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Giants Draft Day Dilemma- YOU make the call

YANKEE28 : 2/28/2015 9:17 am
Imagine, its Draft Day, and the Giants are on the clock at #9. It has been a defensive draft to date, and one of the two top receivers (your choice either Amari Cooper or Kevin White), is still on the board.

The Giants get a call from the Cleveland Browns. The Browns, with their recent mess with both Josh Gordon and Johnny Manziel, are desperate for a blue chip wide receiver.

The Browns are pick heavy this draft and have 2 first round picks (12,19) as well as two 4th round picks. The Browns offer the Giants the 12th overall pick plus their 3rd rounder (# 77 overall) to move up 3 slots.

The trade value chart shows that to move down from 9 to 12 is worth a 4th rounder, so the Browns offer is generous to the Giants.

You are Jerry Reese and the clock is ticking.

YOU make the call-
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Let's wrap this decision around the next 4-5 years  
Rjanyg : 2/28/2015 12:28 pm : link
Eli Manning will probably be extended soon so adding a viable weapon to this offense is a smart move. Free agency will bring the O line help we need, I have little doubt. If White or Cooper are available you pick one, don't trade the pick. When OBJ contract is in its last year, if healthy, you extend him and would still have this years first round receiver under contract for another year. This is a passing league so you will always need playmakers catching passes.

RE: RE: No.  
drkenneth : 2/28/2015 12:36 pm : link
In comment 12156844 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
In comment 12156667 AcidTest said:


Quote:


Cooper and White are potential game changers at WR, and we don't know about Cruz. Screw the draft chart. I'm not giving up the chance to get a player like that just to get an extra third round pick.



Yopu have zero idea if that true other than your opinion. Last year the same people who were pimping Sammy Watkins said the same. OBJ is the game changer.

Alos the Giants have a game changer in OBJ. They don't need another one more than they need an OT, LB, CB, S etc. Shit I'd take Williams over another WR. Dnever had like 4 game changes on Offnese last year. I issued how they did in the Superbowl. Oh they didn't make it. The year before w game changes they got bitch slapped out of the stadium. They will be a very good to great player available 3-6 picks later. If Reese is such a fucking genius he can do it again right?

The WR or bust crowd here also conveniently forgets it was defense that lost most of the games last year. Even with maybe the most amazing catch in NFL history the Giants lost that game due to defense and an inability to run the ball.



"The WR or bust crowd"

Is that really a thing? There is this called "free agency", where NFL teams can acquire football players who are not under contract. Believe it or not, the Giants could sign a starting OL & draft the BPA at #9.

We all get it- The OL needs work. No one is denying that. I am all for an OL at # (if value is there)...but, it doesn't seem to be at this moment.
RE: What M.S. and Lauderdale said.  
drkenneth : 2/28/2015 12:37 pm : link
In comment 12156870 Emlen'sGremlins said:
Quote:
John Mara And Tom Coughlin Are Going To Insist That Jerry Reese Addresses Play In The Trenches This Offseason. Its Been Neglected Too Long And We're Three Years Removed From The Playoffs As A result.


"Its Been Neglected Too Long" = false
RE: drkenneth...  
UConn4523 : 2/28/2015 12:46 pm : link
In comment 12156810 M.S. said:
Quote:
...we need at least one blue chip run blocker on this o-line of ours, and the chances of finding him at #9 (as opposed to #40) are VASTLY greater.

No effective run game, no winning season.

And no effective run-stopping team, and we'll be picking in the Top 10 for a long time to come.

It's a point-of-attack league and right now we are #32 at the POA.


And even with all that they fizzled out after what I think was an overachieving year. So what's your point?
Gottsa know  
Glover : 2/28/2015 12:46 pm : link
who you are targeting at 12 and the likelihood of him still being there, or have a plan B that is equally palatable.
We need an upgrade on both lines  
Headhunter : 2/28/2015 12:53 pm : link
everyone buys into that. However, the 3 parrots from "we've ignored the line for too long" are wrong and repetitive and one trick ponies that post for each other
RE: drkenneth...  
drkenneth : 2/28/2015 12:58 pm : link
In comment 12156810 M.S. said:
Quote:
...we need at least one blue chip run blocker on this o-line of ours, and the chances of finding him at #9 (as opposed to #40) are VASTLY greater.

