anti Semitism in NYTimes story. I watch Morning Joe for years, I've never seen Joe Scarborough this angry and he's 100 percent correct. Is this Germany 1933 and Jes have to wear yellow stars? The Chancellor should suspend the students or resign. The rise of anti semittism on college campuses as an out growth of the pro Palestian anti Israeli sentiment on campuses. Scary that it is happening in America in 2015
"You're an asshole"
Have a nice day.
and your post reflects your own insecurities and issues, not anything I have ever posted directly or indirectly.
Holy shit, would you relax my post was not directed at you, ity was directed at those blaming the liberals in this thread for everything, the ones whose posts made you ask those questions.
This is the fucking second time i have told you its not directed at your questions
Quote:
In comment 12166307 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
How or why do they perceive the student's affiliation with Jewish groups would make her biased for the UCLA Student Council.
What are they voting on? Whether to give university land to Palestinians?
What exactly are these sensitive governance questions that led them to question whether a Jewish person could maintain an unbiased view, but every other religion or ethnicity is totally fine.
I have the same exact questions. That article is horribly written in that it does very little towards what was said on the video that youtube removed.
Were they saying that in matters relating to discipline she would be soft on Jews? I mean i just don't get why her faith has anything to do with what the group is tasked to do.
I just did a fast Google search and it looks like the student counsel voted 8-2 in support of divesting from the school's endowment re companies that do business with Israel. I dont know a lot about this story, but I read the minutes, read a bit about the divestment debate, and I wouldnt be surprised if this was really just a proxy vote on the Israel stuff. Idiot kids who dont know any better got worried that another Jew would be more support for Israel, so they put her thru the ringer.
In any event, these kids should be kicked off this judicial panel. I dont think you need to be suspended or kicked out of school over this stuff, but I dont know how you could be allowed to wield the power of school administration (which is state power b/c it is UC) once you start voting against people because they're Jews. Link - ( New Window )
Thanks Deej, that makes much more sense. That article was horrible at laying out the background story of this.
my apologies.
I retract my "You're an asshole" comment.
Quote:
Montana hopefully you do not need any translation of this post:
"You're an asshole"
Have a nice day.
and your post reflects your own insecurities and issues, not anything I have ever posted directly or indirectly.
Holy shit, would you relax my post was not directed at you, ity was directed at those blaming the liberals in this thread for everything, the ones whose posts made you ask those questions.
This is the fucking second time i have told you its not directed at your questions
No, he had you pegged pretty accurately.
Quote:
In comment 12166687 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
Montana hopefully you do not need any translation of this post:
"You're an asshole"
Have a nice day.
and your post reflects your own insecurities and issues, not anything I have ever posted directly or indirectly.
Holy shit, would you relax my post was not directed at you, ity was directed at those blaming the liberals in this thread for everything, the ones whose posts made you ask those questions.
This is the fucking second time i have told you its not directed at your questions
No, he had you pegged pretty accurately.
Actually my translation nailed you pretty good
Agreed. Liberal isn't synonymous with far left (ex-Weather Underground) just as conservative isn't synonymous with the John Birch Society.
I guess it depends what Anti Israel means to you? Can they do no wrong?
I think that you could view some of the events at the UN over the past several years, some of the events in Washington this week, some of what's happening in Switzerland this month in that vein and I think the context of antisemitism on US campuses and in Europe are not unrelated.
my apologies.
I retract my "You're an asshole" comment.
No problem the way it read come off that way and my explanation was confusing also.
What Josh and I have been debating for some time is how close the nexus is between the anti-Zionism he treats in his book and the anti-Semitism inherent in the behavior at UCLA.
Link - ( New Window )
Actually my translation nailed you pretty good
Nothing like putting words into people's mouths, you disingenuous cunt.
Quote:
Actually my translation nailed you pretty good
Nothing like putting words into people's mouths, you disingenuous cunt.
Aww, I guess "lefties being lefties" put words in your mouth huh little Twat
Hey Sally, you need to pull your panties out of your ass and understand how fucking ignorant your comment was with regards to this issue. Its your constant refrain, and its fucking stupid.
