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Now that the dust has really settled...Beckham

Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/27/2015 11:20 pm
Holy crap!

I don't think most of us really fully comprehend what he did without training camp and preseason and the first four games.

What's the ceiling? Will there be a sophomore jinx? Can he really get much better?
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very true  
odunde : 2/27/2015 11:57 pm : link
this is not a callout comment, but i remember eric and others saying that, without camp and practices, his rookie season was likely a wash. I assumed this was true. This should have been true. For most players this would have been true. Beckham is really special.
He's the best rookie WR  
mrvax : 2/28/2015 12:02 am : link
I've ever seen.
Never seen anything like it  
BurlyMan : 2/28/2015 12:35 am : link
but don't want to discount how special Cruz can be. If he can get off the line like he used to we'll really have something.
And I don't want to underplay how elements of his personality  
wigs in nyc : 2/28/2015 12:41 am : link
play into his on the field success, but the 'two torn hamstrings' comments, drama, playing it up for the cameras and narrative doesn't slip by unnoticed.
I think fans need to  
B in ALB : 2/28/2015 12:44 am : link
Temper their expectations a bit. He's now a marked man. No longer a surprise.

That said, he needs a counterpart. Another threat.

That is the big question with regards to the skill personnel.

He's clearly an exceptional talent and it's up to the FO to build an offense.

The rub will always be what to do about the defense.
B  
Big Rick in FL : 2/28/2015 1:05 am : link
Exactly why I want Cooper at 9. He would be a great counterpart to Odell for years to come. Great route runner with very good hands. Can't beat defenses deep and can score a TD from anywhere on the field. They can double Odell, but with Cooper & Cruz we would have 3 guys who can score from anywhere in the field.

Even if we have to wait until Cruz is healthy. Odell & Randle on the outside with Cooper doing work in the slot. Would also be very scary for opposing defenses.

To the poster above - I don't think anybody is knocking Cruz. At least I know I wasn't. Cruz is a very good player, but he has nowhere near the natural talent that Odell does.
The kid is a rock star  
Rjanyg : 2/28/2015 1:09 am : link
Now let's get a defensive stud to balance things out.
I hate to say it but maybe this is  
soda man : 2/28/2015 2:55 am : link
his ceiling. Similar to Shockey and his rookie year? I sure hope the fuck not. As insane as OBJ was, we still need better form out offensive AND defensive line. and remember THE GIANTS LOST TO THE FUCKING JAGUARS!!!! Oh my God that makes me want to rip something in my brain for that. As affected with adrenaline as I was over the OBJ rookie campaign, that loss to the Jaguars pissed me the fuck off to the highest heavens.

His amazing moments were sunken in the sand of a loss to the Jaguars and the great "memories". Remember that amazing catch he had? The ONLY thing I'll remember is after that catch what happens next on the ensuing drive when Dallas has the ball? We got our bitch defense out there getting smacked around and there they fucking go marching down the field like a marching band. Useless.

I'm tired of watching irrelevant games but getting victories and getting back to being relevant again supersedes all of the OBJ rookie stuff in my opinion. He can help, but they need to quit it with the bitch-made players up front that keep getting constantly rag-dolled and pushed into the back field before ELI MANNING HITS HIS SECOND FUCKING STEP. Justin Pugh needs to step up his game, excuse me, "Mrs. Connor Barwin" is what he will be known to me until he fixes his shit!! despicable!!! Also, Mr. Reese quit signing other teams TRASH that nobody wants!!! HELLO!!! (JD Walton, John Jerry, Charlie Brown, JOHN FUCKING BEASON) and reevaluate your draft decisions if those guys get chosen over the GARBAGE that you drafted like Brewer, Mosley, and SOON TO BE PUGH! AND ALSO THAT FAT SACK OF SHIT ADRIEN ROBINSON!!! EFFACE YOUR MISTAKES, MR. JR!!!

signed,
a pissed off fan

/rant
Soda Man...  
M.S. : 2/28/2015 5:32 am : link
...I don't typically express myself in the fashion you've taken on this thread, but I believe this essence of what you are saying is 1000% correct.

