Maybe they're just waiting for their guy to be released or something. I'm a bit perplexed there hasn't been a serious signing at all yet, to be honest. I just keep telling myself its early.
OG are getting double what we have Schwartz last year. The failure to sign I attribute more to not willing to pay these prices more than lack of pursuit
Our usual MO is to fill these holes in Free Agency so that we can focus on BPA. I really hope their not thinking Newhouse is a starter. Not sure what OG's are out there but without a solid starter picked up in FA, I don't see how we get away from using a 1st or 2nd at the latest on an OL to start.
if we reach for DE in the first round of this draft. I don't think any of them are worth it. So for me, i'm hoping Cooper falls to us or if need be we go with the best OL for us which I think is Schreff. I just really do not want to go DE again.
I don't get the idea that we should move Pugh inside because he isn't a mauler.
LT - Beatty
LG - ?
C - Richburg
RG - Schwartz
RT - Pugh
so really we are only in need of a starting LG. We can possibly bring back Jerry to compete or draft a guard in the 2nd or 3rd round and we should be fine.
I don't think the giants will draft a lineman at #9 because I really think they would be reaching and Reese has never been one put too much value in using a top pick for a lineman. He likes to get skill positions and figure out the line. Can't say I disagree since we have 2 superbowls with offensive lines that are riddled with top picks.
Who else was worth going for, or spending the money on? Not to mention, I seem to remember a beat writer mentioning Reese wanting to add some big bodies in the draft.
$18-20M for 4 years. Started ton of games for the Seahawks at G. And only 25. Would you have rather signed him (for a little more) or D. Harris? Not knocking the Harris signing, as we needed a Special teams speedster and a returner to take OBJ off the return team. But a Guard we could have plugged in for the same price? Could have given us Beatty-Schwartz-Richburg-Carpenter-Pugh on the starting OL.
surprised we have not yet signed a safety. Not sure I agree with you about the no. 9 pick although, with top 10, I do believe you have to go with BPA. That said, I can easily see us taking one of several positions...WR, OL, DE or DT.
I am surprised we made no effort or little effort to re-sign Thurmond.
Frankly, I am even more surprised that Eli has not been extended to free up cap money not just JPP. But it is still early
$18-20M for 4 years. Started ton of games for the Seahawks at G. And only 25. Would you have rather signed him (for a little more) or D. Harris? Not knocking the Harris signing, as we needed a Special teams speedster and a returner to take OBJ off the return team. But a Guard we could have plugged in for the same price? Could have given us Beatty-Schwartz-Richburg-Carpenter-Pugh on the starting OL.
I agree completely. That's why I think we go OL quickly.
an OG, DL and S before FA is over. I think most the top talent was out of their price range.
Granted we still have a long way to go in FA, but if you asked me last week, my gut was saying we'd grabbed a starting LG/RT in FA and look for a top pass rusher (WR if they slip) in the draft.
Now I think it's a toss-up between pass rusher/OL in rd 1 and probably grabbing the opposite in rd 2. Then looking S/WR in rds 3-4 and the usual late rd LB.
from the inside out focusing on line and QB play first and crafting the squad around those two pieces. So yes, I'm a bit surprised they didn't pick up linemen but also understand that this is a process and the experts are at the table. Plus I'm not sold on the immediate FAs who were available.
The last thing I want to see is the Giants drafting from a position of need. Bpa is the way to go and I hope they don't take a lineman at 9 simply to take a lineman.
Yep, if we go through this year and the OL is again a problem and we do not have enough quality depth to keep it going I don't know if i can keep watching the Giants next year.
While our OL was floundering, we had a decent defense now our defense is pretty depleted and you would think that our OL would be a strength ... but it still is not.
