Ian Rapoport & #8207;@RapSheet 4m4 minutes ago
Officially: Dez Bryant, Justin Houston, Jason Pierre-Paul, and Demaryius Thomas have been franchise tagged, sources say.
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whether you think he's worth the money or not, it would have cast a pall on the rest of the off season and if he signed in the Division, it would be DEFCON 4 around here. In other words, I'm glad it's done
cutting and/or extending players; 14.8M is a big chunk of change for JPP, regardless of the market.
Hopefully contract talks come, unless this is a 'prove it' contract for him.
Paul Schwartz @NYPost_Schwartz 1m1 minute ago Manhattan, NY
The Giants will continue to try for a long-term deal with Jason Pierre-Paul even after placing the franchise tag on him.
Ralph Vacchiano @RVacchianoNYDN 9s9 seconds ago
Source says Giants will continue to try and sign JPP long-term after tag, but they're not afraid to let him play out 2015 for $14.813M.
...I don't see how it does not become an ugly situation. I don't trust him as one that will take the required measures to maintain his physical status away from the team to where he can just come in and hit the ground running.
Hopefully he has some sense, signs the tender and gets his ass to work if they're not close on $.
I'm looking forward to seeing what Spags does with him.
As a non-exclusive franchise player, JPP can solicit offers from other teams until April 24. Giants can match or get 2 1sts as compensation.
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2011: All-Pro worthy
2012: Pro Bowl worthy despite injuries
2013: Awful season due to injuries
2014: Pro Bowl worthy
People who like to shit on JPP enjoy saying "derp but he only derp did it for one year derp". Well he only had one dominant season in '11 but his '12 and '14 were both very strong years for a DE.
This team lacks talent on the defensive side and just giving away JPP would've been an idiotic decision. Franchising him was what I thought we were going to do since the season ended, it made perfect sense.
if the Giants see someone they like they will cut/re-structure what they have to get it done. keeping him gives them another year to see what they have in D. Moore and Wynn as well as to see how Kennard progresses as an edge rusher. The people just ushering JPP out the door with no compensation have to realize the guy had 77 total tackles last year. You don't get that by falling on top of the pile every play. Getting rid of that type of production with no replacement is dangerous. For the people hand wringing over the 14.8 mill number exactly what do you think a a long term deal brings that number don too? 11? 12? is that such a huge difference in terms of the cap?
2011: All-Pro worthy
2012: Pro Bowl worthy despite injuries
2013: Awful season due to injuries
2014: Pro Bowl worthy
People who like to shit on JPP enjoy saying "derp but he only derp did it for one year derp". Well he only had one dominant season in '11 but his '12 and '14 were both very strong years for a DE.
This team lacks talent on the defensive side and just giving away JPP would've been an idiotic decision. Franchising him was what I thought we were going to do since the season ended, it made perfect sense.
He had 6.5 sacks in 2012. Not exactly lighting it up. I'm still hesitant calling 2014 a bright year as well considering 75% of it he did not performed up to his full capability. He was clearly absent as a monster pass rusher in that time.
Hopefully those days are behind him and he is completely healthy and motivated. But he has the big dollars now, so, we'll see.
the main position they need to address now is LG of RT and Safety. Don't know if the have enough room under the cap to get that done come next Tuesday.
There are some question marks though that are unavoidable:
- He came in out of shape after his best season
- He's been injury prone
- The defense has been garbage in each of his five pro seasons (this obviously isn't entirely his fault, but we're talking about paying him cornerstone money here)
Be objective. How many times do big guys get more committed (and healthier) once they get the kind of money JPP figures to get in his next contract?
If I'm an Eagle or Cowboy fan this news makes me happy.
2011: All-Pro worthy
2012: Pro Bowl worthy despite injuries
2013: Awful season due to injuries
2014: Pro Bowl worthy
People who like to shit on JPP enjoy saying "derp but he only derp did it for one year derp". Well he only had one dominant season in '11 but his '12 and '14 were both very strong years for a DE.
This team lacks talent on the defensive side and just giving away JPP would've been an idiotic decision. Franchising him was what I thought we were going to do since the season ended, it made perfect sense.
Agreed...and JPP is only scratching the surface due to a limited football background and he just turned 26...think he deserves a pass for 2013 due to injury...and it looks like he was not 100% until mid 2014...there is not a single DE in the NFL that I would trade JPP for outside of JJ Watt
There are some question marks though that are unavoidable:
- He came in out of shape after his best season
- He's been injury prone
- The defense has been garbage in each of his five pro seasons (this obviously isn't entirely his fault, but we're talking about paying him cornerstone money here)
Be objective. How many times do big guys get more committed (and healthier) once they get the kind of money JPP figures to get in his next contract?
If I'm an Eagle or Cowboy fan this news makes me happy.
Good post Terps.
Do you know (or does anyone else) a team can remove the franchise tag? For instance, let's say they did this to buy time to negotiate a longer deal and couldn't come to an agreement. Can they then take the tag away and let him become a FA?
that gets lazy after the big pay day I can find 10 that don't.
The bad guys stand out over the years. Everyone remembers the HAynesworths but no one ever remembers Justin Tuck. Or Strahan.
The NFL isn't the MLB. In this league you play for pay. If you sulk or suck you lose your job and then you get cut. Say goodbye to that 20 million that is coming to you.
JPP has played through injuries and rarely even misses a game. He's about as safe a bet as you're gonna find. I get the fear factor but you can't live in fear of signing a star player. If you do, you're doomed to suck for a long time.
Yeah, i'm sure Dallas fans are just giddy right now knowing that JPP is still a Giant. The same JPP that knocked Dallas out of the playoffs and lifted NY to the playoffs in 2011.
2011 was not THAT long ago. Neither was 2014. The guy can play.
There are some question marks though that are unavoidable:
- He came in out of shape after his best season
- He's been injury prone
- The defense has been garbage in each of his five pro seasons (this obviously isn't entirely his fault, but we're talking about paying him cornerstone money here)
Be objective. How many times do big guys get more committed (and healthier) once they get the kind of money JPP figures to get in his next contract?
If I'm an Eagle or Cowboy fan this news makes me happy.
Good post Terps.
Do you know (or does anyone else) a team can remove the franchise tag? For instance, let's say they did this to buy time to negotiate a longer deal and couldn't come to an agreement. Can they then take the tag away and let him become a FA?
That's a good question. I would think they cannot lift the tag unless a deal is reached. If they could lift the tag that would be pretty dooshy and i'm sure the NFLPA would shit sideways if it ever happened. The tag is essentially a one year contract. I guess it could be voided if the player went bat shit crazy but even then it's still a contract.
to do it. But as others have said, it could become ugly, and therefore a distraction, if he starts skipping offseason activities. He may also play cautiously to try and stay as healthy as possible for FA in 2016. Keeping him does allow other players another year to mature. But if the Giants think they can't reach a long term deal, if the two sides are really far apart, then they should see what they can get when FA opens. A number of teams have a lot of cap room, and JPP is recognized by every fan base. It's moot course if all they can get is a shit deal, but I wouldn't hold out for the 2 #1s.
go watch some JPP 2011 games. Do you know what you see?
