Schefter expects Giants to make a run at Ndamukong Suh

I'm ok with him playing out the tender as well, I think we have a similar sense of him as the team, at the moment (granted with a lot less facts).

Then 44mill under in 2016. NYG comparatively is at about the same with the JPP tag now and then 84mill under next year.

I could definitely see the Giants using this as leverage for JPP but I could also see them making a run at Suh too.

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write it down.

In comment 12161488 JonC said:

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write it down.

Was the reported interest in Haynesworth not real?

was the BIG NYG numbers being floated in the media were put out there by AH's agent, but the actual offer Reese made was somewhere in the $40-50M range.

In comment 12161476 robrosz said:

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I wonder if his sources is schefter.

In comment 12161495 JonC said:

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was the BIG NYG numbers being floated in the media were put out there by AH's agent, but the actual offer Reese made was somewhere in the $40-50M range.

I heard "at least 50M" too from someone with firsthand knowledge. Haynesworth though reported the Giants 80M offer AFTER he signed with Washington, and I don't recall it being floated before, but regardless the Giants were prepared to offer a ton of money to Haynesworth and there is good reason to believe they're prepared to do the same with Suh.

NYG isn't paying that money to a DT, so he needs to set his sights much lower in order to make it happen.

In comment 12161491 chris r said:

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In comment 12161488 JonC said: Quote: write it down. Was the reported interest in Haynesworth not real?

From the article:

But there is no doubt some in the Giants organization view Suh, who had 8 ½ sacks last season, to be just as much of a game-changer on defense as a top defensive end. With a healthy Pierre-Paul at one end and Suh and an emerging Johnathan Hankins in the middle, new defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo would have three-fourths of a dangerous front line.

If he really wants to play in NY for marketing purposes as has been reported this may not be out of the realm of possibility.

I think Mook hit on it earlier. JPP's numbers at the end of the year are inflated similiar to Tuck's were the year prior. During the year when we needed it most he was mostly a non factor. Could this be leverage yes, could the Giants have an interest yes, and I believe they do have interest. What they have to decide is that given his injury history and habit of taking of some plays how much of an investment is JPP worth, and I'm sure as with any player he thinks he's worth more than the FO does. Would it shock me to see Suh and JPP, to a degree as I think it's likely one or the other not both.. I personally think Suh is the higher impact player and would help us more in the long run even if he costs more.

/reality check

In comment 12161540 Torrag said:

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/reality check

Not at all. Why?

The Giants have 11M in cap space. they can get that contract done for much less than 11M cap space in year 1, plus they can extend Eli, JPP, and Prince - or any of the three and clear more room if they want.

They're not likely to sign Suh IMO, but cap room today isn't the reason.

seems ridiculously flimsy.

You can become a huge star without playing in New York.

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In comment 12161549 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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seems ridiculously flimsy. You can become a huge star without playing in New York.

You can, but playing in New York does give you a big advantage. Think Michael Strahan lands the gigs he has now playing in Denver?

You're aware of our roster and it's resemblance to a certain cheese from Switzerland? Too many holes to fill to give one player that size chunk...imo.

still doable (although as I said unlikely).

If you consider Cruz got 15M guaranteed on a 6 year deal, and cost 2.5M on the cap year 1 on the cap, extrapolate it out to 50M guaranteed and it's doable for Suh for around 8.5M on the cap in year 1.

with the cap escalating and the Giants space opening up, not having the cap room isn't why they won't do this IMO.

that's a whole other time zone for contract demands. Frankly he's worth a boatload. He's a great player. We've got to get our house in order. That requires smart allocation of resources.

"highest paid" is bogus anyway. Throw an extra year on the deal with a non-guaranteed $25M base salary and he can claim he's the highest paid (if that's important).

Similarly, lot's of ways to inflate JPP's eventual contract that keep the "real" value more in line with what the Giants front office wants or to allow them to hedge against injuries/poor play (e.g. large roster bonuses in years 3-4-5).

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look at the details of Robert Quinn's contract. He technically has over $41M in guaranteed money, but >$18M was in roster bonuses. Had he gotten hurt last year, they could've cut him with little dead money (~$4M). If he blows out his knee this year, they could cut him next offseason for <$3M in dead money. So the money isn't really "guaranteed"

In comment 12161555 MookGiants said:

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In comment 12161549 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: seems ridiculously flimsy. You can become a huge star without playing in New York. You can, but playing in New York does give you a big advantage. Think Michael Strahan lands the gigs he has now playing in Denver?

This

number is out there IMO because that's what McCoy got a year ago.

(52M guaranteed).

I think Suh is comparable, but not every team has to spend money the way TB did/does.

And get both of these guys around 10 or a little over 10 a year.. do it, watch our D go from bottom tier to elite status, windows closing, time to make one final push

is the kind of player where a bunch of people trash him while it's clear it's a remote possibility, and then 99% of BBI shoots of champagne should it happen.

In comment 12161668 DanMetroMan said:

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is the kind of player where a bunch of people trash him while it's clear it's a remote possibility, and then 99% of BBI shoots of champagne should it happen.

...or flip the fuck out when Cowboys, Eagles or Redskins sign him for the same money everyone deemed so ridiculous for us to spend.

have any said anything bad about Suh?

So, I think it's 99% of people would love if the Giants signed him, but 75% of the people realize it's highly unlikely.

but the Nebraska Texas Big 12 title game when Suh was a senior at Nebraska might be the best defensive performance by an individual I've seen in college football. Even though his team lost.