No effective run game, no winning season.

And no effective run-stopping team, and we'll be picking in the Top 10 for a long time to come.

It's a point-of-attack league and right now we are #32 at the POA.


All anyone is saying is that there MAY not be an OL worth the #9 pick in the draft. You may have to prepare yourself for this. If Scherff is the 9th best player (and no WR/DL is available)...I am cool with that.
RE: We need an upgrade on both lines  
njm : 2/28/2015 1:00 pm : link
In comment 12156922 Headhunter said:
Quote:
everyone buys into that. However, the 3 parrots from "we've ignored the line for too long" are wrong and repetitive and one trick ponies that post for each other


Tyler Lockett in the 3rd would be a be a Top 3 receiver for the Giants in 2015 and they would be able to get help for the line (either) with #12. He'd also help the return game right away. Why not take advantage of strong class of WRs who can provide immediate help even in the 3rd rd. and use the top pick at a position where a 3rd rd. pick would NOT provide immediate help?
RE: RE: RE: No.  
LauderdaleMatty : 2/28/2015 1:17 pm : link
In comment 12156900 drkenneth said:
Quote:
In comment 12156844 LauderdaleMatty said:


Quote:


In comment 12156667 AcidTest said:


Quote:


Cooper and White are potential game changers at WR, and we don't know about Cruz. Screw the draft chart. I'm not giving up the chance to get a player like that just to get an extra third round pick.



Yopu have zero idea if that true other than your opinion. Last year the same people who were pimping Sammy Watkins said the same. OBJ is the game changer.

Alos the Giants have a game changer in OBJ. They don't need another one more than they need an OT, LB, CB, S etc. Shit I'd take Williams over another WR. Dnever had like 4 game changes on Offnese last year. I issued how they did in the Superbowl. Oh they didn't make it. The year before w game changes they got bitch slapped out of the stadium. They will be a very good to great player available 3-6 picks later. If Reese is such a fucking genius he can do it again right?

The WR or bust crowd here also conveniently forgets it was defense that lost most of the games last year. Even with maybe the most amazing catch in NFL history the Giants lost that game due to defense and an inability to run the ball.





"The WR or bust crowd"

Is that really a thing? There is this called "free agency", where NFL teams can acquire football players who are not under contract. Believe it or not, the Giants could sign a starting OL & draft the BPA at #9.

We all get it- The OL needs work. No one is denying that. I am all for an OL at # (if value is there)...but, it doesn't seem to be at this moment.


Yes and why can't you get another WR in FA? And yes there are plenty here who literally want a WR at 9 no matte who else is available. You here about White's freakish measurables. Vic Beasly's measurables are more freakish. Want to do a search on the threads and see whose name pops more?

This all about opinion but IMO Reese has had 9 years of deafting WR high. He finally nailed one and it's still not enough. Between him and manyy like yourself one would think there's no other postion on the field. Reese is myopic when it comes to the WR positon and so are many on this site.

Also What's interesting is you saying players can be had in FA and
That's not been a panacea at all these last few years by any stretch. And it's one of the main reasons there's been cap issues. Missing on picks and having to grab more expensive FA types who half the time don't work out and cost more.

I hope we get a great player at 9. But again IMO even adding The next Jerey Rice isn't helping this team win.
WR isn't a position that we should spend money on  
UConn4523 : 2/28/2015 1:21 pm : link
wait and see what Cobb gets, a guy who I like but is almost guaranteed not to be as good as he was with Rodgers. And when's the last time we went WR in round 1 other than Beckham?
RE: RE: No.  
AcidTest : 2/28/2015 1:25 pm : link
In comment 12156844 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
In comment 12156667 AcidTest said:


Quote:


Cooper and White are potential game changers at WR, and we don't know about Cruz. Screw the draft chart. I'm not giving up the chance to get a player like that just to get an extra third round pick.