A belly.
The guy was "fat" in 2011. He might've attempted to put on more weight for 2012, but the difference was never nearly as large as BBI wanted to make it out to be. He clearly lost 10-15 lbs this past year and was in great shape.
Toth. He only had 6.5 sacks in '12 but he was probably the best run defender in football from the DE position that year. He was definitely one of the best DEs in the league despite the sack production.
Now that sack production is why I wouldn't call JPP an "elite" defender. He's just not a great pass rusher which you kind of want from your Franchise DE. But his hustle and run defense are excellent.
People here rave about the Cowboys OL and especially them having a tackle like Tyron Smith. JPP whooped Smith's ass this year. He's a very good player and I'm happy he'll be a Giant again next year.
There are some question marks though that are unavoidable:
- He came in out of shape after his best season
- He's been injury prone
- The defense has been garbage in each of his five pro seasons (this obviously isn't entirely his fault, but we're talking about paying him cornerstone money here)
Be objective. How many times do big guys get more committed (and healthier) once they get the kind of money JPP figures to get in his next contract?
If I'm an Eagle or Cowboy fan this news makes me happy.
Good post Terps.
Do you know (or does anyone else) a team can remove the franchise tag? For instance, let's say they did this to buy time to negotiate a longer deal and couldn't come to an agreement. Can they then take the tag away and let him become a FA?
That's a good question. I would think they cannot lift the tag unless a deal is reached. If they could lift the tag that would be pretty dooshy and i'm sure the NFLPA would shit sideways if it ever happened. The tag is essentially a one year contract. I guess it could be voided if the player went bat shit crazy but even then it's still a contract.
Thanks djm. I would seem unlikely that it could be done, but the way the NFLPA was steamrolled in the last CBA I was curious.
Ralph Vacchiano @RVacchianoNYDN 9s9 seconds ago
Source says Giants will continue to try and sign JPP long-term after tag, but they're not afraid to let him play out 2015 for $14.813M.
It's been my opinion from the start that the Giants must first decide whether it is worth $ 14.8 m to keep JPP for one year in order to kick start Spags defense. If that works for them then the decision is clear.
The ball is now in JPP's court. If as some folks say "he will be unhappy" and gives a lackadaisical performance he will then make the Giants decision for them, and poison the well with other teams. If he plays lights out he will get a decent long term offer from the Giants and hopefully Spags will win over another keyplayer.
And if you're honest with yourself you know that JPP hasn't sniffed that level of play since.
Few businesses are run as poorly as sports teams manage their rosters, and that's never more clear than it is during the NFL free agency period. Teams look for quick fixes and ignore the reality that they are usually paying top dollar for something a player has already accomplished, and not what they figure to accomplish during the life of the contract they are about to dole out.
Why should anyone believe that JPP will stay committed to being in top shape after he is paid, when he couldn't even prove to do it after two seasons of a rookie contract? Why should we believe he will remain healthy as he gets older and plays more games, when he hasn't been consistently healthy to this point?
There just is no objective reason to trust that he will be worth the contract. It's a hard truth that is rarely accepted by fans...money erodes motivation, and there was reason from the beginning to question JPP's motivation to begin with.
to stay in shape thing is BS. Go look at JPP pictures in 2011 and JPP pictures in 2012 and tell me you see a real difference. This isn't something I'm annoyed at in hindsight, it's something I found stupid at the time it was happening. JPP is not a greek God body like a Mario Williams, the dude has fat in his ass and his belly. That lower body power is one of the reasons he's dominant in run D
Giants may think he'll lower his contract demands rather than risk playing an entire season with no guaranteed money.
As I said, there are pros and cons to keeping him. Keeping him allows other players another year to mature. But it's very expensive, and his unhappiness and desire to stay healthy may influence his commitment on the field. I'd lean towards trading him if possible, even though we'd never get 2 #1s in return.
No one is saying he's a slob, but the difference between 2011 and 2012 can be all it takes for an athlete of JPP's quality to lose a step and/or be more susceptible to injury.
Also, if no agreement is reached before the season and he skips training camp I'd expect 2015 to be a complete loss for him and a waste of money for the Giants.
JPP most definitely sniffed 2011 just this past season. He was great in 2014.
Oh wait I forgot, we are not allowed to credit JPP for his play in 2014 because his sacks came in bunches.
The guy has had a better start to his career than the following NYG legends:
Strahan
Armstead
Why is it a forgone conclusion that JPP is going to regress and get fat and lazy? I look at his 5 year career here and see a lot more good than bad. I don't even see any bad actually. I see one year where the guy was fresh off back surgery yet the guy played early on that year and risked his career just to play.
I think JPP has holes in his game and yes, there's some concern because he has the back but he's now 2 full years and a pro bowl caliber season removed from early 2013.
If you don't want to sign JPP, a guy entering his second contract and his prime, then you really don't want to sign any big time Dlinemen to a big contract. If you do, i'd love to know the guy because that dude must be 100% flawless. And he's playing elsewhere, which means he is not flawless because we don't know how he would play here for the Giants now do we...
And never ever ever says or does anything even remotely stupid. And he can't be a Giant because NYG players are always flawed and over paid and dangerous and risky.
And never ever ever says or does anything even remotely stupid. And he can't be a Giant because NYG players are always flawed and over paid and dangerous and risky.
God forbid a player shows up at a sporting event. We will then question if said player "has his head on straight"
Use that money to sign free agents that have been deemed by their personnel people to be more likely to be worth the contracts they command on the open market.
It doesn't have to be anyone expensive, necessarily. It SHOULD be a player(s) that have been deemed to have their best football in front of them. I don't know who those players are, but I'm sure the Giants have scouts and evaluators that do.
had to be done. am I excited? no. The fact that we are scared shitless is more an indictment on our lack of confidence or talent in any one else at the position than it is that we are keeping one of the best DEs in football.
There is not a lot of argument at BBI that JPP is the later and if there was, I would disagree.
I don't think Terps is wrong to be concerned with the amount of money we are locking up into JPP this year. But i also don't see what the alternative was because we couldn't let him walk.
I actually like this a lot better than signing JPP to a long term deal for $14m. I'd rather be handcuffed and let him play out this year and give the guys around him another year to grow. But then again, I am in the minority perhaps and do not think the Giants are close heading into next year.
he deserves more than what he makes and no DE deserves to be in the same conversation....
The Giants and JPP, if they agree to terms, will likely agree to something at the high end of this list and... dare I say it, why shouldn't they pay him that? Consider his ceiling and look at other DEs numbers, compared to his.
Use that money to sign free agents that have been deemed by their personnel people to be more likely to be worth the contracts they command on the open market.