I've been a broken record on this site for a while now saying the following:

(1) It is fantastic to have such a great receiver in OBJ;

(2) But for all his glory and greatness the Giants were -- all in all -- a bad football team in 2014;

(3) No matter what OBJ does in the future (and it won't be a piece of cake to repeat 2014 -- even in 16 games), this team is going nowhere if it doesn't man-up at the point of attack;

(4) Both sides of the ball;

(5) It is one of many ironies in the NFL that Coach Coughlin is perceived as such a tough coach, but he has the weakest POA football team in the league;

(6) Just the worst... and OBJ ain't gonna fix that and neither will Amari Cooper or Kevin White at #9!
Two things that can help is better protection  
Ira : 2/28/2015 6:08 am : link
and another top receiver to draw defensive attention.
Some single season nfl receiving records are
Total yards - Calvin Johnson - 1964
TD's - Randy Moss - 23
Receptions - Marvin Harrison - 143
Having a healthy Victor Cruz  
NorwoodWideRight : 2/28/2015 6:19 am : link
and Randle continuing to make strides will go a long way toward ensuring Beckham achieves the same production he did last year. As some have said, teams will adjust, there will be normal drops in production, etc.
Teams were game-planning for him  
SanFranNowNCGiantsFan : 2/28/2015 6:26 am : link
& he still dominated. He's an exceptional talent. As long as he stays healthy & keeps his head screwed on right, he's going to be a force in this league.
Just can't see why you guys are obsessed with...  
M.S. : 2/28/2015 6:45 am : link

...OBJ stats in the future and how we can make them go even higher!

That's a real bad game of useless speculation.

It's a teenage boy's fantasy.

But it ain't gonna help this team one f-ing iota.

Just useless.

My biggest concern is teams are going to try and really rough him up  
mfsd : 2/28/2015 6:45 am : link
Bc they know they can't stop him consistently on game plan alone. We already saw it with the Rams under scumbag Jeff fisher

Yes football is a rough sport, and OBJ should be ready...but it's the cheap shots designed solely to take him out that piss me off
No doubt ODB is an incredible player.....  
Dry Lightning : 2/28/2015 7:00 am : link
but there are warning flags for several reasons. People have compared his rookie season with LT's. I compare it more to Jeremy Shockey's. Shockey had an incredible rookie season too, and "turned the football world on it's ear" as I remember Mel Kiper writing. But he also showed bad signs by taunting other players, and getting nicked up. By the end of his tenure here, I hated his guts. He never understood the Giant way, and was an embarrassment. LT was the ultimate force and dominated while being an iron man. Yes, he did have the drug issues, but other than that he was the ultimate team player. I just wonder if maybe we would have been better off without that catch, which made the hype insane. Very hard to judge character from afar. We will see. And for all you BBI geniuses who will disagree with insults, a few years ago I posted the same thing about RG3. Said he was a wack job, and there would be big problems. The usual suspects here went wild..........but look how it turned out.
RE: My biggest concern is teams are going to try and really rough him up  
Steve in South Jersey : 2/28/2015 7:06 am : link
In comment 12156580 mfsd said:
Quote:
Bc they know they can't stop him consistently on game plan alone. We already saw it with the Rams under scumbag Jeff fisher



I agree. Teams are going to try to lay Beckham out this year.

One of the amazing things about LT is how well he played with painful injuries.
Sophomore jinx  
Big Blue '56 : 2/28/2015 7:11 am : link
did not cut into the productivity of Rice and Moss who also became elite from the get-go..Why would it affect OBJ?

Defenses fruitlessly had entire offseason(s) to come up with something, to little or no avail..

He can have an elite type year WITHOUT putting up those incredible type numbers..Part of being Elite is coming up big when you're up against it AND drawing coverage away from others who can make an impact(Cruz, Randle, Donnell) when needed as well..

The dreaded injury is all that can affect him(and us) imo
He was getting double teamed, triple teamed @ times  
SanFranNowNCGiantsFan : 2/28/2015 7:24 am : link
late in the season. And he was still producing. If the opposing DC wants to put all 11 dudes on him, I guess that'll help our other 10 players on offense.
I think the general consensus is  
SanFranNowNCGiantsFan : 2/28/2015 7:26 am : link
He's going to be a force in this league if A) he stays healthy & B) he keeps his head screwed on right. I have no doubt this guy wants to be the absolute best so I'm more concerned with A than B.
I don't remember, maybe some else does  
Headhunter : 2/28/2015 7:58 am : link
a truly great receiver like Randy Moss or Megatron becoming a force in their rookie years, then the league"adjusted" to them and they weren't great anymore? I can't think of a single on( injuries do not count). It has been my experience that if you are great, well you will always be great till Father Time or injuries catch up with you. I would absolutely double down and grab Cooper if available and step on the throats of defenses for years to come
I think expectations are too high for him and he will  
ZogZerg : 2/28/2015 8:04 am : link
"disappoint" almost everyone in 2015. I think he will have a good year, but I don't see anyway he can sustain what he did last year. Defenses will game plan for him and hopefully Cruz will be back to take some of his catches.
RE: Soda Man...  
mrvax : 2/28/2015 8:13 am : link
In comment 12156570 M.S. said:
Quote:

(5) It is one of many ironies in the NFL that Coach Coughlin is perceived as such a tough coach, but he has the weakest POA football team in the league;


This is a crying shame thinking back to his initial speech as head coach.
With the cruz comparison  
mattlawson : 2/28/2015 8:18 am : link
It doesn't help when you have no outside threat - and yet you continue to be all about the deep ball.
I just pray for no injuries  
Moondawg : 2/28/2015 8:19 am : link
I think they're the only thing that will slow him down.
A few thoughts...  
EricJ : 2/28/2015 8:24 am : link
First, yes what he did with no training camp was incredible. He stepped in and started playing like he was a veteran.

Second, when he first came back, his hamstring still was not fully healed yet he was getting the separation needed to get open. THIS is what I was really focusing on. His route running. It is not that he is so much faster than other WRs in the league because he isn't. There are a few guys who are even faster than him. His success really boils down to his routes and his ability to stop/cut on a dime.

This season, it is extremely critical that we improve our running game. Otherwise, Beckham is going to get coverage like he has never seen before. Do not count on a healthy Cruz either. He will not be the same.
Eric. I agree 100 percent with your observation: 'Holy Crap!'  
Marty in Albany : 2/28/2015 8:48 am : link
Everything else posted in this thread is just speculation on the future, which is fine and fun, but impossible to know in advance. It just gives you a warm feeling to think about his prospects for the coming season.

My prediction: Our number 1 draft pick this year, regardless of who we pick, will have almost no chance of having a rookie year like Beckham's, and it won't be his fault. Beckham is that remarkable.
Im very worried  
chopperhatch : 2/28/2015 8:50 am : link
About this guy staying healthy. The way he cuts, moves and explodes off the spot screams injury to me. But I am a pessimist that way. I might be scarred by David Wilson.
RE: Just can't see why you guys are obsessed with...  
chris r : 2/28/2015 8:51 am : link
In comment 12156579 M.S. said:
Quote:

...OBJ stats in the future and how we can make them go even higher!

That's a real bad game of useless speculation.

It's a teenage boy's fantasy.

But it ain't gonna help this team one f-ing iota.

Just useless.


what?
RE: And I don't want to underplay how elements of his personality  
River Mike : 2/28/2015 8:58 am : link
In comment 12156547 wigs in nyc said:
Quote:
play into his on the field success, but the 'two torn hamstrings' comments, drama, playing it up for the cameras and narrative doesn't slip by unnoticed.


Interesting how the original quote, "two hamstring tears" has morphed on BBI into "two torn hamstrings". While it may in fact be two torn hamstrings, the original quote allows for it being two tears in one hamstring. That would likely be a little easier to play on (and more likely to occur) than two torn hamstrings.
I didn't know our role of fans on a website  
Headhunter : 2/28/2015 9:03 am : link
involved helping the team 1 iota. You live, you learn
He will get better...  
DJ5150 : 2/28/2015 9:08 am : link
Hes already the best WR in the NFL IMO....I agree with sodaman, all I think of when I see "The Catch",is the rotten feeling of watching homo disect a pathetic defense and the cowboys winning that game....Reese spent over 100 million on free agents and the team was horrible...Beckham saved Reese and TC.
I just pray he doesn't get hurt.  
Jon in NYC : 2/28/2015 9:23 am : link
Something tells me he's going to have a very injury prone career.
RE: I just pray he doesn't get hurt.  
chopperhatch : 2/28/2015 9:29 am : link
In comment 12156652 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
Something tells me he's going to have a very injury prone career.


I tend to agree Jon. I hope Im wrong tho.
I think his greatest chance  
RetroJint : 2/28/2015 9:36 am : link
to sustain serious injury is when he returns punts. I want him removed from that duty permanently. He tries to make 2 cuts at once. He comes to a complete stop in the middle of the field that is always dangerous (Bavaro, Sehorn).

