| The Justice Department reports that its investigation into law enforcement in Ferguson, Mo., found that the police and courts meted out illegal and unduly harsh treatment, particularly to black people. One of the reports released Wednesday, "Investigation of the Ferguson Police Department," says the mistreatment is due to discrimination, and a primary focus on maximizing city revenue through citations, not to keeping the peace. |
| Ferguson's Municipal Court, which is actually run by the chief of police, is part of the city's revenue-raising machinery, the report found, with court officials routinely levying excessive fines and fees, and violating people's rights. |
| Black people in Ferguson regularly report racial epithets being used against them by police officers, but a search of city e-mail accounts by the Justice Department also showed many racist remarks casually traded by police supervisors and court officials. |
| The Justice Department also found that officers regularly exceed their authority and mistreat people. |
If you think this isn't status quo anywhere besides some backward part of Missouri, don't know what to tell you.
The Ferguson Police Department: The Justice Department Report, Annotated - (
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It says a lot more about you.
I know what I am saying is correct. It is based on experienced and education. If anything, what I have learned is that race relations are not going to change in any expedited manner because it what is thought by many here is really enabling, and makes it acceptable to place the blame for their failures on others.
This whole thing while funny on one level is sad too for these reasons. And it ignores the real issues which none of you seem able to deal with...so the beat goes on, nothing will change.
Obama nailed it in the speech I linked earlier really...In between being called a racist, a bigot etc...you guys should have read it.
Really? So tell me then... what racist experiences have you experienced? What education have you had on the subject? What literature have you read (besides the articles you've linked... one of which you've quoted over and over again)? Besides the horror stories your friends have told you, what stories of racism have you personally seen and experienced in person?
Answer those questions... if you dare.
Which article did I quote over and over over again? Please be specific or admit that once again you guys are just making shit up
Agreed.
A friend who worked from me would tell me about getting pulled over and harassed by cops. African, middle class engineer, speaks like 5 languages...wife worked at UN.
Others were general stories..
Also have the other side too, criminals thugs, like takers, drug dealers, gang bangers....
also experience with pedophiles....they are the creepiest to talk to.
A friend who worked from me would tell me about getting pulled over and harassed by cops. African, middle class engineer, speaks like 5 languages...wife worked at UN.
Others were general stories..
Also have the other side too, criminals thugs, like takers, drug dealers, gang bangers....
also experience with pedophiles....they are the creepiest to talk to.
Maybe I didn't make myself clear... what racist experiences have YOU had.
Also, if you could name just one of those books you've read (along with the author if you can), that would be helpful as well.
The reason I ask is because I'd like to read whoever or whatever you read that gave you the idea that ending black on black crime will end racism. Or is that a concept you came up with on your own?
Have I been discriminated against since I am Jewish? Not sure. Maybe...However I have had plenty of obstacles in life and nothing was ever going to stop me really.
I see you can't show the article you claim I quoted over and over since you made that shit up as usual.
How did I come to the conclusion that racism is based on fear? And that the high violent crime rates associated with blacks in America generates fear thus generating racism.......You need me to connect those dots?
Lets see
Posters opposing me caught in several lies and misstatements about things i have said
Called a bigot, a racist, even a nazi
Posters here oppose each other but unwilling to note the differences even when I point them out..
I put my entire thoughts out there and you guys can't address them You say you have but you haven't
But somehow that hurts my argument when someone asks what my education is?
How come every thread you post on ends up in an argument?
We are all the same. Black, white, brown
Racism and abuse by cops represents a very small amount of the issue effecting black progress yet receives most of the attention.
The real issue is black on black crime, drug laws and use, incarceration rates, babies having babies.
Racism is born out of fear. As long as black represent a vast % per capita of violent crime, and black men have criminals records at a rate of 1/3 there will be continued fear resulting in racism.
Cops are not naturally racist but become conditioned by working in black communities where the crime is. This is also evidenced by the same behavior being perpetuated by black cops. It is not a blue thing as Tbone noted but a conditioned thing.
I believe that solutions should include providing a path to a clean record and education for non violent offenders. Fix drug laws. Education and discouragement or de-incentivize babies having babies.
The continued murder of kids in inner cites represents an issue yet no one talks about it, protests, starts threads here but the hint of a white cop killing an innocent kid starts riots shows a misplacement of rage.
Of all of your ridiculous statements, that is the most pathetic. And insulting.
Sociology 101 hardly qualifies for that
This is in response to cops, racism and effects therein. You guys can't seem to manage multiple concepts ocurring at the same time resulting in different effects.
My point all along is that the high violent crime rates helps perpetuate fear which increases racism.
This idea of racist cops running rampant and causing the problems facing black communities such as poverty, crime, drugs, incarceration, is ridiculous and is putting the cart before the horse.
What's the percent of Giants fans in Philly like?
OK...seriously though, I am friends with a person who is very nice, he is not racist, and has treated me quite well.
But, he is from Texas, no college education, smart, but not educated and this has caused a huge argument.
Back when the riots happened he claimed this was just a bunch of welfare bums who had nothing better to do than blame somebody. I tried then saying, this probably was the manifestation of simmering tension between a black community and a poorly trained police department which did not practice community policing and have a cooperative relationship.