It doesn't have to be anyone expensive, necessarily. It SHOULD be a player(s) that have been deemed to have their best football in front of them. I don't know who those players are, but I'm sure the Giants have scouts and evaluators that do.
You aren't finding many of those guys on the open market. And if you do, you're gonna have to over pay.
We signed a guy like that once or twice. Canty comes to mind--and he ending up costing us a small fortune. We also signed DRC who was sort of just about to enter his prime---again small fortune.
JPP is a Giant. He's flourished here. He's a known commodity. Of course you have to be reasonable and can't spoil the plan just for the sake of signing this guy long term but if you don't sign a guy like JPP, only now entering into his prime and playing a premium position, you might as well just rebuild. And even then, i'd keep JPP because rebuilding still requires talent on the roster to build around.
Signing JPP is a necessary evil. You aren't getting some young ascending pass-rusher for cheap in today's NFL. That's a pipe dream. Go try and sign a guy like McPhee from the Ravens--a guy I like, and see how much he costs.
they wouldn't be so far apart on the contract that they'd feel the need to franchise him. I think they like him, but have reservations about him. That should be the red flag for them, but their reservations don't seem to outweigh their attachment to the player. We've seen them make mistakes in this area in the past.
Hey I have no particular dislike for JPP. Just calling it like I see it.
with the poor competition. It's the silliest argument BBI has made in a long time.
JPP shit all over some of the best left tackles in the NFL this past season and he played like a God in the 2011 postseason. The guy can play. We know that.
can go back and forth on his play over the years. I thought he was very good last year, rounding into form. I don't care that his sacks came in bunches at the end of the season. As others have said, he was good against Smith, and may well be the best run stuffing DE in football.
What concerns me is that he did show up out of shape one year, and has had back problems, including surgery. It also costs nearly $15M to keep him, all of which counts against this year's cap, and he may be unhappy the whole year. Just see what the FA market is for his services. He can still negotiate with other teams. We'll know more in a few days.
15 million for one year is a pretty good "Guarantee"
Sure, he'd get more on a long term deal, but worse case scenario he gets 15 mil. He is set for life. Even if he got hurt next, say he tore his ACL, he would still make money in 2016 - he would sign on with someone for good money.
But, if he's worried about his back, then maybe he does want to sign a long term deal and take a larger pay day now.
Hopefully they'll work out their differences and get something done so we aren't stuck with a 15 mil in cap space for 2015.
the Giants should have reservations about a long term deal
and for the record, I hate the FT but I am praying that they come to terms and can scrap the FT by the time FA rolls around.
I don't want to keep JPP at one more year for 15 per. I think that's counterproductive. I can see why they tagged him but I really hope a long term deal is reached. Fuck this 15 mill cap hit.
Would love to get a 1st this year and a 1st next year for him
And who do you think JPP is? There isn't any way in Haitis another team would sign him and give up (2) 1st rounders plus pay his price! I truly question if he is worth the $15M, call me lame-crazy-ill informed! JMHO.
There are some question marks though that are unavoidable:
- He came in out of shape after his best season
- He's been injury prone
- The defense has been garbage in each of his five pro seasons (this obviously isn't entirely his fault, but we're talking about paying him cornerstone money here)
Be objective. How many times do big guys get more committed (and healthier) once they get the kind of money JPP figures to get in his next contract?
If I'm an Eagle or Cowboy fan this news makes me happy.
Good post Terps.
Do you know (or does anyone else) a team can remove the franchise tag? For instance, let's say they did this to buy time to negotiate a longer deal and couldn't come to an agreement. Can they then take the tag away and let him become a FA?
It's about as basic question: will the return on the investment be sufficient to justify the investment? I think there are enormous reasons to question whether it would be. For me that's what it's all about.
And I think the Giants took a half measure in tagging him. In doing so I think they've tipped their hand about their reservations over a market rate contract as well as risked alienating the player and hurting the 2015 season.
These things rarely end well.
RE: It's not about letting him walk without a fight
It's about as basic question: will the return on the investment be sufficient to justify the investment? I think there are enormous reasons to question whether it would be. For me that's what it's all about.
And I think the Giants took a half measure in tagging him. In doing so I think they've tipped their hand about their reservations over a market rate contract as well as risked alienating the player and hurting the 2015 season.
The
AcidTest : 3:16 pm : link : reply
Giants may think he'll lower his contract demands rather than risk playing an entire season with no guaranteed money.
Well, he can step off a curb, once he signs it, because that 15M is guaranteed....
The
AcidTest : 3:16 pm : link : reply
Giants may think he'll lower his contract demands rather than risk playing an entire season with no guaranteed money.
Well, he can step off a curb, once he signs it, because that 15M is guaranteed....
Good point. The $15M is guaranteed once he signs it. An injury would hurt his ability to get additional guaranteed money in his next contract, but the entire $15M is guaranteed.
they wouldn't be so far apart on the contract that they'd feel the need to franchise him.
Hey I have no particular dislike for JPP. Just calling it like I see it.
I disagree with the assumption that the Giants used the franchise tag because they were far apart. Past history has shown that the team has been able to come to terms with a player after franchising him so why is this case different?
is the that money it ties up will prevent other, desperately needed, moves.
By the time this gets resolved, all the best players may well be gone. Best case scenario, he gets more realistic sense of his value and signs and Giants may be able to sign something form the leftovers. Worst case scenario - JPP plays one more year limiting their ability to make moves, then walks away next year - impacting two off-seasons of rebuilding. Keeping in mind the shelf life left on Eli.
Not sure there was a good resolution to the JPP issue.
RE: It's not about letting him walk without a fight
In doing so I think they've tipped their hand about their reservations over a market rate contract as well as risked alienating the player and hurting the 2015 season.
They haven't risked anything about 2015. Not yet, anyway. It's March 2nd.
If they don't sign him to a long term deal and they let him play on the FT? Yep, that could very well be an issue.
But if they sign him to a long term deal, then he'll be all forgiving...
We don't know what we don't know. We make the best decision with all the info we have.
I'm not sure what the alternative here is. The Giants made the best move at this time. If he walks, the get two #1s.
It's strange- The argument is that we don't know if we'll get sufficient ROI, but somehow the draft/free agency carries no risk? I don't get it.
I'm not sure why anyone here is shocked about any of this.
I'm not shocked by any of this, I just think it's a mistake.
And we all know we aren't going to be getting two number ones. Instead we're going to get a potentially unhappy player at a $15 million cap hit in 2015.
And of course any other free agent or draft pick is going to be an unknown quantity to an extent. My point is simply that JPP is as well known a quantity as you can expect to have, and I don't value that quantity the same way the Giants do. Not even close.
There are some question marks though that are unavoidable:
- He came in out of shape after his best season
- He's been injury prone
- The defense has been garbage in each of his five pro seasons (this obviously isn't entirely his fault, but we're talking about paying him cornerstone money here)
Be objective. How many times do big guys get more committed (and healthier) once they get the kind of money JPP figures to get in his next contract?
