Don't Shoot the Messenger...Latest Rumors...

In comment 12164230 Old Dirty said:

Quote:

And a starting guard in the first wave and we're in good shape. We can focus on BPA in the draft. There will be DTs and linebackers available that can help us when the dust settles. I believe our top priority is a safety and we're in good shape. No need to panic.

Agreed on top two priorities in FA, no doubt. DL prob top priority in draft imo.

and moore should be 28c. big difference between those two.

i would be absolutely dumfounded if the giants went after suh with a big offer. can't believe that could happen.

if we could get mccourty and either rodney hudson, clint boling, or stefan wisnewski.

Suh would help this team, I'd sign up for McCourty and sime Oline help.

Quote:

Going into 2015, as far as we know, the Giants DTs are pretty healthy, so the need isn't there to go all in on Suh. Going after safety help makes much more sense. My guess is Suh ends up in Miami when it's all said and done.

good points....and just hankins alone is better than any DT we had back then.. Even if we did have the two established but hurt, vets...

three of those make me happy. The JPP talks possibly stalling, not so much.

In comment 12164092 mrvax said:

Quote:

In comment 12164086 speedywheels said: Quote: Why should this year be any different? We had one poster last year who declared the season over on March 12th. That SOB was right!

He wasn't right about shit. He made his prediction before FA, before the injuries. In fact, he based it on a roster that had about 15 guys on the actual 53 when the season started.

He also said Bromley would suck because he had "lumpy calves". So there's that.

In comment 12164195 jayg5 said:

Quote:

But there are other free agent dt's available Jared Odrick Stephen Paea Corey Peters Dan Williams

Williams is a fine choice at half the cost of Suh.

In comment 12164132 Klaatu said:

Quote:

In comment 12164129 ADeP7 said: Quote: Dallas oline is going to dominate us again Exactly. Because there's absolutely nothing the Giants can do between now and the start of the season to improve their defense. It sucks to be us.

It's not gonna be easy (by that I mean pretty much impossible) to find someone who can counter the interior of the cowboys oline let alone dominate them the way suh did

The players leverage is he's going to get a big guaranteed one year payday that is generally detrimental to a teams salary cap maneuverability.

The teams leverage is the injury risk incurred playing without the safety net inherent in a long term deal. This is a fact certainly not lost on JPP and his team given that he's already undergone serious back surgery.

Hard to quantify but to me it's pretty much a wash in terms 'leverage'.

would still want to get Rolle resigned if possible.

In comment 12164195 jayg5 said:

Quote:

But there are other free agent dt's available Jared Odrick Stephen Paea Corey Peters Dan Williams

Stephen Paea we took Miles Austin over him LOL

how much.. and how long is the deal..

i think Giants are probably somewhere around a 5 year 60 deal in paper.. but the guaranteed money in the signing bonus is the issue. Giants more than likely want a lower number so if his back goes out on him he can be cut.. JPP of course wants more money up front..

I dont see this deal being any longer than 4-6 years so JPP can try to cash in again when he is in his early 30's

Love him but isn't he going to command a lot? That's a lot of coin being allocated to our secondary. Rahim Moore is the person I thought we would target and, given the # of teams who will be throwing big dollars at McCourty, I can see Moore winding up here. In spite of his playoff blunder against the Ravens, he's a solid FS. I loved him coming out of UCLA. He's now entering his prime and is by all accounts a hard-working player well liked by his teammates. In a down year coming off a serious injury, he had 4ints and 50 tackles. Showed improvement as the season wore on and now fully recovered, he may be on the verge of breaking out.

McCourty or Moore would solve out lack of a centerfielder but we still need at least one more safety. If we don't sign another I think Landon Collins comes into play some time in the first two rounds. I could see the Giants targeting him as Rolle's heir.

I'd be up for that and a Dline or two in FA. A depth OL guy or two and then use the draft to load up the offense.

In comment 12164540 Mr. Nickels said:

Quote:

In comment 12164195 jayg5 said: Quote: But there are other free agent dt's available Jared Odrick Stephen Paea Corey Peters Dan Williams Stephen Paea we took Miles Austin over him LOL

draft second guessing can go on every year for every team in almost every round, but I think you meant Marvin.

It's true the draft is fertile ground for second guessing. On the other hand I think most would agree we've missed on too many premium draft picks(first three rounds) in recent years. Even our 4th rounders should be contributing more than we've gotten from them imo.

