Imagine, its Draft Day, and the Giants are on the clock at #9. It has been a defensive draft to date, and one of the two top receivers (your choice either Amari Cooper or Kevin White), is still on the board.
The Giants get a call from the Cleveland Browns. The Browns, with their recent mess with both Josh Gordon and Johnny Manziel, are desperate for a blue chip wide receiver.
The Browns are pick heavy this draft and have 2 first round picks (12,19) as well as two 4th round picks. The Browns offer the Giants the 12th overall pick plus their 3rd rounder (# 77 overall) to move up 3 slots.
The trade value chart shows that to move down from 9 to 12 is worth a 4th rounder, so the Browns offer is generous to the Giants.
You are Jerry Reese and the clock is ticking.
YOU make the call-
...every day of the week.
The Giants have so many, many holes to fill.
That's a very easy trade to make.
I sure hope it unfolds that way!!!
And if its really a D-heavy top of the draft, I'm then looking to slide back again while the OL prospects fall with me.
It would be very, very good, if we were on the clock and Cooper was still there. In fact it's very easy decision. If he is BPA, then I am drafting him, and surrounding Eli will as much talent as possible.
Do you make that trade ??
Lot at the difference having Beckham mad on the team last year in the second half -- the guy got everyone's good pumping and sparked the team in addition to electrifying the fans --- you can't let the potential for greatness pass you by
1. That draft board is obsolete since the new CBA IMO. You get to control a first rounder for as many as 5 years at a minimal investment.
2. This appears to be weak draft so a 3rd rounder isn't exactly gold
3. I could see both the Rams and the Vikings wanting receivers.
Plus, the Browns had two #1's last year and two #1's this year (in addition to high #2 picks). I'd say their front office better solidify their organization after two years of prime picks and they aren't off to good start. They NEED a receiver. For a #2 I'd make the trade but not for a #3.
No thank you at wide receiver at #9.
We need real men along the front 7 and along the offensive line.
There are very few of them on the team right now!
No thank you at wide receiver at #9.
We need real men along the front 7 and along the offensive line.
There are very few of them on the team right now!
Why do people here act as if the Giants can only add 1 player to the roster? As if we don't draft an OL at #9, the team will collapse.
It's a silly stance. Folks here need to prepare themselves that the #9 may not be an O, or even a DL.
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...we don't know about Cruz, but we know about the combo of OBJ and Rueben Randle and that's the best 1-2 combo we have at any position on this team!
No thank you at wide receiver at #9.
We need real men along the front 7 and along the offensive line.
There are very few of them on the team right now!
Why do people here act as if the Giants can only add 1 player to the roster? As if we don't draft an OL at #9, the team will collapse.
It's a silly stance. Folks here need to prepare themselves that the #9 may not be an O, or even a DL.
Not to mention that a rookie OL taken at even #9 has no guarantee of being an adequate starter (see: Gallery, Robert). If you really want to fix the OL you do it with a proven FA.
I will leave the post up to let others respond.
Let me play Devil's Advocate both ways:
1. The Team of Reese/Ross have been historically awful at utilizing 3rd round picks. Does that matter?
2. Eli will likely be a Giant his entire career. Do we get him another blue chip receiver?
3. History in the past 2-3 years of drafts day trades, shows this to be a substantial offer (#9 for #12,#77) from the Browns.
4. After 2 bad seasons, the pressure is really on Reese to produce. Is a wide receiver the easiest position to acclimate into a starting role
5. Rueben Randle just turned 23 and was a different player the last few weeks of 14. Do we already have that stud wide receiver on the roster?
But Who else is left? What grades of next 4 floor players.
Cooper is great......but a little concern about Alabama players
009 = 1350 points
012 = 1200 points
DIFF = 150 points
150 points is the value of pick 088, the 24th selection in the third round. So Cleveland's offer, while fair on paper, is not particularly generous.
Of course, the value chart isn't very important when you're actually on the clock, with specific prospects available. In your scenario, the attractiveness of Cleveland's offer depends completely on whether the Giants have at least four players left on the same tier of their board, with little preference among them. If that's the case, they should make the trade. Otherwise, they shouldn't.
