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Jacquian Williams knows he is not coming back?

NYGIANTS86 : 3/4/2015 8:34 am
This tweet just came through

Jacquian Williams @Jacquian57

Blessed to have been a New York Giant #BestFans #NYG
Sounds like it  
Big Blue '56 : 3/4/2015 8:44 am : link
.
Sounds  
Headhunter : 3/4/2015 8:44 am : link
like goodbye, weird if it isn't
We've seen posts similar in the past that didn't  
jcn56 : 3/4/2015 8:45 am : link
turn out that way though, haven't we? Didn't Prince do that recently?
Best  
AcidTest : 3/4/2015 8:46 am : link
of luck to him if that's the case.
I would think Spags wants a more conventional WILL  
JonC : 3/4/2015 8:48 am : link
and nickel S looks to defend TEs, eg.
jcn56  
Headhunter : 3/4/2015 8:48 am : link
I think Prince's was more nuanced and you didn't get the sense he was saying goodbye like this
Have been  
nyynyg : 3/4/2015 8:49 am : link
is past. He's been told something.
So how do we grade Williams?  
nyynyg : 3/4/2015 8:50 am : link
he's another miss right? Partial miss?
Would be odd to release him at this point, no?  
jcn56 : 3/4/2015 8:52 am : link
He makes peanuts, he's been serviceable and we have other changes to make at the position. I don't think it'd surprise me to learn he was waived, but I figured that'd come after a camp with Spags.
Or Spags has determined  
Headhunter : 3/4/2015 8:54 am : link
he doesn't fit
Jcn56: he's a UFA.  
Big Blue Blogger : 3/4/2015 8:55 am : link
Wouldn't surprise me to see him back on a vet min qualifying deal. Maybe the Giants told him that's all they will offer, and he believes he can do better elsewhere.
RE: So how do we grade Williams?  
NYBEN1963 : 3/4/2015 8:55 am : link
In comment 12162499 nyynyg said:
Quote:
he's another miss right? Partial miss?


He was a 6th round pick that contributed on a superbowl team, I wouldn't consider him a miss. Let's see if he get another contract from another team, if he does not then maybe we could consider him a miss to some extent.
RE: Jcn56: he's a UFA.  
jcn56 : 3/4/2015 8:56 am : link
In comment 12162510 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
Wouldn't surprise me to see him back on a vet min qualifying deal. Maybe the Giants told him that's all they will offer, and he believes he can do better elsewhere.


Thanks B^3, that makes a lot more sense, I didn't realize he was a UFA. Then it was either 'here's the best we can do' or 'don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out'.
He's still chasing the mailman  
Victor in CT : 3/4/2015 8:57 am : link
will be making the contact soon :-)
Or they have  
RetroJint : 3/4/2015 8:57 am : link
determined (finally) that the guy can't play. If this is true then my Hoss Clarke Memorial winner would have been borne out the last 2 years:
'14 Recipient: Monk Meyers TE
'15 REcipient: Jacquian Williams
RE: So how do we grade Williams?  
bigbluescot : 3/4/2015 8:59 am : link
In comment 12162499 nyynyg said:
Quote:
he's another miss right? Partial miss?


Kinda. It's hard to get too bend out of shape about a 6th round pick/202th overall pick who showed early promise but just never kicked on. He definitely had the athletic ability to warrant a late round flyer on him, and while he's never had the consistent production he did flash a bit in his first season. The only real knock is that potential has allowed him to hang around for 3 years where frankly I don't think his play warranted it certainly after the second year.

He'll always have that strip in the NFC Championship game. Even if he didn't ever make another play, that alone made him worth the pick.
He should  
jeff57 : 3/4/2015 9:00 am : link
Time to move on from him.
A player who only  
Stufftherun : 3/4/2015 9:10 am : link
had flashes of what we hoped he'd become ...I don't know that he could have been more disappointing in his development. He often looked lost in space and couldn't keep up with the likes of Jason Witten which was frustrating twice a year. Sure, you can say that about plenty of LB'ers over the years but my memory of #57 will be him chasing #82 down the field and whiffing on tackles.
One note about system fit and JW's size:  
Big Blue Blogger : 3/4/2015 9:10 am : link
He's about two inches taller and only a few pounds lighter than Chris Chamberlain, who started for Spagnuolo in St.Louis and followed him to New Orleans (where he tore his ACL). It looks like less a case of "bad fit" than "bad player".

