Schefter expects Giants to make a run at Ndamukong Suh

because with that $14m cap hit, I think it would be near impossible to sign such a high-priced FA.

it. They have about $7M in cap space after cutting Walton for FAs (and in-season space), when you account for the draft pool, right now and they have holes -- at least in terms of quality, not just having warm bodies -- in a lot of places.

They're not just one top-level piece away from being a true contender, worth somehow shuffling everything and perhaps mortgaging whatever they have to to make it happen, either.

not surprised at this..

Obviously he is a great player (despite the on field issues at times) but I just don't see Reese spending that kind of money, especially with Pierre-Paul and Manning contracts currently in limbo.

I'd be pretty quick to dismiss this report but usually Schefter is pretty keyed in and has some good info.

I'd still be pretty surprised if this were true. Maybe it is just Reese doing his due diligence on all free agents like he tends to do.

Has been that the Raiders with all of their room under the salary cap will make a sweet offer to him.

did go after Haynesworth, but that was before we became the team of team captains. Suh is a head case, and unless the salary cap is $300M, unaffordable.

at least in talking figures and seeing if it would fit, if not making an aggressive run at him. He's one of the best players in the league at his position, he's in his prime and the Giants could use more help on the d-line. They always talk about how the game is won in the trenches and if you have JPP, Suh and Hankins, 3 of your 4 starting d-linemen are fantastic. It improves the whole defense and probably lets them gamble on some high potential guys at the other DE spot. The Giants have to get the pass rush going if they want to win another super bowl anytime soon. It starts on the line. So yeah, I'll be floored if they aren't exploring it at the very least.

with how Jet heavy that show is.

let it happen,Suh and the Giants to the Super Bowl

and his 2015 money is restructured for future years

.

Eli has how many years left? Barring injury....
Why would you not make a serious attempt to get a dominate defensive player who coupled with JPP could spell lights out for many opposing teams!!

The encouraged pick at that point would be WR. On defense a safety would be priority as well but you could concentrate on talent and not push for anyone.

Even his speculation is lame. Go after him but not seriously. What does that even mean and when do the Giants do that.

I don't dismiss this completely is the Dallas OL. I'd imagine Martin, Fredericks and Co. will weigh heavily on the minds of our decision-makers this offseason.

is a legitimate game changer. If we can make the salary fit I think it's a very logical move.

11 times out of 10

They decide that they can't reach agreement with JPP or another team steps up and offers two #1 picks...and decide to trade JPP for picks and decide to sign Suh for an expensive contract...Definitely in the realm of possibility...and as someone noted above..."We investigate everything"

Because there's no way in the world they can fit him in under the cap.

Philly.

Still not happening. Priorities on the OL and at safety. Can't sign everyone.

but I guarantee you they'll figure out a way to make a competitive offer, as will other cap-strapped teams. I hope we do, too.

him at this point.

In fact, the only slightly outside shot (and it's incredibly slight) is to give JPP a new contract and hope it creates enough [short-term cap] room.

we go

and something eventually sticks

I won't be mad at all. Haven't we all learned 1 thing over the past 7 years!! winning the Super Bowl can help you withstand a few shitty seasons in between. Make moves to win now!

player with his nastiness (some might call it dirty) on our defense.

cause I dont see money getting it done..

In comment 12160254 Dave in Hoboken said:

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with how Jet heavy that show is.

Dave - been a long time. Anyway, Rothenberg and LaGrecca are both Giant fans. I know this because they are also Mets fans and Kay asked would they take a Giant Superbowl or 5 World Series in a row for the Mets (they both went Giants btw)

In comment 12160234 Stupendamatic said:

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because with that $14m cap hit, I think it would be near impossible to sign such a high-priced FA.

Well, aside from that thing where 95% or more of BBIers really have no idea what the Giants can or cannot do. And less really know the cap numbers nor overall intentions of the team.

So, there's that.

we should sign Suh cause that would give us one hell of a starting DL and would really help Spags whose defense keys off of pass rush. Suh has been healthy during his career and yes he is a head case but he can also play.

A pass rush fixes many a woe.

But we dont have the money like the jags, raiders, or even jets. Doesn't matter how many restructed contracts or paycuts the NYG can get done. We just wont be able to put together a deal like other teams with more cap space can IMO.

Hankins and JPP is a hell of a start to a good defense.

We are a much more attractive option then the Jets. We also did offer Haynesworth an insane amount of money. Please Jerry sign Ndamukong. A line with JPP, Suh, Hankins & Ayers/Moore would be disgusting.

the Giants have is Suh wants to play here.

agree with you, but it's more fun to read those that don't have a clue write what they know for sure

In comment 12160329 Eric from BBI said:

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the Giants have is Suh wants to play here.

Eric, do we know that for sure? Or did he (or his agent) say that just to not rule out a club? The more potential bidders, the higher the price goes...

are historically low. this year isn't the issue. it's future years when all the salary escalation kicks in that's the issue. When Prince's/JPP's salary is escalating, and Eli is costing a fortune, and OBJ is getting his second contract.

They'll pay him what he wants

That may be true but money will be the final factor IMO.

Giant Blue. Never happen though. The money would just not be there.
Eric, does Suh want to come here as in The Giants, or here as in New York? Because the Jets have more cash.

In comment 12160329 Eric from BBI said:

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the Giants have is Suh wants to play here.

I know you won't reveal your inside sources on this but Suh said he wanted to explore marketing opportunities in NY and that was one of the reasons.

He also has the Nebraska connection (Prince) and the Roc Nation connection (Cruz)

it work in the cap, this is a move you make. It's not some lazy SOB Albert Haynesworth. This is Ndamukong Suh, one of the hardest working players on that Lions team. Yes he's a scumbag and dirty player but to be honest our defense needs some of it. We get run over every other week and half of our defensive players seem to not mind.

Ways we can open up more money could be done by cutting and or working on Beasons contract. Extending Eli and Prince.. and working out a long term deal with JPP. If we do all of that we could afford Suh and have some money to fill out the roster with some average/good players (think Ayers last year as an example) for low cost after the first wave of FA

Who would wear number 90? JPP or Suh?

If the Giants do work out a deal with Suh, they'll let JPP go.

possible you get both JPP and Suh for $10 million each. I don’t think it is a wise way to spend money, but, since Giants are always butted up against the cap without consistent success, why not?

In comment 12160336 speedywheels said:

Quote:

In comment 12160329 Eric from BBI said: Quote: the Giants have is Suh wants to play here. Eric, do we know that for sure? Or did he (or his agent) say that just to not rule out a club? The more potential bidders, the higher the price goes...

He wants to improve his brand and more marketing opportunities.
Report on Suh wanting to play in NY - ( New Window )

.

and Suh would laugh at it.

In comment 12160356 sober297 said:

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possible you get both JPP and Suh for $10 million each. I don’t think it is a wise way to spend money, but, since Giants are always butted up against the cap without consistent success, why not?

LOL ten million a piece ??!!!!!!


Suh wants JJ Watt money.. which is around 16.6 per year annual value..