To take your hypothetical 1 step further, i'll imagine that they've filled the OL need with a good FA (Bulaga, Franklin, etc.). In that instance I do not think Resse would trade down at the expensive of a higher rated player and I don't think I would either. If you get a chance at a star you take him.
If it were both 1st rounders THIS year, I'd do it.
There's a reason they call players DIFFERENCE MAKERS. Beckham, this guy at 9, and Cruz will be a nightmare for opposing defenses. And that's providing you can keep them healthy. What would you think if you knew, say, that Beckham was gonna be injured next season?
Because they not only have the best offensive line in the NFL, they have the best YOUNGEST line in the NFL.
And how did that happen?
They concentrated on drafting high quality offensive linemen over several years.
And now that strategy has paid dividends and has left us far in their wake.
No effective run game, no winning season.
And no effective run-stopping team, and we'll be picking in the Top 10 for a long time to come.
It's a point-of-attack league and right now we are #32 at the POA.
Because they not only have the best offensive line in the NFL, they have the best YOUNGEST line in the NFL.
And how did that happen?
They concentrated on drafting high quality offensive linemen over several years.
And now that strategy has paid dividends and has left us far in their wake.
Correct - imagine if they add another stud. With all love for Aikman, Emmit and Irvin, it was that Dallas OL which won Super Bowls. One more stud OL and what's the Giants answer? Keep throwing the football and go 6-10 again?
Bottom line, the Giants already have a #1 WR. And with a deep group of WRs it easier to hedge you bet in a later round and draft a different position at #12.
Yopu have zero idea if that true other than your opinion. Last year the same people who were pimping Sammy Watkins said the same. OBJ is the game changer.
Alos the Giants have a game changer in OBJ. They don't need another one more than they need an OT, LB, CB, S etc. Shit I'd take Williams over another WR. Dnever had like 4 game changes on Offnese last year. I issued how they did in the Superbowl. Oh they didn't make it. The year before w game changes they got bitch slapped out of the stadium. They will be a very good to great player available 3-6 picks later. If Reese is such a fucking genius he can do it again right?
The WR or bust crowd here also conveniently forgets it was defense that lost most of the games last year. Even with maybe the most amazing catch in NFL history the Giants lost that game due to defense and an inability to run the ball.
Because they not only have the best offensive line in the NFL, they have the best YOUNGEST line in the NFL.
And how did that happen?
They concentrated on drafting high quality offensive linemen over several years.
And now that strategy has paid dividends and has left us far in their wake.
Wasting time typing this out. The 7 on 7 crowd sadly seems to be into fantasy football points then they are on winning a Superbowl or even making it to the playoffs.
For example, if they have La'el Collins, Parker, Malcom Brown and Waynes available, and they view each of them as future stars, you might be more tempted. This draft is deep in WRs, OGs and RTs. We could land a very good player with that extra 3.
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Cooper and White are potential game changers at WR, and we don't know about Cruz. Screw the draft chart. I'm not giving up the chance to get a player like that just to get an extra third round pick.
Yopu have zero idea if that true other than your opinion. Last year the same people who were pimping Sammy Watkins said the same. OBJ is the game changer.
Alos the Giants have a game changer in OBJ. They don't need another one more than they need an OT, LB, CB, S etc. Shit I'd take Williams over another WR. Dnever had like 4 game changes on Offnese last year. I issued how they did in the Superbowl. Oh they didn't make it. The year before w game changes they got bitch slapped out of the stadium. They will be a very good to great player available 3-6 picks later. If Reese is such a fucking genius he can do it again right?
The WR or bust crowd here also conveniently forgets it was defense that lost most of the games last year. Even with maybe the most amazing catch in NFL history the Giants lost that game due to defense and an inability to run the ball.
"The WR or bust crowd"
Is that really a thing? There is this called "free agency", where NFL teams can acquire football players who are not under contract. Believe it or not, the Giants could sign a starting OL & draft the BPA at #9.
