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Giants Draft Day Dilemma- YOU make the call

YANKEE28 : 2/28/2015 9:17 am
Imagine, its Draft Day, and the Giants are on the clock at #9. It has been a defensive draft to date, and one of the two top receivers (your choice either Amari Cooper or Kevin White), is still on the board.

The Giants get a call from the Cleveland Browns. The Browns, with their recent mess with both Josh Gordon and Johnny Manziel, are desperate for a blue chip wide receiver.

The Browns are pick heavy this draft and have 2 first round picks (12,19) as well as two 4th round picks. The Browns offer the Giants the 12th overall pick plus their 3rd rounder (# 77 overall) to move up 3 slots.

The trade value chart shows that to move down from 9 to 12 is worth a 4th rounder, so the Browns offer is generous to the Giants.

You are Jerry Reese and the clock is ticking.

YOU make the call-
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You Make that Trade...  
M.S. : 2/28/2015 9:22 am : link

...every day of the week.

The Giants have so many, many holes to fill.

That's a very easy trade to make.

I sure hope it unfolds that way!!!
Get that paperwork done and submitted  
bigbluehoya : 2/28/2015 9:30 am : link
Before the Browns change their mind. That is a complete no-brainer unless the Giants have a ridiculous mark on one of those two WRs.

And if its really a D-heavy top of the draft, I'm then looking to slide back again while the OL prospects fall with me.
No.  
AcidTest : 2/28/2015 9:35 am : link
Cooper and White are potential game changers at WR, and we don't know about Cruz. Screw the draft chart. I'm not giving up the chance to get a player like that just to get an extra third round pick.
Make the trade  
PatersonPlank : 2/28/2015 9:36 am : link
I don't want a WR in Rd 1 anyway
I reject the trade.  
AnishPatel : 2/28/2015 9:40 am : link
I know I am going to get someone good. So why trade? I can get a good player and stick to BPA.

It would be very, very good, if we were on the clock and Cooper was still there. In fact it's very easy decision. If he is BPA, then I am drafting him, and surrounding Eli will as much talent as possible.
It depends on how you view Cooper/White  
Ira : 2/28/2015 9:43 am : link
and the other players remaining. If you've taken care of the ol in free agency and you view the receiver as a playmaker and the remaining players as a significant step down, you draft the receiver. If we can possibly fix the lg position in free agency and add Cooper or White, we'll have a very high octane offense.
Sorry  
YANKEE28 : 2/28/2015 9:45 am : link
Ira, but you have not given an answer.

Do you make that trade ??
You take Cooper  
BillT : 2/28/2015 9:46 am : link
No question. A blue chip player at #9 in a red chip draft. A 3rd round pick doesn't come close to compensating for that.
I don't make the trade  
gidiefor : Mod : 2/28/2015 9:50 am : link
and here's why -- with either of those receivers you have a difference maker - and if you have a chance to get a difference maker you take it -- your opportunities to get difference makers in the NFL are few and far between

Lot at the difference having Beckham mad on the team last year in the second half -- the guy got everyone's good pumping and sparked the team in addition to electrifying the fans --- you can't let the potential for greatness pass you by
You cant answer this question  
blueblood : 2/28/2015 9:50 am : link
without knowing which potential players are on the board between 9 and 12 because this is how the teams make the decisions..
Absolutley NOT  
Giants2012 : 2/28/2015 9:51 am : link
IMO

1. That draft board is obsolete since the new CBA IMO. You get to control a first rounder for as many as 5 years at a minimal investment.

2. This appears to be weak draft so a 3rd rounder isn't exactly gold

3. I could see both the Rams and the Vikings wanting receivers.

Plus, the Browns had two #1's last year and two #1's this year (in addition to high #2 picks). I'd say their front office better solidify their organization after two years of prime picks and they aren't off to good start. They NEED a receiver. For a #2 I'd make the trade but not for a #3.
I would make  
Bones : 2/28/2015 9:53 am : link
That trade if they offered their 19th and a 4th rounder.
AcidTest...  
M.S. : 2/28/2015 9:54 am : link
...we don't know about Cruz, but we know about the combo of OBJ and Rueben Randle and that's the best 1-2 combo we have at any position on this team!

No thank you at wide receiver at #9.

We need real men along the front 7 and along the offensive line.

