for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Draft vs. FA: best bet by position to fix our roster

George from PA : 2/28/2015 9:34 am
I understand full well we build our roster through the draft. But

I keep reading we need to fix our OL, so we must draft ____OL______. Maybe in the long term......but we must continue to draft BPA. Understanding that some needs take a few years to develop. FA is to patch holes, granted stud LT, DE, QB are rarely found in FA.

I feel free agency is the better way to currently fix the Giants OL......A Good LT is the only position that usually is not available in FA......but I see several RT and interior OL in FA that would solve our problem. Not to mention, I feel, we need men, not boys, right now. We need a higher level of toughness to instill our will.......our lack of success is short yardage is disgraceful. Has a rookie ever provided that on the OL? We need our "McKenzie"!

That same logic goes for DL......finding a game changing stud DE in FA is rarely seen (Greg Hardy) in FA. Just imagine JPP & Hardy.....sorry I regress. But Keeping JPP is a key. There does not seem to be quick fix in this draft.

Now the list of DTs in free agency is impressive and and growing. We also seem to understand how to draft DT....as well. Hankin needs help.

I wish we can find a true linebacker that can cover NFL TE and tackle everything......MIA for years. Toughest role for the Giants to find.

Safety is a concern.....especially one that covers and support the run. Do we convert a big corner?

Corner is somewhat disregarded because of Prince, DRC, etc...but who played corner in their final game? we must be snake bit? We should sign our FA......and pray.

Playmakers (WR, RB, TE, Returners).....youth favors the young....I would always keep drafting playmakers. Who expected Nicks to drop like he did. Cruz is a longshot to regain magic.

Let the action begin!

Like it or not  
YANKEE28 : 2/28/2015 9:38 am : link
I think 7 of the 8 Giants DL's on the final 53 man roster in September are already on the team:

DE: JPP, Ayers, Moore, Wynn

DT: Hankins, Jenkins, Bromley

With that said, I think the biggest need is a veteran DT that immediately starts alongside Hankins.
The top FA priorities  
BillT : 2/28/2015 9:42 am : link
Have to be OL and safety. The Giants must have known battle tested players to complete the OL and start at safety. No rookie can be counted on to be ready to go as a quality starter even one drafted at #9. After that it's open for various fixes but those two positions must have solid veteran proven players.
in football  
Giants : 2/28/2015 10:04 am : link
everything starts with controlling the line both on defense and offense. Giants need to find players who can help control the line of scrimmage.
RE: The top FA priorities  
Coach Mason : 2/28/2015 10:11 am : link
In comment 12156684 BillT said:
Quote:
Have to be OL and safety. The Giants must have known battle tested players to complete the OL and start at safety. No rookie can be counted on to be ready to go as a quality starter even one drafted at #9. After that it's open for various fixes but those two positions must have solid veteran proven players.


I would be borderline astonished if we didn't land a quality starting OL and Safety in FA. They may not be the first signings but they will be the top priorities.
Yankee28. agree those 7 are on 53 and not disappointed.  
George from PA : 2/28/2015 10:14 am : link
I suspect we will keep 9 DL due Ayers injury and youth. A veteran stud DT is a must and another young buck.
I think WR is a position that can be addresses satisfactorily  
PatersonPlank : 2/28/2015 10:15 am : link
through free agency. There are many #3-5 out there, and maybe even #2's. I would rather draft OL, as we have seen its hard to get a quality player in FA. The guys out there are backup quality usually.
You said it yourself  
tomjgiant : 2/28/2015 10:22 am : link
You can't find a LT in FA and we need OL help for the long term,not just next year.I think this year we are in perfect position in the draft to land a LT for the next ten years.He does not have to start at LT this season,maybe RT or G but can take over from Beatty down the road.
RE: You said it yourself  
UConn4523 : 2/28/2015 10:27 am : link
In comment 12156737 tomjgiant said:
Quote:
You can't find a LT in FA and we need OL help for the long term,not just next year.I think this year we are in perfect position in the draft to land a LT for the next ten years.He does not have to start at LT this season,maybe RT or G but can take over from Beatty down the road.