We all get it- The OL needs work. No one is denying that. I am all for an OL at # (if value is there)...but, it doesn't seem to be at this moment.
"Its Been Neglected Too Long" = false
No effective run game, no winning season.
And no effective run-stopping team, and we'll be picking in the Top 10 for a long time to come.
It's a point-of-attack league and right now we are #32 at the POA.
And even with all that they fizzled out after what I think was an overachieving year. So what's your point?
No effective run game, no winning season.
And no effective run-stopping team, and we'll be picking in the Top 10 for a long time to come.
It's a point-of-attack league and right now we are #32 at the POA.
All anyone is saying is that there MAY not be an OL worth the #9 pick in the draft. You may have to prepare yourself for this. If Scherff is the 9th best player (and no WR/DL is available)...I am cool with that.
Tyler Lockett in the 3rd would be a be a Top 3 receiver for the Giants in 2015 and they would be able to get help for the line (either) with #12. He'd also help the return game right away. Why not take advantage of strong class of WRs who can provide immediate help even in the 3rd rd. and use the top pick at a position where a 3rd rd. pick would NOT provide immediate help?
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In comment 12156667 AcidTest said:
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Cooper and White are potential game changers at WR, and we don't know about Cruz. Screw the draft chart. I'm not giving up the chance to get a player like that just to get an extra third round pick.
Yopu have zero idea if that true other than your opinion. Last year the same people who were pimping Sammy Watkins said the same. OBJ is the game changer.
Alos the Giants have a game changer in OBJ. They don't need another one more than they need an OT, LB, CB, S etc. Shit I'd take Williams over another WR. Dnever had like 4 game changes on Offnese last year. I issued how they did in the Superbowl. Oh they didn't make it. The year before w game changes they got bitch slapped out of the stadium. They will be a very good to great player available 3-6 picks later. If Reese is such a fucking genius he can do it again right?
The WR or bust crowd here also conveniently forgets it was defense that lost most of the games last year. Even with maybe the most amazing catch in NFL history the Giants lost that game due to defense and an inability to run the ball.
"The WR or bust crowd"
Is that really a thing? There is this called "free agency", where NFL teams can acquire football players who are not under contract. Believe it or not, the Giants could sign a starting OL & draft the BPA at #9.
We all get it- The OL needs work. No one is denying that. I am all for an OL at # (if value is there)...but, it doesn't seem to be at this moment.
Yes and why can't you get another WR in FA? And yes there are plenty here who literally want a WR at 9 no matte who else is available. You here about White's freakish measurables. Vic Beasly's measurables are more freakish. Want to do a search on the threads and see whose name pops more?
This all about opinion but IMO Reese has had 9 years of deafting WR high. He finally nailed one and it's still not enough. Between him and manyy like yourself one would think there's no other postion on the field. Reese is myopic when it comes to the WR positon and so are many on this site.
Also What's interesting is you saying players can be had in FA and
That's not been a panacea at all these last few years by any stretch. And it's one of the main reasons there's been cap issues. Missing on picks and having to grab more expensive FA types who half the time don't work out and cost more.
I hope we get a great player at 9. But again IMO even adding The next Jerey Rice isn't helping this team win.
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Cooper and White are potential game changers at WR, and we don't know about Cruz. Screw the draft chart. I'm not giving up the chance to get a player like that just to get an extra third round pick.
Yopu have zero idea if that true other than your opinion. Last year the same people who were pimping Sammy Watkins said the same. OBJ is the game changer.
Alos the Giants have a game changer in OBJ. They don't need another one more than they need an OT, LB, CB, S etc. Shit I'd take Williams over another WR. Dnever had like 4 game changes on Offnese last year. I issued how they did in the Superbowl. Oh they didn't make it. The year before w game changes they got bitch slapped out of the stadium. They will be a very good to great player available 3-6 picks later. If Reese is such a fucking genius he can do it again right?
The WR or bust crowd here also conveniently forgets it was defense that lost most of the games last year. Even with maybe the most amazing catch in NFL history the Giants lost that game due to defense and an inability to run the ball.