It's hard to mount much of an argument in JW's favor. He's a cover linebacker who doesn't look particularly good in coverage.
6th round pick who gets you to a Super Bowl  
WillieYoung : 3/4/2015 9:16 am : link
as a rookie with a special teams play and then who starts for 2 years on his rookie contract is not a miss or a partial miss.
Ok player for a late round pick  
BillT : 3/4/2015 9:26 am : link
But never developed into a starting caliber Will. Rave reports out of training camp last year never materialized on the field in the regular season. Always will have fond thoughts of him for that forced fumble against the 49ers.
Dang...  
Randy in CT : 3/4/2015 9:33 am : link
Good luck!
Don't forget too...  
BMac : 3/4/2015 9:34 am : link
...that he suffered a serious concussion that landed him on IR last year. Maybe he's hanging them up, maybe the Giants view him as a significant re-injury risk, or maybe he's just not going to improve.

If indeed he's gone, any or all of these reasons could be in play.
Williams  
Matt in SGS : 3/4/2015 9:39 am : link
was one of those guys who looked like he might break out, a late round draft pick/ undersized LB who earned his way on the field, like Armstead, but for Williams, the injuries just kept him from going to the next level. His knee and then the concussion. We know that Reese is quick to move on from guys who have injury problems early in their career and are going towards their post-rookie deal (see, the biggest deal they get). That's the reality of the NFL however.
RE: A player who only  
Sonic Youth : 3/4/2015 9:44 am : link
In comment 12162545 Stufftherun said:
Quote:
had flashes of what we hoped he'd become ...I don't know that he could have been more disappointing in his development. He often looked lost in space and couldn't keep up with the likes of Jason Witten which was frustrating twice a year. Sure, you can say that about plenty of LB'ers over the years but my memory of #57 will be him chasing #82 down the field and whiffing on tackles.

Wow, THAT'S your memory of Williams? Seems like you're just looking for a reason to be miserable or down on the Giants. He was a 6th round pick who made one of the most instrumental plays in SB history that directly gave us a chance to play in the Superbowl.

That's my memory of him.
RE: So how do we grade Williams?  
Jesse B : 3/4/2015 9:44 am : link
In comment 12162499 nyynyg said:
Quote:
he's another miss right? Partial miss?



Fans expectations for what players should be from the draft are severely inflated. We're talking about a 6th round pick here. He made a play that brought the Giants to a Superbowl they won. He started 17 games the past 2 seasons.


That's a resounding hit for a 6th round pick. You will find few who contributed more--and most don't even make it through their rookie contract. plenty will be cut before making an active roster.
RE: So how do we grade Williams?  
Jay on the Island : 3/4/2015 10:03 am : link
In comment 12162499 nyynyg said:
Quote:
he's another miss right? Partial miss?


How on earth would you consider him a miss? He was a 6th round pick that started for a couple of years and help contribute to a SB title during his rookie year. Unfortunately he didn't develop after his solid rookie year but he still played well at times and can't be considered a miss.
Given our LB situation as it already is  
old man : 3/4/2015 10:23 am : link
we are either going heavy into LB shopping the next 60 days, or going to a 4-2-5 or 4-1-6 base D.
he's not a miss  
fkap : 3/4/2015 10:32 am : link
he simply has never stepped up to the plate when it came time for him to be a quality starter.

As a backup, the only problem I would have is that he's taking up a roster spot from someone who you're hoping will step up to the plate when given a chance. He's not a bad backup for emergency purposes, but he no longer gives one the sense of optimism.
if true, makes sense  
mfsd : 3/4/2015 10:34 am : link
he wasn't a miss - yes he never played consistently as good as we all hoped, but he outplayed a lot of guys drafted before him

And will be remembered for one of the most famous forced fumbles in Giants history
RE: RE: So how do we grade Williams?  
Coach Mason : 3/4/2015 10:38 am : link
In comment 12162688 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 12162499 nyynyg said:


Quote:


he's another miss right? Partial miss?



How on earth would you consider him a miss? He was a 6th round pick that started for a couple of years and help contribute to a SB title during his rookie year. Unfortunately he didn't develop after his solid rookie year but he still played well at times and can't be considered a miss.


This. If he was a top 3 round pick maybe he could be called an under-performer. His issue in my opinion was he couldn't stay healthy and maybe had some trouble grasping Fewell's defense. But he had legit NFL ability.
The place I'd thought he'd excel  
mrvax : 3/4/2015 10:45 am : link
he was terrible at. Coverage.
Shifty RBs even had their way against William's speed.
a sixth round pick ??  
blueblood : 3/4/2015 10:46 am : link
really.. he contributed on a Super Bowl winning team. Made a play that helped us seal the deal in San Fran..

sixth rounders arent even a lock to make the roster..