Beckum
Barden
Sintim
Dillard
Brewer
Jernigan
Austin
Mosley
Hosley

Harsh indictment of our scouts and front office.

without seeing how our rate of success with 1, 2, and 3rd round picks compares against the rest of the league.

most teams miss on most mid round picks.

Bottom line is the Giants have struggled the last few years for a number of reasons:

They missed on 2011 2nd and 3rd rounders.
They missed on 2012 1st and 3rd rounders and Randle has taken some time to develop.

Guys like Snee and Baas all but retired overnight. It's uncommon to see two guys in their early 30s basically go from good to done in the span of one off-season.

The giants hit three HRs in the first three rounds of the 2008 draft only to see all three of those players retire due to injury. This cannot be overstated. The Giants were ready to hitch their wagon to Phillips, Thomas and Mario only to eventually let all 3 players walk via FA because those players were all but done.

The Giants hit HRs in the 2007 draft only to see guys like Boss, Smith and ALford retire early due to injury.

They lost Chad Smith to career ending injury.

Couple all those career enders with the typical nagging injuries that every team sustains, and the Giants have had more than their share, and you have a team that has endured an insane amount of injuries. In short, the Giants have had literally NO margin for error in the last 4-5-6 drafts. And the product on the field has suffered.

You can only overcome so many injuries and even if they had stayed healthy these last few years, the roster was taking on water due to age and some misses in the draft. It was inevitable but things look to be turning around. The team looked better over the last 8 or so games last year than it has since early 2012. I think the franchise hit rock bottom in Jacksonville last year and slowly started digging their way back to respectability the rest of the season.

Damn, the Chili Peppers aren't going to be the same

just too many injuries to overcome for a franchise that had been picking in the latter parts of the draft more often than not and was forced to compensate for some of the career ending injuries by over-spending in FA.

The Giants made their bed I am not making excuses but a GM and scouting Dept can only do so much. At some point luck plays a part. The Giants haven't been very lucky lately. The luck was running out even when they were winning their 4th super bowl title and 2nd in 5 years. The chicken came home to roost the last 2 years.

? YEa that's the one...

In comment 12164695 Torrag said:

Quote:

It's true the draft is fertile ground for second guessing. On the other hand I think most would agree we've missed on too many premium draft picks(first three rounds) in recent years. Even our 4th rounders should be contributing more than we've gotten from them imo. Beckum Barden Sintim Dillard Brewer Jernigan Austin Mosley Hosley Harsh indictment of our scouts and front office.

Brutal list. Cringe-worthy.

In comment 12164835 Dave in Hoboken said:

Quote:

In comment 12164695 Torrag said: Quote: It's true the draft is fertile ground for second guessing. On the other hand I think most would agree we've missed on too many premium draft picks(first three rounds) in recent years. Even our 4th rounders should be contributing more than we've gotten from them imo. Beckum Barden Sintim Dillard Brewer Jernigan Austin Mosley Hosley Harsh indictment of our scouts and front office. Brutal list. Cringe-worthy.

Yep... anyone who tunes out after the 2nd round of the draft should read that list, look at our record the last few years and connect the dots.

is pointless, but it sure would be fun to blast away at the slew of morons frequenting these threads this time of year.

In comment 12164017 figgy2989 said:

Quote:

MCourty! Yes please..

agreed

Would love to see McCourty here.

I wonder if JPP signed the "tag" contract yet? Or if his agent is shopping him?

a monkey can do it. Its lazy and doesn't require anything other than looking up a name and remembering if he did anything for the team or not. Then you point at JR and feel superior, yadda yadda yadda.

I by no means excuse poor drafts, but i'm not ignorant enough to finger point when I know no more than the next fan about who would have worked out for us and who wouldn't. Too many factors (health, bad coaching, lack of luck, etc).

of this place was thrilled or accepting when they were drafted because we believed in our mock drafts, observations, watching them in college they were going to be good players, I guess Reese did also that's why he drafted them. Now a few years later, no one wants to claim ownership around here for loving or liking the picks when they were made and throw Reese under the bus and distance themselves and never acknowledging how happy they were when those guys were drafted.

Shoot me...

Also heard Reese shopping Nassim for a 3rd .

is he any good? I was thinking a 1st...

.

I want Suh, I want Suh! Go become a Redskins fan, that is probably where he will end up.

