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| Even the NFL's second-tier defensive ends, like the Seahawks' Michael Bennett or the Buccaneers' Michael Johnson received a contract in the $8-10 million range annually, and Pierre-Paul's raw numbers probably placed him in the $10-12 million range. That number might be too rich for the Giants' tastes, given the fact that Pierre-Paul has an injury history, with back and shoulder problems, and a motor that tends to run hot and cold. term, that $14-15 million in salary will make Pierre-Paul very happy. But it doesn't mean he would necessarily be any closer to retiring as a Giant. Assuming Pierre-Paul plays under the tag in 2015, the Giants could use that year to evaluate him further and see if a healthy, motivated Pierre-Paul can sustain his good production at the end of 2014 through an entire season. It's a gamble, to be sure, but one that could be mitigated by how the Giants use their No. 9 pick in the draft this spring. There are several top defensive end prospects projected to go in the top 10-15 picks, including Florida's Dante Fowler Jr. and Nebraska's Randy Gregory. If the Giants use their top pick on one of those players, it gives them the potential leverage they need in contract negotiations with Pierre-Paul. If Pierre-Paul has a banner 2015, another double-digit sack season with his typically strong play against the run, then the Giants are protected by having a young replacement on their roster if he prices himself out of their budget next offseason. This is why it is so important for Reese to hit on his top pick, and why selecting another wide receiver in the first round is an unnecessary luxury for the team if the contract stalemate with Pierre-Paul isn't resolved by the draft. Even with Pierre-Paul on the roster next season, the defensive line is sorely in need of an upgrade, and a player like Fowler or Gregory would give defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo an opportunity to recreate the relentless pass rush that the Giants rode to Super Bowl victories in 2007 and 2011. If everything broke right, meaning Pierre-Paul stays healthy and has a good season, Fowler or Gregory or another defensive end prospect shows promise as a rookie, and their salary cap remained in good health after the 2015 season, then it's a win-win for the Giants. They get another crack at keeping Pierre-Paul in a Giants' uniform next winter, and have a rising stud on the defensive line to pair him or replace him with. |
How is Bennett playing any better than jpp? Bennett played on a better defense last year. Big difference.
And to be clear: I'm all for a pass-rusher at #9. I just don't think there is one worth the slot.
I expect Reese to draft a RB as well at some point.
Let's be realistic here.. Stop making shit up. JPP finished with approx 75 tackles and 12.5 sacks while the amazing and seemingly elite Michael johnson finished with a whopping 35 tackles and 7 sacks...
Please stop spouting bullshit. I know we all want jpp to sign for pennies and the grass is always greener but this myth that JPP is not one of the elite DEs in all of football is only a myth on BBi. The real world knows full well I'll is an elite player and he will get paid handsomely. Be prepared. Someone will pay jpp a boat load of cash because he's an elite de.
Its a silly article. Are the Giants better off with more good DE's? Of course, that helps with contracts and injuries and being a better team. But it is true of every other position on the team. And having a great DE opposite JPP doesn't make him less valuable, probably more. You franchise him this year, bring in a stud at the other end and JPP avoids the double teams and has a great year. Is he going to be easier to sign as a result? Of course not.
Got to just pick the best players on your board.
There seems to be a good chance all three are gone by #9 anyway.
Good, let them pay this year to the tune of 2 #1's.... I don't see it happening. JPP is good but he's not JPP 2011 good.
and taking up 15 million of the cap space would only be worth 2011 JPP ...
Good, let them pay this year to the tune of 2 #1's.... I don't see it happening. JPP is good but he's not JPP 2011 good.
and taking up 15 million of the cap space would only be worth 2011 JPP ...
The JPP of 2011 had Tuck, Osi, Joseph, and Canty for opposing offenses to deal with. If Demontre Moore, Hankins and Bromley can continue to develop, and if JPP can stay healthy, I think his production will be closer to 2011.