In comment 12160359 blueblood said:

Quote:

In comment 12160336 speedywheels said: Quote: In comment 12160329 Eric from BBI said: Quote: the Giants have is Suh wants to play here. Eric, do we know that for sure? Or did he (or his agent) say that just to not rule out a club? The more potential bidders, the higher the price goes... He wants to improve his brand and more marketing opportunities. Report on Suh wanting to play in NY - ( New Window )

Thanks, blueblood...

they can re-structure Manning.

In comment 12160365 Eric from BBI said:

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they can re-structure Manning.

Isn't he in the final year of his deal? I though they could not restructure, only extend.

In comment 12160355 Ira said:

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If the Giants do work out a deal with Suh, they'll let JPP go.

If JPP signs the FT, they won't be able to let him go. And with the steep price for other teams to sign JPP ($$$, plus the draft picks), it's pretty unlikely some team will do that...

that's what I meant. They can basically significant reduce Eli's cap number this year.

In comment 12160368 Eric from BBI said:

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that's what I meant. They can basically significant reduce Eli's cap number this year.

Yeah, if these rumors are true it seems like they might be considering that.

I think Suh gets a deal similar to Gerald McCoy. McCoy signed a 7 year 95M, 51M guaranteed.

I'd be surprised if the Giants can can put together a contract like that even without restructuring Eli.

contract like that without extending Eli lowering his cap number. Even with extending Eli it would be hard to see.

In comment 12160368 Eric from BBI said:

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that's what I meant. They can basically significant reduce Eli's cap number this year.

True but I dont see a SuH signing down the line. However that being said the cap is supposed to go up another big bump next year...

But I dont see them going out and spending huge money on SuH.. I can see then going out and getting a OL and Safety

I can't imagine it can be done without serious cap ramifications down the road.

OL and S or Suh, I will take Suh every time.

In comment 12160382 GiantsFan84 said:

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I can't imagine it can be done without serious cap ramifications down the road.

The cap just increased $10 million and will likely increase by $10 million per year for a while.

If he signed for $16 million per year, you can almost think of it as $6 million against the current cap b/c of the $10 million dollar increase and a $4 million dollar surplus after two years of cap increase at approx $20 million total.

The numbers aren't too crazy being both the cap is increasing and it's mandatory to spend up to 89% of the cap. If you have to spend up to 89% of the cap, buying the best DT in football rather than multiple mediocre players isn't too crazy.

In comment 12160368 Eric from BBI said:

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that's what I meant. They can basically significant reduce Eli's cap number this year.

If signing Suh is really something that's being kicked around by the front office, don't we have to hurry up with regard to restructuring Eli? It's not like we can sign Suh to the contract he wants if it puts us over the cap, then deal with Eli to put ourselves back under later on.

in Free Agency, teams should find their top 3 salaries to be less than 30% of the total cap. Including JPP's new number of $14.81MM, and combined with (according to BBI salary page) Eli's $17MM and Amukamara's $6.89MM, the Giants currently have 27% of the total 2015 cap ($143.2MM) tied up in their top three contracts.

I have no doubts giants defense is a top 10 d

A line of jpp suh and hankins goes along way in helping us get back to the playoffs especially since we are going to have to go through Dallas's oline

Thanks for sharing that info

In comment 12160284 Devon said:

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him at this point. In fact, the only slightly outside shot (and it's incredibly slight) is to give JPP a new contract and hope it creates enough [short-term cap] room.

I think the JPP tag is a Make or Break type of deal. If he gets injured again or has poor play, then the Giants might let him walk and draft or sign a replacement.

until a player signs it.

In comment 12160280 aimrocky said:

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Philly.

You shut your whore mouth!

he didn't know JPP just got tagged.

It would be quite the feat to pull this off. But a DT duo of Hankins and Suh would be impossible to run on and with edge rushers of JPP and Ayers along with the backups, we would have solved our defensive issues. No doubt that would probably mean we aren't inking any other free agents and Rolle will be history. On the other hand, with a defensive line like that, we can probably get by with mediocre dbs just like in the LT days with Toast and Perry Williams or draft a cb/s in the first after a trade down scenario. If Mariotta lasts past Tenn and the jets, Philly may be willing to do the deal. This would also increase the likelihood we fix the OL with our first pick, whether that be Scherff, Collins, or Peat.

They are extremely rare and arguably have more value than a great DE. With Spags back the focus will shift more back to the DL (as it looked like they tried to beef up the secondary for Fewell schemes).

As some posters have been saying, Giants have a ton of future cap room after this year ($84 mill in 2016-17) and ways to make some more room this year (with restructures ,further cuts etc.).

Strategically structured incoming FA contracts with low first year hits (w/ bigger cap money year 2 and beyond) are not un-common in today's NFL and they could allow them to do more than what it looks on the surface.

other playing in FA or the Draft that could impact our defense like Suh can. He can literally jump our defense 10+ spots in ranking. Remember the Giants have the 5th most cap space in all of football next offseason with 83 Million dollars to spend. Yes that's largely in part because Eli is off the books that seaaon but the teams that are ahead of the Giants in cap space also have QB's that would be off the books/low costing QBs (Chargers, Colts, Raiders and Bengals). We could structure Suh's deal to have a much bigger cap hit next year and a smaller hit this year

other player*

Makes sense if they can free up some money with an Eli extension.

There are so many variables with our cap space that none of us can even remotely predict. If the Giants really wanted Suh, I'd bet they can figure out a way to get it done, and probably fill more holes.

How many times over the years do we think we have no cap space, then manage to move money or do something none of us would even understand to free up space for a signing? All the time.

if you take something close to Watts contract, Let's say 6 year 100 mill with 50 guaranteed.

You amortize the guaranteed money over the life of the contract.

So if you make year 1 a low salary of 500K: year 1's cap hit would be 50MM/6 + 500K or a little under 9 million for year 1.

Add in an Eli restructure, Beason restructure, and other possibilities like Prince signed long-term with any other incoming FA's obviously on much smaller deals (with cap friendly first years) it may be doable even without JPP signing longterm.

But that guy would do wonders for this D. He is a dirty player and a bit crazy, but I never viewed him as a bad guy. I would love to see a guy that wants to kill the opposing qb. He is a rare player.

a lot of moving parts needed to get Suh signed. In addition to the holes at safety, linebacker and guard that will Giants will probably have to use low cost veterans or rookies to fill. The JD Walton thread has several guys in it killing Reese for signing him and Charles Brown. If the Giants get Suh, then expect more signings like that to fill out the roster around him.

It would totally change this defense, and with our offensive potential we'd be SB contenders. You extend Eli to do this; you cut other players if need be...you go all in.

In comment 12160474 Semipro Lineman said:

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a lot of moving parts needed to get Suh signed. In addition to the holes at safety, linebacker and guard that will Giants will probably have to use low cost veterans or rookies to fill. The JD Walton thread has several guys in it killing Reese for signing him and Charles Brown. If the Giants get Suh, then expect more signings like that to fill out the roster around him.

It may be a lot of moving parts but these are moves the Giants have to make at one point anyway, so why not make them now? Eli need's his extension, Prince needs his extension. JPP either needs an extension or you let him play out the franchise tag and Beason needs a flat out paycut

while bringing in another group of late FAs on one year "make it" contracts.