There are very few of them on the team right now!
RE: AcidTest...  
drkenneth : 2/28/2015 10:00 am : link
In comment 12156706 M.S. said:
Quote:
...we don't know about Cruz, but we know about the combo of OBJ and Rueben Randle and that's the best 1-2 combo we have at any position on this team!

No thank you at wide receiver at #9.

We need real men along the front 7 and along the offensive line.

There are very few of them on the team right now!


Why do people here act as if the Giants can only add 1 player to the roster? As if we don't draft an OL at #9, the team will collapse.

It's a silly stance. Folks here need to prepare themselves that the #9 may not be an O, or even a DL.
RE: RE: AcidTest...  
BillT : 2/28/2015 10:13 am : link
In comment 12156710 drkenneth said:
Quote:
In comment 12156706 M.S. said:


Quote:


...we don't know about Cruz, but we know about the combo of OBJ and Rueben Randle and that's the best 1-2 combo we have at any position on this team!

No thank you at wide receiver at #9.

We need real men along the front 7 and along the offensive line.

There are very few of them on the team right now!



Why do people here act as if the Giants can only add 1 player to the roster? As if we don't draft an OL at #9, the team will collapse.

It's a silly stance. Folks here need to prepare themselves that the #9 may not be an O, or even a DL.

Not to mention that a rookie OL taken at even #9 has no guarantee of being an adequate starter (see: Gallery, Robert). If you really want to fix the OL you do it with a proven FA.
Done deal  
Torrag : 2/28/2015 10:14 am : link
#12 here we come. Best O-lineman left on the board becomes the pick.
Thanks for all of those  
YANKEE28 : 2/28/2015 10:26 am : link
that have offered opinions. Great to see devoted Giants fans having passionate answers- and very strong feelings BOTH ways.

I will leave the post up to let others respond.

Let me play Devil's Advocate both ways:

1. The Team of Reese/Ross have been historically awful at utilizing 3rd round picks. Does that matter?

2. Eli will likely be a Giant his entire career. Do we get him another blue chip receiver?

3. History in the past 2-3 years of drafts day trades, shows this to be a substantial offer (#9 for #12,#77) from the Browns.

4. After 2 bad seasons, the pressure is really on Reese to produce. Is a wide receiver the easiest position to acclimate into a starting role

5. Rueben Randle just turned 23 and was a different player the last few weeks of 14. Do we already have that stud wide receiver on the roster?
make the trade  
chris r : 2/28/2015 10:29 am : link
Giants need a lot of upgrades on their roster.
depends what we accomplish in FA and their grades but  
George from PA : 2/28/2015 10:32 am : link
I would love an extra 3rd in this draft to move 3 spots. Sure

But Who else is left? What grades of next 4 floor players.

Cooper is great......but a little concern about Alabama players
YANKEE28: Which trade value chart are you using?  
Big Blue Blogger : 2/28/2015 10:43 am : link
On the ones I use:
009 = 1350 points
012 = 1200 points
DIFF = 150 points
150 points is the value of pick 088, the 24th selection in the third round. So Cleveland's offer, while fair on paper, is not particularly generous.

Of course, the value chart isn't very important when you're actually on the clock, with specific prospects available. In your scenario, the attractiveness of Cleveland's offer depends completely on whether the Giants have at least four players left on the same tier of their board, with little preference among them. If that's the case, they should make the trade. Otherwise, they shouldn't.
BBB  
YANKEE28 : 2/28/2015 10:48 am : link
Things have changed since the new CBA. I am looking at actual trades. Nothing is an exact match, but it seems a switch of 6-8 slots (not 3) is needed to get an extra 3rd.
You make the trade  
#10* : 2/28/2015 10:53 am : link
.
Didn't mean to avoid the question.  
Big Blue Blogger : 2/28/2015 10:53 am : link
If my grades on the top prospects are anything like the draftnik consensus, I probably hang up the phone and take the WR. But before sending in the card, I wait a few minutes in case Cleveland calls back with a better offer. Hell, eleven years ago they gave Detroit the 37th pick to move up from #7 to #6.
It depends on what they've done (FA) / who is on the board  
Eric on Li : 2/28/2015 10:54 am : link
If they haven't added a starting OL in FA and Collins, Scherff are still on the board - then it's a much stronger possibility.