RE: A player who only  
Randy in CT : 3/4/2015 10:49 am : link
In comment 12162545 Stufftherun said:
Quote:
had flashes of what we hoped he'd become ...I don't know that he could have been more disappointing in his development. He often looked lost in space and couldn't keep up with the likes of Jason Witten which was frustrating twice a year. Sure, you can say that about plenty of LB'ers over the years but my memory of #57 will be him chasing #82 down the field and whiffing on tackles.
Yeah? Not the 6th round pick who directly contributed to a Super Bowl win? That's a shame that your mentality distorts history to be recalled much shittier than reality.
this is why I was asking the question  
nyynyg : 3/4/2015 10:51 am : link
I was interested to see what the general consensus was on him. my assumption is most would be negative but interestingly, i guess as a whole he was not.

Great point on he being a 6th round pick. I didn't factor draft slot as criteria for the question. Yep, he had a key strip, great point. Can't take that from him.

I definitely was hoping for a breakout from him. He seemed to have raw skills and speed for the LB position but it just never happened. I don't however, give a lot of credence to him being a two year starter on this LB squad.
As it bears on this discussion  
mfsd : 3/4/2015 11:03 am : link
here are the Giants 6th rd picks in the last 10 years:

2014: Bennett Jackson
2013: None
2012: Matt McCants
2011: Greg Jones, Tyler Sash, Jacquian Williams
2010: Adrian Tracy
2009: DeAndre Wright
2008: Andre Woodson, Robert Henderson
2007: Adam Koets
2006: None
2005: Eric Moore

So in other words, Williams is our most productive 6th rd pick in a decade.

Note: Bradshaw in 2007 and Kuhn in 2012 are the only guys picked 7th rd who have given us anything in that time
msdf  
nyynyg : 3/4/2015 11:22 am : link
wow is all I can say. would love to have the time to see the hit rate of 6th rounders around the league. but if Williams is our best in a decade, sounds like the Giants should be trading every 6th and 7th to move to the end of the 5th every year. lol
RE: msdf  
mfsd : 3/4/2015 11:46 am : link
In comment 12162864 nyynyg said:
Quote:
wow is all I can say. would love to have the time to see the hit rate of 6th rounders around the league. but if Williams is our best in a decade, sounds like the Giants should be trading every 6th and 7th to move to the end of the 5th every year. lol


yeah it would be interesting to look at a league-wide comparison (my boss is out of the country, but I still can't spare the time to do so myself today!)

I think we're all prone to overrating our own draft picks on draft day out of optimism, but I'd suspect most 6-7th round picks average a year or 2 at most on active roster. Many of them never even stick

The point I was making - Williams never turned into the athletic difference maker we hoped he would, but he was still far more productive than most guys picked where he was or thereabouts
Here's a search feature  
Semipro Lineman : 3/4/2015 12:02 pm : link
on ProFootball Reference draft section that allows you to look at recent draft selections based on the round and other info. The search below is for 6th & 7th round picks in the last ten years sorted by games started. The Colts got three guys in the top 15 spots but I don't see anyone else with a lot of hits. I also noticed that several guys on the list had a large number of starts on a team which didn't draft them. Case in point, Kevin Booth
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: A player who only  
Stufftherun : 3/4/2015 12:22 pm : link
In comment 12162802 Randy in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 12162545 Stufftherun said:


Quote:


had flashes of what we hoped he'd become ...I don't know that he could have been more disappointing in his development. He often looked lost in space and couldn't keep up with the likes of Jason Witten which was frustrating twice a year. Sure, you can say that about plenty of LB'ers over the years but my memory of #57 will be him chasing #82 down the field and whiffing on tackles.

Yeah? Not the 6th round pick who directly contributed to a Super Bowl win? That's a shame that your mentality distorts history to be recalled much shittier than reality.


You're act is tired Radnee. You scan each and every thread, look for something your simple mind attaches itself to and have at it, what a wonderful contributor you are. I think you'll find that most fans who have been paying attention to JDub's career will agree that it's been underwhelming and disappointing, much like yourself. And yeah, he had one helluval Banks-like SB.
RE: Here's a search feature  
mfsd : 3/4/2015 12:22 pm : link
In comment 12162932 Semipro Lineman said:
Quote:
on ProFootball Reference draft section that allows you to look at recent draft selections based on the round and other info. The search below is for 6th & 7th round picks in the last ten years sorted by games started. The Colts got three guys in the top 15 spots but I don't see anyone else with a lot of hits. I also noticed that several guys on the list had a large number of starts on a team which didn't draft them. Case in point, Kevin Booth Link - ( New Window )


thanks for the link! And to your point, Rashad Jennings and Geoff Schwartz were 7th rd picks by other teams
RE: RE: A player who only  
Stufftherun : 3/4/2015 12:32 pm : link
In comment 12162626 Sonic Youth said:
Quote:
In comment 12162545 Stufftherun said:


Quote:


had flashes of what we hoped he'd become ...I don't know that he could have been more disappointing in his development. He often looked lost in space and couldn't keep up with the likes of Jason Witten which was frustrating twice a year. Sure, you can say that about plenty of LB'ers over the years but my memory of #57 will be him chasing #82 down the field and whiffing on tackles.


Wow, THAT'S your memory of Williams? Seems like you're just looking for a reason to be miserable or down on the Giants. He was a 6th round pick who made one of the most instrumental plays in SB history that directly gave us a chance to play in the Superbowl.

That's my memory of him.


Highlighting one momemt out of a career does not cover the totality of a player and while I didn't call him trash or shitty I do think it's safe to call him a disappointment regardless of where he was drafted. As I referenced, he looked like a very promising WILL several seasons ago but he just has not developed, hasn't been healthy and his play has fallen off in my opinion. If the rumors are true, then evidently the coaching staff has evaluated him similarly.
If you start with 6th round pick  
fkap : 3/4/2015 12:34 pm : link
as your measuring stick, he was not a miss.

However, from the beginning, BBI (overall) was drooling over what a steal we got, how he was going to be a good starter. Deny that, lose all credibility. using that as a measuring stick, he didn't measure up.
If u look at how  
area junc : 3/4/2015 1:10 pm : link
Spags plays his WIL lb, he goes with 2 MLB types due to his preference 4 playing the SLB at the LOS in a 50 front

The 50 front plays like a modified 34 with the mlb and wlb stacked in the traditional ILB spots. Spags had k.mitchell then danny clark at that WIL spot

I see kennard at SLb but i could also see kennard at wlb with beasley, moore or another pass rusher at SLB
Well he is a free agent..  
The Tempest : 3/4/2015 1:20 pm : link
he might not be coming back.
Good Luck to him  
The 12th Man : 3/4/2015 1:31 pm : link
no loss.
Thank you  
NYG4246 : 3/4/2015 2:26 pm : link
for knocking the ball from kyle williams...6th round pick well spent.
What is abundantly clear is that some of you have no fucking  
Rob in CT/NYC : 3/4/2015 3:53 pm : link
clue as to how to evaluate a player's contribution versus his draft position. A sixth round pick that plays out his rookie contract, contributes consistently on special teams and on either side of the ball for an extended period of time is a rare commodity. There are first round picks (and not just a few) that have had lesser careers than Williams.

Just about every team, just about every year does a lot worse than Williams in the 6th and 7th.
Rob i understand very well  
The 12th Man : 3/4/2015 4:08 pm : link
he was always a step behind who he was covering and had no closing speed on the ball. he was man-handled on the edge by opposing teams TE and T's. He got washed out on many plays. What did I miss on this low round draft pick. He plaed exactly like one.
RE: Williams  
Big Blue '56 : 3/4/2015 4:09 pm : link
In comment 12162605 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
was one of those guys who looked like he might break out, a late round draft pick/ undersized LB who earned his way on the field, like Armstead, but for Williams, the injuries just kept him from going to the next level. His knee and then the concussion. We know that Reese is quick to move on from guys who have injury problems early in their career and are going towards their post-rookie deal (see, the biggest deal they get). That's the reality of the NFL however.


After his rookie campaign, I thought we had indeed gotten ourselves a steal as with Bradshaw on '07(yes, he was better thought of than JW was coming out)..He never seemed to recover from that knee injury in '12..Perhaps it was more about him playing to his max in '11 and nothing more should have been expected
7 games missed in 2014  
bc4life : 3/4/2015 4:15 pm : link
6 games missed in 2012. the concussion issues.

Lot of wear and tear on that young body
RE: Rob i understand very well  
Rob in CT/NYC : 3/4/2015 4:17 pm : link
In comment 12163531 The 12th Man said:
Quote:
he was always a step behind who he was covering and had no closing speed on the ball. he was man-handled on the edge by opposing teams TE and T's. He got washed out on many plays. What did I miss on this low round draft pick. He plaed exactly like one.


No, he didn't play like one, the point is that most don't play, or even make a team. Finding one that contributes in just about any capacity makes it a worthwhile pick.
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