Let's say Orlando Franklin would sign for around 5yr/25mill with 10 guaranteed

year 1 salary: 500K + 2 mill (amortized gauranteed salary)= 2.5 mill cap hit in 2015

Safety Parker at around the same dollars and similiar 2.5 mill cap hit , etc. You get the idea.

We can get a few mid-level decent starters in addition to Suh and not necessarily Charles Brown level back ups.

.

building a championship team in the salary cap era is to maintain a core built around young, elite players at the premium positions.

As mentioned previously, in today's NFL where passing is paramount, QB is the most critical followed by the positions that generally impact the passing game most both offensively and defensively.

Those premium positions in rough order offensively are QB,LT, WR,and two way speedy RB (rare + what they thought Wilson was). These are generally the offensive positions where the elite players can impact the game the most.

Defensively for NYG's 4-3 system it's more or less in this order: DE, CB, DT (with pass rush ability and could be as high as DE if he has special pass rush ability) .

With JPP in the fold, we have many of these pieces in place. If Giants were to able to also somehow bring in Suh, it could bring the DL back to 2007 championship level.

A couple other shrewd signings and good draft, we could be right in the thick of things next year.

I do not want him, we have too many needs to do that, go get a couple of fucking linebackers, get a fucking safety, and a starting Offensive lineman, that is what this team needs, do that then add a De and DT in this draft, then we are good to go, time to invest in this defense, Reese has done a shit job with the defense and the OLine, enough is enough, and I don't want a head case as my team leader, NO WAY, I don't care how good he is, I don't want him.

and Suh almost single handedly does that on defense.

It also means you can go OL in the draft where there's a ton of talent in the middle of the first.

Sign Suh, Parker and a vet insurance OT.

Trade down to about 20 and take 1 of the OL. Then you have 2 second round picks and a third to play with. Shaq Thompson, Preston Smith and Duke Johnson would be a nice haul, for example.

then draft an OL like Scherff or Flowers (in a trade down) in the 1st round, and another guy like Tomlinson or Havenstein (depending upon whether we draft the OG or OT in the 1st) later in the draft. Fill in with cheaper FAs, or extend Eli and get some more starters like McCourty and perhaps Sean Witherspoon on a cheaper contract.

and make an offer to JPP

hmmm, two #1's and maybe start a bidding war #4 overall for a QB

if Suh wants or gets Watt like money, I'd hope the Giants don't sign him. You can't trust him enough to stay out of trouble and live up to that huge contract on top of it. If he's reasonable, the Giants will definitely be involved.

But I also fully expect a team with a bunch of cap room to throw all kinds of money at him so signing a big name like Suh is more of a pipe dream. Unless it's really not all about the money with him. I don't really buy the whole wanting to be in New York for his image thing.

Just fucking do it!!! Guns blazing, if we screw ourselves with nothing to show at least we went down going all out! Transition will soon be upon us anyway. Give these guys the ammo for one stand now!

To sign.

In comment 12160571 Damon said:

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To sign.

Signing suh has no effect on signing jpp

JPP would be expendable if they sign Suh. What if he gets hurt. Or has a down year? Just floating the idea of signing Suh should make JPP think about wrapping up his deal.

Suh will be signed (or not) very early during the FA period.

So this news release motivates JPP to do something during free agency?

Schefter can expect all he wants.. Giants might sign a DT.. but it wont be SuH..

In comment 12160580 blueblood said:

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Schefter can expect all he wants.. Giants might sign a DT.. but it wont be SuH..

You know this how?

In comment 12160429 Hot Rod in Florida said:

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It would be quite the feat to pull this off. But a DT duo of Hankins and Suh would be impossible to run on and with edge rushers of JPP and Ayers along with the backups, we would have solved our defensive issues. No doubt that would probably mean we aren't inking any other free agents and Rolle will be history. On the other hand, with a defensive line like that, we can probably get by with mediocre dbs just like in the LT days with Toast and Perry Williams or draft a cb/s in the first after a trade down scenario. If Mariotta lasts past Tenn and the jets, Philly may be willing to do the deal. This would also increase the likelihood we fix the OL with our first pick, whether that be Scherff, Collins, or Peat.

Suh brings the defense to another level. It will also fix it to. Just a safety and a good draft. Super Bowl without a doubt.

we need help at DT, and the biggest aid edge rushers and blitzers have is pressure up the middle, Hankins, Suh with Jenkins and yes even Bromley as the backups should provide that pressure.

My only concern is that we won't have the ammo compared to the likes of the Raiders or the Jags (although you'd like to think that a smart player would look at both franchises recent history before just grabbing the money), the process will take too long and we'll miss out on other FA's, especially some of the cheaper guys at DT,

extending Eli doesn't make Suh,JPP more affordable. if anything, it makes them less affordable.

the first year cap hit for all three (whenever Eli has his first year of his next contract) is going to be low. When all three are escalating (year 2, 3 and beyond) is when they're going to be difficult to fit under the cap. You do not want 3 or more (gotta include Prince) mega dollar players all escalating at the same time.

assume we sign Suh, and JPP longterm. the first year cap hit for both is likely to be LESS than JPP's franchise tag.

In comment 12160276 jlukes said:

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11 times out of 10

This

I'd wager it's very unlikely Suh is coming here for less than what he expects in terms of market dollars, and 4-3 defenses are built around its DEs.

It's that delirious time of year again.

In fact I wouldn't be surprised if that is their preference as the DL pass-rush is considered the most important right under Qb.

Suh makes great sense to re-establish the dominance of this DL and get us back in the conversation as a championship caliber team.

The cap situation as outlined in prior posts is workable.

We have damn near 85 million to spend next offseason. That and we have to spend money to avoid the fine on that 89% rule which was put in the last CBA

gonna happen - no chance

No, he really hasn't, not even close to what it will take to sign Suh, JPP, and another starting caliber DE this unit badly needs.

Osi,Strahan, Tuck,Kiwi. All had substancial contracts with many playing at the same time.

Giant will spend for the DT if he is viewed as a passrusher.

Joseph, then Austin, then Bromley a few years after drafting Alford, signing Jenkins, Patterson, Shaun Rogers, try Marcus Kuhn, etc

How about solidifying the position and use the picks and FA dollars elsewhere?

but JPP back with Suh immediately makes us into a formidable defense, assuming DRC and Prince are back to 100%. Won't bother getting my hopes up though.

But why go through all this for one player? If we are going to make more cuts, restructure eli why not spend on multiple players like Sheard at de, Paea at dt, Franklin at guard/tackle and of course we need to upgrade at safety as well. It's fun to think of our defense with Suh but it just isn't going to happen.

would be scary. It would be worth all the personal fouls.

In comment 12160713 JonC said:

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No, he really hasn't, not even close to what it will take to sign Suh, JPP, and another starting caliber DE this unit badly needs.

..and in the unlikely event we were able to keep JPP and get Suh that other end spot would probably be a competition between Moore Wynn and Ayers...and maybe a rookie.

before you know it, the combined cap hits for Eli, Suh, and JPP would easily be more than 1/3 of the total cap. And that acceleration would likely be an issue right around the time they need to extend OB and others.

I'll leave it to the capologists.

and that would be sub-optimal, at best.

we need to get at least one safety in FA by hook or by crook, the draft looks pretty poor at that position.