When you make a post that says "Lefties doing what Lefties always do." It is a stupid ass post the generalizes a whole group. It is throw away line that blames everything on one group, much like blaming Obama for everything.
You decided to get nasty in here Greg, not me. I just responded to your direct shot
It seems to me that most Jewish people are liberal, aren't they?
Not to generalize and create stereotypes, but just my understanding (which could be entirely wrong).
It's not a liberal thing to anti-Israel and I don't think Jews are anti-Israel. It's a far left thing to be anti-Liberal, although it has drifted a bit further to center left. Or the dems have shifted further left. Who knows.
I think this competes with it:
""It's a far left thing to be anti-Liberal""
I was responding to pj post. Maybe you should read it.
Quote:
might be the dumbest string of words I have ever read in my lifetime
I think this competes with it:
""It's a far left thing to be anti-Liberal""
I think that she meant anti-Israel instead of anti-Liberal.
That's completely true. Both are statist ideologies.
As someone who spent a few summers in the deep south as a child 50+ years ago, I can say with some confidence that my peers in the location I stayed, largely evangelical Christians, would have rubbed my head to check for horns if given the opportunity. It is many of these same evangelicals who now now profess great support for Jews ruling Israel.
Pardon me if I have my doubts as to whether this support is humanistic or self-interested, as a step on the road to Rapture. The latter permits one to maintain a distasteful attitude toward individuals of the Jewish faith, while professing support for JEWS, as the rulers of Israel.
Link - ( New Window )
I'm no theologist but I think that your analogy is imperfect. Papal supremacy is inherent to Catholicism (I'm not Catholic but that's my understanding). Assuming that to be a Catholic, you must adhere to Catholicism, you cannot be a Catholic without accepting the idea of a Pope.
However, I would assume that being a Jew would be more reflective of religion or culture (I'm not a Jew but that's my understanding) whereas Israel is a geographical and political entity (I'm not Israeli but that's m understanding). You can be Jewish and live anywhere and your political views can be influenced by others, especially int he culture where you live. I could easily envision someone being Jewish and having an unfavorable view of the Israeli political structure or actions taken by Israel.
In the original post, someone tried to make the near mathematical argument of if liberals are anti-Israel and Jews are liberal then Jews must be anti-Israel. Obviously you can argue against or disprove that statement, but in context her response is not as outlandish as you seem to have perceived it to be.
I wonder how many people of one group, interacting with people of a different group could say pretty much the same thing? It's likely attitudes and prejudices in general as opposed to something inherently antisemitic.
Quote:
It doesn't matter, it is still the all time champ. I'll go to my grave remembering I read somewhere that Jews were not anti Israel. In further news Catholics aren't against the idea of a Pope
I'm no theologist but I think that your analogy is imperfect. Papal supremacy is inherent to Catholicism (I'm not Catholic but that's my understanding). Assuming that to be a Catholic, you must adhere to Catholicism, you cannot be a Catholic without accepting the idea of a Pope.
However, I would assume that being a Jew would be more reflective of religion or culture (I'm not a Jew but that's my understanding) whereas Israel is a geographical and political entity (I'm not Israeli but that's m understanding). You can be Jewish and live anywhere and your political views can be influenced by others, especially int he culture where you live. I could easily envision someone being Jewish and having an unfavorable view of the Israeli political structure or actions taken by Israel.
In the original post, someone tried to make the near mathematical argument of if liberals are anti-Israel and Jews are liberal then Jews must be anti-Israel. Obviously you can argue against or disprove that statement, but in context her response is not as outlandish as you seem to have perceived it to be.
Thanks Bill. I was going to respond, but then I said, it's HH, why bother?
I don't doubt it and not just because I don't know the totality of what you read. However, I can say that if you just look a string of words and never consider the totality of the sentence and the context of the sentence, then there is a strong probability for misinterpretation or to come to the conclusion that you reached.
Quote:
Even more significant for this study, over one-third of those Americans who support Israel report that they do so because they believe the Bible teaches that the Jews must possess their own country in the Holy Land before Jesus can return.