If I'm an Eagle or Cowboy fan this news makes me happy.
Good post Terps.
Do you know (or does anyone else) a team can remove the franchise tag? For instance, let's say they did this to buy time to negotiate a longer deal and couldn't come to an agreement. Can they then take the tag away and let him become a FA?
No.
Yes. If the franchise tag has not yet been signed it can be removed.
Look. I'm going to have an unpopular opinion here but with all of the pro-JPP talk this stuff needs to be said.
1) The guy has a chronic bad back. Are we looking to lock a guy up for one of the richest contracts in NFL history with a known issue?
2) The guy is a little immature (see Prince incident).
3) The guy has in the past reported to camp out of shape. Last year was a CONTRACT year and he still wasn't in the condition he was when he was drafted.
4) The guy is an top end pass rusher when he isn't the focus of an opposing OL and a MEDIOCRE run stuffer. This BS I read about him being so stout against the run like Strahan is BS. PLENTY of times the opponent ran right at him and he got blown off the ball or got lost on a pass rush as the back scooted past him.
5) He had to be taken off the field due to injury at least 6 times last year. Now some times he came back but it's just not a good indication of a reliable sturdy player.
What I am saying is this. He isn't a game changer like Watt or even Suh.
In my opinion, JPP is a slightly above average DE who doesn't excel against stiff competition.
That's why the franchise tag is perfect for him. Yes it's a big hit this year on the cap but he's still young. If he wants it, then let him prove me wrong. If he has 16 sacks and an all pro year then pay the dude. Last year was a chance for him in a contract year to play lights out. He played OK. That's it. OK.
If he wants security this year I offer him a deal like Linval got from the vikes- 6 years 30 million or something along those lines with some of it being incentive based. Take it, or play on the tag.
a few days he can start talking with other teams. Somebody with a lot of cap room might well offer him a lot. Of course, it's not just the big contract. It's the draft picks, even if it is less than 2 #1s. Teams may just prefer to wait a year until he is a FA, so they don't have to give up the picks. But he's a marquee player with name recognition around the league. I think the total cost will be too high, but stranger things have happened.
Continues to amaze me many people are against him. Please explain who the hell any other DE got sacks against - all the best DE gets sacks against the poorer T - that is a fact. Go look up all these guys and see who they got sacks against - only JPP seems to get ripped for it.
Absolute BS about him not being good against the run. he is at the top of the list when it comes to run defense. Yes, he has trouble containing QB who weight 60lbs less than him - as does every single DE.
He is a 25 year old top level DE - who do you even try and replace him with. 2 marginal guys at less price gets you 2 players on Kiwi level - nothing
have had contentious contract negotiations with players before. Strahan and NYG clashed time and time again. The 80s it was even worse with the annual summer holdouts. These things are usually ugly. Doesn't mean they will end ugly.
This is a classic damned if you do damned if you don't scenario. There is no easy slam dunk answer. Letting a 26 year old star DE walk for nothing can get people fired. Signing the guy and watching him struggle or get hurt can do the same.
I'm sure many will be around here saying I told you so if something goes wrong but to sit here and proclaim that this is an easy call is laughable. I'd hate to be Reese right now. I still think the best move is to keep the good player right here. IF JPP was 32 i'd think otherwise but he's not 32. And he's coming off a very very good season.
if JPP was a Chief the Giants fans around here would be drooling over the prospects of signing a 25 year old DE that averages close to 10 sacks a year and carried his defense to a super bowl title and plays the run as well as anyone.
Who really knows that for sure? Who really knows how committed either side is to any numbers that have been proposed so far?
The franchise tag is only a useful negotiating tool with a handful of players. Most guys would jump at a franchise tag salary because most guys aren't worth that much and will never see that much. The FT is a good negotiating tactic for the Giants because they could probably live with it more easily than the player can. Meanwhile they get extra time to negotiate and maybe they make the player feel the team is "serious" about not meeting his initial demand and he begins to be amenable to a lower number. Meanwhile of course, the Giants can listen to any trade offers that come their way but no team can afford the two picks plus the big money so JPP can't get a genuine feel for how much he might be offered on the open market. And the idea that JPP would tank the season out of pique sounds ridiculous to me. He'd hurt himself at least as much as he'd hurt the Giants.
He is only good against weak competition. I have seen him dominate great left tackles and good teams. He is a force against the run and a very good pass rusher. He also bats down passes and has two pick sixes in his career. The one question I have is his durability but to say he is overrated to me is just wrong. He is an elite player when healthy. He is going to get a boatload of money from the giants and he deserves it IMO.
is an elite 4-3 DE vs the run and very good rushing the passer.
if you remove him from the team, who do you replace him with?
the answer is not on the roster and not probably not available for less in free agency (assuming JPP is extended).
The Giants are a worse team without him and the player who could be added to make them as good or better is non-existent.
Exactly. Right now we have three definite defensive starters: Prince, DRC and Hankins. That's it. And yet fans here want to let a fourth walk out the door. Unbelievable.
He had a back issue in 2012 in which he didnt miss a game.. and had surgery in 2013... and in 2014 he started every game and played something like 90% of the total defensive snaps which is in the top ten in the league.. If his issue was truly CHRONIC I dont think you would see that...
So all the people who didnt want to franchise JPP because of the $15M
Cap hit, where would you have spent the money? How about a DE in FA, how much is that going to cost? If you think he is a top 10 DE then to replace him with a similar caliber player you are going to have to shell out over $10M. So we may be overpaying by $5M but we have a guy that the coaches already know.
Factor in that the coach who is pretty much in a win now mode wants the player back this was a must move.
Guys like Jared Allen got $12.5 Million and he is pretty much done. DeMarcus Ware got about $9M and he is done. If you want talent you have to pay for it. Even Tuck is signed for $5M. These guys are washed up.
Hopefully we sign a longer term deal in the $10-$12M a year range but when you look at other players at the position thats what he is worth. The Giants dont let a lot fo talent out the door unless there is a clear replacement on the roster which they have done at the DT position. There is no clear replacement on the roster and a rookie is not going to have an immediate impact. This was a must move with the situation the coaching staff is in.
In order to be in the Suh sweepstakes, the Giants would have had to get JPP signed for a reasonable amount or outright fail to make an offer, letting him walk for free.
If JPP walked, the Giants would only have a shot at Suh. There is really no practical way the Gmen could go for Suh.
Giants have a ton of future cap room after this year and ways to make some more room this year. Strategically structured incoming FA contracts with low first year hits (w/ bigger cap money year 2 and beyond) are a strong possibility which will allow them to do more than what it looks on the surface.
RE: So all the people who didnt want to franchise JPP because of the $15M
Cap hit, where would you have spent the money? How about a DE in FA, how much is that going to cost? If you think he is a top 10 DE then to replace him with a similar caliber player you are going to have to shell out over $10M. So we may be overpaying by $5M but we have a guy that the coaches already know.