And ideally it would be prudent to get some oline FA help at either T or LG.

Don't see how that would be possible after signing Suh, even if Eli and Prince is extended and Beason is cut or takes a pay cut.

FA should ideally open up flexibility in the draft so you're not reaching to fill gaps. Even the premium draft picks (round 1 and round 2) can take time to acclimatise to the NFL.

Yup, multiple needs and we've seen in recent seasons there's a cost to be paid during the season when your (crap) depth players must play due to injuries.

Even without signing Suh, they're going to be bargain hunting to fill out the roster.

In comment 12160775 JonC said:

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and that would be sub-optimal, at best.

It would leave our ability to rush off the edge still suspect unless we knock it out of the park with a draft pick. I'm sure Spags will come up with some pressure and we would get pressure up the middle but that other end worries me still.

Don't do it!

Don't do it!

Don't do it!

Don't do it!

Don't do it!

Don't do it!

Don't do it!

Don't do it!

Really?

However Schefter who usually is one of the most tuned in analysts out there seems to think we have an interest.

It isn't only about DEs. While DE is generally the most conventional position to generate a pass rush from, Giants are looking for and are willing to pay a premium for other positions they think they can generate a pass rush from.

It isn't like the pattern isn't there. Between the big $$$ NYG gave Canty, the run we made at Haynseworth (both primarily DT's). The Giants were even ready to give essentially a non-descript player in O'Brien Schofield 8 mill last year.

The incessant comments about how important pass rush is and how Reese even said we want to send 'a pass-rush in waves', 'you can never have too many pass rushers' etc.

Right or wrong, Giants crave pass rush and will be highly aggressive in pursuing it moreso than any other position. Again, The cap situation isn't as bleak as it seems as outlined in previous posts above.

Does this guarantee we get Suh? Absolutely not. But I wouldn't be surprised in the least if Schefter was onto something here.

In comment 12160785 Doomster said:

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Don't do it! Don't do it! Don't do it! Don't do it! Don't do it! Don't do it! Don't do it! Don't do it!

In case you needed proof this is the correct move.

In comment 12160761 jayg5 said:

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But why go through all this for one player? If we are going to make more cuts, restructure eli why not spend on multiple players like Sheard at de, Paea at dt, Franklin at guard/tackle and of course we need to upgrade at safety as well. It's fun to think of our defense with Suh but it just isn't going to happen.

You make a valid point yet isn't this a make it or break it year for Coughlin and company? Not sure a little tinkering here or there is enough if you want to win next year. Without Beckham, this might be a 3 win roster. This roster stinks and it's the result of too many poor drafts and holding onto vets (Diehl, Snee, etc) too long.

The Giants cap position for beyond 2015 is great b/c nobody commands too many dollars b/c they aren't that good.

B.T.W. - Paea is terrible against the run. Like Joh Jerry, he's good at one thing and miserable at another.

Not sure if Suh is or is not the answer but, IMO, considering all the draft picks and FA signing allocated towards the DT position, it's amazing they're still looking for a solution.

Saying the roster stinks is a little extreme. With JPP in the fold, Pieces at some of the most critical positions are here. Is this roster that far off from 2011? With a good FA and draft, it likely won't be far off.

and have multiple needs to address in free agency. Suh is a pipedream. Jerry Reese calling his agent to inquire about a price isn't 'pursuing' someone. It's due diligence. Longshot at best.

is phenomenal!

killer...

I'd even go out on a limb and say it would give Rolle pause on staying around for the run vs his last "payday".

It could be done but the tier-2 FA OL pickup and OL picks in the draft would have to be on point, I'd wager rds 2 and or 3. Rd 1 would more than likely be a playmaker then unless the #1 OT is still available.

Though we could spend "big" on FA OLs ... not a bad crop this year...

is the big push the team made for Haynesworth when he hit FA. The giants need DL and a line of JPP/Suh/Hank/Moore would be pretty great.

He's a shithead who is hard to root for, but so was Haynesworth.

In comment 12160889 Torrag said:

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and have multiple needs to address in free agency. Suh is a pipedream. Jerry Reese calling his agent to inquire about a price isn't 'pursuing' someone. It's due diligence. Longshot at best.

Sigh.

Our cap room is fluid and can drastically change day to day with any given move.

or who would play around him. My concern in a cap league is tying up such a large percentage of the cap in just a few players. Suh will get paid like a franchise QB and the Giants already have that cap hit. If either of them misses significant time you're screwed because so much of the roster of the roster will be vet minimum guys and rookies. I don't like the odds of tying up that much money in just a few players.

apparently haven't watched the NFL since 1986.

The difference between 6 wins and 10 wins is a few plays.

Relax.

Sure we can re-structure Eli and others to make room. Suh is going to command $9-10m minimum - imo that's a conservative estimate. We have needs at OG/S/DT/DE/RB/CB. The draft can supply some answers but free agency is going to have to fill a few holes. Do the math...

yep.

In comment 12160835 Coach Mason said:

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Saying the roster stinks is a little extreme. With JPP in the fold, Pieces at some of the most critical positions are here. Is this roster that far off from 2011? With a good FA and draft, it likely won't be far off.

Ask yourself, without Beckham how many wins does this team have?

In 2013, didn't the Packers without Rodgers, the QBless Vikings, Redskins twice, etc contribute to 7 wins?

The Giants have almost the most cap dollars available in the entire league for 2016. Why do you think that is? It's b/c not too many draft picks made it and are up for raises.

Look at the roster

A QB
Journeymen HB's a a few inexpensive draft picks
WR - a great talent, an inconsistent talent and talent on IR
TE - none command dollars or block
OL - a mediocre LT, a journeyman LG, a new center, cheap guard, inexpensive young RT
DL - JPP stud, Hankins good player and question marks
LB - young Kennard and question marks. Actually, more problems than solutions
CB - two nice corners
S - some youngsters with the jury still out

Without Beckham they're likely picking #1 overall. They won only 13 games in two years and beat some really bad teams along the way.

Jennings got dinged up ... but he did well when he played and the O was smoother... Make the OL better he gets better Williams gets better .... that 3rd speedy RB can be had for cheap. The real question in FA is DL or OL with S has a dark horse.

i don't see how this is viable but leave to the capologists. But with the amount of solid depth we need, I do not see how we can sign a guy like Suh not with the money that JPP is costing. I don't know how we can competitively field solid depth on the roster and have such a top heavy salary distribution. The math at a high level does not seem to work.

Plus you are basically saying Hankins is on a one and done contract with us. So should we start the future thread of bitching that we let another high draft DT pick go after first contract?

In comment 12160948 MotownGIANTS said:

Quote:

Jennings got dinged up ... but he did well when he played and the O was smoother... Make the OL better he gets better Williams gets better .... that 3rd speedy RB can be had for cheap. The real question in FA is DL or OL with S has a dark horse.

We ABSOLUTELY have a need at RB. Jennings can't be counted on and lets be honest, until Williams shows some vision and an ability to find open space outside of the blocking scheme, he's a below average running back.

