And I agree with Eric on Cruz- He needs to bounce back.
I think it's safe to say Cruz's days of 99yd TDs are over, but I think they need to use him like a Welker/Edelman type. He can still drive defenses crazy in the slot.
has been in for years - maybe ever. And looking forward the situation is even better the next few years. There is a real opportunity this off season to get a few difference makers by keeping first year cap hits low and then ramping up.
when we restructure, pushing money into the future, looking only at the short term 'savings' then groans when it's time to pay the piper. Kiwi is a great example.
Baas was just a bad signing all around. He got way too much money, and never really produced. even when not hurt, he was merely OK, and then Reese doubled down on restructuring him.
Very few booed when Beason was re-signed. it was great: he had an excellent half season with the Giants, and seemed to be over his injury. Then he had a totally different injury and suddenly everyone comes out of the woodwork to proclaim how bad the deal was.
won't be playing next year under the tag, it isn't the way the Giants do things. He is tagged simply as a leverage play to ensure the Giants hold all the cards.
They know he's going to get a big deal, but no player wants to have a one year deal in place. It's why premium players despise the tag. On a long term deal, JPP will get guaranteed money that's 3 times what the tagged year would pay him. Plus he knows the team won't really be able to cut him for 3-4 years due to the dead money.
It's all about what we all want in our professional lives, the highest pay for the longest time possible.
Neither party wants JPP to play the one year under the tag, they both want a deal, and it WILL HAPPEN!!! No doubt, and I would kindly wager with anyone who thinks this won't be the case.
Now Eli will also get extended. His our guy...he's not going anywhere. It will happen and this will give us a big chunk of space to work with. Also, looking at Eric's list of players, Prince and NYG are surely working on a long term deal that will bring his number down. Plus, he is our best CB and we need to lock him up regardless. Now is better since he had an injury, we should be a team friendly deal.
Also, Beason has got to go or take a massive paycut. We can't count on him to stay healthy and that is enough to let him go IMO, besides the cap savings that would allow us to bring in a younger, healthier option.
Weatherford also has take a cut, or bye bye.
We could save 5 million just between Beason and Weathford, that brings us up to 15 mil in space, if Prince,Eli and JPP all get done, we will have 25+ mil in cap space!! That enables JR and CO. to do alot of things in FA
Some of that draft pool will just be offset by contracts
Will be the day the Giants make a decision on Beason. He has bonus money due him that day or they might let him go. I see a pay cut coming for more cap space.
Will be the day the Giants make a decision on Beason. He has bonus money due him that day or they might let him go. I see a pay cut coming for more cap space.
...and McClain gets another 3.5 mil and I believe a roster bonus also. That's a lot of money for a couple old crippled linebackers.
boy - some of you are making a mountain out of a mole hill
with your comments on the dead cap money -- It's a pretty moderate amount for what it represents
You can't kill Jerry for signing Bass and adjusting Kiwi's contract -- and the dead money is not very significant in the scheme of things. Anyone who could have predicted Bass'es injuries is lying -- he seemed like a solid signing at the time.
heck - sign JPP - and it's believable that you could sign Suh too -- not that I think Jerry is going to -- but it's conceivable
Baas is painful. Agree, it's a cold business and Cruz could be on
between now and FA start for the team. I know JR said don't expect much FA signing by the team, and though the 10M right now bears that out, they are going to need at least another veteran OL, and draft at least 1(I am pessimistic about Schwartz), and also address the D, maybe draft several.
Extending and cutting needs to add minimally another 10M just to get in the game against similar needs competition to sign 3-4 quality veterans.