Factor in that the coach who is pretty much in a win now mode wants the player back this was a must move.
Guys like Jared Allen got $12.5 Million and he is pretty much done. DeMarcus Ware got about $9M and he is done. If you want talent you have to pay for it. Even Tuck is signed for $5M. These guys are washed up.
Hopefully we sign a longer term deal in the $10-$12M a year range but when you look at other players at the position thats what he is worth. The Giants dont let a lot fo talent out the door unless there is a clear replacement on the roster which they have done at the DT position. There is no clear replacement on the roster and a rookie is not going to have an immediate impact. This was a must move with the situation the coaching staff is in.
If the Giants are making personnel decisions with major long-term consequences because the coach is in "win-now" mode, they're not a very well run organization.
If they can't work anything reasonable out with Pierre-Paul, they shouldn't waste everybody's time and money holding him to the Tag contract. The smart move is to trade him to somebody who will his demands (or, absent decent trade offers, rescind the Tag and collect the comp pick in 2016), and invest that cap space in assets that have value beyond 2015. Absent appropriate FAs to sign, it's laughably easy to shift cap room from year-to-year. Just structure Eli's extension with heavy cap impact in year 1 and more lenient cap hits in 2016-18.
But JPP is holding all the cards right now....he doesn't have to sign the sheet yet....has it been established how long he can hold out before having to sign it? As long as he doesn't sign it, he does not have to go to anything the Giants schedule before camp starts....
He can visit whoever he wants....get the best deal, and the Giants have to match it.....the question remains though, can he hold out until after the draft by not signing the deal? If he can, this really screws the Giants....it throws any plans they have into the air....
I seriously doubt he would sign it, and play one year and do this all over again....of course, if he has a bad/average year(due to playing it safe), I doubt the Giants would franchise him again....
Dito
Hopefully contract talks come, unless this is a 'prove it' contract for him.
The Giants will continue to try for a long-term deal with Jason Pierre-Paul even after placing the franchise tag on him.
If they're far apart and he sits out part or all of camp, how good offs he gonna look in 2015? This is a guy that has shown up fat before.
Source says Giants will continue to try and sign JPP long-term after tag, but they're not afraid to let him play out 2015 for $14.813M.
Get the long term deal done and we can move on to other needs.
So who is getting cut/taking a paycut/re-structuring?
So who is getting cut/taking a paycut/re-structuring?
They don't have $10M (if they don't work out a deal with JPP). They have a little over $4M because of the draft pool money has to be taken out.
Hopefully he has some sense, signs the tender and gets his ass to work if they're not close on $.
And for Moore to take a step up in maturity.
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He's never had 2 straight fully healthy seasons which plays a big role in this decision imo.
2012: Pro Bowl worthy despite injuries
2013: Awful season due to injuries
2014: Pro Bowl worthy
People who like to shit on JPP enjoy saying "derp but he only derp did it for one year derp". Well he only had one dominant season in '11 but his '12 and '14 were both very strong years for a DE.
This team lacks talent on the defensive side and just giving away JPP would've been an idiotic decision. Franchising him was what I thought we were going to do since the season ended, it made perfect sense.
this is 1 year 15M guaranteed, for 10M more guaranteed you can lock him up for 5 or 6 years - which IMO is what they should do.
That could lessen his cap hit this year to 4 or 5M from 15M.
2012: Pro Bowl worthy despite injuries
2013: Awful season due to injuries
2014: Pro Bowl worthy
People who like to shit on JPP enjoy saying "derp but he only derp did it for one year derp". Well he only had one dominant season in '11 but his '12 and '14 were both very strong years for a DE.
This team lacks talent on the defensive side and just giving away JPP would've been an idiotic decision. Franchising him was what I thought we were going to do since the season ended, it made perfect sense.
He had 6.5 sacks in 2012. Not exactly lighting it up. I'm still hesitant calling 2014 a bright year as well considering 75% of it he did not performed up to his full capability. He was clearly absent as a monster pass rusher in that time.
Hopefully those days are behind him and he is completely healthy and motivated. But he has the big dollars now, so, we'll see.
- He came in out of shape after his best season
- He's been injury prone
- The defense has been garbage in each of his five pro seasons (this obviously isn't entirely his fault, but we're talking about paying him cornerstone money here)
Be objective. How many times do big guys get more committed (and healthier) once they get the kind of money JPP figures to get in his next contract?
If I'm an Eagle or Cowboy fan this news makes me happy.
2012: Pro Bowl worthy despite injuries
2013: Awful season due to injuries
2014: Pro Bowl worthy
People who like to shit on JPP enjoy saying "derp but he only derp did it for one year derp". Well he only had one dominant season in '11 but his '12 and '14 were both very strong years for a DE.
This team lacks talent on the defensive side and just giving away JPP would've been an idiotic decision. Franchising him was what I thought we were going to do since the season ended, it made perfect sense.
Agreed...and JPP is only scratching the surface due to a limited football background and he just turned 26...think he deserves a pass for 2013 due to injury...and it looks like he was not 100% until mid 2014...there is not a single DE in the NFL that I would trade JPP for outside of JJ Watt
- He came in out of shape after his best season
- He's been injury prone
- The defense has been garbage in each of his five pro seasons (this obviously isn't entirely his fault, but we're talking about paying him cornerstone money here)
Be objective. How many times do big guys get more committed (and healthier) once they get the kind of money JPP figures to get in his next contract?
If I'm an Eagle or Cowboy fan this news makes me happy.
Good post Terps.
Do you know (or does anyone else) a team can remove the franchise tag? For instance, let's say they did this to buy time to negotiate a longer deal and couldn't come to an agreement. Can they then take the tag away and let him become a FA?
The bad guys stand out over the years. Everyone remembers the HAynesworths but no one ever remembers Justin Tuck. Or Strahan.
The NFL isn't the MLB. In this league you play for pay. If you sulk or suck you lose your job and then you get cut. Say goodbye to that 20 million that is coming to you.
JPP has played through injuries and rarely even misses a game. He's about as safe a bet as you're gonna find. I get the fear factor but you can't live in fear of signing a star player. If you do, you're doomed to suck for a long time.
Yeah, i'm sure Dallas fans are just giddy right now knowing that JPP is still a Giant. The same JPP that knocked Dallas out of the playoffs and lifted NY to the playoffs in 2011.
2011 was not THAT long ago. Neither was 2014. The guy can play.
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There are some question marks though that are unavoidable:
- He came in out of shape after his best season
- He's been injury prone
- The defense has been garbage in each of his five pro seasons (this obviously isn't entirely his fault, but we're talking about paying him cornerstone money here)
Be objective. How many times do big guys get more committed (and healthier) once they get the kind of money JPP figures to get in his next contract?
