2015 4:10 pm : link
Quote:
Fines, sell-offs and subsidy cuts: Life under cash-squeezed ISIS

Once smokers were flogged in Syrian territory ruled by the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, now they are fined about $65. Local rulers dismantle old state facilities to sell for parts. And shopkeepers complain Isis fighters no longer spend so freely.


The world's richest jihadi group is not as flush as it once was, say Syrians who live under its rule. It has cut spending on fuel and bread subsidies, while increasingly shaking down locals for cash. Fighters themselves may be feeling the squeeze, too.

"Isis took some kind of financial hit . . . Some fighters' salaries were cut, including my nephew," said a man in the eastern city of Mayadeen, who says an apparent drop in the group's revenues is making it difficult to cover the cost of its expansion in territory and membership since its lightning offensive last year.

Claims of belt-tightening are hard to confirm. Structurally, Isis is a secretive organisation, particularly with its finances. According to the US state department, it has $500m in liquid cash assets. But the group does seem to be restricting spending, potentially making it difficult to function like the caliphate it claims to be building.


So far this is unlikely to affect its capabilities as a militant organisation. According to the Financial Action Task Force, an intergovernmental body, it costs up to $10m a month to fund its fighters.

"It's harder for them to maintain the fiction of running a state in the eyes of local [people]," said a senior western diplomat who attended recent meetings of the anti-Isis coalition. "But if you are a member of the organisation itself, or a fighting group affiliated with it, then the money is still available."

Yet some of Isis's most profitable and straightforward sources of income are drying up.


Link - ( New Window )
Well- if you can cripple the funding  
mrvax : 2/27/2015 4:24 pm : link
you can certainly stop those who serve for money and cut down on the amount of contraband the evil bastids get there blood soaked hands on. It won't stop the wealthy leaders though.

I'd expect more ransom attacks in the near future. They may also have a very large bombing where it sets an example so that they may blackmail governments into paying them off to not blow shit up.

The US has to have some cash offers get out there to the terrorists at higher levels to entice them to turn coat. Paying them and their families, granting asylum, etc. may be how to crack into their organization. Cash talks. Always has.
IDK...  
Dunedin81 : 2/27/2015 4:42 pm : link
I'm not sure they're cohesive enough to "brand" themselves. Ransom hasn't been particularly successful, only a small percentage of it seems to have been paid (I could be mistaken). And while they could appeal to wealthy donors from the Gulf, they're perhaps a little crazy even for the most fundamentalist of princelings. I don't think they can effectively dial it down because whether they have a caliph or not they're not closely controlled from the center. A good bit of their "reach" in Iraq involved cutting deals with local tribal leaders.
As Bill Murray would say:  
baadbill : 2/27/2015 4:58 pm : link
"Jane, you ignorant (Jihadi) slut."

Who gives a rats ass about these ignorant pieces of shit.

Until Islam starts identifying radical Mosques and radical Imams and starts protesting them and demanding their ouster and closure - Until then, in my book, they are all as guilty as Germans were during the rise and rule of Hitler.
I think one of the draw for ISIS as a viable alternative to AQ  
RC02XX : 2/27/2015 4:58 pm : link
and its other affiliates is its "craziness" factor. For ISIS to water that down by trying to win over any donors (even some of the more diehard donors are scared to be openly associated with ISIS) would go against what they have tried to establish to the world (both Western and Muslim).

It really requires an independent source of revenue such as oil and theft (if they're smart, they would sell the ancient artifacts instead of destroying them as some reports are stating) since I doubt that ransoms from kidnappings are all that lucrative (relatively speaking).

At certain point, ISIS will have to change its operational procedure or purge its cannon fodders that it may not be able to pay if they are indeed losing funding. How will this impact their way forward?
RE: As Bill Murray would say:  
RC02XX : 2/27/2015 5:01 pm : link
In comment 12156096 baadbill said:
Quote:
"Jane, you ignorant (Jihadi) slut."

Who gives a rats ass about these ignorant pieces of shit.

Until Islam starts identifying radical Mosques and radical Imams and starts protesting them and demanding their ouster and closure - Until then, in my book, they are all as guilty as Germans were during the rise and rule of Hitler.


