Raanan: What He is Hearing on Who Stays/Goes...

In comment 12162596 Big Blue Blogger said:

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The "Stay" list is fine, as long as none of those players gets more than a one-year qualifying deal. I would say the same about most of the "Go" list. Stevie Brown should look better after another year post-surgery. I'm still baffled by the money he's been paid - especially last year. Herzlich has improved, though his ceiling still seems pretty low. Paysinger hit his ceiling years ago. Hynoski is OK, as long as he can stay on the field; his role is small, and he plays it pretty well. Jerry is mediocre depth. He's easy to hate because he was starting when he shouldn't have been.

^^^^

Brown played fairly well.

Herzlich actually started to make a few more plays, but, I seem to recall him having some assignment issues, which is troubling for a "smart" LB.

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was hideous last year....I can't imagine them resigning him, even for depth.

Already

In comment 12162706 JonC said:

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Agreed. Keeping both is depressing. Herzlich? Eh. Not an NFL LB, but decent on ST. I could see letting go of Paysinger as well.

@JordanRaanan: The #Giants have been known to significantly up offers day before free agency begins

The Stay List is questionable. I wouldn't hate having Herzlich for depth at SLB and on ST's, but they need to build up the team's linebacker depth so he is not relied on to start more than two games. Same for Paysinger, although he has thoroughly regressed in my mind.

John Jerry I didn't think played too terribly. He had trouble at both RT for a portion of the season and of course a weak link at Center. For depth he's decent. For starting, weak fringe starter. He could challenge guys like Jones for the backup G spot.

It kind of stinks seeing Fells on the Gone List. He played really well, I thought, and was cheap.

Some horrific games, some okay. and there was the injury thing and the new offensive system. and he's cheap.

all those excuses won't be there this year, so they are probably willing to roll the dice on an inexpensive player.

and again - the article is speculative.

might get a better offer

In comment 12162623 Victor in CT said:

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are on perma-scholarship until their rookie contracts expire. He is terrible.

Not really. If he isn't healthy or if he still sucks, he can get cut in one of the initial roster cutdowns.

he was hurt pretty much all last year and ended 2013 decently. I'd at least bring him to camp on a vet min deal. It can't hurt, and at least he's flashed semi recently.

and might not be terrible if your other 4 starting OL are strong.

Have no issue keeping him provided he is meant for depth (which is the likely scenario)

That's an awful 'stay' list.

Herzlich played MUCH better 2nd half of the season, and is pretty good against the run. Plus he contributes on special teams.

As the 40th - 53rd guy on your roster at near vet min, you can do MUCH MUCH worse.

If he's starting that's a problem, but for depth and special teams he's fine.

because there is so much uncertainty across the OL, FA, the draft. He can be expendable later if things go well March, April, May.

had a decent year in 2014. I would like to see them keep Thurmond.

A lot of players may be leaving but not in March. Most of these guys will be on the roster until someone beats them out.

What I don't understand is why anyone would keep a player who doesn't at least have an upside to be a starter. The problem last year isn't that Jerry was a starter. The problem was that neither Mosley or Brewer were capable of being a starter.

Fells did nothing last year that suggests he should not be on the training camp roster. Neither did Jernigan. If backups don't want to accept a vet minimum contract, that's another story.

look to be for ST, almost exclusively.
I would dump that whole list, but that revisits last offseason.

Because he's terrible.

I wouldn't want John Jerry back, even as depth.

we're losing all our depth and Prince needs to be re-signed too.

Looks like we are going to draft Corners. I know Reese is excited.

rolle is the only name that gives me any emotion... and that is from 2 yrs ago not last year.

Stay:

FB Henry Hynoski
LB Spencer Paysinger
CB Chykie Brown
TE Daniel Fells

Go:
S Stevie Brown
LB Mark Herzlich
CB Zack Bowman
OL James Brewer
S Quintin Demps
RB Chris Ogbonnaya
OL John Jerry
WR Jerrel Jernigan
DT Mike Patterson
S Antrel Rolle
OL Adam Snyder
CB Walter Thurmond
LB Jacquian Williams

In comment 12162621 Big Blue Blogger said:

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He's a "plus" special-teams player, though by no means a great one. That's good enough for a one-year qualifying deal, period. If another team offers more, wish him well. If he stays, and a replacement emerges in pre-season, great.

^This.

They will keep who they think fits Spags defense best; they will keep who is healthy (medical records); and, they will keep who they think is $$$ worthy.

They may lose a few players, like CB Thurmond, because that is just the way it is with free agency. I'd personally like to see CB Z. Bowman back for one more year.

LB Mark Herzlich is "heady" and serviceable for the league minimum. He is essentially the last man on the weekly "actives" list IF he makes the team. Remember, signing him to a 1 year league minimum contract does NOT ensure he makes the active roster.

I think much more will be revealed in the next few days. I also believe much, much more will be revealed if Eli extends with a 5 year deal that gives us cap space this year.

Last, I would think Fells comes back for one last year at a league minimum. He is our blocking TE UNLESS they think Robinson is learning that and viable. Or if a younger UFA could be signed and upgrades.

he looked pretty good in his limited playing time. I'm not heart broken about it, but he's probably the only name on the list that I wish was in the stay column.