If I'm an Eagle or Cowboy fan this news makes me happy.
Good post Terps.
Do you know (or does anyone else) a team can remove the franchise tag? For instance, let's say they did this to buy time to negotiate a longer deal and couldn't come to an agreement. Can they then take the tag away and let him become a FA?
That's a good question. I would think they cannot lift the tag unless a deal is reached. If they could lift the tag that would be pretty dooshy and i'm sure the NFLPA would shit sideways if it ever happened. The tag is essentially a one year contract. I guess it could be voided if the player went bat shit crazy but even then it's still a contract.
A belly.
The guy was "fat" in 2011. He might've attempted to put on more weight for 2012, but the difference was never nearly as large as BBI wanted to make it out to be. He clearly lost 10-15 lbs this past year and was in great shape.
Toth. He only had 6.5 sacks in '12 but he was probably the best run defender in football from the DE position that year. He was definitely one of the best DEs in the league despite the sack production.
Now that sack production is why I wouldn't call JPP an "elite" defender. He's just not a great pass rusher which you kind of want from your Franchise DE. But his hustle and run defense are excellent.
People here rave about the Cowboys OL and especially them having a tackle like Tyron Smith. JPP whooped Smith's ass this year. He's a very good player and I'm happy he'll be a Giant again next year.
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In comment 12159673 Go Terps said:
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There are some question marks though that are unavoidable:
- He came in out of shape after his best season
- He's been injury prone
- The defense has been garbage in each of his five pro seasons (this obviously isn't entirely his fault, but we're talking about paying him cornerstone money here)
Be objective. How many times do big guys get more committed (and healthier) once they get the kind of money JPP figures to get in his next contract?
If I'm an Eagle or Cowboy fan this news makes me happy.
Good post Terps.
Do you know (or does anyone else) a team can remove the franchise tag? For instance, let's say they did this to buy time to negotiate a longer deal and couldn't come to an agreement. Can they then take the tag away and let him become a FA?
That's a good question. I would think they cannot lift the tag unless a deal is reached. If they could lift the tag that would be pretty dooshy and i'm sure the NFLPA would shit sideways if it ever happened. The tag is essentially a one year contract. I guess it could be voided if the player went bat shit crazy but even then it's still a contract.
Thanks djm. I would seem unlikely that it could be done, but the way the NFLPA was steamrolled in the last CBA I was curious.
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Ralph Vacchiano @RVacchianoNYDN 9s9 seconds ago
Source says Giants will continue to try and sign JPP long-term after tag, but they're not afraid to let him play out 2015 for $14.813M.
It's been my opinion from the start that the Giants must first decide whether it is worth $ 14.8 m to keep JPP for one year in order to kick start Spags defense. If that works for them then the decision is clear.
The ball is now in JPP's court. If as some folks say "he will be unhappy" and gives a lackadaisical performance he will then make the Giants decision for them, and poison the well with other teams. If he plays lights out he will get a decent long term offer from the Giants and hopefully Spags will win over another keyplayer.
Few businesses are run as poorly as sports teams manage their rosters, and that's never more clear than it is during the NFL free agency period. Teams look for quick fixes and ignore the reality that they are usually paying top dollar for something a player has already accomplished, and not what they figure to accomplish during the life of the contract they are about to dole out.
Why should anyone believe that JPP will stay committed to being in top shape after he is paid, when he couldn't even prove to do it after two seasons of a rookie contract? Why should we believe he will remain healthy as he gets older and plays more games, when he hasn't been consistently healthy to this point?
There just is no objective reason to trust that he will be worth the contract. It's a hard truth that is rarely accepted by fans...money erodes motivation, and there was reason from the beginning to question JPP's motivation to begin with.
Don't think about 2011 JPP, think about 2017 JPP.
Thanks BillT
As I said, there are pros and cons to keeping him. Keeping him allows other players another year to mature. But it's very expensive, and his unhappiness and desire to stay healthy may influence his commitment on the field. I'd lean towards trading him if possible, even though we'd never get 2 #1s in return.
Never gets hurt
Plays cheap
2011 - All Pro Year playing with an in Prime Tuck, Osi and Kiwi
2012 - Injured, out of shape and bad year
2013 - a disgrace (granted recovering from injury)
2014 - Weeks 1-13 - Awful, Weeks 14-17 - All Pro against mediocre competition.
NOT WORTH $15 Million - IMO
Also, if no agreement is reached before the season and he skips training camp I'd expect 2015 to be a complete loss for him and a waste of money for the Giants.
2011 - All Pro Year playing with an in Prime Tuck, Osi and Kiwi
2012 - Injured, out of shape and bad year
2013 - a disgrace (granted recovering from injury)
2014 - Weeks 1-13 - Awful, Weeks 14-17 - All Pro against mediocre competition.
NOT WORTH $15 Million - IMO
Won't even bother with 2012 since so many of you just look at sack totals.
But if you think he was AWFUL in weeks 1-13 you don't know football.
Oh wait I forgot, we are not allowed to credit JPP for his play in 2014 because his sacks came in bunches.
The guy has had a better start to his career than the following NYG legends:
Strahan
Armstead
Why is it a forgone conclusion that JPP is going to regress and get fat and lazy? I look at his 5 year career here and see a lot more good than bad. I don't even see any bad actually. I see one year where the guy was fresh off back surgery yet the guy played early on that year and risked his career just to play.
I think JPP has holes in his game and yes, there's some concern because he has the back but he's now 2 full years and a pro bowl caliber season removed from early 2013.
If you don't want to sign JPP, a guy entering his second contract and his prime, then you really don't want to sign any big time Dlinemen to a big contract. If you do, i'd love to know the guy because that dude must be 100% flawless. And he's playing elsewhere, which means he is not flawless because we don't know how he would play here for the Giants now do we...
Never gets hurt
Plays cheap
More like: Never gets hurt, plays to the level of his pay.
Never gets hurt
Plays cheap
And never ever ever says or does anything even remotely stupid. And he can't be a Giant because NYG players are always flawed and over paid and dangerous and risky.
2011 - All Pro Year playing with an in Prime Tuck, Osi and Kiwi
2012 - Injured, out of shape and bad year
2013 - a disgrace (granted recovering from injury)
2014 - Weeks 1-13 - Awful, Weeks 14-17 - All Pro against mediocre competition.
NOT WORTH $15 Million - IMO
My god you're lost. He had a bad year in 2012? Who says so? You? 2013 he was a disgrace? I've seen disgraceful. That's not it.
2014? WTF...awful? I can't even deal with this shit anymore...it's like watching a monkey fuck a football.
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Dominate
Never gets hurt
Plays cheap
And never ever ever says or does anything even remotely stupid. And he can't be a Giant because NYG players are always flawed and over paid and dangerous and risky.
God forbid a player shows up at a sporting event. We will then question if said player "has his head on straight"
It doesn't have to be anyone expensive, necessarily. It SHOULD be a player(s) that have been deemed to have their best football in front of them. I don't know who those players are, but I'm sure the Giants have scouts and evaluators that do.