Let's be realistic here.. Stop making shit up. JPP finished with approx 75 tackles and 12.5 sacks while the amazing and seemingly elite Michael johnson finished with a whopping 35 tackles and 7 sacks...
Please stop spouting bullshit. I know we all want jpp to sign for pennies and the grass is always greener but this myth that JPP is not one of the elite DEs in all of football is only a myth on BBi. The real world knows full well I'll is an elite player and he will get paid handsomely. Be prepared. Someone will pay jpp a boat load of cash because he's an elite de.
Couldn't said it better my self...what the idiots on this board deserve if for the Giants to low ball...and then watch JPP sign with Dallas and Washington and terrorize the Giants O for years...
Unlike the people on this board...I still don't think we've seen the best of JPP because of a limited football background and he spent a year getting over a serious back injury...what we saw in the 2nd half is what a health JPP looks like...I don't buy the BS about Shittty teams...In the 2nd half of the season JPP went up against quality NFL players...even bottom of the barrel teams have high draft choices playing LT and in some cases Probowl quality players that he beat like a drum in the 2nd half...
All you have to do is look at a list of the top 10 DEs...who would you take over JPP outside of Watt in a straight up trade?? Answer
CANT FIND A SINGLE PLAYER I WOULD TAKE BASED ON PRODUCTION AND UPSIDE.
The Giants have 2 choices either pay JPP the going rate for a top 2-3 DE..Or trade JPP now...its that simple...Franchising and let him play out is risky as well...what happens if JPP is health and then gets 18-20 sacks next year...then what?
That is and has been my biggest concern..
That is and has been my biggest concern..
Good point. Backs are tricky. May be the smartest move to play him on a 1 year deal if we don't get him at long term numbers we are comfortable with (or maybe very incentive laden).
THE ONLY QUESTION TO BE ASKED HERE IS GIVE ME A TRUE ASSESMENT WHERE JPP RANKS RELATIVE TO THE TOP 10 DE...BASED ON PRODUCTION, YOUTH, AND POTENTIAL UPSIDE...THATS ALL!!
That is and has been my biggest concern..
If that's the case and how the really feel....the should trade JPP immediately to the highest bidder and move on...
What's a better choice? I'm all for WR or a member on the DL. Because outside JPP and Hankins, the rest of the crew are just ordinary dudes. They really need to upgrade at the other DE spot and need to address the DT spot a well.
The draft is not loaded with Giants type of DE.......maybe Fowler.
Gregory weighs 230.......stop the lunacy.
The question is: Do you pay him now? Or later?
People are bitching about 12.5 sacks. How much do you think he will cost after Spags gets 14 out of him?
He's not that far off.
The draft is not loaded with Giants type of DE.......maybe Fowler.
Gregory weighs 230.......stop the lunacy.
What's a Giant type DE? Tall, lean, bulk?
Not every DE is going to be Tuck and Pierre-Paul in stature. Demontre Moore is 6'5", 250, but has not shown to be quite reliable just yet, notably against the run. He also ran a 4.9.
An end like Gregory is 6'6" and has room to bulk up. He would not need to start every game or need to play JPP snaps. There's Moore and Ayers also. Point is, there's a big group of pass rushers in this draft and the Giants will pick one. It's a matter of when.
Might as well get it done now, hope you're getting a slight premium over what he would cost if he has a pro bowl year and reduce his cap # to be able to spend more in FA (vs. tag) - unless he's being completely unreasonable and looking for JJ Watt money, in which case they should plan for this to be his last here in blue.
Let's be realistic here.. Stop making shit up. JPP finished with approx 75 tackles and 12.5 sacks while the amazing and seemingly elite Michael johnson finished with a whopping 35 tackles and 7 sacks...
Please stop spouting bullshit. I know we all want jpp to sign for pennies and the grass is always greener but this myth that JPP is not one of the elite DEs in all of football is only a myth on BBi. The real world knows full well I'll is an elite player and he will get paid handsomely. Be prepared. Someone will pay jpp a boat load of cash because he's an elite de.