$3 million is not steep for a punter of Weatherford's caliber -- if you believe he makes a difference in field position after a punt -- Weatherford has been battling injuries in the past year though -- if he's healthy going into 2015 then he's worth it - at healthy he's one of the best in the business right now - if still injured then not -- even when injured though - he played through it and the Giants did not have to bring on an extra salary for him last year
$3 million is not steep for a punter of Weatherford's caliber -- if you believe he makes a difference in field position after a punt -- Weatherford has been battling injuries in the past year though -- if he's healthy going into 2015 then he's worth it - at healthy he's one of the best in the business right now - if still injured then not -- even when injured though - he played through it and the Giants did not have to bring on an extra salary for him last year
Gidie, I would be more inclined to spend that on a good punter if I thought this team was a real contender. I don't think they are going to be that in 2015, so maybe it's a good time to get a younger, cheaper option. Or, restructure and extend Weatherford at a lower rate. He is in good shape and punters have a long shelf life.
weatherford's contract is right in the middle for punters
I don't think we do. So for me, signing Baas did work, just not long term. He did not come to us injury prone. Calling that a bad signing is foolish. The re-structure proved to be bad, but mainly due to health.
Weaterford, Jennings and Beason probably will be re-negotiated. Eli may be extended to save more current cap space. I am not sure what is up with Eli, not sure if he really wants to play after this year. The year we moved up to draft Nassib was the year of Eli's infamous comments about football losing importance compared to his wife and children. Reality is, he can retire quite comfortably and not risk serious injury. He no doubt sees and talks with his brother. Peyton dealt with neck pain and arm weakness for a few years before his 1st surgery in May 2011. He had a 2nd, more serious surgery about the beginning of the 2011 season and missed the season. Next year will be (4) years since surgery and Eli is (5) years younger. Just saying.
RE: While it may be in good cap shape
gidiefor : 11:52 am : link : reply
In comment 12161126 Doomster said:
Quote:
this team has a lot of holes to fill, especially on defense....soon as those holes are filled, cap hell begins...
I don't get it -- if they fill up all the holes -- why are we in cap hell?
How much do you think two starting safeties are going to cost?
How much do you think a starting LG/RT will cost?
How much do you think a good starting linebacker will cost? DT? DE?
What does this team have for backups? Yeah, you can fill them with vet mins and get what you pay for.....want to restructure Eli? If you manage to sign JPP long term? Then yes you create space, that you pay for down the road....
I am just trying to make those that think we have all this cap space, realize, yes, we are in better shape than in the past, but this talk of signing Suh, resigning JPP, extending Eli, resigning Prince, all will cost cap money....
The same people are in place, that have made the decisions for the last 5 years.....think they do a 180? This team should have been thinking rebuild mode after the 2011 season, but they had "Jerruh Disease" and wanted to win again in their home stadium....they have delayed that rebuild with poor decisions, and now are faced with a head coach that wants to win now before he leaves....we should have taken care of Eli, instead we stuck him behind poor OL's and made bad decisions in rebuilding this offense.....so once again, what is the plan of the NY Football Giants? They have backed themselves into a corner, with a team in transition, and can't make up their minds whether to play for now or the future....instead they are trying to do both and how has that worked out? Two straight losing seasons, and missing the playoffs 5 out of the last 6 seasons......most on this board seem to forget this....
RE: boy - some of you are making a mountain out of a mole hill
with your comments on the dead cap money -- It's a pretty moderate amount for what it represents
You can't kill Jerry for signing Bass and adjusting Kiwi's contract -- and the dead money is not very significant in the scheme of things. Anyone who could have predicted Bass'es injuries is lying -- he seemed like a solid signing at the time.
heck - sign JPP - and it's believable that you could sign Suh too -- not that I think Jerry is going to -- but it's conceivable
No but you can kill Jerry for not having an adequate replacement on the roster for O'Hara which would have obviated the need for signing Baas.
RE: RE: boy - some of you are making a mountain out of a mole hill
all the guys complaining about dead money. For the most part, I haven't heard you guys advocate swallowing the pill and tanking a season as a way to solve any salary cap dilemmas so there wouldn't be future dead money on the cap.
Besides complaining about the dead money element of the Baas' restructures when they occurred, did any of you guys give a credible alternative solution to the cap issue at the time? I certainly don't remember it.