They brought in a veteran backup swing tackle who knows the system and if they re-sign John Jerry, between Newhouse, Jerry, and Jones, their depth will be in place. The starters will be Beatty, Pugh, Richburg, Schwartz and whoever they draft in round one or two. John Mara said as much way back in January or February when he, Reese, and Coughlin were giving interviews.
they go WR, have all these weapons but don't improve the OL. That is a recipe for a season of highlight reel losses. OH, what a play by OBJ, or Cooper or whoever, but they can't get 1st downs when they need them and lose.
but I don't think we are in that bad a shape as people would be led to believe. A healthy Schwartz is an upgrade over Richburg at left guard. A 2nd year Richburg will be better than Walton. A potential hole at right guard.
Jerry? He would not be awful if he is the 5th best starter on the line. Last year, he might have been 3rd best.
Canadian? Judging by his contract, he looks to be a backup only but hopefully is better than Reynolds as I agree with Eric - he's not an NFL player.
Another journeyman at guard? Again, as a 5th starter you can get by.
Newhouse - I think he is a backup only.
So we have 6 NFL players and I'm sure they'll add a journeyman guard (Jerry or other) in the next week or two.
We do need to get 2 in the draft but the way that we are signing for depth, I see that happening. My guess is at least 1 in the 1st 3 rounds who should be able to compete for the job this year and probably be counted on to start the next.
RE: They're apparently leaning heavily on Schwartz being healthy Â
1. let Thurmond go to the Eagles. Yes, he has an injury history, but when healthy, he is top-shelf and he brings the nasty;
2. let Rolle walk for a contract we seemingly could have easily afforded;
3) haven't signed a quality OL;
4) haven't signed a safety given the enormous hole now left by Rolle's departure. The situation at safety is now critical...
$18-20M for 4 years. Started ton of games for the Seahawks at G. And only 25. Would you have rather signed him (for a little more) or D. Harris? Not knocking the Harris signing, as we needed a Special teams speedster and a returner to take OBJ off the return team. But a Guard we could have plugged in for the same price? Could have given us Beatty-Schwartz-Richburg-Carpenter-Pugh on the starting OL.
Yeah, I agree as well, that would have been a good one.
considering the Giants can't run the ball and have a head coach who insists on running it 50% of the time no matter what and a head coach who plays rookies as a last resort. Yes. Considering that the Giants have an OL coach was given a #1 and #2 draft pick and an expensive FA and all of them shit the bed last year. Yes.
Considering that the Giants are built around a 34 year old QB who is not a runner. Yes. If this is the OL going into 2015 it will be 6 out of 7 with no playoffs.
RE: I'm really surprised, and I think you're right about OL at 9. Â
At a minimum I'd wager that we're going OL in either round 1 or 2.
Yes a bit surprised/dissapointed bother on no OL as well as S. Safety may be bothering me even more but it's still early. The fact that Moore and Parker are still lingering out there give me some hope. I would rather whoever we bring in be on the younger side and have great range. I want to see DRC/Prince play a bunch of m2m this year.
at 9 but being considered for multiple picks in the first 4 rounds. That would be a risky gamble but with the Guard/Center position seeming like it has a few nice candidates 2-4 the Gmen could be looking at grabbing a couple of guys on the Oline in those rounds.
BUT, there are still Vets out there and I am sure more will become available as teams need money for other signings and roster bonuses come into play. Not all roster bonuses are set at the same time so some guys may be let go in the next few weeks...
I think the Giants think that they're fine at both tackle spots. (I think we know now that Pugh is staying at RT).
They must feel like the need only a LG (which they can get a starting caliber LG in round 2 or 3 in the draft, eg: Laken Tomlinson, Kouijando from Alabama, Ali Marpet, AJ Cann). And they can get more depth in round 4 or 5.
The Newhouse signing reminds of the Charles Brown signing although, I do think he's better.
After reading the scouting report on Newhouse, he reminds me of the Saints o-lineman that we signed last year, Brown.
When I look at the O-line roster/depth chart, it scares me. They have no depth; none. They have two tackles who we know can play. Behind them, there is no depth at tackle. They have one guard that we know can play (if he can stay healthy). Jerry and Snyder are FA's and Mosely is still a question mark if he can play at this level. The center ... we assume he can play center at this level. But none of us really know for sure. The Canadian ... it might take him a season to adjust to NFL-caliber interior defensive linemen and linebackers (if he even makes the team). The offensive line roster is littered with players that we have no idea if they can play at this level.
