NFT: Radiant Heated Floors

and a lot more details are needed. Are you talking about a whole house? Specific rooms? On a slab, crawl space, or basement? Fuel is NG, oil, propane, or electric? What part of the country? How old is the house? How are the floors that you want to reuse installed? What is your level of experience?

In comment 12164848 oghwga said:

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and a lot more details are needed. Are you talking about a whole house? Specific rooms? On a slab, crawl space, or basement? Fuel is NG, oil, propane, or electric? What part of the country? How old is the house? How are the floors that you want to reuse installed? What is your level of experience?

Oh, I am in way over my head. We want to do the living room/dining room area. I'd say it is about a 15' by 40' room. I don't know what is under the wood floor right now. I'm guessing it is just plywood. I live on Long Island. The house was build in the 50s, I believe. I don't know how the current wood is installed. We didn't move in yet. We are closing soon.

oghwha raises a bunch of valid questions, but not a lot of guidance, so I'll throw in what I know.

So, if we decide to go with tile I was thinking about radiant heating the floors. This is all new to me so any information will be extremely helpful. Are some better than others? I see ones that work on electricity. I see others that run hot water through a hose. I don't know what I would prefer.

We have radiant heat in our kitchen and absolutely love it; it's pec (plastic) tubing through which runs hot water under the ceramic tile floor. There are hot spots, just because of the way the tubing is run and, I suppose, the feed from the source, but it's the coziest room in a drafty house. Depending on how your house is heated, I would stay with the same source, but a big factor in cost is how/where your plumbing (if using the hot water) can feed the tubing and how you conceal the source pipes/tubing. In other words, does existing, potential hot water source for pec tubing run to an efficient laying down of the tubing in the sub-floor before the tile is overlaid in the cement float?
Electric would be less of an issue that way but maybe more expensive. Radiant heat is beautiful, to me, because once the tiles are warm, they retain the warmth long after the thermostat has done calling. We're thinking of re-laying our LR floor with stone and using radiant, draftiest room in house, but our plumber cautioned on using two different heating sources (base board + radiant) in one space because of difficulty in modulating. We used it in kitchen because it had no baseboard existing.

I worked on a deal with a ceramic tile manuf', and ceramic can be made to look like almost any other surface, pretty genuinely, but if you are going to go with tile and ignore the wife's wishes (at your peril, lol), consider actual tile looking tile, it looks great wears well. I've not seen tile made to look like wood (how would the linear grouting/spacing work that way and appear to be wood planks?). I wouldn't want an artificial looking floor surface. all fwiw

If you have a basement, and the joist bays are exposed, you can retrofit in hot water radiant. It is pricey, and competent contractors are rare. It is great when it works correctly but since you already have another heat source it can throw your system out of balance which is why when it is added in to an existing home, it is usually just used in specific areas like kitchens and bathrooms, and then usually it is electric mat under tile.

Hot water under the floor requires different temperatures than hw baseboard and will require a separate pump and controller.

It sounds like you are excited and full of ideas for your new home and that is great. My advice is to do nothing for six months. Live in it. See what works and what doesn't and adjust your wish list from there.

I've had clients rush to spend money on changes only to be undone later when their needs changed. New kitchen floors only to decide they really couldn't live with the kitchen the way it was. Update a bathroom only to wish they would have left more space for a closet. Or money spent quickly on window treatments only to have to struggle for funds when the chimney needed relining.

You get the picture.

Something about the maintenance and probability of failure there that doesn't sit well by me. In particular, the PEX/water heated floors.

Then again, that's how I look at everything, just trying to figure out what's going to break/fail first.

new bathroom and kitchen, both electric and removed baseboard heat, both over porcelain tile.... Awesome. Would love to do my living room as well but that is a tad large for right now ($$$$ wise).

In comment 12164924 oghwga said:

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If you have a basement, and the joist bays are exposed, you can retrofit in hot water radiant. It is pricey, and competent contractors are rare. It is great when it works correctly but since you already have another heat source it can throw your system out of balance which is why when it is added in to an existing home, it is usually just used in specific areas like kitchens and bathrooms, and then usually it is electric mat under tile. Hot water under the floor requires different temperatures than hw baseboard and will require a separate pump and controller. It sounds like you are excited and full of ideas for your new home and that is great. My advice is to do nothing for six months. Live in it. See what works and what doesn't and adjust your wish list from there. I've had clients rush to spend money on changes only to be undone later when their needs changed. New kitchen floors only to decide they really couldn't live with the kitchen the way it was. Update a bathroom only to wish they would have left more space for a closet. Or money spent quickly on window treatments only to have to struggle for funds when the chimney needed relining. You get the picture.

The problem with waiting six months is that I don't have time for that. We are having a baby in mid-May and we want the house ready for that time. We don't want to be doing anything at that point in time.

Hey, if it was up to me I would leave the house the way it is. I only plan on living there approximately 5 years or a little longer before we plan on moving. She is just very unhappy with how the wood floors match the rest of the house. We were at her friend's house who has these tiles that look like wood and it was very nice looking and the heat was functioning well.

So, do you think I am better off whitewashing them, bleaching them or putting down tile?

Gutted my first house with my first son due in a month. Lived with plywood floors for six months but we survived.