In comment 12160927 Torrag said:

Quote:

Sure we can re-structure Eli and others to make room. Suh is going to command $9-10m minimum - imo that's a conservative estimate. We have needs at OG/S/DT/DE/RB/CB. The draft can supply some answers but free agency is going to have to fill a few holes. Do the math...

Extending Eli is basically a given, as is restructuring Beason and Weatherford, and potentially extending Prince. That could free up a chunk of change, but personally while I see the attraction in pumping up the run D and interior pass rush, I think you'd get more of an overall return from signing a combination of the following.

Robbins/Langford
McCourty/Searcy
Franklin/Iupati

as it would allow you to the freedom to pick the best player available in the draft. It's critical we get a safety in FA or the draft (perhaps two if Rolle goes), it's also critical we get a swing tackle and a guard

If signing Suh is possible then fine, but I don't see how it is without hamstring our ability to get in role players in FA leading us to have to overreach in the draft for specific positions. We're more than DT away, regardless of his talent.

Warning: I am not a capologist, so please chime in if the numbers are off a bit. This is for a rough idea only.



Cap hits for top 5 DL in 2011 (2007 may have been higher but couldn't find the cap #'s):

Canty 7.2m
Tuck 5.1m
JPP 4.7m
Osi 3.625m
Kiwi 2.8m

Total 24.425m ($120 cap for 2011 24.425/120= 20.3% cap resources dedicated to DL)


Cap hits for top 5 DL in 2011:
JPP 14.7m
Suh 9m (.5m+ amortized garanteed 8.5m)
Hankins 1.1m
Moore .75m
Ayers 2.47m
Jenkins 2.1m

Total 30.12m ($143 cap for 2015 30.12/143= 21% cap resources dedicated to DL)

Accounting for 20% increase in cap ($143 vs $120), Giants would be extremely close to the allocation percentage in 2011.

As far as having the space to do it, I have listed examples in previous posts of how NYG could sign Suh and still conceivably have room for other mid-level free agents.

.

that's instructive but the part that worries me is finding space to resign Hankins after his rookie contract. Those JPP & Suh cap hits would only increase as their annual salaries rise, squeezing the cap.

As a 2015 snapshot, it looks feasible. Later on - in 2017 &18 - it's risky.

talent. Defensive Linemen of this calibre in their prime almost never hit free agency.

This is a once in a lifetime opportunity. Giants have to be looking at it just like every other team.

And like we know - he wants to play here because he knows he can make tons of extra $$$. Huge, huge advantage. JPP and Suh on the same Defensive Line = top 5 defense. If Moore or somebody else steps up skies the limit

In comment 12161018 BeerFridge said:

Quote:

.

I think the $8.5mm amortization of the upfront bonus is a good estimate. $52mm/6 = $8.5mm.

Tying up that much money in Suh on top of JPP and Eli may not be a smart move but some of you either don't understand the Giants cap situation or are being willfully ignorant to support your own arguments .

The Giants will will have more to spend this year than you would have us believe. We have a ton of space next year with an ever ballooning cap. Creative structuring will get us what we need.

We can have Suh but that doesn't mean it is a smart move to give him a huge contract

In comment 12161018 BeerFridge said:

Quote:

.

Posted it above but will re-state it here for ease of reading:

Regarding Suh's potential contract , if you take something close to Watts contract, Let's say 6 year 100 mill with 50 guaranteed.

Amortize the guaranteed money over the life of the contract.

So if you make year 1 a low salary of 500K: year 1's cap hit would be 50MM/6 + 500K or a little under 9 million for year 1.

Add in an Eli restructure, Beason restructure, and other possibilities like Prince signed long-term with any other incoming FA's obviously on much smaller deals (with cap friendly first years) it may be doable even without JPP signing longterm.

For additional perspective, Schwartz signed for 4yr/ 16mill w/5.7 mill guaranteed

Let's say Orlando Franklin would sign for around 5yr/25mill with 10 guaranteed

Year 1 salary: 500K + 2 mill (amortized gauranteed salary)= 2.5 mill cap hit in 2015

Safety like Parker or Searcy at around the same dollars and similar 2.5 mill year 1 cap hit , etc. You get the idea.

Giants can still get a few mid-level decent starters in addition to Suh and not necessarily Charles Brown level back ups.

Thanks Coach Mason

In comment 12161032 LakeGeorgeGiant said:

Quote:

Tying up that much money in Suh on top of JPP and Eli may not be a smart move but some of you either don't understand the Giants cap situation or are being willfully ignorant to support your own arguments . The Giants will will have more to spend this year than you would have us believe. We have a ton of space next year with an ever ballooning cap. Creative structuring will get us what we need. We can have Suh but that doesn't mean it is a smart move to give him a huge contract

Debating 'smart' or ideal cap allocation percentages for each unit is another argument onto itself. However I think it's clear the Giants are willing to allocate a large percentage to the DL.

I believe if it was that easy then everyone would do that every year or two. Also a few of those contract numbers seemed low for guys who will have a lot of teams completing for their services...

In comment 12161024 area junc said:

Quote:

talent. Defensive Linemen of this calibre in their prime almost never hit free agency. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity. Giants have to be looking at it just like every other team. And like we know - he wants to play here because he knows he can make tons of extra $$$. Huge, huge advantage. JPP and Suh on the same Defensive Line = top 5 defense. If Moore or somebody else steps up skies the limit

I tend to agree with most of Reese's philosophies regarding team construction except perhaps for his propensity to take on injury risks.

With that said, if we were somehow able to land Suh, a line of JPP,Suh,Hankins and just about any DE on the other side that was simply sound in their run/pass responsibilities would be a ferocious front. Ayers/Moore(in pass situations)/Wynn would likely be suffice.

Plus, I personally believe Moore takes a big jump under Steve and potentially a more player friendly system.

The main point I wanted to make was that the assumption that signing Suh would mean we couldn't address other positions due to cap space was incorrect. I think you did a better job explaining. that than I could have.

it would take to sign Suh?
I would go after Suh and sell him on the virtues of being the guy on this defense in this market ala Strahan and if the money is reasonable, then let's do that cause let's face it, he's a need against that Dallas Oline. However if we strike out, Dockett would be a great fall back option.

In comment 12161048 Semipro Lineman said:

Quote:

I believe if it was that easy then everyone would do that every year or two. Also a few of those contract numbers seemed low for guys who will have a lot of teams completing for their services...

Semi, I don't pretend to be a capologist or have intimate knowledge of the upcoming climate of free agency.
You could be right.

However, Schwartz who was probably the top OG on the market last year 'only' got 4yrs/16.

5/25 w/10 guaranteed for Franklin or maybe Derek Newton (who is less heralded but a character guy ,hard worker , great in pass pro last year and just smells like a Reese-type target) could be had for that or less.

numbers I can see. The safety numbers quoted in this thread are more doubtful in my mind.

The overall number of cap-space moves and "bargain" contact seems high to me especially since team management may not be considering the Giants to be just one or two moves away from being a serious superbowl contender status. Thus they may want to save some of those bargaining chips or chess moves for when they are closer.

I think there are enough safety options to land one at a reasonable contract and year 1 cap hit.

Even if Parker got the 6 he reportedly was asking for , for instance a contract of 5 years-30 million with 10 guaranteed.