I think Reese is doing a shitty job with the o-line - again.
SLIM, the hole is at LG, not RG. Schwartz is a right side player. Â
playing hurt last year but he was awful. Schwartz in the few snaps he got was way better and he's a failed tackle. Maybe if Schwartz can play RG it will help both of them. Schwartz playing LG was a disaster and probably why he got hurt.
Not the only choice of course. The front office can't ignore what Zack Martin did for the Dallas O-line last year. He can plug in at LG and immediately solve the biggest hole we have.
that allowed the Giants to really go BPA with pick #9. Not any more. If they can't land a veteran, they'll do what they did when they drafted Pugh and Wilson:
Claim that one of the young Oline guys was in their top tier and we got lucky they were still there at pick 9.
Sucks, but it's reality. This should have been avoided, IMO.
probably not likely....but I wouldn't rule out a trade at some point Â
which is a result of poor or neglected drafting to the unit over the past few years.
Problem was depth guys either re-signed with their teams or got starter money in FA.
imo, Reese had to bite the bullet and admit he fucked up, overpay to fix the OL this time and free up the draft to take BPA. Maybe he still has time to do that, not sure what's left out there for OL but I'm wondering if we have a pro scouting issue as Jerry, Brown and Newhouse are fucking terrible acquisitions and for whatever reason we felt they were good pickups.
as of today, if he, schwartz, goes down, you basically have zero guards.
a healthy, young-ish line would be
Beatty/The Canuk/Richburg/Mosely/Pugh
without the big free agent, you may need the hypothetical rookie to start right away somewhere on the line, which leaves you less flexible come draft day
Herman....Hard to believe Herman and Mosely are still on this team.....where that 5th starter comes from is anyone's guess....but we have nothing for backups....
RE: I think it's better than 50% that Giants go OL in round one Â
La'el Collins or Brandon Scherff make the most sense and either can be plugged right in at left guard or right tackle.
I just can't see them passing up on Cooper or White if they're there at #9. A WR corps of Beckham, Cruz, Randle, Cooper is downright scary for defenses. Might give them the best WR corps in the league.
Why would they have to 'claim' Scherff is a Top 10 prospect Â
Someone they can say with a straight face "he will compete for a starting spot". Most likely, he will be a guard because it does not appear that they want to spend the money for a tackle.
If they don't sign one more O-Lineman, expect John Jerry will be back. He may be back anyway.
with 2 of their first 4 picks. Wouldn't say it's definitely not an OL in round 1 or definitely is a OL in round 1. I don't think thats how they work.
And I do think we have one more FA OL signing coming....Charlie Johnson/Justin Blalock/Joe Barksdale type. A guy that could start, but would preferably be a quality backup with versatility.
as of today, if he, schwartz, goes down, you basically have zero guards.
a healthy, young-ish line would be
Beatty/The Canuk/Richburg/Mosely/Pugh
without the big free agent, you may need the hypothetical rookie to start right away somewhere on the line, which leaves you less flexible come draft day
Moseley? You can't be serious. And it's equally absurd to count on "the Canuck" as a starter at this point.
I'm not sure what they're doing at Safety. The contract Norris signed appears to be in the wheelhouse I thought they'd be comfortable with, but he's more of an in the box S and the money is probably better spent at FS.
They're probably trying to wait out a Parker to get his price down, or Stewart from the Ravens. Haven't heard Miles' name as yet. Hard to blame them from trying to find value on the backend, but I would've spent the money there before choosing the LBs they signed.
It would seem they're already into backup options, primary options aren't falling into place.
with 2 of their first 4 picks. Wouldn't say it's definitely not an OL in round 1 or definitely is a OL in round 1. I don't think thats how they work.
And I do think we have one more FA OL signing coming....Charlie Johnson/Justin Blalock/Joe Barksdale type. A guy that could start, but would preferably be a quality backup with versatility.