In a day and age where we see a single player responsible for a nearly $10M dead money cap hit, I think the Giant's total amount is a bit more reasonable.
all the guys complaining about dead money. For the most part, I haven't heard you guys advocate swallowing the pill and tanking a season as a way to solve any salary cap dilemmas so there wouldn't be future dead money on the cap.
Besides complaining about the dead money element of the Baas' restructures when they occurred, did any of you guys give a credible alternative solution to the cap issue at the time? I certainly don't remember it.
In a day and age where we see a single player responsible for a nearly $10M dead money cap hit, I think the Giant's total amount is a bit more reasonable.
Many of us were dead against the Baas restructurings, especially the 2nd one.
They may be a little better off than they have been in the past, but you have to remember that the cap is much higher now that it was just 2 years ago. That means FA salaries will be higher than they have in the past. Lots of holes to fill can eat that money fast.
I think it's safe to say Cruz's days of 99yd TDs are over, but I think they need to use him like a Welker/Edelman type. He can still drive defenses crazy in the slot.
Thanks for clarifying.
I still think they have alot of financial flexibility.
Kiwi just never panned out despite snippets of prowess here and there. He too was hurt at times.
I do believe if we re-sign our own in Eli, JPP and hopefully Prince we will have cap space for a starting OL and FS.
Re-signing Beason was a mistake. He was hurt last year and really hasn't been great since maybe 2010!
Baas was just a bad signing all around. He got way too much money, and never really produced. even when not hurt, he was merely OK, and then Reese doubled down on restructuring him.
Very few booed when Beason was re-signed. it was great: he had an excellent half season with the Giants, and seemed to be over his injury. Then he had a totally different injury and suddenly everyone comes out of the woodwork to proclaim how bad the deal was.
They know he's going to get a big deal, but no player wants to have a one year deal in place. It's why premium players despise the tag. On a long term deal, JPP will get guaranteed money that's 3 times what the tagged year would pay him. Plus he knows the team won't really be able to cut him for 3-4 years due to the dead money.
It's all about what we all want in our professional lives, the highest pay for the longest time possible.
Neither party wants JPP to play the one year under the tag, they both want a deal, and it WILL HAPPEN!!! No doubt, and I would kindly wager with anyone who thinks this won't be the case.
Now Eli will also get extended. His our guy...he's not going anywhere. It will happen and this will give us a big chunk of space to work with. Also, looking at Eric's list of players, Prince and NYG are surely working on a long term deal that will bring his number down. Plus, he is our best CB and we need to lock him up regardless. Now is better since he had an injury, we should be a team friendly deal.
Also, Beason has got to go or take a massive paycut. We can't count on him to stay healthy and that is enough to let him go IMO, besides the cap savings that would allow us to bring in a younger, healthier option.
Weatherford also has take a cut, or bye bye.
We could save 5 million just between Beason and Weathford, that brings us up to 15 mil in space, if Prince,Eli and JPP all get done, we will have 25+ mil in cap space!! That enables JR and CO. to do alot of things in FA
...and McClain gets another 3.5 mil and I believe a roster bonus also. That's a lot of money for a couple old crippled linebackers.
You can't kill Jerry for signing Bass and adjusting Kiwi's contract -- and the dead money is not very significant in the scheme of things. Anyone who could have predicted Bass'es injuries is lying -- he seemed like a solid signing at the time.
heck - sign JPP - and it's believable that you could sign Suh too -- not that I think Jerry is going to -- but it's conceivable
Extending and cutting needs to add minimally another 10M just to get in the game against similar needs competition to sign 3-4 quality veterans.
I don't get it -- if they fill up all the holes -- why are we in cap hell?
Gidie, I would be more inclined to spend that on a good punter if I thought this team was a real contender. I don't think they are going to be that in 2015, so maybe it's a good time to get a younger, cheaper option. Or, restructure and extend Weatherford at a lower rate. He is in good shape and punters have a long shelf life.
Link - ( New Window )
When he's healthy, he makes a big difference.
Do you ever get tired of your schtick?