Yopu have zero idea if that true other than your opinion. Last year the same people who were pimping Sammy Watkins said the same. OBJ is the game changer.

Alos the Giants have a game changer in OBJ. They don't need another one more than they need an OT, LB, CB, S etc. Shit I'd take Williams over another WR. Dnever had like 4 game changes on Offnese last year. I issued how they did in the Superbowl. Oh they didn't make it. The year before w game changes they got bitch slapped out of the stadium. They will be a very good to great player available 3-6 picks later. If Reese is such a fucking genius he can do it again right?

The WR or bust crowd here also conveniently forgets it was defense that lost most of the games last year. Even with maybe the most amazing catch in NFL history the Giants lost that game due to defense and an inability to run the ball.


Of course it's my opinion. That's what this board is for. The expressions of opinions. And I have seen quite a lot of Cooper and White, as have many here. They are universally considered to be top ten picks.

And it's not WR or bust. It's BPA or bust. So says Reese and Coughlin. Over and over. Reese has also made it clear he wants "playmakers." I doubt he'd pass on a playmaker like Cooper or White for an extra third round pick, unless of course he didn't consider them playmakers. Which would be ridiculous.

Sure, the run defense sucks. But Reese uses FA to address needs. The draft is BPA.
I'll try again (real slow-like)  
drkenneth : 2/28/2015 1:33 pm : link
"Between him and manyy like yourself one would think there's no other"

-If there is DE/DT fit/value at #9 I'm all for it. (There doesn't seem to be at this moment)

-If there is an OL fit/value at #9 I'm all for it. (There doesn't seem to be at this moment)

-If there is WR fit/value at #9 I'm all for it. (There seems to be 2-3 WRs that may fit)

Reese hasn't ignored the OL or D...He's about to franchise JPP, He drafted Hankins #2, Bromley #3, paid DRC (the best FA CB), and will extend Prince.

Calm the fuck down.
And as UConn stated-  
drkenneth : 2/28/2015 1:35 pm : link
You don't spend big $$$ on a FA WR.

If he did, you'd probably bitch about that as well.
This team is pathetic at running the ball and stopping the run....  
Emlen'sGremlins : 2/28/2015 1:50 pm : link
....It's Why We Haven't Made The Playoffs In 3 Years And Have Losing Seasons In A Row. But Let's Add Another Luxury Toy At WR. Makes Perfect Sense.
I'd counter and want their 2nd  
WeatherMan : 2/28/2015 2:01 pm : link
under the new rookie contracts draft pick values have increased. Should the Browns not budge I take the WR.
Think about this, Emlen. Imagine that we took Martin last year and  
yatqb : 2/28/2015 2:04 pm : link
Dallas drafted OBJ to go with Bryant, and then an OL in the 2nd round. They'd have been even more frightening, imo. I'd say you've gotta go with the best talent available...and with the Gmen, if it's a lineman all the better. But you can't force it.
Make the deal  
jeff57 : 2/28/2015 2:05 pm : link
You'll be picking up a third rounder to move down only 3 spots. And you can get as good a player at 12 as you can get at 9.
i make the deal if  
NYG4246 : 2/28/2015 2:08 pm : link
2 of the premier linemen( Collins, Sherff, Peat) are on the board
RE: i make the deal if  
dguy901 : 2/28/2015 2:25 pm : link
In comment 12157017 NYG4246 said:
Quote:
2 of the premier linemen( Collins, Sherff, Peat) are on the board

Why does everyone think we need to spend a 1st rd'r on OL? You can probably get an OG who will start in rd 3, 2nd at the worst! Beatty is locked in at LT, Pugh is the starter at RT, Richburg is taking over at C and Schwartz is a RG! Other than the 1 terrible game when I believe he was injured, Pugh played well. We need maulers at OG who can block to establish the run game. We have a mauler who excels in run blocking and was a late rd'r in 2013, Eric Herman. Only the coaches can address that probability.
I think the Rams take the other WR at 10 so their both gone at 12.  
wgenesis123 : 2/28/2015 2:34 pm : link
They are getting their pick of the two top WR's in the draft, make them kick in a little more to the deal. A 3 and a 4 or their number 2.
Yeah  
Headhunter : 2/28/2015 2:39 pm : link
Greg Robinson @ 2 did wonders for the Rams
RE: You Make that Trade...  
NYDCBlue : 2/28/2015 3:29 pm : link
In comment 12156650 M.S. said:
Quote:

...every day of the week.