I also said the lack of minority representation was a problem because communities need advocates, role models, and trust. Having 3 black cops, it just gives off a bad perception.
He started by saying...maybe they only have 3 black officers because the residents are bums, why should they spend money targeting minorities instead of the best cop available. He told me when he listens to a rap station it angers him that they advertise for police officers on that network. Why should they be prioritizing one race.
I explained, there is a history of deep seeded mistrust between cops and minorities, that many view them as hostile, and they need to mend fences to encourage people to be recruited. He just repeated that why should they hire crocks.
I told him about the civil rights violations. His response was, don't break the law. When I told him it was over non sense like jaywalking, to people trying to get to work at Wal Mart because they have NO car and public transit has been slashed by republicans who don't want to pay taxes, that the cops were basically tax collectors, he said...the person should have left 5 minutes earlier.
He said if racism is alive, then why does he have black friends who have careers and nice cars?
It went on, and on, and on.
This is an otherwise nice person, who is a good friend, otherwise I'd just ignore him. I find it VERY hard to deal with this an ignore...how do YOU folks handle people like this who you have to deal with regularly?
Some people just see a binary world, they don't know there are many points of view that cannot be generalized at the macro level. Very frustrating.
"The City Council and John Shaw feel this is the appropriate time to move forward as we begin our search for a new city manager," Ferguson Mayor James Knowles III said in a statement.
Hired by Ferguson in 2007, Shaw served as the city's chief executive, putting him in charge of the courts and police force said by the Department of Justice to have practiced "intentional discrimination, as demonstrated by direct evidence of racial bias and stereotyping about African Americans by certain Ferguson police and municipal court officials."
Simple answer, at some point it's probably best not to continue trying to debate with someone who has their mind made up (no matter how wrong they may be). I should've followed my own advice a long time ago with regards to this thread. Some people will have a particular mindset towards most everything and everyone and no amount of evidence contrary to their beliefs will change their minds. He seems dead set on saying that people won't accept blame (or making excuses) for their behavior... while making every excuse in the book to support his own views.
I know of more than a few black folks who place all of the struggles of black people in America on the 'white man' and yet doesn't want to acknowledge that we share in some of the blame for our own struggles due to various reasons. As you probably know, it can and does go both ways. It can be very frustrating because if you dare suggest that black people can and should change our mindset with regards to how we deal with certain issues, you're called a 'sell out' or 'Uncle Tom'. I usually just avoid these people or if I can't, I just don't have those kinds of conversations with them anymore.
You say he's your friend and supposedly a 'good guy' so I'm not going to suggest staying away from him (that wouldn't be my place anyway... you're an adult, you befriend who you want of course), but in the future you may just want to avoid debates/arguments regarding that particular issue with him as he's seems dead set on placing complete and total blame on a group of people instead of acknowledging that blame can and should... be placed on both sides.
I thought for awhile that liberal arts was a bunch of useless shit that won't help you get a job; but now I see the value that kind of education can have on people.
Maybe this is enough to delete this mess?
Quote:
Time to bulldoze that fucking shithole.
Maybe this is enough to delete this mess?
Animals? That's some seriously racist shit right there. Forget deleting the thread. BAN the poster.
What kind of stupid bullshit is this? What does this have to do with "Eric Holder and the administration".
Does this somehow absolve the findings of the DOJ? Are you trying to justify it? Can you explain to me how "Eric Holder and the administration" have anything to do with this?
Are you just speaking partisan bullshit out of your ass?
Only in the mind of someone blinded by partisanship with a clear agenda does this have any reflection on "Eric Holder and the administration".
As if somehow, this incident means that Ferguson PD just wasn't so bad after all, right?
But nah, its cool... this shooting definitely means Eric Holder has egg on his face for calling out a police department as rampantly racist and despicable.
I'm sure this has more to do with Eric Holder and the administration than the way the police department has treated the residents of the city.
(note: obviously the idiots who actually shot are most responsible).
Quote:
In comment 12178079 Giants4246 said:
Quote:
Time to bulldoze that fucking shithole.
Maybe this is enough to delete this mess?
Animals? That's some seriously racist shit right there. Forget deleting the thread. BAN the poster.
Fuck off asswipe. Yes, they're fucking animals. Whats racist about it? Burning the town to the ground, shooting at cops, what else would you call them? Why dont you go down to ferguson and volunteer your time to help clean up that mess?
What an idiotic comment to make..lol
Quote:
In comment 12178089 BMac said:
Quote:
In comment 12178079 Giants4246 said:
Quote:
Time to bulldoze that fucking shithole.
Maybe this is enough to delete this mess?
Animals? That's some seriously racist shit right there. Forget deleting the thread. BAN the poster.
Fuck off asswipe. Yes, they're fucking animals. Whats racist about it? Burning the town to the ground, shooting at cops, what else would you call them? Why dont you go down to ferguson and volunteer your time to help clean up that mess?
Why don't you do the same?