Ah...nothing like the condemnation of over a billion people and their faith. Definitely simplifying this one to the extreme.
RE: RE: As Bill Murray would say:  
baadbill : 2/27/2015 5:07 pm : link
In comment 12156101 RC02XX said:
Quote:
In comment 12156096 baadbill said:


Quote:


"Jane, you ignorant (Jihadi) slut."

Who gives a rats ass about these ignorant pieces of shit.

Until Islam starts identifying radical Mosques and radical Imams and starts protesting them and demanding their ouster and closure - Until then, in my book, they are all as guilty as Germans were during the rise and rule of Hitler.



Ah...nothing like the condemnation of over a billion people and their faith. Definitely simplifying this one to the extreme.


Yup. Condemn Hitler and the Germans who enabled him too. Don't see much difference.
RE: RE: RE: As Bill Murray would say:  
RC02XX : 2/27/2015 5:15 pm : link
In comment 12156106 baadbill said:
Quote:
Yup. Condemn Hitler and the Germans who enabled him too. Don't see much difference.


But isn't that still a bit too much of an oversimplification? And by condemning Islam, are you going to condemn all who practice the faith? Not really sure what your definition of "enable" is since not all German's actively enabled Hitler. Many lived in fear for themselves as well.
RE: RE: RE: RE: As Bill Murray would say:  
baadbill : 2/27/2015 5:20 pm : link
In comment 12156119 RC02XX said:
Quote:
In comment 12156106 baadbill said:


Quote:


Yup. Condemn Hitler and the Germans who enabled him too. Don't see much difference.



But isn't that still a bit too much of an oversimplification? And by condemning Islam, are you going to condemn all who practice the faith? Not really sure what your definition of "enable" is since not all German's actively enabled Hitler. Many lived in fear for themselves as well.


Of course some did. But the majority did not. Hitler could only accomplish what he did because Germans enabled him. Likewise with Islamic extremism. Look, put me in a one-on-one conversation with a Muslim and I'm sure I am going to like him or her. See a Muslim in trouble, and I'm going to do what I can to help or save him/her. But ask me if I think, as a group, they are responsible for the violence being committed in the name of their faith? Damn fucking straight I am. No different than the Germans without whose support (or failure to protest) allowed Hitler to do what he did. There is literally no difference.
Guy wears a Pittsburgh Pirates hat  
buford : 2/27/2015 7:03 pm : link
loser.
The Pirates felt the need to issue a statement about that  
Greg from LI : 2/27/2015 7:06 pm : link
Which was really odd.
As Bill Murray would say:  
mrvax : 2/27/2015 7:52 pm : link
In comment 12156131 baadbill said:
Quote:
No different than the Germans without whose support (or failure to protest) allowed Hitler to do what he did. There is literally no difference.


I sort of agree. By not denouncing this as an act against their faith, they are putting up with it at minimum. We need to hear from Muslim leaders condemning these acts of evil all across the Muslim world.

The terrorists are not going to give a damn when non-Muslims denounce them.

If I were the POTUS, I'd speak to many leaders of large US based mosques and ask them what they plan to do about this perversion of Islam.
I have pointed out quite a few times...  
Dunedin81 : 2/27/2015 8:54 pm : link
that this President stubbornly and stupidly refuses to link Islam and extremism and presumptuously tries to write people out of a faith to which he doesn't belong. But this notion that every Muslim everywhere has to condemn fundamentalism just doesn't hold water. There is no Muslim pope. The only one who purports to be universal, ironically, is al-Baghdadi. Plenty of Muslim religious and political leaders have condemned ISIS and the wider radical Islamic movement. Are there some who play a bit of a double game, or condemn the West and Israel in the same breath that they condemn ISIS? Sure. But for the most part what people claim they want to see and hear is happening.
Meh...  
RC02XX : 2/27/2015 8:54 pm : link
We've been over this already. It's a weak argument and reason to condemn in a wholesale method.
RE: Meh...  
mrvax : 2/27/2015 9:01 pm : link
In comment 12156365 RC02XX said:
Quote:
We've been over this already. It's a weak argument and reason to condemn in a wholesale method.


Well it should be covered in the media so people are aware of it.
RE: RE: Meh...  
RC02XX : 2/27/2015 9:06 pm : link
In comment 12156384 mrvax said:
Quote:
In comment 12156365 RC02XX said:


Quote:


We've been over this already. It's a weak argument and reason to condemn in a wholesale method.