There's a whole bunch of LTs taken in the top 10 over the years that fizzle out or don't hit at all at LT. I really don't see how we can go on a limb at 9 on a LT that may never be that and pass up on a playmaker elsewhere on the field. I'm not opposed to Peat or Scherff, but I doubt they will be rated above others available at 9.

Picking OL at 9 may not fix our line. Beatty also played just fine when our Guards played better (not to mention Center).
fill safety and RT via FA  
chris r : 2/28/2015 10:27 am : link
go BPA in the draft but give DL the heaviest need weights.



Option three is players already on the roster getting better/healthier  
Big Blue Blogger : 2/28/2015 10:29 am : link
Possible examples (with no particular assessment of likelihood - "I" denotes "injury"):
DL: Bromley, Moore, Wynn
LB: Kennard, Beason(I), Butler(I)
DB: Taylor (I), Berhe, Hosley, Jackson, Howard
OL: Schwartz (I), Richburg, Mosley, Herman, Jones, Bamiro
TE: Donnell, Robinson, Cunningham
RB: Williams, Darkwa, Jennings(I)
WR: Randle, Harris, Washington, Talley, Cruz(I)

Again, not claiming that a high percentage of these is likely, but I expect some of them to pan out. A few of the vets bouncing back - especially Cruz, Schwartz and Beason - would be huge.
RE: You said it yourself  
Coach Mason : 2/28/2015 10:29 am : link
In comment 12156737 tomjgiant said:
Quote:
You can't find a LT in FA and we need OL help for the long term,not just next year.I think this year we are in perfect position in the draft to land a LT for the next ten years.He does not have to start at LT this season,maybe RT or G but can take over from Beatty down the road.


Tom that was my thinking too but Peat didn't wow me as much as expected in the combine. Giants usually have a type of LT to go for. Lewan, Solder, Beatty tall wiry strong with solid bases along with excellent feet on film which are usually backed by strong numbers (3 cone in particular) at the combine.
We know that there are stating qualty OL avalable in FA  
BillT : 2/28/2015 10:37 am : link
That's not a question. In fact, there are a number of them.
I am not thrilled with any of the LT in this draft.  
George from PA : 2/28/2015 10:39 am : link
Beatty played well last year and contract will keep him as starter.

With that.....I would move up in the draft to get a top QB, DE and LT.
RE: Option three is players already on the roster getting better/healthier  
Coach Mason : 2/28/2015 10:42 am : link
In comment 12156745 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
Possible examples (with no particular assessment of likelihood - "I" denotes "injury"):
DL: Bromley, Moore, Wynn
LB: Kennard, Beason(I), Butler(I)
DB: Taylor (I), Berhe, Hosley, Jackson, Howard
OL: Schwartz (I), Richburg, Mosley, Herman, Jones, Bamiro
TE: Donnell, Robinson, Cunningham
RB: Williams, Darkwa, Jennings(I)
WR: Randle, Harris, Washington, Talley, Cruz(I)

Again, not claiming that a high percentage of these is likely, but I expect some of them to pan out. A few of the vets bouncing back - especially Cruz, Schwartz and Beason - would be huge.