.5m first year salary + amortized guaranteed still works out to a 2.5 mill year 1 cap hit.

In comment 12160704 Coach Mason said:

Quote:

In fact I wouldn't be surprised if that is their preference as the DL pass-rush is considered the most important right under Qb. Suh makes great sense to re-establish the dominance of this DL and get us back in the conversation as a championship caliber team. The cap situation as outlined in prior posts is workable.

Delirium runs rampant. There isn't any possible way the Giants can afford it! Also, look at teams with a top-riced QB and a top-priced DL-man and i will show you a team which didn't win a SB.

In comment 12161104 dguy901 said:

Quote:

In comment 12160704 Coach Mason said: Quote: In fact I wouldn't be surprised if that is their preference as the DL pass-rush is considered the most important right under Qb. Suh makes great sense to re-establish the dominance of this DL and get us back in the conversation as a championship caliber team. The cap situation as outlined in prior posts is workable. Delirium runs rampant. There isn't any possible way the Giants can afford it! Also, look at teams with a top-riced QB and a top-priced DL-man and i will show you a team which didn't win a SB.

You mean like the 2007 Giants or the 2014 Patriots?

In comment 12161104 dguy901 said:

Quote:

Delirium runs rampant. There isn't any possible way the Giants can afford it!

You are wrong. Just flat wrong if you think there is no possible way they can afford it.

1st year cap hits are low. It would be about next year and after that. Which we only have 66 million committed next year. The cap is supposed to be at least 154 million. So we have plenty of space to sign him.

so im not going to even think about it !!!

on not re-upping Eli's deal and going with Nassib the year after next on a team friendly contract playing out his rookie deal.

then they can afford Suh. LOL

In comment 12161202 nyynyg said:

Quote:

on not re-upping Eli's deal and going with Nassib the year after next on a team friendly contract playing out his rookie deal. then they can afford Suh. LOL

Well, then the Giants will likely have close to $80 million next offseason. Who do the Giants spend that cash on to get to 89%? "Hey Herzlich, here is an extra $20 million so we can get to 89%".

Kidding but the Giants, like everybody, has to spend the money.

it shouldn't come as a surprise that Reese would be planning to make a serious run at Suh. He's a Reese type player. If you can get to the QB Reese will want you and if you can get to the QB from the interior Reese will be foaming at the mouth to sign you.

I'd be shocked if the Giants don't make a serious offer to Suh.

And for those who like to point out how Reese went after Haynesworth, how did that turn out for the team that landed him? A great example of why these things never work out.

I don't think the offer will be enough...but it will probably make Suh think about it...

Giants have plenty of cap room.

In comment 12161212 Curtis in VA said:

Quote:

And for those who like to point out how Reese went after Haynesworth, how did that turn out for the team that landed him? A great example of why these things never work out.

I'm pretty sure Fat Albert had work ethic concerns even before his big deal. Nick Fairley is the DT that is more similar to AH in that regard, though he's never been as dominant.

I haven't seen any questions about Suh's work ethic or desire.

and I think it's possible that the Giants feel that tagging JPP and signing Suh is not that crazy an idea. IF the Giants liked Suh more than JPP as a player, and I am not saying they do or don't but if they did, wouldn't it make sense to sign Suh to the long term deal and let JPP play for pay this year? Even if they decided to let JPP walk, in their eyes they kept the 'better' player for long term and they were able to field an insane DL for at least one year and sort of go all in...

If they like Suh as much or more than JPP it may not be so far fetched for the Giants to consider signing Suh and keeping the tag on JPP....that's not how they usually operate but it's an interesting and possibly smart way of handing this.

I was and am all for re-signing JPP long term but if you told me the Giants could ink Suh long term and keep JPP for at least one more year? I don't think that's a bad thing. If JPP walks you get the comp pick and still have the nastiest DT combo in the NFL. If JPP, for whatever reason decides to stay it's gravy.

Or the Giants could just sign both long term...yippee..

In comment 12161224 giants#1 said:

Quote:

In comment 12161212 Curtis in VA said: Quote: And for those who like to point out how Reese went after Haynesworth, how did that turn out for the team that landed him? A great example of why these things never work out. I'm pretty sure Fat Albert had work ethic concerns even before his big deal. Nick Fairley is the DT that is more similar to AH in that regard, though he's never been as dominant. I haven't seen any questions about Suh's work ethic or desire.

Suh's desire to step on his opponents is caution enough.

please stop... he is going to the raiders

One of the best players in the sport. Can't see it happening, especially now with JPP franchised.

I apologize
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sending that out to the NFL..

talent, it's not a stretch to say they're considering it. That's still a long way from a match.

to have Suh and Hankins side by side to battle the Cowboys OL. I know the price is incredibly high, but if the money saved by not pursuing him ends up going toward another round of JD Waltons, Quintin Demps, and Rashad Jennings, etc., I'd rather have the HOF DT in his prime and figure out the rest later.

In comment 12161244 blueblood said:

Quote:

sending that out to the NFL..

No need for Suh's agent to do shit like that. His client will break the bank regardless of whether the Giants are interested.

In comment 12161259 bceagle05 said:

Quote:

In comment 12161244 blueblood said: Quote: sending that out to the NFL.. No need for Suh's agent to do shit like that. His client will break the bank regardless of whether the Giants are interested.

Agents do it ALL The time. Why SHOULDNT his agent do it. You mean it wouldnt be smart to get teams thinking there would other destinations for SuH. There are teams with a TON of cap room. Jags.. Raiders.. Browns.. WASHINGTON...

Thats what agents do..

if all of a sudden these Suh "leaks" are pointed right at the direction of JPP and his camp.

And for those that can't grasp the concept of how Suh's contract would effect JPP's contract, simple.

The Giants want JPP back at their price. They want it done soon so they can go into the open market with his cap numver lower than the franchise tag number. Obviously negotiations aren't going anywhere so they are looking for anything to move the momentum back on their side. JPP has a 15 million guaranteed to him at the moment, as well as knowing the Giants want him back long term. With him tying up a huge chunk of money pre free agency. Why would they cave now?

If JPP and his camp start to feel the that the long term guaranteed money may not be there if they make a run at Suh, it may pressure them to come closer to the Giants number.

JPP's cap number is currently the most flexible number the Giants have to work with. Eli is the trump card but that may be for next year which seems more and more likely, they aren't sold on extending Prince to top CB dollar yet and Beason's number isn't moving the needle.

ding ding

JPP has a big year, he will get paid. The leverage for the Giants is the same as it's always been " if I get hurt, there goes the money "

quite sure that the Giants definitely want Pierre Paul locked up long term. The 15 million cap number is a problem but I think they may actually want him to play out the year on the franchise tender and prove he can stay healthy and have a great year. Not sure a long term deal for JPP right now is a good thing from the giants perspective. He's not signing a team friendly deal no matter how much pressure they put on him

should get their heads checked. Consider the following:

1. IMO he is a top 5 or 10 defender in the league, if you can add a player like that at the right price you do it, always.

2. Why wouldn't we do our diligence? There are prices i'd happily have him on the team for and those in which I wouldn't. He seems to want to play in NY, we could get creative with the structure there isn't a reason in the world not to take a run at him at our price.