Well it should be covered in the media so people are aware of it.


So they can satisfy you and others wanting to see such a thing? As duned already stated, it happens already. Maybe the media should be condemn instead of the faith or the people who practice the faith.
RE: RE: RE: Meh...  
mrvax : 2/27/2015 9:20 pm : link
In comment 12156393 RC02XX said:
Quote:

So they can satisfy you and others wanting to see such a thing? As duned already stated, it happens already. Maybe the media should be condemn instead of the faith or the people who practice the faith.


Maybe. I don't feel comfy at all painting a faith with a broad brush and don't like hearing it from other people either. They have to get their message out there. Eventually we could see a rise in hate crime toward Muslims. That would suck.
The most important correction to be made here is that  
SwirlingEddie : 2/27/2015 9:23 pm : link
it was Dan Ackroyd who called Jane an ignorant slut.

Carry on.
RE: RE: One affluent Brit disproves that poverty and lack of oppurtnity  
to_pass_time : 2/28/2015 3:38 pm : link
In comment 12155399 averagejoe said:
Quote:
In comment 12155207 Ben in Tampa said:


Quote:


Are factors in the radicalization of Muslims?



The list is long including all the 9/11 bombers.But you probably know that already.


There are lots of reaons people get radicalized. The most common one is to fight a poltical cause. In this case it is a reaction to 6 decades of the US supporting horrible monsters in the region that brutalize people, impoverish them and eventually lead those to radicalize.
What do you figure the over and under  
HomerJones45 : 2/28/2015 4:07 pm : link
as to when he eats a Hellfire missle? Now that he's been identified, he's as good as dead.
RE: RE: RE: One affluent Brit disproves that poverty and lack of oppurtnity  
Dunedin81 : 2/28/2015 6:13 pm : link
In comment 12157091 to_pass_time said:
Quote:
In comment 12155399 averagejoe said:


Quote:


In comment 12155207 Ben in Tampa said:


Quote:


Are factors in the radicalization of Muslims?



The list is long including all the 9/11 bombers.But you probably know that already.



There are lots of reaons people get radicalized. The most common one is to fight a poltical cause. In this case it is a reaction to 6 decades of the US supporting horrible monsters in the region that brutalize people, impoverish them and eventually lead those to radicalize.


Ah the moral certainty of blaming your own country for all the sins of the world. Sophomore sociology major?
RE: The most important correction to be made here is that  
baadbill : 2/28/2015 6:21 pm : link
In comment 12156424 SwirlingEddie said:
Quote:
it was Dan Ackroyd who called Jane an ignorant slut.

Carry on.


I originally typed John Belushi but knew that was wrong and thought I saw Bill Murray in my minds' eye sitting in the newsroom anchor seat saying that to Jane Curtin. But, you're right - it was Ackroyd. Damn.
And it's always been those with little to no skin in the fight  
RC02XX : 2/28/2015 7:21 pm : link
Sitting in their ivory towers, who resort to blaming their country for the evils of the world whenever they get an opportunity to do so.
Over 1,000 Muslims Formed 'Ring of Peace' Around Oslo Synagogue  
JohnF : 2/28/2015 8:27 pm : link
From the link

Quote:
Over the weekend, more than 1,000 Muslims gathered to form a ring of peace around a synagogue in Oslo, Norway. They both offered a human shield -- in the best sense of the term -- protecting one of the most visibly Jewish locations in their city and condemned the murder last week of Dan Uzan, a Danish Jew, at a Copenhagen synagogue...

They chanted, "No to anti-Semitism! No to Islamophobia!" Zeeshan Abdullah, who helped organize the event, told the Muslims and Jews gathered together outside the synagogue:

Humanity is one and we are here to demonstrate that. There are many more peace mongers than warmongers. There's still hope for humanity, for peace and love, across religious differences and backgrounds.


A highlght video is in the link below:

Ali Chishti once blamed Jews for 9/11. He spent Saturday guarding an Oslo synagogue.

Stuff like this happens. Doesn't get front page, or top of the headlines. Humanity is pretty good at painting a group with one brush, but it's almost never true.
It was a nice story...  
Dunedin81 : 2/28/2015 8:33 pm : link
it did get a fair amount of press, and deservedly so.
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