Quote:
In comment 12178238 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
In comment 12178089 BMac said:
Quote:
In comment 12178079 Giants4246 said:
Quote:
Time to bulldoze that fucking shithole.
Maybe this is enough to delete this mess?
Animals? That's some seriously racist shit right there. Forget deleting the thread. BAN the poster.
Fuck off asswipe. Yes, they're fucking animals. Whats racist about it? Burning the town to the ground, shooting at cops, what else would you call them? Why dont you go down to ferguson and volunteer your time to help clean up that mess?
Why don't you do the same?
You couldn't pay me to go that shithole for any reason, that's why. Why don't you?
Animals? That's some seriously racist shit right there. Forget deleting the thread. BAN the poster.
Fuck off asswipe. Yes, they're fucking animals. Whats racist about it? Burning the town to the ground, shooting at cops, what else would you call them? Why dont you go down to ferguson and volunteer your time to help clean up that mess?
Why don't you do the same?
You couldn't pay me to go that shithole for any reason, that's why. Why don't you?
Absolutely disgusting. Some low people on this board.
So, how could you test that hypothesis? Well, here’s an experiment: change the structure of the economy in such a way that a large class of white men — say, white men without a college degree — similarly lose access to good jobs. If Wilson was right, we’d expect to see a sharp decline in stable marriages, a rise in unwed births, growing drug use, and other forms of social disruption.
And that is, in fact, exactly what happened: William Julius Wilson was right. Which makes it remarkable to see people look at that very evidence and say that it shows that the real problem isn’t money, it’s values."
When Values Disappear - ( New Window )
Many Conservatives are Blowing it on the Ferguson DOJ Report
Their reaction is neither fair, accurate, nor good for America.
It starts with ...
It’s unfortunate, the way news is consumed and interpreted in the age of twitter. Everyone feels tremendous pressure to form an opinion quickly and state it loudly and with certainty. Once this has been done, people are highly resistant to changing their minds and they become impervious to new evidence, often dismissing out of hand outright facts just because they are reported by a given source (e.g., “the media is untrustworthy” or “you can’t trust the Holder Department of Justice.”) Perhaps nowhere has this phenomenon been more obvious (or regrettable) than in Ferguson, Missouri, in the wake of the shooting death of Michael Brown. Interpreting the news out of Ferguson has become a part of ideological tribalism in which, if you are a conservative you stand for the Ferguson PD and if you are a liberal you stand against them. Thus, liberals have become highly resistant to assimilating information that strongly suggests that “hands up, don’t shoot” never happened. Conservatives, on the other hand, have become highly resistant to assimilating information that strongly suggests that the Ferguson PD – as with many other municipal police departments in the country – truly is out of control, in that it recklessly violates the constitutional rights of the citizens of Ferguson and does so in a manner that has a clearly disproportionate impact on minorities.
I took the time over the weekend to read the entirety of the 102-page Department of Justice report on the Ferguson PD (“FPD”). I cannot recommend highly enough that you do the same. During the course of this reading, I intentionally read it with as jaundiced of an eye towards the Department of Justice as possible. I intentionally disregarded all commentary regarding what the DOJ investigators reported that they saw, and also all of their reported interviews of the citizens of Ferguson and FPD officers. I decided to say to myself, let’s assume that everything DOJ says is a lie, and also that everyone who was willing to talk to the DOJ during the course of their investigation either lied or shaded the truth. What remained astounded me.
Even if you read only the parts of the Ferguson DOJ report that come directly from the files of the FPD (which is to say, files that would be most favorable to the Department), the report paints an incredibly damning picture of the Ferguson Police Department. No conservative on earth should feel comfortable with the way the Ferguson PD has been operating for years, even according to their own documents.
The writer details the FPD records and ends with ...
Until we, as a people, are willing to understand and address the problem, it will never get better. Until we are willing to hold our municipal officials accountable for using the police force to suck money out of people’s pockets instead of legitimately protecting the public safety, the problem will get worse. But most importantly, until and unless we are able to emotionally detach ourselves from the horrible Michael Brown situation and see that what has been exposed, even according to the (probably whitewashed) FPD records, is a travesty, there is no hope for improvement.
And I categorically reject and condemn the claim that this report or President Obama’s comments upon it led to the shooting of those two officers in Ferguson. Like everyone else, I deplore and condemn these acts of unjust violence. But the fact that they occurred does not mean that the truth behind the report caused them. It is possible to condemn unjust and oppressive policing and also the unprovoked murder of police, and it is indicative of societal sickness caused by excessive partisanship that makes us unable to see that.
We can do better than our response to the Ferguson DOJ report. And our country deserves better from us.
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At this point, I think the people of Ferguson deserve medals for acting as PASSIVELY as they did. Holy shit. I believe the entire department needs to be shit-canned and turned over to State Police or National Guard until this is resolved.
"Ferguson averaged 567 non-traffic related court cases per 1,000 residents—far and away the highest of any town in the state and more than twice as much as the town with the second highest average. To put that into perspective, the city of St. Louis had 80 non-traffic court cases per 1,000 residents and that's actually above the state average for Missouri."
In Ferguson, Court Fines And Fees Fuel Anger - ( New Window )
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