There is not a lot of argument at BBI that JPP is the later and if there was, I would disagree.
I don't think Terps is wrong to be concerned with the amount of money we are locking up into JPP this year. But i also don't see what the alternative was because we couldn't let him walk.
I actually like this a lot better than signing JPP to a long term deal for $14m. I'd rather be handcuffed and let him play out this year and give the guys around him another year to grow. But then again, I am in the minority perhaps and do not think the Giants are close heading into next year.
The Giants and JPP, if they agree to terms, will likely agree to something at the high end of this list and... dare I say it, why shouldn't they pay him that? Consider his ceiling and look at other DEs numbers, compared to his.
JPP - UFA ($4M 2014 cap hit) (77 tackles, 12.5 sacks, 3 FF)
Mario Williams - $16M (42 tackles (14.5 sacks, 2 FF)
Robert Quinn - $14.2M (46 tackles, 10.5 sacks, 5 FF)
Greg Hardy - UFA ($13.1M 2014 cap hit) (Played 1 game in 2014)
Charles Johnson - $12.6M (41 tackles, 8.5 sacks, 3 FF)
Trent Cole - $12.1M (52 tackles, 6.5 sacks, 3 FF)
Chris Long - $12.1M (Played 1 game in 2014)
Calais Campbell - $11M (58 tackles, 7 sacks)
Junior Galette - $10.375M (45 tackles, 10 sacks, 3 FF)
Well, that is $15 million of cap space gone..
It doesn't have to be anyone expensive, necessarily. It SHOULD be a player(s) that have been deemed to have their best football in front of them. I don't know who those players are, but I'm sure the Giants have scouts and evaluators that do.
You aren't finding many of those guys on the open market. And if you do, you're gonna have to over pay.
We signed a guy like that once or twice. Canty comes to mind--and he ending up costing us a small fortune. We also signed DRC who was sort of just about to enter his prime---again small fortune.
JPP is a Giant. He's flourished here. He's a known commodity. Of course you have to be reasonable and can't spoil the plan just for the sake of signing this guy long term but if you don't sign a guy like JPP, only now entering into his prime and playing a premium position, you might as well just rebuild. And even then, i'd keep JPP because rebuilding still requires talent on the roster to build around.
Signing JPP is a necessary evil. You aren't getting some young ascending pass-rusher for cheap in today's NFL. That's a pipe dream. Go try and sign a guy like McPhee from the Ravens--a guy I like, and see how much he costs.
Hey I have no particular dislike for JPP. Just calling it like I see it.
JPP shit all over some of the best left tackles in the NFL this past season and he played like a God in the 2011 postseason. The guy can play. We know that.
What concerns me is that he did show up out of shape one year, and has had back problems, including surgery. It also costs nearly $15M to keep him, all of which counts against this year's cap, and he may be unhappy the whole year. Just see what the FA market is for his services. He can still negotiate with other teams. We'll know more in a few days.
But, if he's worried about his back, then maybe he does want to sign a long term deal and take a larger pay day now.
Hopefully they'll work out their differences and get something done so we aren't stuck with a 15 mil in cap space for 2015.
But more than a few posters are saying to let this guy walk without much of a fight. That's nonsense.
Well, that is $15 million of cap space gone..
JJ Watt had 13 sacks against: Wash, NYG, Ten, Clev, Jax.
What was it you were saying about "poor competition"?
I don't want to keep JPP at one more year for 15 per. I think that's counterproductive. I can see why they tagged him but I really hope a long term deal is reached. Fuck this 15 mill cap hit.
And who do you think JPP is? There isn't any way in Haitis another team would sign him and give up (2) 1st rounders plus pay his price! I truly question if he is worth the $15M, call me lame-crazy-ill informed! JMHO.
Want to win the East? Beat up on the bad teams. Feast on the weak.
So yeah...keep on beating that drum.
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There are some question marks though that are unavoidable:
- He came in out of shape after his best season
- He's been injury prone
- The defense has been garbage in each of his five pro seasons (this obviously isn't entirely his fault, but we're talking about paying him cornerstone money here)
Be objective. How many times do big guys get more committed (and healthier) once they get the kind of money JPP figures to get in his next contract?
If I'm an Eagle or Cowboy fan this news makes me happy.
Good post Terps.
Do you know (or does anyone else) a team can remove the franchise tag? For instance, let's say they did this to buy time to negotiate a longer deal and couldn't come to an agreement. Can they then take the tag away and let him become a FA?
No.
New York Giants Designate Jason Pierre-Paul Franchise Player - ( New Window )
And I think the Giants took a half measure in tagging him. In doing so I think they've tipped their hand about their reservations over a market rate contract as well as risked alienating the player and hurting the 2015 season.
These things rarely end well.
And I think the Giants took a half measure in tagging him. In doing so I think they've tipped their hand about their reservations over a market rate contract as well as risked alienating the player and hurting the 2015 season.
These things rarely end well.
Valid points!
AcidTest : 3:16 pm : link : reply
Giants may think he'll lower his contract demands rather than risk playing an entire season with no guaranteed money.
Well, he can step off a curb, once he signs it, because that 15M is guaranteed....
They get, basically, 2 low second round draft picks for him....not a bad deal for a contender....
I'm not sure what the alternative here is. The Giants made the best move at this time. If he walks, the get two #1s.
It's strange- The argument is that we don't know if we'll get sufficient ROI, but somehow the draft/free agency carries no risk? I don't get it.
I'm not sure why anyone here is shocked about any of this.
AcidTest : 3:16 pm : link : reply
Giants may think he'll lower his contract demands rather than risk playing an entire season with no guaranteed money.
Well, he can step off a curb, once he signs it, because that 15M is guaranteed....
Good point. The $15M is guaranteed once he signs it. An injury would hurt his ability to get additional guaranteed money in his next contract, but the entire $15M is guaranteed.
Hey I have no particular dislike for JPP. Just calling it like I see it.
I disagree with the assumption that the Giants used the franchise tag because they were far apart. Past history has shown that the team has been able to come to terms with a player after franchising him so why is this case different?
By the time this gets resolved, all the best players may well be gone. Best case scenario, he gets more realistic sense of his value and signs and Giants may be able to sign something form the leftovers. Worst case scenario - JPP plays one more year limiting their ability to make moves, then walks away next year - impacting two off-seasons of rebuilding. Keeping in mind the shelf life left on Eli.
Not sure there was a good resolution to the JPP issue.
They haven't risked anything about 2015. Not yet, anyway. It's March 2nd.
If they don't sign him to a long term deal and they let him play on the FT? Yep, that could very well be an issue.
But if they sign him to a long term deal, then he'll be all forgiving...
I'm not sure what the alternative here is. The Giants made the best move at this time. If he walks, the get two #1s.