Good list though you forgot Ayers. Who if he can return healthy could be a big boon to the DL if he plays anything like he did last year.
RE: The top FA priorities  
hankb1126 : 2/28/2015 10:44 am : link
In comment 12156684 BillT said:
Quote:
Have to be OL and safety. The Giants must have known battle tested players to complete the OL and start at safety. No rookie can be counted on to be ready to go as a quality starter even one drafted at #9. After that it's open for various fixes but those two positions must have solid veteran proven players.


the last two drafts we have drafted ol early and started them immediately in pugh amd richburg so you can draft ol and start them
I don't like talent in this draft at S  
Torrag : 2/28/2015 10:45 am : link
Best chance to significantly upgrade there is in free agency. TE is also thin in the draft so if we want to add depth free agency is probably the way to go.
RE: Option three is players already on the roster getting better/healthier  
BillT : 2/28/2015 10:46 am : link
In comment 12156745 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
Possible examples (with no particular assessment of likelihood - "I" denotes "injury"):
DL: Bromley, Moore, Wynn
LB: Kennard, Beason(I), Butler(I)
DB: Taylor (I), Berhe, Hosley, Jackson, Howard
OL: Schwartz (I), Richburg, Mosley, Herman, Jones, Bamiro
TE: Donnell, Robinson, Cunningham
RB: Williams, Darkwa, Jennings(I)
WR: Randle, Harris, Washington, Talley, Cruz(I)

Again, not claiming that a high percentage of these is likely, but I expect some of them to pan out. A few of the vets bouncing back - especially Cruz, Schwartz and Beason - would be huge.


Great point BBB. Especially think Richburg, Schwartz, Donnell, Kenard, Taylor, Wynn, Bromley are going to be solid contributors coming off injury or rookie years.
BBB  
YANKEE28 : 2/28/2015 10:52 am : link
Good list. I would also add CB Mike Harris. Perhaps a flash in the pan, but he was really good the last few games. I love a corner that can come up and make tackles.
can Mike Harris play safety?  
George from PA : 2/28/2015 10:54 am : link
I think we might need one of the corners to do that.....
RE: RE: The top FA priorities  
BillT : 2/28/2015 11:00 am : link
In comment 12156765 hankb1126 said:
Quote:
In comment 12156684 BillT said:


Quote:


Have to be OL and safety. The Giants must have known battle tested players to complete the OL and start at safety. No rookie can be counted on to be ready to go as a quality starter even one drafted at #9. After that it's open for various fixes but those two positions must have solid veteran proven players.



the last two drafts we have drafted ol early and started them immediately in pugh amd richburg so you can draft ol and start them

Richburg started due to injury. Pugh started from day one. It's possible, yes. Are you willing to bet the season that the rookie you draft to start on the OL is ready to go. I'm not.
Please cross Robinson off that list  
mrvax : 2/28/2015 11:06 am : link
He's had plenty of years of chances. He's just not an NFL football player for a combination of reasons. I hate when the Giants keep these useless guys on the roster, year after year because of their draft position.

I'm thinking it's a small miracle they cut ties with Marvin Austin.
George from PA  
YANKEE28 : 2/28/2015 11:12 am : link
I don't think Harris has the frame to be a safety.
George: If you're looking for a CB-to-FS conversion project...  
Big Blue Blogger : 2/28/2015 11:43 am : link
...Bennett Jackson might be a better bet. Wouldn't expect him to contribute much on defense until 2016 though - especially if he has to switch positions again after moving from WR to CB at ND. The good news is, I think he's still cap-controlled for four years because he didn't make the roster last September.
Positions I would upgrade with Free Agents from other teams  
Rjanyg : 2/28/2015 12:18 pm : link
OL: Franklin or Iupati
DT: Paea or Langford
S: Parker or Searcy
RB: jacquiz Rodgers

And call me crazy but I would hope we sign Sean Weatherspoon to a one year prove it deal. He would be an upgrade to Williams at OLB.

If Reese can get these positions filled plus sign JPP to long term deal, sign Hynoski, Thurmond as well, then head into the draft and go BPA.
RE: Positions I would upgrade with Free Agents from other teams  
dguy901 : 2/28/2015 12:36 pm : link
In comment 12156875 Rjanyg said:
Quote:
OL: Franklin or Iupati
DT: Paea or Langford
S: Parker or Searcy
RB: jacquiz Rodgers

And call me crazy but I would hope we sign Sean Weatherspoon to a one year prove it deal. He would be an upgrade to Williams at OLB.