Teams are already game-planning for him. He can beat secondaries on the deep vertical. This is the real reason why Randle took off the way he did late in the year. If they get Cooper, even more problems, although the defense will continue to work on short rations. And, no, Spagnuolo is not going to be able to perform miracles with the same cast.

However, Beckham is the Giants new LT. I hope they find his complement to play defense.
RE: I just pray he doesn't get hurt.  
SanFranNowNCGiantsFan : 2/28/2015 9:37 am : link
In comment 12156652 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
Something tells me he's going to have a very injury prone career.


How many pinkies do I need to sacrifice to the football gods for him to stay healthy?
One last thing that was not mentioned here yet...  
EricJ : 2/28/2015 9:43 am : link
is that he needs to keep his cool out there. The other teams have identified the fact that he is willing to retaliate whenever someone takes a cheap shot at him. They are now baiting him. He needs to ignore all of that BS and just walk away.
RE: One last thing that was not mentioned here yet...  
Coach Mason : 2/28/2015 9:47 am : link
In comment 12156688 EricJ said:
Quote:
is that he needs to keep his cool out there. The other teams have identified the fact that he is willing to retaliate whenever someone takes a cheap shot at him. They are now baiting him. He needs to ignore all of that BS and just walk away.


True but it's partly because he was an emotional rook who was basically our entire offense for awhile.

Get another wide receiver out there who demands some attention too and it will help him and this team immeasurably.
Not used to great players, eh?  
JohnF : 2/28/2015 9:53 am : link
The kid will be fine. He's not going to be a saint, and not everyone is an Eli. He's going to be himself, and if that's being expressive...well, has that hurt Richard Sherman? If he starts getting penalties, he'll adjust. That's what great players do.

I think he gets better...he really didn't have a full pre-season working with Eli, and they need that for him to reach his full potential. We do need to score more, though..this league is trending more and more to Arena style.

In Arena, you have to score. Defensively, you try and stop the run, and pressure the QB into making mistakes; you're not going to stop offenses as much as throw them off kilter. I see nothing in the rules that will benefit defenses, so that trend will continue. Spags just needs to get this defense close to "average"...we should have a good enough offense (presuming Cruz comes back and we get another weapon on offense) to compete.

We'll get line help in FA, IMO. Once that's done, we'll be ready to go.
It's scary.  
arcarsenal : 2/28/2015 10:14 am : link
What he did was so incredible that he's basically set the bar at an almost unsustainable level

Typically, you'd expect a rookie to improve. But I'm not even sure how much room there is to get better.

I just hope he can stay healthy. That's really the most worrisome part. This is a career that would be completely unfair to have wrecked by injuries because the man is capable of doing things we've never seen before on an NFL field. He already has.
He will be better IMO......  
Simms11 : 2/28/2015 10:36 am : link
he's got the right attitude to work hard and be the best WR in the NFL, just like many other greats before him. Can he be another Jerry Rice? Time will tell, however, he will most certainly be a factor in this Giants offense for many years, barring injury. Even Cruz became a target, but still had a decent year after. IMO, OBJ has better athleticism and should be better suited to deal with double-teams, etc. he runs great, sharp routes, which will help him beat that coverage. Lastly, another weapon on the field will help pull coverage away, as well.
I agree with those who want  
Bake54 : 2/28/2015 11:32 am : link
a counterpart for Beckham in the draft. Cooper or White could add a pick your poison element to this team which would be very exciting.

I'm assuming that Cruz is not going to be Cruz again. If he does return to his old skill level...the Giants' receiving corps would be incredible.
Never been more excited about a player  
Canton : 2/28/2015 11:34 am : link
on this team since Keith Elias.
Beckham will have a tough time duplicating  
BlueLou : 2/28/2015 1:54 pm : link
His rookie year rate of stats because he and Eli took advantage of single coverages he won't see next year.
But he'll still be excellent.

RE: Beckham will have a tough time duplicating  
Mason : 2/28/2015 2:15 pm : link
In comment 12156985 BlueLou said:
Quote:
His rookie year rate of stats because he and Eli took advantage of single coverages he won't see next year.
But he'll still be excellent.