To take your hypothetical 1 step further, i'll imagine that they've filled the OL need with a good FA (Bulaga, Franklin, etc.). In that instance I do not think Resse would trade down at the expensive of a higher rated player and I don't think I would either. If you get a chance at a star you take him.
I'd pass  
UConn4523 : 2/28/2015 10:55 am : link
a 3rd isn't enough for me to lose Cooper, unless I'm reading the pick compensation wrong.
I'm staying put and taking  
mrvax : 2/28/2015 10:56 am : link
my bets playmaker Cooper/White/???.

If it were both 1st rounders THIS year, I'd do it.
.....  
Micko : 2/28/2015 11:00 am : link
Let's day it's last year and we're drafting at #12 and OBJ is on the board but another team offers us a third round so they can move up 3 slots and draft him. Is that a no brainer?
.....  
Micko : 2/28/2015 11:01 am : link
say not day
Take the WR at 9  
David B. : 2/28/2015 11:05 am : link
Either one of them. Especially if he is the highest guy on your board. You'll get your linemen in FA and later in the draft like you always do.

There's a reason they call players DIFFERENCE MAKERS. Beckham, this guy at 9, and Cruz will be a nightmare for opposing defenses. And that's providing you can keep them healthy. What would you think if you knew, say, that Beckham was gonna be injured next season?



Dallas is light years ahead of the Giants...  
M.S. : 2/28/2015 11:17 am : link
...and why?

Because they not only have the best offensive line in the NFL, they have the best YOUNGEST line in the NFL.

And how did that happen?

They concentrated on drafting high quality offensive linemen over several years.

And now that strategy has paid dividends and has left us far in their wake.

.  
InvisibleBlack : 2/28/2015 11:18 am : link
Lol The Browns had a chance at Sammy Watkins last year and traded him. They deserve suffer for doing something so stupid.
drkenneth...  
M.S. : 2/28/2015 11:26 am : link
...we need at least one blue chip run blocker on this o-line of ours, and the chances of finding him at #9 (as opposed to #40) are VASTLY greater.

No effective run game, no winning season.

And no effective run-stopping team, and we'll be picking in the Top 10 for a long time to come.

It's a point-of-attack league and right now we are #32 at the POA.
RE: Dallas is light years ahead of the Giants...  
Giants2012 : 2/28/2015 11:29 am : link
In comment 12156804 M.S. said:
Quote:
...and why?

Because they not only have the best offensive line in the NFL, they have the best YOUNGEST line in the NFL.

And how did that happen?

They concentrated on drafting high quality offensive linemen over several years.

And now that strategy has paid dividends and has left us far in their wake.


Correct - imagine if they add another stud. With all love for Aikman, Emmit and Irvin, it was that Dallas OL which won Super Bowls. One more stud OL and what's the Giants answer? Keep throwing the football and go 6-10 again?

At 9 you have a better chance than at 12  
joeinpa : 2/28/2015 11:42 am : link
to pick a difference maker, hopefully the Giants won't be picking 9 again any time soon, use the pick to get the BPA.
I make the trade  
njm : 2/28/2015 11:48 am : link
And then I pray that Tyler Lockett is still there in the 3rd. There are question marks about Cruz, but I don't think you can assume he's done. Lockett will be a solid slot receiver and is a great way to hedge your bet. He would also help the return game. And even if he's gone, you could still bolster you receiver corps with Justin Hardy or Tony Lippett.

Bottom line, the Giants already have a #1 WR. And with a deep group of WRs it easier to hedge you bet in a later round and draft a different position at #12.
RE: No.  
LauderdaleMatty : 2/28/2015 11:53 am : link
In comment 12156667 AcidTest said:
Quote:
Cooper and White are potential game changers at WR, and we don't know about Cruz. Screw the draft chart. I'm not giving up the chance to get a player like that just to get an extra third round pick.


Yopu have zero idea if that true other than your opinion. Last year the same people who were pimping Sammy Watkins said the same. OBJ is the game changer.

Alos the Giants have a game changer in OBJ. They don't need another one more than they need an OT, LB, CB, S etc. Shit I'd take Williams over another WR. Dnever had like 4 game changes on Offnese last year. I issued how they did in the Superbowl. Oh they didn't make it. The year before w game changes they got bitch slapped out of the stadium. They will be a very good to great player available 3-6 picks later. If Reese is such a fucking genius he can do it again right?