If Reese can get these positions filled plus sign JPP to long term deal, sign Hynoski, Thurmond as well, then head into the draft and go BPA.

I shake when a high-priced OLman is signed in FA. Baas and Schwartz last year make me cringe!
Rjanyg  
George from PA : 2/28/2015 12:38 pm : link
I like how you think.
Coach M.: Totally agree about Ayers.  
Big Blue Blogger : 2/28/2015 2:01 pm : link
Overlooked him because he played pretty well when healthy, but you're right: his recovery is a very important part of the DL puzzle. If he makes it back, I assume he'll be one of the inside rushers in the 4 Aces package, or whatever Spagnuolo calls it this time around. What do you think of him as the LDE in their base 4-3?
mrvax: You could remove a lot of guys from that list.  
Big Blue Blogger : 2/28/2015 2:04 pm : link
Robinson... Hosley... Mosley. It's now or never for the class of 2012. My point was just that until they are off the roster, the organization holds out some hope for them.
RE: RE: Positions I would upgrade with Free Agents from other teams  
BillT : 2/28/2015 2:20 pm : link
In comment 12156901 dguy901 said:
Quote:
In comment 12156875 Rjanyg said:


Quote:


OL: Franklin or Iupati
DT: Paea or Langford
S: Parker or Searcy
RB: jacquiz Rodgers

And call me crazy but I would hope we sign Sean Weatherspoon to a one year prove it deal. He would be an upgrade to Williams at OLB.

If Reese can get these positions filled plus sign JPP to long term deal, sign Hynoski, Thurmond as well, then head into the draft and go BPA.


I shake when a high-priced OLman is signed in FA. Baas and Schwartz last year make me cringe!

We've certainly had issues with FA getting injured. But we've also had issues with first round draft choices getting injured. Look, if we're going to be the most injured team in the league again we're going to be 6-10.
Thanks  
Rjanyg : 2/28/2015 2:55 pm : link
George in PA. If what I stated happens I feel this team can compete right out of the gates with the draft as a depth builder and possibly a starter or 2.

Giving Eli and Prince extensions can free up a good amount of cap space and it has been said that starting in 2016 we have a pretty good cap situation so this year can be the beginning of a major turn around.

Add to that the Cowboys cap situation and the uncertainty of Dez and Murray. Witten is not getting any younger, McClain is also a free agent. If the Eagles truly give up a kings ransom to move up to get Mariota they will take a step back. The Redskins seem to be a perennial mess. The division is very unstable IMO. One solid off season and some health, I can see this team not only take back the NFC East but contend for the next 35 years.
I am pretty amazed that some feel the Giants have neglected the OL....  
George from PA : 2/28/2015 4:24 pm : link
Pugh drafted in 1st......Beatty in 2nd......last years 2nd round for the center.....and Schwartz was the top rated FA........Unelected?

And Dallas is so far ahead? Really......Seattle yes....GreenBay maybe.

Dallas?....... has a great OL right now....a good QB.....but beatable. .Lets see what happens if Dez gets suspended.
That was supposed to be 3 to 5 years lol  
Rjanyg : 2/28/2015 11:45 pm : link
.
Agree George  
Rjanyg : 2/28/2015 11:48 pm : link
3 high draft picks and a decent free agent. Unfortunately, because the Giants missed on Brewer, Mosley and Hermann we have to go out and spend more money on another OL starter.
i think to the DT hole itll be a rotational player  
superdamo : 3/1/2015 9:52 am : link
I really think Coefield is coming back and to the starter next to Hank i think itll be Bromley. Bromley sat out his 1st year just like Hank, Coefield, and Linvol did so now its his time to play. I think the DT comes from FA, a safety comes somethime after the 2nd round of the draft to back up Taylor at FS if Rolle is resigned. A TE will come from FA or mid rounds draft along with a midround offensive lineman to back up. theres another starting offensive lineman spot open which i think will be the 1st spot filled in FA. I think the 1st 2 rounds of the draft will end up being WR/LBER not from needs but from best value on the board and i think a RB in the 3rd round
RE: I am pretty amazed that some feel the Giants have neglected the OL....  
Coach Mason : 3/1/2015 10:00 am : link
In comment 12157133 George from PA said:
Quote:
Pugh drafted in 1st......Beatty in 2nd......last years 2nd round for the center.....and Schwartz was the top rated FA........Unelected?