.

In comment 12165232 cvicszasz said:

Quote:

Shoot me... Also heard Reese shopping Nassim for a 3rd .

That makes 0 sense to me. This is the first back up QB since Warner that has looked half decent running the offense (even if only preseason). In fact he had a better preseason than Eli did. Also Eli though a model of durability is 34. I would be pretty unhappy to give up a solid insurance policy for the most important position on the team especially for just a 3rd.

that if Eli is lost for an extended period of time, the team will struggle. The regime might have their eye on an upgrade with the pick in return, or a player that might quickly become a starter.

They can sign an equitable backup QB.

In comment 12165282 Coach Mason said:

Quote:

In comment 12165232 cvicszasz said: Quote: Shoot me... Also heard Reese shopping Nassim for a 3rd . That makes 0 sense to me. This is the first back up QB since Warner that has looked half decent running the offense (even if only preseason). In fact he had a better preseason than Eli did. Also Eli though a model of durability is 34. I would be pretty unhappy to give up a solid insurance policy for the most important position on the team especially for just a 3rd.

You get a 3rd for Nassib, you run to the phone to accept. I don't see anyone offering a 3rd however...

makes sense if the Giants plan to extend Eli.

it depends on the rest of your off season and cap space. Do you think you will get a decent backup cheaper than Nassib? I don't think you want a rookie as your primary backup, so that leaves you with needing to still fill that slot with a veteran. is a 3rd round pick going to make up for that?

of course, I never thought they would get more than that for Nassib under any circumstances, so i always thought the calls to trade him were moot and pure fantasy.

at the QB position.

AJ Feeley turned a 75 QB rating into a 2nd round pick.

Matt Schaub cost 2 2nd round picks

Kevin Kolb yielded DRC and a 2nd round pick

Matt Cassel (and Vrabel) yielded the 34th pick in the draft

and there are a lot more...

Granted Nassib hasn't played a meaningful down in an actual NFL game, but a 3rd might be realistic given the stupidity around the QB position

Thomasarea junc confirms it.

But I really liked what I saw out of Nassib last year. Giants also spent a 4th to get him. So Giants would only be netting a 1 round 'value' for him while investing a few years of developing him. Now if there is some 'sleeper' QB they are in love with perhaps it makes some sense but otherwise I'd prefer to hold on to Nassib.

In comment 12165311 Matt M. said:

Quote:

it depends on the rest of your off season and cap space. Do you think you will get a decent backup cheaper than Nassib? I don't think you want a rookie as your primary backup, so that leaves you with needing to still fill that slot with a veteran. is a 3rd round pick going to make up for that? of course, I never thought they would get more than that for Nassib under any circumstances, so i always thought the calls to trade him were moot and pure fantasy.

Yes, a 3rd round pick will make up for that. If Eli gets hurt, Nassib isn't going to save the season. I'd rather have the extra 3rd rounder.

All of those came after brief periods of success that the other team was hoping to cash in on. Nassib's only claim to fame is having a good camp this past summer. I can't see any team trading enough to make it worthwhile. For a team to do that, they have to be willing to at least consider having him vie for a starting spot. Is any team crazy enough to do that?

and that's a good thing.

I'd heard they were shopping him for a #2, perhaps a #3 is the trigger.

Don't sell yourself short. You are more than ignorant enough...

In comment 12165323 Matt M. said:

Quote:

All of those came after brief periods of success that the other team was hoping to cash in on. Nassib's only claim to fame is having a good camp this past summer. I can't see any team trading enough to make it worthwhile. For a team to do that, they have to be willing to at least consider having him vie for a starting spot. Is any team crazy enough to do that?

Don't know, that's why it's not a 2nd round pick though like (at least) in all the examples I provided.

runneth over?

It's not so much about saving the season as it is not losing the season. The real answer to that is not simple because other factors would be in play? How log would Eli be out? Where are the Giants in the standings? How does the team look overall. Etc.

If some of these loons were correct and the Giants were offered a #2, i would agree you jump on it. A #3 is still worth consideration, but not a slam dunk, in my opinion.

Fans are supposed to get excited when our team drafts a player. Why? Because we have an expectation they will contribute to our success. The professionals employed by our owners hand picked them from the available prospects. The idea we can't criticize or be disappointed with our recent draft success is just plain dumb. The owner recently did so himself...publicly. It isn't a secret.