He's ridiculously talented and has that long projectable frame. Jason Taylor had a similar frame and was a great RE.
Anyway, I'd draft him even if they resign JPP. We need more pass rushers.
He's ridiculously talented and has that long projectable frame. Jason Taylor had a similar frame and was a great RE.
Anyway, I'd draft him even if they resign JPP. We need more pass rushers.
You really think so? I'd be shocked if they took him. If he was 250 I could see it, but 235-240 really doesn't seem to fit what the Giants look for.
Chris, I think he can gain 15lbs, but what I worry about is:
1. Can he gain 15 and still be the same player?
2. He hasn't played 4-3 DE in college, how long do the Giants have to wait for him to make an impact?
Would love to be totally wrong about this as the guy was a great college player, but I have my doubts.
For the record, my above post was not in response to your post, it was a reference to the article. Hadn't read your comment before I posted. Was not a directed attack toward you.
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I suspect the Giants will make the pick very fast especially if he's a little heavier at pro day.
He's ridiculously talented and has that long projectable frame. Jason Taylor had a similar frame and was a great RE.
Anyway, I'd draft him even if they resign JPP. We need more pass rushers.
You really think so? I'd be shocked if they took him. If he was 250 I could see it, but 235-240 really doesn't seem to fit what the Giants look for.
I do agree with you that we need more rushers regardless
I hear you, but how can we equate the two without a proper diagnosis, which we currently don't have?
I think he's probably the most physically talented guy in the draft and that frame is projectable. It could be one of those JPP like high risk high reward picks.
I think he's probably the most physically talented guy in the draft and that frame is projectable. It could be one of those JPP like high risk high reward picks.
I agree that his physical talents are off the charts. His 1.60 10 yard split is out of this world good for a 6-4 long armed rusher. I think he would benefit greatly from some pro coaching, especially from a position coach.
If he weighs in a 250lbs or more, I'll happily change my tune.
I'm not pushing a WR at #9, I'm just saying that you have to go with your board.
Randy Gregory Draft Profile - ( New Window )
Might restructure. If he doesn't then he will be released.
And yes, WR is a luxury in the current league. If the rules change again, then maybe that changes as well.
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This is why it is so important for Reese to hit on his top pick, and why selecting another wide receiver in the first round is an unnecessary luxury for the team if the contract stalemate with Pierre-Paul isn't resolved by the draft.
Yup, that's where he lost me.
Bingo.
Can you imagine if the Arizona Cardinals said they couldn't take Larry Fitzgerald in 2004 draft because Anquan Boldin just had an amazing rookie season? With a top 10 pick, draft the BPA.
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BPA. If that's a DE, terrific, but right now the projections lean towards a WR before a DE.
Bingo.
Can you imagine if the Arizona Cardinals said they couldn't take Larry Fitzgerald in 2004 draft because Anquan Boldin just had an amazing rookie season? With a top 10 pick, draft the BPA.
And 1. Plus Spags should shift JPP to LDE & let Moore or a pick either sink or swim @ RDE, imo
I am fine with that.
I do think they'll take a DE though, sometime in the first three rounds.
If Dupree impresses on the bench at his pro-day, I think he moves up big time! Then again, I am the one who liked Armstead, what do I know!
THE ONLY QUESTION TO BE ASKED HERE IS GIVE ME A TRUE ASSESMENT WHERE JPP RANKS RELATIVE TO THE TOP 10 DE...BASED ON PRODUCTION, YOUTH, AND POTENTIAL UPSIDE...THATS ALL!!
Bottom line is he only had 3.5 sacks thru the 1st 11 games. He had 9 in the last 5 games against less than steller offenses. The $12-13m/yr figure is on the high side unless it is incentive laden. JMHO.
^This.
All pass rushers pile up sacks against bad teams. There is a reason those teams are bad. It isn't unique to JPP. Half of JJ Watt's sacks came agains the Jags and the Titans.