3. JPP getting tagged doesn't mean he is going to play for that. IMO if we sigh Suh we could get a desperate Detroit team to give up a high pick for him. We'd have significant leverage in negotiations with him or trading him to another team. (I believe we can actually pull back the tag as well, until he signs it)

4. We could easily restructure Eli's deal and make him AND Suh's number this year LESS than his current number.

5. We do have other holes and ways to get additional funds as people have mentioned but the bottom line with FA is that you generally overpay for average or above average people. It's seen time and time again that the draft is the best way to build but if you do have a real shot at a superstar on the market you do whatever it takes to grab them.

6. Sorry, I like JPP but he isn't Suh. Again, the prices have to be right on both of them but if it comes down to one or the other give me Suh, in a NY minute.

they want him long-term at $11-12M per, so they've got their work cut out for them to try and bring down his demands. I believe it was Serby who reported the same a couple weeks ago, so I believe it's accurate.

4/44-48, 5/55 ... something like that with $20M guar ballpark is the estimated endgame for NYG. It will be an interesting dance.

.

to Miami gaining steam.

In comment 12161361 JonC said:

Quote:

they want him long-term at $11-12M per, so they've got their work cut out for them to try and bring down his demands. I believe it was Serby who reported the same a couple weeks ago, so I believe it's accurate. 4/44-48, 5/55 ... something like that with $20M guar ballpark is the estimated endgame for NYG. It will be an interesting dance.

I can't fathom him signing that type of deal especially with only 20 million guaranteed. On a deal like that i'd bring him back long term but I just dont see him signing that type of deal.

In comment 12161365 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

to Miami gaining steam.

No state income tax. That will save 5-8 million easy.

to Miami also gaining steam.

Nor me but it gaves NYG room to increase their offer quite a bit. If JPP really wants to stay, he'll lower his demands. If he really wants market dollars, he's gone next Spring, if not sooner.

not that opposed to letting him playing out his franchise tender. I actually prefer it.

In comment 12161379 JonC said:

Quote:

to Miami also gaining steam.

great place to visit, wouldn't want to live there.

but that's just me.

In comment 12161388 MookGiants said:

Quote:

not that opposed to letting him playing out his franchise tender. I actually prefer it.

I can see both sides. But..if the Giants do intend/would like to extend him, it makes no sense to have him play on the FT. The Giants could wind up like the Pats with Welker.

When you consider for 10M more guaranteed over the FT amount they could sign JPP for 5 or 6 years, having him play for 15M guaranteed for one year doesn't make sense.

the Pats kept trying to use the Welker 10M from the FT in their negotiations (like you already got 10M from us for 2012, so for 2013 let's make it 8M guaranteed and that's 18M for two years - more than many WR's are getting...)

In comment 12161385 JonC said:

Quote:

Nor me but it gaves NYG room to increase their offer quite a bit. If JPP really wants to stay, he'll lower his demands. If he really wants market dollars, he's gone next Spring, if not sooner.

am I the only one that thinks it is absolutely certain it is the latter and not the former with JPP. He doesn't strike me as leaning toward or loyal to Giants in any way. In fact, even money deal or close, I still think JPP could be the type to elect a different market. (hey, his choice, not giving him a hard time, that is just the way the guy strikes me)

I'm ok with him playing out the tender as well, I think we have a similar sense of him as the team, at the moment (granted with a lot less facts).

Then 44mill under in 2016. NYG comparatively is at about the same with the JPP tag now and then 84mill under next year.

I could definitely see the Giants using this as leverage for JPP but I could also see them making a run at Suh too.

.
Link - ( New Window )

write it down.

In comment 12161488 JonC said:

Quote:

write it down.

Was the reported interest in Haynesworth not real?

was the BIG NYG numbers being floated in the media were put out there by AH's agent, but the actual offer Reese made was somewhere in the $40-50M range.

In comment 12161476 robrosz said:

Quote:

. Link - ( New Window )

I wonder if his sources is schefter.

In comment 12161495 JonC said:

Quote:

was the BIG NYG numbers being floated in the media were put out there by AH's agent, but the actual offer Reese made was somewhere in the $40-50M range.

I heard "at least 50M" too from someone with firsthand knowledge. Haynesworth though reported the Giants 80M offer AFTER he signed with Washington, and I don't recall it being floated before, but regardless the Giants were prepared to offer a ton of money to Haynesworth and there is good reason to believe they're prepared to do the same with Suh.

NYG isn't paying that money to a DT, so he needs to set his sights much lower in order to make it happen.

In comment 12161491 chris r said:

Quote:

In comment 12161488 JonC said: Quote: write it down. Was the reported interest in Haynesworth not real?

From the article:

But there is no doubt some in the Giants organization view Suh, who had 8 ½ sacks last season, to be just as much of a game-changer on defense as a top defensive end. With a healthy Pierre-Paul at one end and Suh and an emerging Johnathan Hankins in the middle, new defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo would have three-fourths of a dangerous front line.

If he really wants to play in NY for marketing purposes as has been reported this may not be out of the realm of possibility.

I think Mook hit on it earlier. JPP's numbers at the end of the year are inflated similiar to Tuck's were the year prior. During the year when we needed it most he was mostly a non factor. Could this be leverage yes, could the Giants have an interest yes, and I believe they do have interest. What they have to decide is that given his injury history and habit of taking of some plays how much of an investment is JPP worth, and I'm sure as with any player he thinks he's worth more than the FO does. Would it shock me to see Suh and JPP, to a degree as I think it's likely one or the other not both.. I personally think Suh is the higher impact player and would help us more in the long run even if he costs more.

/reality check

In comment 12161540 Torrag said:

Quote:

/reality check

Not at all. Why?

The Giants have 11M in cap space. they can get that contract done for much less than 11M cap space in year 1, plus they can extend Eli, JPP, and Prince - or any of the three and clear more room if they want.

They're not likely to sign Suh IMO, but cap room today isn't the reason.

seems ridiculously flimsy.

You can become a huge star without playing in New York.

.

In comment 12161549 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

seems ridiculously flimsy. You can become a huge star without playing in New York.

You can, but playing in New York does give you a big advantage. Think Michael Strahan lands the gigs he has now playing in Denver?

You're aware of our roster and it's resemblance to a certain cheese from Switzerland? Too many holes to fill to give one player that size chunk...imo.

still doable (although as I said unlikely).

If you consider Cruz got 15M guaranteed on a 6 year deal, and cost 2.5M on the cap year 1 on the cap, extrapolate it out to 50M guaranteed and it's doable for Suh for around 8.5M on the cap in year 1.

with the cap escalating and the Giants space opening up, not having the cap room isn't why they won't do this IMO.

that's a whole other time zone for contract demands. Frankly he's worth a boatload. He's a great player. We've got to get our house in order. That requires smart allocation of resources.

"highest paid" is bogus anyway. Throw an extra year on the deal with a non-guaranteed $25M base salary and he can claim he's the highest paid (if that's important).

Similarly, lot's of ways to inflate JPP's eventual contract that keep the "real" value more in line with what the Giants front office wants or to allow them to hedge against injuries/poor play (e.g. large roster bonuses in years 3-4-5).