Good luck.

them stripped, sanded, and refinished before you move in.

If they are laminate pull them out and replace them with anything else but.

In comment 12164978 oghwga said:

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them stripped, sanded, and refinished before you move in. If they are laminate pull them out and replace them with anything else but.

So it will be easier to either whitewash them or bleach them than put tile down?

is the way to go. I have tile in my living room for radiant heat in the slab and hate it. The floor is to hard. Keep tile in living room and bathrooms. Wood floors in living room is nicer than tile.

for tile in the rooms you described. As was mentioned above simply sand it down and stain it to the color that your wife feels matches the house better. When you sell in 5 years you arent cutting off about 1/2 of your buying market who dont love tile and you are saving yourself an incredible amount of money and time.

In comment 12164924 oghwga said:

Quote:

If you have a basement, and the joist bays are exposed, you can retrofit in hot water radiant. It is pricey, and competent contractors are rare. It is great when it works correctly but since you already have another heat source it can throw your system out of balance which is why when it is added in to an existing home, it is usually just used in specific areas like kitchens and bathrooms, and then usually it is electric mat under tile. Hot water under the floor requires different temperatures than hw baseboard and will require a separate pump and controller. It sounds like you are excited and full of ideas for your new home and that is great. My advice is to do nothing for six months. Live in it. See what works and what doesn't and adjust your wish list from there. I've had clients rush to spend money on changes only to be undone later when their needs changed. New kitchen floors only to decide they really couldn't live with the kitchen the way it was. Update a bathroom only to wish they would have left more space for a closet. Or money spent quickly on window treatments only to have to struggle for funds when the chimney needed relining. You get the picture.

Agree with your first para, which is why we went radiant (pec tubing) for the kitchen, which had no existing heat system; and I mentioned what our plumber said re. combining two different systems for same space, but we're going to investigate for LR. We've had radiant in the kitchen for 20 years and (knock wood) no issues.

But, have to ask this question: as to the basement with joist bays exposed and retrofit hot water radiant: wouldn't there be an issue of a gap, a spacing, even if only half an inch, between the retrofit radiant and the floor above? And wouldn't that gap mitigate or significantly reduce the efficiency of heat transfer to the floor above?

It is awesome. Ditra heat. I like their methods too. Plastic suction cup mat under tile. Adds a little softness to the floor. Then a wire is run between the cups throughout the open areas of the floor...Not under cabinets etc...

I don't like the idea of hot water under the floor should an issue arise.

There are different tpes. There are pads with wires in them that can fit in between the floor joists under the floor...they work but are not quite as effective.

heat rises. pex in the joist bays with an aluminum transfer plate is the way to go.

but are their energy savings benefits to heated floors? I never understood the concept of a floor being too cold for someone to step on, but if it can lower your heating bill then I wouldn't have a problem with it.

Will change your perspective on what warm means....

PA Giant - you got that right! Ever so toasty and warm on the feet on cold winter mornings, or when you come inside after shoveling, snowblowing, sledding, etc.

UConn - Beyond the creature comforts of having a warm floor on a cold day, I'm not sure of the energy efficiency comparisons, because it probably requires more BTUs to get the floor warm (because the solid floor has to warm through, like baking bread in the oven) then just baseboard warming the ambient air, but the flipside is that the tile or wood floor retains the heat so much longer, long after the thermostat has stopped calling for temp increase.

ogh - I get that, but any gap has to reduce efficiency of heat transfer

I always have the same question when watching any of the remodel type shows on HGTV. If it saves on heating the room/rest of the house and ultimately saves on overall heating costs, then I could see it. Otherwise, to me, it seems like a very expensive luxury that really isn't needed.

The posts here are very helpful though. Most often, heated floors are mentioned in the kitchen, bathroom, or maybe a mud room or the like on these shows. Now, I know why. Those are the rooms least likely to have other heating sources via baseboard or otherwise. They are also more likely to have tile flooring.

In comment 12164985 robbieballs2003 said:

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In comment 12164978 oghwga said: Quote: them stripped, sanded, and refinished before you move in. If they are laminate pull them out and replace them with anything else but. So it will be easier to either whitewash them or bleach them than put tile down?

once you do that, there's no going back. congrats though! whitewashed wood all walls/ceilings does look nice. it may make your floor appear dirtier all the time though. just FYI

floor, I highly recommend it. We just had it done in our with our master bathroom renovation. It is great. Especially this winter.

.........

If you are ripping up floors radiant heat is awesome but don't start ripping floors just for the sake of adding radiant heat. In Kitchens and bathrooms it is great. Also I encourage you to try to accommodate your wife as much as possible, it is more important to keep a happy marriage.

in the bathroom are AWESOME.

but bring your visa card.

I'm not sure if the expense is worth it.

it's going to be a few thousand dollars or more depending on your heat source and there there is the expense of running it so IMO it's unlikely you recoup those costs in value.

If you need to redo the floors I'd use a laminate like pergo. especially with a baby coming. pergo makes some that look like hardwood, some that look like tile, so you can pick. and while cheap(er), it's not something tacky that became outdated like wood panelling from the 70's/80's. pergo floors installed well still looks good IMO.

And with the baby they're easier to clean, harder to damage (than real hardwoods) and look good.