The Giants have so many, many holes to fill.

That's a very easy trade to make.

I sure hope it unfolds that way!!!



Agreed. You run to make that trade. Then you select Superman's father with the Browns pick (La'el Collens)
Good question......It depends.  
Dry Lightning : 2/28/2015 3:36 pm : link
As many have said, this is a red chip draft. We have to get a blue chip player. If an impact player will still fall to us I say make it. Meaning, Lael Collins, Scherff, Beasley, or Ray. If we get stuck with some project like Arik Armstead that is a stupid trade. The Giants have made many picks like Arik Armstead in the past. And most have them have really sucked.
dguy901...  
M.S. : 2/28/2015 3:37 pm : link

...Eric Herman?

RE: AcidTest...  
NYDCBlue : 2/28/2015 3:43 pm : link
In comment 12156706 M.S. said:
Quote:
...we don't know about Cruz, but we know about the combo of OBJ and Rueben Randle and that's the best 1-2 combo we have at any position on this team!

No thank you at wide receiver at #9.

We need real men along the front 7 and along the offensive line.

There are very few of them on the team right now!


You know, this past season was so shitty the only way I got through games was by getting sauced, so maybe it is just me, and I missed this "so called" Randle imergence. From what I remember, he just went from replacement level,to bottom of the roster level. That is at least comfort to know that as a backup, at least there is hope that he can step in when needed and be respectable.
RE: You Make that Trade...  
Coach Mason : 2/28/2015 3:50 pm : link
In comment 12156650 M.S. said:
Quote:

...every day of the week.

The Giants have so many, many holes to fill.

That's a very easy trade to make.

I sure hope it unfolds that way!!!


Only if we still think we can get someone we have rated on the same tier (perhaps Parker, Beasley and maybe Gordon).
NYDCBlue...  
M.S. : 2/28/2015 3:53 pm : link
...you got me laughing with that one on a cold ass NY afternoon!
I don't do that trade  
RAIN : 2/28/2015 3:56 pm : link
I have Cooper and White in the top tier. I don't think either will be there, but this draft has some WR depth. I make Cooper the pick and have two number one's for years. I focus on T/LB/S in the next few rounds.
Taylor Lewan at 11  
Headhunter : 2/28/2015 4:00 pm : link
ODB at 12

Yeah let's make up for our miss and take a Tackle that is a guard or an edge rusher that is a 3-4 guy and pass on Cooper White or Parker
dguy  
Emlen'sGremlins : 2/28/2015 4:24 pm : link
"Beatty is locked in at LT"

This isn't necessarily a good thing and we could do better.

"Pugh is the starter at RT"

Ditto. He was awful last year.

"Richburg is taking over at C"

I realize it was his natural position in college, but he hasn't played there yet in the NFL.

"Schwartz is a RG"

Our coaching staff didn't think so. And he was terrible at LG before getting hurt in the preseason.

Now do you see why we might take an O-Lineman in the 1st Round?






Wow.  
drkenneth : 2/28/2015 4:27 pm : link
.
I draft the WR at #9  
JonC : 2/28/2015 4:28 pm : link
and see how the tier looks at #40 wrt to OL, DL, etc. Draft the best player.
"If the old man dies,  
PEEJ : 2/28/2015 4:36 pm : link
make the deal, Sonny"
Thanks for that  
Headhunter : 2/28/2015 4:56 pm : link
I'm more convinced that WR is the way to go.
RE: Thanks for that  
mrvax : 2/28/2015 5:25 pm : link
In comment 12157149 Headhunter said:
Quote:
I'm more convinced that WR is the way to go.