.

look at the details of Robert Quinn's contract. He technically has over $41M in guaranteed money, but >$18M was in roster bonuses. Had he gotten hurt last year, they could've cut him with little dead money (~$4M). If he blows out his knee this year, they could cut him next offseason for <$3M in dead money. So the money isn't really "guaranteed"

In comment 12161555 MookGiants said:

Quote:

In comment 12161549 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: seems ridiculously flimsy. You can become a huge star without playing in New York. You can, but playing in New York does give you a big advantage. Think Michael Strahan lands the gigs he has now playing in Denver?

This

number is out there IMO because that's what McCoy got a year ago.

(52M guaranteed).

I think Suh is comparable, but not every team has to spend money the way TB did/does.

And get both of these guys around 10 or a little over 10 a year.. do it, watch our D go from bottom tier to elite status, windows closing, time to make one final push

is the kind of player where a bunch of people trash him while it's clear it's a remote possibility, and then 99% of BBI shoots of champagne should it happen.

In comment 12161668 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

is the kind of player where a bunch of people trash him while it's clear it's a remote possibility, and then 99% of BBI shoots of champagne should it happen.

...or flip the fuck out when Cowboys, Eagles or Redskins sign him for the same money everyone deemed so ridiculous for us to spend.

have any said anything bad about Suh?

So, I think it's 99% of people would love if the Giants signed him, but 75% of the people realize it's highly unlikely.

but the Nebraska Texas Big 12 title game when Suh was a senior at Nebraska might be the best defensive performance by an individual I've seen in college football. Even though his team lost.

It was like Charles Jefferson against Lincoln in Fast Times at Ridgemont High.

whether we win the bidding for his services or not is a different story. Going to be an exciting March. We are going to get some decent players in here to complement our core. If we're fortunate maybe a player like Suh that becomes core too.

is being used to leverage a deal from jpp i hope the FA they spend thier money on are mccourty,franklin/iupati and jerry hughes who could all be had combined for less than suh would cost and would improve them more

In comment 12160571 Damon said:

Quote:

To sign.

Yup... smokescreen . .

Next topic .

going to be used for leverage with JPP?

He simply has to sign his FT and the Giants owe him 15M guaranteed.

On top of the 17M he's already earned, that's more money than most of you will earn in a life time.

So because the Giants are rumored to have interest in Suh, it gives them leverage against JPP how?

up above.

In comment 12161212 Curtis in VA said:

Quote:

And for those who like to point out how Reese went after Haynesworth, how did that turn out for the team that landed him? A great example of why these things never work out.

Amazing logic, I can't even begin to point out everything wrong with this statement lol

In comment 12161873 cvicszasz said:

Quote:

In comment 12160571 Damon said: Quote: To sign. Yup... smokescreen . . Next topic .

cvics, Do you know this for sure?

We were close to getting Reggie White, Suh is the best DL since White. He's the most valuable non-QB in the league. I'd love to see Suh playing for NYG.

In comment 12161903 JonC said:

Quote:

up above.

I guess, but not sure I buy that. the FT is worse for the team that it is the player. historically I wonder how many guys who play on the FT, how many are back with their same team the next year.

if the Giants are prepared to pay JPP 25M - 30M guaranteed paying him 15M this year on the tag just doesn't make sense.

I believe they used it to buy time to get a deal worked out. and if they don't it's one year and gone for JPP.

And i don't have an issue with him playing one year on the tag and then leaving, but my point is if the Giants do in fact want JPP long-term having him play on the tag this year doesn't make sense.

I used the Welker parallel because it was very public up here how those negotiations went. People will forget about it now (up here in Boston) because they won a title, but last year when Welker was good and Ammendola not so good, it was all over the radio and how Kraft/Belichick let the bad blood they had for Welker playing on the tag cloud the negotiations the next year.

just my opinion.

And that says nothing about how I feel JPP is NOT easily replaceable.

They want a longer term deal they can live with, and they're unwilling to risk letting him go without compensation. It's really that simple right now, imv. Leaking interest in Suh or other is just a nudge to assist in moving negotiations forward.

In comment 12162397 JonC said:

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They want a longer term deal they can live with, and they're unwilling to risk letting him go without compensation. It's really that simple right now, imv. Leaking interest in Suh or other is just a nudge to assist in moving negotiations forward.

agree with all that and have said as much, other than I still don't see how leaking anything about the Giants and Suh motivates me and certainly doesn't add leverage if I am JPP and his agent to get a LT deal done.

It has zero impact if I am their camp. If the Giants don't pay JPP what he wants, he'll get it elsewhere. and be richer for it, since he's getting 15M for this year. He obviously has injury risk which is worth something, but probably not that much when you've made 34M dollars already compared to say a 5th round pick who played on a rookie deal.

If they won't settle for anything less than market dollars, so be it. In the meantime, this is the game ...

and teams are not beyond doing this, but I believe linking a possible Giants interest in Suh as a ploy to affect the JPP negotiations is a stretch and a BBI theory only..

note the timing of the Tag and the "leak".

In comment 12162430 JonC said:

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note the timing of the Tag and the "leak".

Still a stretch in this case..

Imho

In comment 12162430 JonC said:

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note the timing of the Tag and the "leak".

I'd 100% believe it if JPP had not been franchised. Once they franchise him, if they negotiate with Suh, JPP and his camp don't care IMO. They're getting 15M for one year and then next year they go elswhere and get a new 6 year 65M contract with 25M guaranteed. And then he's at 40M guaranteed over 7 years.

That's the only thing I find makes the theory in this case not plausible.

Perhaps, NYG capology has a scenario mapped outwhere they make a move to re-sign JPP and offer Suh, both $12M per ... if both are open to compromise in order to play in the NY market, and both believe they can win SB's here ... perhaps both put their money where their mouth is and sign.

Stranger things have happened, though it's probably less than 50/50 shot.

Also, note the timing of all the roster/cap moves in Philly. You can bet your arse Philly is positioning for UFA, word tends to get around the back channels (agents) as to targets etc. NYG could be both angling for UFAs and simultaneously try to drive up the price on Suh for Philly, eg.

is sitting pretty with nearly 15 mill in the bank and a possible 17-18 mill to look forward to if we franchise him again next year(I believe a zero chance of that happening) or he walks to very receptive deep pockets..

A Suh rumor/leak isn't going to move him and his Agent one iota, imo..The Agent takes that(if true) for what it is, a ploy

what PJ said

If the singular goal is top market dollars, then you're right, there's no shot.

But, if the goal includes playing in the NY market, believing a SB win is within reach, and recognizing all the other $ opportunities in NY, then perhaps compromise is feasible.

Cruz did exactly that, after protracted negotiations that also touched the media, etc.

he was playing on the RFA tag, so 2.2M and was a UDFA who had not earned 17M already.

He was as eager as the Giants to get something done.

Once the Giants let him sit as an RFA and gauged the interest league wide, Cruz didn't have much choice if he wanted any financial security. And I think his injury this year if anything proves he was justified.

Don't forget JPP was the last of the old CBA, so his deal wasn't like today's first round player. As a comparison, Ryan Shazier, the 15th pick last year got 9.5M for his 4 year deal, JPP got 17M for his 5 year deal.