Except keeping Jerry and losing Fells and Thurmond.

that entire list on both stay and go shows how damn weak our roster is/was. even the ones that contributed prior are past their prime. man, we have a lot of work to do.

both I think we should keep on a team. We need to bolster depth. Good news is most of the list falling off is not solid depth.

In comment 12162775 FranknWeezer said:

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Stay: FB Henry Hynoski LB Spencer Paysinger CB Chykie Brown TE Daniel Fells Go: S Stevie Brown LB Mark Herzlich CB Zack Bowman OL James Brewer S Quintin Demps RB Chris Ogbonnaya OL John Jerry WR Jerrel Jernigan DT Mike Patterson S Antrel Rolle OL Adam Snyder CB Walter Thurmond LB Jacquian Williams

much, much better.

I wonder if we can trade Paysinger to the Eagles for a high draft pick

They would want Paysinger to stay when it appeared that he was in the dog house all last season.

was OK when they switched him to the outside and he's a good special teams player. Paysinger can provide depth at a few LB positions. I always thought he was better than Williams. I'm OK with bringing these guys back.

Bowman gave up on some plays during the year, that's probably why he's gone. I thought he was alright.

Jerry staying is confusing, hopefully he's depth.

S. Brown, I guess he stays because of lack of depth and available talent. Thought C. Brown would at least get another look this year.

and get like a second round pick or something?

before he got here, and sure enough he got hurt.

Them not bringing him back may have less to do with his talent than their ability/desire to pay him what he's worth if he's not reliably available.

In comment 12162798 SGMen said:

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LB Mark Herzlich is "heady" and serviceable for the league minimum. He is essentially the last man on the weekly "actives" list IF he makes the team. Remember, signing him to a 1 year league minimum contract does NOT ensure he makes the active roster.

If he's given a contract and stays healthy, hes making the team and he's going to be active every week.

The "if" you're talking about is what you're rationalizing, not how a Tom Coughlin team is actually usually run (especially in what is his presumably do or die year, with him largely going out on his terms).

In comment 12162577 Curtis in VA said:

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I believe the thinking is, Fells will get an offer the Giants aren't willing to beat, not that they don't want him.Same with Rolle and Thurmond.

like I need a bologna sandwich.

There is no upside there.

most can be keepers.

Stevie Brown: had one good year. got a good paycheck last year and didn't earn it. I can accept that it was payback for previous play. He's at zero, though. Vet min, with incentives. Guaranteeing him anything significant would be a mistake.

Rolle: I'd bring him back for a couple mil. Nothing near what he was making.

Thurmond: he got 3-4 mil for sitting at home. It was a one year show me deal. Why should he get another show me deal?

Other than that, at vet min and no guarantees, most are in the bring them to camp and make them earn a spot category.

and he was a one-year rental anyway. Too bad he hardly got to play for the G-man.

The problem is that you can't get rid of everybody at once unless you are prepared to go into the season with a dozen or more rookie free agents on your roster.

So I would be OK with keeping Stevie Brown as the least bad option (considering both cost and on-field ability) of the trio of their vet FA Safties, Fells because he is the only TE they have that is worth anything more than an old postcard from Disneyland (he's worth at least three old postcards from anywhere), maybe Herzlich who did play better down the stretch last year, and maybe Zack Brown who is a good gunner and can be an OK reserve CB. Of course, I'm not sure anybody is a good gunner on Quinn's special teams.

He's a better blocker than any of the TEs on the roster, and at least as good a receiver. They should use him more.

Is shorter and less athletic then fells amd Donnel. He is a decent ball catcher and has good hands but his catch radius had to be significantly smaller then the TE's. His best asset is he can do a little of everything, he can block catch and run. He is a good fb, I would keep him at vet minimum. He also seems bright and a good team mate. Probably very assignment sound. I wouldn't feature him as a prime read often though in the passing game.

I was surprised they resigned him last year. I'm not saying I think Kuhn is better and I don't know what Bromley can do yet, but Patterson ate into the development of those guys and didn't offer much in hindsight. A real solid run stuffing DT to complement Hankins and Bromley would be a nice addition in the draft.

Ipay also have to do with health. He missed a lot of games due to concussion. Not something to mess with. Hope he is ok, he is a giant hero for his special teams efforts his rookie year.

Herzlich and Jerry don't interest me. Among the 'goes' I'd explore the price on re-signing Thurmond. He's a talented slot CB and we could use him. The price would have to be right.

at lb again. Good STs player though

In comment 12162577 Curtis in VA said:

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Much better player than the JPP of tight ends. Every time Fells played a few snaps here & there, he got the job done.

that is a useless young player we drafted rather high? That weasel has to be cut also.

id rather jacquan williams over paysinger any day of the year.....id keep Fells, Thurmond, Rolle (right price), Snyder, and of course Hynoski, Herzlich for insurance....not really a john jerry fan

and am surprised they would let any cornerback go, you just need piles of them in this league, and yet almost certainly cannot afford to value it very highly in the draft.

I do believe that spags can use herzlich as well as any of our other 'cannot cover' linebackers or any 'cannot cover' free agent linebackers, at the right price.