The WR or bust crowd here also conveniently forgets it was defense that lost most of the games last year. Even with maybe the most amazing catch in NFL history the Giants lost that game due to defense and an inability to run the ball.

RE: Dallas is light years ahead of the Giants...  
LauderdaleMatty : 2/28/2015 11:55 am : link
In comment 12156804 M.S. said:
Quote:
...and why?

Because they not only have the best offensive line in the NFL, they have the best YOUNGEST line in the NFL.

And how did that happen?

They concentrated on drafting high quality offensive linemen over several years.

And now that strategy has paid dividends and has left us far in their wake.


Wasting time typing this out. The 7 on 7 crowd sadly seems to be into fantasy football points then they are on winning a Superbowl or even making it to the playoffs.
LauderdaleMatty...  
M.S. : 2/28/2015 11:59 am : link
...yep.
What M.S. and Lauderdale said.  
Emlen'sGremlins : 2/28/2015 12:15 pm : link
John Mara And Tom Coughlin Are Going To Insist That Jerry Reese Addresses Play In The Trenches This Offseason. Its Been Neglected Too Long And We're Three Years Removed From The Playoffs As A result.
I wouldn't make the trade unless it was for 12 and a 2nd.  
yatqb : 2/28/2015 12:25 pm : link
But it would be nice to know what 4 players they have rated most highly after 9 so that we could weigh the options more definitively.

For example, if they have La'el Collins, Parker, Malcom Brown and Waynes available, and they view each of them as future stars, you might be more tempted. This draft is deep in WRs, OGs and RTs. We could land a very good player with that extra 3.
No ay, not intetested  
Headhunter : 2/28/2015 12:28 pm : link
I'll take number 9 and get a star and be on my way
Let's wrap this decision around the next 4-5 years  
Rjanyg : 2/28/2015 12:28 pm : link
Eli Manning will probably be extended soon so adding a viable weapon to this offense is a smart move. Free agency will bring the O line help we need, I have little doubt. If White or Cooper are available you pick one, don't trade the pick. When OBJ contract is in its last year, if healthy, you extend him and would still have this years first round receiver under contract for another year. This is a passing league so you will always need playmakers catching passes.

RE: RE: No.  
drkenneth : 2/28/2015 12:36 pm : link
In comment 12156844 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
In comment 12156667 AcidTest said:


Quote:


Cooper and White are potential game changers at WR, and we don't know about Cruz. Screw the draft chart. I'm not giving up the chance to get a player like that just to get an extra third round pick.



Yopu have zero idea if that true other than your opinion. Last year the same people who were pimping Sammy Watkins said the same. OBJ is the game changer.

Alos the Giants have a game changer in OBJ. They don't need another one more than they need an OT, LB, CB, S etc. Shit I'd take Williams over another WR. Dnever had like 4 game changes on Offnese last year. I issued how they did in the Superbowl. Oh they didn't make it. The year before w game changes they got bitch slapped out of the stadium. They will be a very good to great player available 3-6 picks later. If Reese is such a fucking genius he can do it again right?

The WR or bust crowd here also conveniently forgets it was defense that lost most of the games last year. Even with maybe the most amazing catch in NFL history the Giants lost that game due to defense and an inability to run the ball.



"The WR or bust crowd"

Is that really a thing? There is this called "free agency", where NFL teams can acquire football players who are not under contract. Believe it or not, the Giants could sign a starting OL & draft the BPA at #9.

We all get it- The OL needs work. No one is denying that. I am all for an OL at # (if value is there)...but, it doesn't seem to be at this moment.
RE: What M.S. and Lauderdale said.  
drkenneth : 2/28/2015 12:37 pm : link
In comment 12156870 Emlen'sGremlins said:
Quote:
John Mara And Tom Coughlin Are Going To Insist That Jerry Reese Addresses Play In The Trenches This Offseason. Its Been Neglected Too Long And We're Three Years Removed From The Playoffs As A result.


"Its Been Neglected Too Long" = false
RE: drkenneth...  
UConn4523 : 2/28/2015 12:46 pm : link
In comment 12156810 M.S. said:
Quote:
...we need at least one blue chip run blocker on this o-line of ours, and the chances of finding him at #9 (as opposed to #40) are VASTLY greater.