Of course it's my opinion. That's what this board is for. The expressions of opinions. And I have seen quite a lot of Cooper and White, as have many here. They are universally considered to be top ten picks.
And it's not WR or bust. It's BPA or bust. So says Reese and Coughlin. Over and over. Reese has also made it clear he wants "playmakers." I doubt he'd pass on a playmaker like Cooper or White for an extra third round pick, unless of course he didn't consider them playmakers. Which would be ridiculous.
Sure, the run defense sucks. But Reese uses FA to address needs. The draft is BPA.
-If there is DE/DT fit/value at #9 I'm all for it. (There doesn't seem to be at this moment)
-If there is an OL fit/value at #9 I'm all for it. (There doesn't seem to be at this moment)
-If there is WR fit/value at #9 I'm all for it. (There seems to be 2-3 WRs that may fit)
Reese hasn't ignored the OL or D...He's about to franchise JPP, He drafted Hankins #2, Bromley #3, paid DRC (the best FA CB), and will extend Prince.
Calm the fuck down.
If he did, you'd probably bitch about that as well.
Why does everyone think we need to spend a 1st rd'r on OL? You can probably get an OG who will start in rd 3, 2nd at the worst! Beatty is locked in at LT, Pugh is the starter at RT, Richburg is taking over at C and Schwartz is a RG! Other than the 1 terrible game when I believe he was injured, Pugh played well. We need maulers at OG who can block to establish the run game. We have a mauler who excels in run blocking and was a late rd'r in 2013, Eric Herman. Only the coaches can address that probability.
...every day of the week.
The Giants have so many, many holes to fill.
That's a very easy trade to make.
I sure hope it unfolds that way!!!
Agreed. You run to make that trade. Then you select Superman's father with the Browns pick (La'el Collens)
...Eric Herman?
No thank you at wide receiver at #9.
We need real men along the front 7 and along the offensive line.
There are very few of them on the team right now!
You know, this past season was so shitty the only way I got through games was by getting sauced, so maybe it is just me, and I missed this "so called" Randle imergence. From what I remember, he just went from replacement level,to bottom of the roster level. That is at least comfort to know that as a backup, at least there is hope that he can step in when needed and be respectable.
...every day of the week.
The Giants have so many, many holes to fill.
That's a very easy trade to make.
I sure hope it unfolds that way!!!
Only if we still think we can get someone we have rated on the same tier (perhaps Parker, Beasley and maybe Gordon).
Yeah let's make up for our miss and take a Tackle that is a guard or an edge rusher that is a 3-4 guy and pass on Cooper White or Parker
This isn't necessarily a good thing and we could do better.
"Pugh is the starter at RT"
Ditto. He was awful last year.
"Richburg is taking over at C"
I realize it was his natural position in college, but he hasn't played there yet in the NFL.
"Schwartz is a RG"
Our coaching staff didn't think so. And he was terrible at LG before getting hurt in the preseason.
Now do you see why we might take an O-Lineman in the 1st Round?
I'd be happy if the Giants drafted a defender that they had heavily favored at #9. If they think he's a good playmaker...grab him. If JPP leaves, the new guy would be lonesome.
If all of Cooper, White, and Collins are gone I wonder about Beasley at SAM. He had a sub 7, I believe, short shuttle. How many linebackers were sub 7? Maybe 4 at most. His broad jump was insane. Something like 10"10!
He can play sam, and put his hand in the dirt on pass rushing downs, perhaps.
...every day of the week.
The Giants have so many, many holes to fill.
That's a very easy trade to make.
I sure hope it unfolds that way!!!
Agree
Thank goodness C.J.Spiller isn't in this draft b/c that FA, which isn't even mentioned now, was a must pick had he fell years ago.
Trading back to 12 should still net us one. But a 3rd is still not enough for me to do it. I agree with those who say counter and ask for 2nd round pick.
If you believe in your guy, take that guy.
It would be very, very good, if we were on the clock and Cooper was still there. In fact it's very easy decision. If he is BPA, then I am drafting him, and surrounding Eli will as much talent as possible.
Take the deal.
Nicks