I disagree. It's not a luxury. Our offense has 1 good player, and we still have to see how he handles year 2. Bill B called it a "Cruz and Nicks game", well what is it now? OBJ and....? Surround Eli with talent so he can be productive during these last years. These numbers may be the difference between HOF and not. He showed he can do well in this system. Let's add to the skill players and give him the players to excel.
So I disagree with the notion that it's a luxury.
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This is why it is so important for Reese to hit on his top pick, and why selecting another wide receiver in the first round is an unnecessary luxury.
I disagree. It's not a luxury. Our offense has 1 good player, and we still have to see how he handles year 2. Bill B called it a "Cruz and Nicks game", well what is it now? OBJ and....? Surround Eli with talent so he can be productive during these last years. These numbers may be the difference between HOF and not. He showed he can do well in this system. Let's add to the skill players and give him the players to excel.
So I disagree with the notion that it's a luxury.
I assume you mean one good weapon not player (Eli?). But how many good weapons does NE and Seattle have? Beckham is already Gronk or Lynch caliber. The rest of the skill position players on both teams are pretty average and I think the Giants compare well. The problem is that on the OL and on defense, those teams kick the Giants ass.
So we could use another weapon but we certainly don't need one IMO.
I'm thinking that if JPP looks too expensive, the Giants could give a lot more weight to drafting a possible replacement. If they take a DE, it may very well signal the final year of JPP as a Giant.
I have no 1st round favorite pick this year but since last month, Fowler is my predicted Giants pick if he's there. Spags would be very happy with a young speedster he could play at OLB or anywhere on the line (for some plays).
They got McAdoo a shiney new WR, they might get Spags a guy he really wants this year. Our defense up front, well,...frankly it sucks.
NE is always on autopilot. They maximize their talents. They don't have a boner for balance like we do or try to maintain. If Bill feels like he needs Brady to throw 283182 a game, then so be it. They play to their strengths and that's why both are all time greats. It's amazing how they be successful year after year.
Having said that now, I couldn't give two shits what those teams have. I care about my team and increasing the firepower of our offense which is just 1 player. Plus I want to see how he can do in his 2nd season now that everyone knows about him. That would mean someone would need to step up. I saw countless times when Eli did have time to pass, that no one got open. That was painful to see. When finally he gets time, and no one can find space to get open.
So now that Eli is 34, I want more talent surrounding him. It's not like we can't go what we need and limited to 1 draft pick for the whole draft. We still have free agency and the draft to round out our roster. I am not worried about filling areas of concern.
Health, nobody is really 100% healthy in the NFL all the time. Is there a health clause that could be put in the language lol. Pay JPP or pay Suh but leveraging him with 'Gregory' is not going to work when he can get the money elsewhere. Just put 12 as the hard limit w/incentives.
Good rookie year. Best player on a super bowl champion. Solid 3rd year. Slipped in his 4th year following surgery but still managed to play most games and still played against the run. Bounce back 5th season that saw him mget better as the year progressed...
We know JPP can play here. We know he can play through injuries. We know he can dominate in big spots and literally carry a defense in January and February. We know the defensive talent base slipped badly in 2012 and 2014 yet JPP still played well. We know when the talent is in place JPP is the best player on this defense and a top 3 DE in all of football.
We also know that JPP got hurt and has the back thing and that's certainly something to be leery of but in the NFL injuries are always a concern. Every player is a risk. JPP showed that he is pretty far removed from any back issues and the surgery he got performed (microdiscectomy) is the least invasive and easiest back surgery to deal with.
I really really really don't want to FT JPP. But we pretty much have to re-sign him. I'd rather be wrong and re-sign him then be wrong and let him walk.
And just remember JPP's first 5 years completely dwarf Strahan's first five years. It's not even close actually. The guy has a chance to put together a very special career. He needs to stay a Giant. If i'm wrong so be it...that's life.