No effective run game, no winning season.

And no effective run-stopping team, and we'll be picking in the Top 10 for a long time to come.

It's a point-of-attack league and right now we are #32 at the POA.


And even with all that they fizzled out after what I think was an overachieving year. So what's your point?
Gottsa know  
Glover : 2/28/2015 12:46 pm : link
who you are targeting at 12 and the likelihood of him still being there, or have a plan B that is equally palatable.
We need an upgrade on both lines  
Headhunter : 2/28/2015 12:53 pm : link
everyone buys into that. However, the 3 parrots from "we've ignored the line for too long" are wrong and repetitive and one trick ponies that post for each other
RE: drkenneth...  
drkenneth : 2/28/2015 12:58 pm : link
In comment 12156810 M.S. said:
Quote:
...we need at least one blue chip run blocker on this o-line of ours, and the chances of finding him at #9 (as opposed to #40) are VASTLY greater.

No effective run game, no winning season.

And no effective run-stopping team, and we'll be picking in the Top 10 for a long time to come.

It's a point-of-attack league and right now we are #32 at the POA.


All anyone is saying is that there MAY not be an OL worth the #9 pick in the draft. You may have to prepare yourself for this. If Scherff is the 9th best player (and no WR/DL is available)...I am cool with that.
RE: We need an upgrade on both lines  
njm : 2/28/2015 1:00 pm : link
In comment 12156922 Headhunter said:
Quote:
everyone buys into that. However, the 3 parrots from "we've ignored the line for too long" are wrong and repetitive and one trick ponies that post for each other


Tyler Lockett in the 3rd would be a be a Top 3 receiver for the Giants in 2015 and they would be able to get help for the line (either) with #12. He'd also help the return game right away. Why not take advantage of strong class of WRs who can provide immediate help even in the 3rd rd. and use the top pick at a position where a 3rd rd. pick would NOT provide immediate help?
RE: RE: RE: No.  
LauderdaleMatty : 2/28/2015 1:17 pm : link
In comment 12156900 drkenneth said:
Quote:
In comment 12156844 LauderdaleMatty said:


Quote:


In comment 12156667 AcidTest said:


Quote:


Cooper and White are potential game changers at WR, and we don't know about Cruz. Screw the draft chart. I'm not giving up the chance to get a player like that just to get an extra third round pick.



Yopu have zero idea if that true other than your opinion. Last year the same people who were pimping Sammy Watkins said the same. OBJ is the game changer.

Alos the Giants have a game changer in OBJ. They don't need another one more than they need an OT, LB, CB, S etc. Shit I'd take Williams over another WR. Dnever had like 4 game changes on Offnese last year. I issued how they did in the Superbowl. Oh they didn't make it. The year before w game changes they got bitch slapped out of the stadium. They will be a very good to great player available 3-6 picks later. If Reese is such a fucking genius he can do it again right?

The WR or bust crowd here also conveniently forgets it was defense that lost most of the games last year. Even with maybe the most amazing catch in NFL history the Giants lost that game due to defense and an inability to run the ball.





"The WR or bust crowd"

Is that really a thing? There is this called "free agency", where NFL teams can acquire football players who are not under contract. Believe it or not, the Giants could sign a starting OL & draft the BPA at #9.

We all get it- The OL needs work. No one is denying that. I am all for an OL at # (if value is there)...but, it doesn't seem to be at this moment.


Yes and why can't you get another WR in FA? And yes there are plenty here who literally want a WR at 9 no matte who else is available. You here about White's freakish measurables. Vic Beasly's measurables are more freakish. Want to do a search on the threads and see whose name pops more?

This all about opinion but IMO Reese has had 9 years of deafting WR high. He finally nailed one and it's still not enough. Between him and manyy like yourself one would think there's no other postion on the field. Reese is myopic when it comes to the WR positon and so are many on this site.

Also What's interesting is you saying players can be had in FA and
That's not been a panacea at all these last few years by any stretch. And it's one of the main reasons there's been cap issues. Missing on picks and having to grab more expensive FA types who half the time don't work out and cost more.

I hope we get a great player at 9. But again IMO even adding The next Jerey Rice isn't helping this team win.
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