It was like Charles Jefferson against Lincoln in Fast Times at Ridgemont High.

whether we win the bidding for his services or not is a different story. Going to be an exciting March. We are going to get some decent players in here to complement our core. If we're fortunate maybe a player like Suh that becomes core too.

is being used to leverage a deal from jpp i hope the FA they spend thier money on are mccourty,franklin/iupati and jerry hughes who could all be had combined for less than suh would cost and would improve them more

In comment 12160571 Damon said:

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To sign.

Yup... smokescreen . .

Next topic .

going to be used for leverage with JPP?

He simply has to sign his FT and the Giants owe him 15M guaranteed.

On top of the 17M he's already earned, that's more money than most of you will earn in a life time.

So because the Giants are rumored to have interest in Suh, it gives them leverage against JPP how?

up above.

In comment 12161212 Curtis in VA said:

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And for those who like to point out how Reese went after Haynesworth, how did that turn out for the team that landed him? A great example of why these things never work out.

Amazing logic, I can't even begin to point out everything wrong with this statement lol

In comment 12161873 cvicszasz said:

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In comment 12160571 Damon said: Quote: To sign. Yup... smokescreen . . Next topic .

cvics, Do you know this for sure?

We were close to getting Reggie White, Suh is the best DL since White. He's the most valuable non-QB in the league. I'd love to see Suh playing for NYG.

In comment 12161903 JonC said:

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up above.

I guess, but not sure I buy that. the FT is worse for the team that it is the player. historically I wonder how many guys who play on the FT, how many are back with their same team the next year.

if the Giants are prepared to pay JPP 25M - 30M guaranteed paying him 15M this year on the tag just doesn't make sense.

I believe they used it to buy time to get a deal worked out. and if they don't it's one year and gone for JPP.

And i don't have an issue with him playing one year on the tag and then leaving, but my point is if the Giants do in fact want JPP long-term having him play on the tag this year doesn't make sense.

I used the Welker parallel because it was very public up here how those negotiations went. People will forget about it now (up here in Boston) because they won a title, but last year when Welker was good and Ammendola not so good, it was all over the radio and how Kraft/Belichick let the bad blood they had for Welker playing on the tag cloud the negotiations the next year.

just my opinion.

And that says nothing about how I feel JPP is NOT easily replaceable.

They want a longer term deal they can live with, and they're unwilling to risk letting him go without compensation. It's really that simple right now, imv. Leaking interest in Suh or other is just a nudge to assist in moving negotiations forward.

In comment 12162397 JonC said:

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They want a longer term deal they can live with, and they're unwilling to risk letting him go without compensation. It's really that simple right now, imv. Leaking interest in Suh or other is just a nudge to assist in moving negotiations forward.

agree with all that and have said as much, other than I still don't see how leaking anything about the Giants and Suh motivates me and certainly doesn't add leverage if I am JPP and his agent to get a LT deal done.

It has zero impact if I am their camp. If the Giants don't pay JPP what he wants, he'll get it elsewhere. and be richer for it, since he's getting 15M for this year. He obviously has injury risk which is worth something, but probably not that much when you've made 34M dollars already compared to say a 5th round pick who played on a rookie deal.

If they won't settle for anything less than market dollars, so be it. In the meantime, this is the game ...

and teams are not beyond doing this, but I believe linking a possible Giants interest in Suh as a ploy to affect the JPP negotiations is a stretch and a BBI theory only..

note the timing of the Tag and the "leak".

In comment 12162430 JonC said:

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note the timing of the Tag and the "leak".

Still a stretch in this case..

Imho

In comment 12162430 JonC said:

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note the timing of the Tag and the "leak".

I'd 100% believe it if JPP had not been franchised. Once they franchise him, if they negotiate with Suh, JPP and his camp don't care IMO. They're getting 15M for one year and then next year they go elswhere and get a new 6 year 65M contract with 25M guaranteed. And then he's at 40M guaranteed over 7 years.

That's the only thing I find makes the theory in this case not plausible.

Perhaps, NYG capology has a scenario mapped outwhere they make a move to re-sign JPP and offer Suh, both $12M per ... if both are open to compromise in order to play in the NY market, and both believe they can win SB's here ... perhaps both put their money where their mouth is and sign.

Stranger things have happened, though it's probably less than 50/50 shot.

Also, note the timing of all the roster/cap moves in Philly. You can bet your arse Philly is positioning for UFA, word tends to get around the back channels (agents) as to targets etc. NYG could be both angling for UFAs and simultaneously try to drive up the price on Suh for Philly, eg.

is sitting pretty with nearly 15 mill in the bank and a possible 17-18 mill to look forward to if we franchise him again next year(I believe a zero chance of that happening) or he walks to very receptive deep pockets..

A Suh rumor/leak isn't going to move him and his Agent one iota, imo..The Agent takes that(if true) for what it is, a ploy

what PJ said

If the singular goal is top market dollars, then you're right, there's no shot.

But, if the goal includes playing in the NY market, believing a SB win is within reach, and recognizing all the other $ opportunities in NY, then perhaps compromise is feasible.

Cruz did exactly that, after protracted negotiations that also touched the media, etc.

he was playing on the RFA tag, so 2.2M and was a UDFA who had not earned 17M already.

He was as eager as the Giants to get something done.

Once the Giants let him sit as an RFA and gauged the interest league wide, Cruz didn't have much choice if he wanted any financial security. And I think his injury this year if anything proves he was justified.

Don't forget JPP was the last of the old CBA, so his deal wasn't like today's first round player. As a comparison, Ryan Shazier, the 15th pick last year got 9.5M for his 4 year deal, JPP got 17M for his 5 year deal.