I'd be happy if the Giants drafted a defender that they had heavily favored at #9. If they think he's a good playmaker...grab him. If JPP leaves, the new guy would be lonesome.
Who is this defensive stud  
Headhunter : 2/28/2015 5:35 pm : link
that will impact our defense? All the guys listed outside of Shelton and I don't see JR using number 9 on a DT that is better suited to be a NT on a 3-4. Ray, Beasley, are undersized. The WR come clean, no question that Cooper, White, Parker make an impact with a 0 percent bust factor. Take the money and run
HH...Yup.  
drkenneth : 2/28/2015 5:37 pm : link
I just don't see the DE/DT/LB worthy of #9.
Completely depends on what the Giants do during free agency  
jlukes : 2/28/2015 5:39 pm : link
And who else is on the board
RE: Who is this defensive stud  
NYDCBlue : 2/28/2015 6:04 pm : link
In comment 12157179 Headhunter said:
Quote:
that will impact our defense? All the guys listed outside of Shelton and I don't see JR using number 9 on a DT that is better suited to be a NT on a 3-4. Ray, Beasley, are undersized. The WR come clean, no question that Cooper, White, Parker make an impact with a 0 percent bust factor. Take the money and run


If all of Cooper, White, and Collins are gone I wonder about Beasley at SAM. He had a sub 7, I believe, short shuttle. How many linebackers were sub 7? Maybe 4 at most. His broad jump was insane. Something like 10"10!

He can play sam, and put his hand in the dirt on pass rushing downs, perhaps.
If those 3 are gone it confirms  
Headhunter : 2/28/2015 6:58 pm : link
that the teams drafting 1-8 see this draft the same way I do
RE: You Make that Trade...  
montanagiant : 2/28/2015 7:24 pm : link
In comment 12156650 M.S. said:
Quote:

...every day of the week.

The Giants have so many, many holes to fill.

That's a very easy trade to make.

I sure hope it unfolds that way!!!

Agree
Funny how after OBJ the Giants just can't go OL  
Giants2012 : 2/28/2015 7:26 pm : link
despite winning 6 games b/c the OL stinks.

Thank goodness C.J.Spiller isn't in this draft b/c that FA, which isn't even mentioned now, was a must pick had he fell years ago.

The decision would depend on my draft board  
Milton : 2/28/2015 7:32 pm : link
In the likelihood that I have the receiver and two or three linemen equally graded, I jump at that trade.
No I wouldn't trade 9 for 12 and 77.  
BlueLou : 2/28/2015 7:56 pm : link
I would however counter offer 9 + 40 for 12 + 19! That's my target trade down with the Browns.
Make the trade.  
Red Dog : 2/28/2015 8:44 pm : link
This team needs almost everything more than another WR. It's a red chip draft. Get an extra red chip.
I have heard McShay say (FWIW)  
Tom in Kzoo : 3/1/2015 9:54 am : link
That there are 15 1st round grades in this draft. 15.

Trading back to 12 should still net us one. But a 3rd is still not enough for me to do it. I agree with those who say counter and ask for 2nd round pick.
Not after last year.  
wigs in nyc : 3/1/2015 4:56 pm : link
Last year may have forever changed my mind on this type of trade- there is/was no quantifiable value in the dropoff of Beckham to the rest.

If you believe in your guy, take that guy.
RE: I reject the trade.  
HomerJones45 : 3/1/2015 5:10 pm : link
In comment 12156678 AnishPatel said:
Quote:
I know I am going to get someone good. So why trade? I can get a good player and stick to BPA.

It would be very, very good, if we were on the clock and Cooper was still there. In fact it's very easy decision. If he is BPA, then I am drafting him, and surrounding Eli will as much talent as possible.
and you would be the first one pissing and moaning about the defense.

Take the deal.
I would counter  
Mr. Nickels : 3/2/2015 12:02 am : link
and insist on their 2. We hold all the cards. Rams Vikings could take the other 2 1st round WRs and leave the Browns empty handed. We don't need a WR any way nor should we take one.
RE: WR isn't a position that we should spend money on  
Mr. Nickels : 3/2/2015 12:14 am : link
In comment 12156951 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
And when's the last time we went WR in round 1 other than Beckham?


Nicks
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