And Dallas is so far ahead? Really......Seattle yes....GreenBay maybe.

Dallas?....... has a great OL right now....a good QB.....but beatable. .Lets see what happens if Dez gets suspended.


Neglected for a while perhaps. But not so much of late.

If NYG picks up a FA quality OL (which is probable from most accounts). Line would more-or-less be:

Beatty-Pugh-Richburg-Schwartz-FA/RT

-or-

Beatty-FA/OG-Richburg-Schwartz-Pugh

All 5 lineman either top 2 round draft picks or quality FA signings.

Quite a bit of resources allocated to the line.
O line  
Jersey55 : 3/1/2015 10:12 am : link
The play of the O tackle depends very much on how talented the guard playing next to him is and I think that gets overlooked and thats why people talk about the line "gelling"together. I think we have enough talent for this O line but these guys just need to play together for more that one season...
RE: O line  
Giants2012 : 3/1/2015 10:27 am : link
In comment 12157745 Jersey55 said:
Quote:
The play of the O tackle depends very much on how talented the guard playing next to him is and I think that gets overlooked and thats why people talk about the line "gelling"together. I think we have enough talent for this O line but these guys just need to play together for more that one season...


1. Schwartz couldn't get on the field and Richburg was so/so

2. Walton was medicore at best and Richburg should be the center

3. Jerry is a disaster regardless of his PFF pass protection stats. He can't run block

4. Pugh was worse in 2014 than his rookie year

5. Beatty was medicore coming off a pathetic 2013. He benefits from the ball coming out quicker

Beatty, a healthy Schwartz, Richburg, anything besides Jerry and Pugh is Ok, yet hardly great. The right guard better be outstanding.

The ROI on many of these OL is equal to ignoring the position. Unless people believe having a warm body like Mosley qualifies as paying attention.
RE: RE: O line  
Coach Mason : 3/1/2015 11:17 am : link
In comment 12157763 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
In comment 12157745 Jersey55 said:


Quote:


The play of the O tackle depends very much on how talented the guard playing next to him is and I think that gets overlooked and thats why people talk about the line "gelling"together. I think we have enough talent for this O line but these guys just need to play together for more that one season...



1. Schwartz couldn't get on the field and Richburg was so/so

2. Walton was medicore at best and Richburg should be the center

3. Jerry is a disaster regardless of his PFF pass protection stats. He can't run block

4. Pugh was worse in 2014 than his rookie year

5. Beatty was medicore coming off a pathetic 2013. He benefits from the ball coming out quicker

Beatty, a healthy Schwartz, Richburg, anything besides Jerry and Pugh is Ok, yet hardly great. The right guard better be outstanding.

The ROI on many of these OL is equal to ignoring the position. Unless people believe having a warm body like Mosley qualifies as paying attention.


They also started to play better towards the end of the season as there was a steep learning curve with the new offense and it's blocking techniques.

Line is in much better shape this year and we'll likely add that high quality FA starting OL in a few weeks. It's definitely not in shambles like some BBI'ers seem to think.
BPA Interactive  
ghost718 : 3/1/2015 1:21 pm : link
Guys have been screaming this for as long as I can remember,what exactly has it gotten the Giants.They're looking at 4 straight years out of the playoffs.

The thinking behind it prevents one from building an all around team,which is what wins,not stock piling wide receivers.
Back to the Corner