It's strange- The argument is that we don't know if we'll get sufficient ROI, but somehow the draft/free agency carries no risk? I don't get it.
I'm not sure why anyone here is shocked about any of this.
I'm not shocked by any of this, I just think it's a mistake.
And we all know we aren't going to be getting two number ones. Instead we're going to get a potentially unhappy player at a $15 million cap hit in 2015.
And of course any other free agent or draft pick is going to be an unknown quantity to an extent. My point is simply that JPP is as well known a quantity as you can expect to have, and I don't value that quantity the same way the Giants do. Not even close.
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In comment 12159673 Go Terps said:
Quote:
There are some question marks though that are unavoidable:
- He came in out of shape after his best season
- He's been injury prone
- The defense has been garbage in each of his five pro seasons (this obviously isn't entirely his fault, but we're talking about paying him cornerstone money here)
Be objective. How many times do big guys get more committed (and healthier) once they get the kind of money JPP figures to get in his next contract?
If I'm an Eagle or Cowboy fan this news makes me happy.
Good post Terps.
Do you know (or does anyone else) a team can remove the franchise tag? For instance, let's say they did this to buy time to negotiate a longer deal and couldn't come to an agreement. Can they then take the tag away and let him become a FA?
No.
Yes. If the franchise tag has not yet been signed it can be removed.
Look. I'm going to have an unpopular opinion here but with all of the pro-JPP talk this stuff needs to be said.
1) The guy has a chronic bad back. Are we looking to lock a guy up for one of the richest contracts in NFL history with a known issue?
2) The guy is a little immature (see Prince incident).
3) The guy has in the past reported to camp out of shape. Last year was a CONTRACT year and he still wasn't in the condition he was when he was drafted.
4) The guy is an top end pass rusher when he isn't the focus of an opposing OL and a MEDIOCRE run stuffer. This BS I read about him being so stout against the run like Strahan is BS. PLENTY of times the opponent ran right at him and he got blown off the ball or got lost on a pass rush as the back scooted past him.
5) He had to be taken off the field due to injury at least 6 times last year. Now some times he came back but it's just not a good indication of a reliable sturdy player.
What I am saying is this. He isn't a game changer like Watt or even Suh.
In my opinion, JPP is a slightly above average DE who doesn't excel against stiff competition.
That's why the franchise tag is perfect for him. Yes it's a big hit this year on the cap but he's still young. If he wants it, then let him prove me wrong. If he has 16 sacks and an all pro year then pay the dude. Last year was a chance for him in a contract year to play lights out. He played OK. That's it. OK.
If he wants security this year I offer him a deal like Linval got from the vikes- 6 years 30 million or something along those lines with some of it being incentive based. Take it, or play on the tag.
the injury thing is what concerns me the most. everyone gets hurt in the league, but is this going to be a chronic issue.
if you remove him from the team, who do you replace him with?
the answer is not on the roster and not probably not available for less in free agency (assuming JPP is extended).
The Giants are a worse team without him and the player who could be added to make them as good or better is non-existent.
Absolute BS about him not being good against the run. he is at the top of the list when it comes to run defense. Yes, he has trouble containing QB who weight 60lbs less than him - as does every single DE.
He is a 25 year old top level DE - who do you even try and replace him with. 2 marginal guys at less price gets you 2 players on Kiwi level - nothing
This is a classic damned if you do damned if you don't scenario. There is no easy slam dunk answer. Letting a 26 year old star DE walk for nothing can get people fired. Signing the guy and watching him struggle or get hurt can do the same.
I'm sure many will be around here saying I told you so if something goes wrong but to sit here and proclaim that this is an easy call is laughable. I'd hate to be Reese right now. I still think the best move is to keep the good player right here. IF JPP was 32 i'd think otherwise but he's not 32. And he's coming off a very very good season.
The franchise tag is only a useful negotiating tool with a handful of players. Most guys would jump at a franchise tag salary because most guys aren't worth that much and will never see that much. The FT is a good negotiating tactic for the Giants because they could probably live with it more easily than the player can. Meanwhile they get extra time to negotiate and maybe they make the player feel the team is "serious" about not meeting his initial demand and he begins to be amenable to a lower number. Meanwhile of course, the Giants can listen to any trade offers that come their way but no team can afford the two picks plus the big money so JPP can't get a genuine feel for how much he might be offered on the open market. And the idea that JPP would tank the season out of pique sounds ridiculous to me. He'd hurt himself at least as much as he'd hurt the Giants.
if you remove him from the team, who do you replace him with?
the answer is not on the roster and not probably not available for less in free agency (assuming JPP is extended).
The Giants are a worse team without him and the player who could be added to make them as good or better is non-existent.
Factor in that the coach who is pretty much in a win now mode wants the player back this was a must move.
Guys like Jared Allen got $12.5 Million and he is pretty much done. DeMarcus Ware got about $9M and he is done. If you want talent you have to pay for it. Even Tuck is signed for $5M. These guys are washed up.
Hopefully we sign a longer term deal in the $10-$12M a year range but when you look at other players at the position thats what he is worth. The Giants dont let a lot fo talent out the door unless there is a clear replacement on the roster which they have done at the DT position. There is no clear replacement on the roster and a rookie is not going to have an immediate impact. This was a must move with the situation the coaching staff is in.
If JPP walked, the Giants would only have a shot at Suh. There is really no practical way the Gmen could go for Suh.
Factor in that the coach who is pretty much in a win now mode wants the player back this was a must move.
Guys like Jared Allen got $12.5 Million and he is pretty much done. DeMarcus Ware got about $9M and he is done. If you want talent you have to pay for it. Even Tuck is signed for $5M. These guys are washed up.
Hopefully we sign a longer term deal in the $10-$12M a year range but when you look at other players at the position thats what he is worth. The Giants dont let a lot fo talent out the door unless there is a clear replacement on the roster which they have done at the DT position. There is no clear replacement on the roster and a rookie is not going to have an immediate impact. This was a must move with the situation the coaching staff is in.
If the Giants are making personnel decisions with major long-term consequences because the coach is in "win-now" mode, they're not a very well run organization.
If they can't work anything reasonable out with Pierre-Paul, they shouldn't waste everybody's time and money holding him to the Tag contract. The smart move is to trade him to somebody who will his demands (or, absent decent trade offers, rescind the Tag and collect the comp pick in 2016), and invest that cap space in assets that have value beyond 2015. Absent appropriate FAs to sign, it's laughably easy to shift cap room from year-to-year. Just structure Eli's extension with heavy cap impact in year 1 and more lenient cap hits in 2016-18.
He can visit whoever he wants....get the best deal, and the Giants have to match it.....the question remains though, can he hold out until after the draft by not signing the deal? If he can, this really screws the Giants....it throws any plans they have into the air....
I seriously doubt he would sign it, and play one year and do this all over again....of course, if he has a bad/average year(due to playing it safe), I doubt the Giants would franchise him again....