He wasn't singled in the Rams game. Everyone in Edward Jones stadium knew he was a marked man. Randle had a field day against the Rams because they were all focused on Beckham.
RE: RE: And I don't want to underplay how elements of his personality  
mrvax : 2/28/2015 2:41 pm : link
In comment 12156631 River Mike said:
Quote:

Interesting how the original quote, "two hamstring tears" has morphed on BBI into "two torn hamstrings".


IIRC, Beckham was injured, started getting better, then practiced a bit too hard and went out again just before the season started. That may be his "two hamstring tears".
RE: Beckham will have a tough time duplicating  
mrvax : 2/28/2015 2:48 pm : link
In comment 12156985 BlueLou said:
Quote:
His rookie year rate of stats because he and Eli took advantage of single coverages he won't see next year.
But he'll still be excellent.


Lou, after his first few games, his single coverage ended. Teams could easily do this because by then, Cruz was on IR. Beckham is the real deal. Don't see how he could get better on the field.

Fine. If he can keep up his level of play and the Giants put some other respectable receivers on the field, Beckham will always have good numbers.

I don't think Beckham missed college games due to injury. He needs a good trainer. If he does get injured I think the most likely culprit will be a cheap shot. If someone does cheap-shot IR him, I really hope a fan will hunt them down and do the right thing.
RE: RE: Beckham will have a tough time duplicating  
chris r : 2/28/2015 2:55 pm : link
In comment 12157060 mrvax said:
Quote:
In comment 12156985 BlueLou said:


Quote:


His rookie year rate of stats because he and Eli took advantage of single coverages he won't see next year.
But he'll still be excellent.




Lou, after his first few games, his single coverage ended. Teams could easily do this because by then, Cruz was on IR. Beckham is the real deal. Don't see how he could get better on the field.

Fine. If he can keep up his level of play and the Giants put some other respectable receivers on the field, Beckham will always have good numbers.

I don't think Beckham missed college games due to injury. He needs a good trainer. If he does get injured I think the most likely culprit will be a cheap shot. If someone does cheap-shot IR him, I really hope a fan will hunt them down and do the right thing.


Give him a good scolding?
You can double him  
Marine One : 2/28/2015 3:03 pm : link
all you want, the kid has instincts you don't buy at the combine. I knew very little about him prior to a year and a half ago, but when I watched film, I saw a kid with a quick twitch brain that most of us former athletes only dream about. He has incredible feet and hip posturing, he boxes out just before the ball gets there and often gets to the highest point in making the catch. He has a pedigree that understands you are only as good as your last touchdown. Pops roomed with the Shaq and mom ran corners like a trotter. I think she was instrumental in his recovery from the hamstring tear, though I could be wrong. OBJ is an abberation like LT was IMHO, different skill set (Reeesism) but the kind of presence you have to account for.

I think he will get better and change his approach to defenses as they try and game him. Watch some of his Bleacher vids. The probelm for them (defenses) is as he grows in rep, you can often get too cute and make him larger than he really is in the minds of defenders; then you are pwned. Watch how many times this year he left defenders turning one way, while he shifts to another, you cannot teach defending that, I don't give a damn who you are defensively! He watches guys hips, really, like a DB just reversed

OBJ can lull you to sleep in a pattern and then leap in front and grab it like it was halloween candy, then prance by you like you were just getting up in the morning. As a former wideout, I've been waiting for a talent like this to join the G-men for a long time. God willing, he stays healthy and wins #3 with Eli and the gang, #9 in the big picture. I'm all in on this kid!
RE: ^^  
to_pass_time : 2/28/2015 5:11 pm : link
In comment 12156531 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
You don't think the Seahawks game had any importance? Or the Colts game? 49ers? Both Cowboys games? Just because it didn't matter much what we did doesn't mean the games weren't important to the other teams. To say they weren't important to them would be idiotic.


Great point.
Talent to be one of the best.  
Randy in CT : 2/28/2015 7:27 pm : link
I am unsettled by his attempts at self-awareness. Yes, he's very young. And yes, he's doing all the right things. But his "ham" style is...I'll use it again--unsettling to me. Needing to pose with people constantly in social media, hyping the glamor that's been afforded to him.

What does all that mean? Potentially I guess that he could become a target of late hits and borderline stuff to get him out of his game. That could happen anyway even if he was flying underneath the radar.

I don't know. I guess I'm complaining when we have an off-the-charts talent and that could come across strangely.
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