Looking at the top ten cap numbers isn't exactly a pain-free experience itself.
Weaterford, Jennings and Beason probably will be re-negotiated. Eli may be extended to save more current cap space. I am not sure what is up with Eli, not sure if he really wants to play after this year. The year we moved up to draft Nassib was the year of Eli's infamous comments about football losing importance compared to his wife and children. Reality is, he can retire quite comfortably and not risk serious injury. He no doubt sees and talks with his brother. Peyton dealt with neck pain and arm weakness for a few years before his 1st surgery in May 2011. He had a 2nd, more serious surgery about the beginning of the 2011 season and missed the season. Next year will be (4) years since surgery and Eli is (5) years younger. Just saying.
No doubt
It's amazing how quickly this organization goes though receiving corps which appear stable.
Plax, Smith Toomer -- looks stable, nope
Nicks, Cruz, Manningham -- looks really stable, nope
OBJ, Cruz, Randle -- stable, down goes Cruz, will he get up?
gidiefor : 11:52 am : link : reply
In comment 12161126 Doomster said:
Quote:
this team has a lot of holes to fill, especially on defense....soon as those holes are filled, cap hell begins...
I don't get it -- if they fill up all the holes -- why are we in cap hell?
How much do you think two starting safeties are going to cost?
How much do you think a starting LG/RT will cost?
How much do you think a good starting linebacker will cost? DT? DE?
What does this team have for backups? Yeah, you can fill them with vet mins and get what you pay for.....want to restructure Eli? If you manage to sign JPP long term? Then yes you create space, that you pay for down the road....
I am just trying to make those that think we have all this cap space, realize, yes, we are in better shape than in the past, but this talk of signing Suh, resigning JPP, extending Eli, resigning Prince, all will cost cap money....
The same people are in place, that have made the decisions for the last 5 years.....think they do a 180? This team should have been thinking rebuild mode after the 2011 season, but they had "Jerruh Disease" and wanted to win again in their home stadium....they have delayed that rebuild with poor decisions, and now are faced with a head coach that wants to win now before he leaves....we should have taken care of Eli, instead we stuck him behind poor OL's and made bad decisions in rebuilding this offense.....so once again, what is the plan of the NY Football Giants? They have backed themselves into a corner, with a team in transition, and can't make up their minds whether to play for now or the future....instead they are trying to do both and how has that worked out? Two straight losing seasons, and missing the playoffs 5 out of the last 6 seasons......most on this board seem to forget this....
You can't kill Jerry for signing Bass and adjusting Kiwi's contract -- and the dead money is not very significant in the scheme of things. Anyone who could have predicted Bass'es injuries is lying -- he seemed like a solid signing at the time.
heck - sign JPP - and it's believable that you could sign Suh too -- not that I think Jerry is going to -- but it's conceivable
No but you can kill Jerry for not having an adequate replacement on the roster for O'Hara which would have obviated the need for signing Baas.
No but you can kill Jerry for not having an adequate replacement on the roster for O'Hara which would have obviated the need for signing Baas.
You mean like grooming Adam Koets to be the center after O'Hara, a plan that got wacked by Koets' injury.
In the end, the dead money isn't terrible, the total is around the league average.
But, they have shown a trend in mis-judging OL and LB talent, and arguably being a bit too loyal to players who clearly are compromised in ability.
Besides complaining about the dead money element of the Baas' restructures when they occurred, did any of you guys give a credible alternative solution to the cap issue at the time? I certainly don't remember it.
In a day and age where we see a single player responsible for a nearly $10M dead money cap hit, I think the Giant's total amount is a bit more reasonable.
Besides complaining about the dead money element of the Baas' restructures when they occurred, did any of you guys give a credible alternative solution to the cap issue at the time? I certainly don't remember it.
In a day and age where we see a single player responsible for a nearly $10M dead money cap hit, I think the Giant's total amount is a bit more reasonable.
Many of us were dead against the Baas restructurings, especially the 2nd one.