As someone who spent a few summers in the deep south as a child 50+ years ago, I can say with some confidence that my peers in the location I stayed, largely evangelical Christians, would have rubbed my head to check for horns if given the opportunity. It is many of these same evangelicals who now now profess great support for Jews ruling Israel.
Pardon me if I have my doubts as to whether this support is humanistic or self-interested, as a step on the road to Rapture. The latter permits one to maintain a distasteful attitude toward individuals of the Jewish faith, while professing support for JEWS, as the rulers of Israel.
Link - ( New Window )
Manh - 1/3 is a significant minority, but that also means that a 2/3rds majority supports Israel for other reasons.
BTW- An interesting quote from you link seems to be relevant to the discussion taking place here:
"Then, a prevalent paradigm of leftist orthodoxy, in which class struggle was supplanted by noble struggles of people of color, created a lexicon of rationales for taking sides against Israel."
And it was a blatant act of anti-Semitism for sure. Opposing some of Israel's policies does not mean you carry personal grudges against Jews the way those four students did
First, to say Liberals are "anti-Israel" reveals analysis rendered with a blunt instrument.
It is one thing to be against Israel's policies or Israel's government and another to be "Anti-Israel." Most liberals are not against the existence of Israel, which is how I would interpret "anti-Israel."
Being against Israel's policies or government (or their putz of a Prime Minister) does not make one anti-Israel any more than being against the policies of the United States or (their putz of a President) makes one "Anti-American."
American Jews have a complex relationship with Israel. I'm an American liberal ... indeed an American Progressive ... and I am staunchly pro-Israel in so far as concerns Israel's right to exist. On the other hand, I fucking hate Netanyahu; I hate the settlements in the West Bank.
I really hate what I saw Israel becoming...a quasi-fascist, bigoted state in its last go-round of "Mowing the Lawn," the atrocious terminology used to refer to pummeling the shit out of Hamas and those who harbor Hamas, not because Hamas doesn't warrant having its shit pummeled out of it, but the racist and bigoted language in which the pummeling was rationalized made me wonder how much was in retaliation for rocket fire on civilian areas and kidnapping of civilians or because the majority of Israelis have come to believe that Palestinians are not human beings, inherently worthy of respect. The hateful language overshadows the legitimate interest in self-defense.
That said, I had to fight off both other Jews and Israelis who called "anti-Israel" and a "self-hating Jew," who feel that anything less than unconditional support for Israel amounts to consenting to Auschwitz for all Jews.
Fortunately, most of my extended family -- my cousins, mother, aunts and uncles, come out in about the same place that I do. Coming from the traditions of Reform Judaism and Zionism -- (My grandparents sent arms to Israel in the 1960s and '70s, in violation of the US Neutrality Act) -- my heartfelt belief is that bigotry against anyone, including Palestinians and Arabs in general, is bigotry against me. "It could happen to us."
So when the extreme right-wing Israeli government, that absolutely thrived under Bush-Cheney and had a hugely strong foundation (much more credible) for fear-mongering that easily translates into Islamophobia and bigoted, dehumanizing ideas about the Palestinian people, applies the same policies that I found utterly repellent under the Bush administration -- I see Netanyahu exalting "Security Uber Alles." And it chills me to the bone. It outrages me. It violates everything I was raised, as a Jew, to find reprehensible and contemptible.
On the other hand, when Lefties and Progressives prevail upon me to be ANTI-ISRAEL, as opposed to anti-Israeli government and anti-policy, I hear in them the echoes of the Stalinist purges of Jewish communists and the Black List in Hollywood. The extreme left has a storied history of antisemitism.
Jewish identity is a multi-dimensional mix of Religion, Ethnicity, Language (Hebrew and Yiddish), and Nationality. As a nation, we are much like the Kurds. We are the descendents of the Ancient Hebrews. We are also a religion that is not monolithic, and we have no pope. So ascribing uniformity to Jewish belief is an exercise in ignorance. Many atheists, my father and grandparents included, identify as Jewish. So do a lot of Buddhists and a fair number of Unitarians.
It's erroneous from the get-go to assume that all Liberals or all Progressives are anti-Israel.
As for Jewish support for Israel? It's complex. I do know that without the State of Israel, the world becomes a much more dangerous place for Jews.
+1000