Hi
Do you think Laken Tomlinson will be there for their 2nd round pick?
And where do you think Marpet goes?
Also intrigued by the Florida St. guard, AJ Cann and Koudinajo from Bama. Thanks.
I just can't see them passing up on Cooper or White if they're there at #9.
I have no idea what kind of grade the Giants will apply to Cooper or White, but if a non-OL guy falls to them who is too good to refuse, I'd rather it was one of the pass-rushers.
And I do think we have one more FA OL signing coming....Charlie Johnson/Justin Blalock/Joe Barksdale type. A guy that could start, but would preferably be a quality backup with versatility.
The tough part is convincing one of them to sign for "quality backup" money. And after plunking down "quality backup money" for Newhouse, can they really afford to be paying two backups that kind of money?
that they very well may have talked to several OL free agents and found out immediately that their asking prices were more than the Giants were willing to pay, so there never was any negotiating..
Improvement should come from the growth of Richburg and Pugh, as well as the incorporation of Schwartz.
The Giants were a pretty good offensive team last year, despite learning a new offense, the injury to Jennings, having a new center that wasn't all that good, and relying heavily on inexperienced players (Beckham, Williams, Donnell, Pugh, and Richburg). I'd expect the improvement that comes with cohesion and familiarity.
The defense needed to be completely rebuilt.
At this point, I'd look for an OG signing such as Blalock Â
as there's unlikely a starting RT out there they'll view as an upgrade from Pugh. Sign a Blalock, and they're looking setup for the draft in terms of OL.
Our "Starters" Are Dreadful And We Have Zero Depth Behind Them. One Of The Worst Running Games In The NFL. Get Used To Another Year Of Plays Being Blown Up In The Backfield.
A few years ago and we would have seen a couple of Â
I put him at LG because that is where the Giants put him. If he is a RG, he is still an improvement over last year. He factors into the picture somewhere and has proven to be a competent starter in the league.
... and in this scenario, I'd prefer an edge rusher as well Â
I agree with a lot of what you said regarding the organic growth of our young offensive talent. I have one important question. Who is playing LG at a level we can feel confident won't derail the offense?
IMO that person isn't currently on our team. Names like Blalock/Barksdale leave me cold. They are throwing good money after bad just as we did with Jerry. This O-line needs an infusion of nasty. It's far too 'finesse' of a group than I'm comfortable with.
$18-20M for 4 years. Started ton of games for the Seahawks at G. And only 25. Would you have rather signed him (for a little more) or D. Harris? Not knocking the Harris signing, as we needed a Special teams speedster and a returner to take OBJ off the return team. But a Guard we could have plugged in for the same price? Could have given us Beatty-Schwartz-Richburg-Carpenter-Pugh on the starting OL.
I agree completely. That's why I think we go OL quickly.
1. let Thurmond go to the Eagles. Yes, he has an injury history, but when healthy, he is top-shelf and he brings the nasty;
2. let Rolle walk for a contract we seemingly could have easily afforded;
3) haven't signed a quality OL;
4) haven't signed a safety given the enormous hole now left by Rolle's departure. The situation at safety is now critical...
I guess your standard reply to the same sort of sentiment is different when it's Eric?
It could, but I expect to hear they love Cooper before long. Remember Reese's own words. You're showing some consistent bias on the OL subject.
I'm not married to an OL with the first pick, but I think that people are reading way too much into that line from Reese about taking the playmaker every time. You also heard Coughlin talking about running the ball and stopping the run.
As I said earlier, if a non-OL prospect who is too good to pass up falls to the Giants, I'd rather it be a DL who gets to the QB, than a WR to serve as an insurance policy on Victor Cruz.
It isn't 'bias' to realize the Giants could pick Scherff with Cooper still available.
Personally I do have Cooper in my Top tier and one of the only two true blue chip prospects in this draft. That doesn't mean the Giants see it that way. Even if 'leaks' emerge that the team is 'high' on Cooper how can we trust such spin?
1. let Thurmond go to the Eagles. Yes, he has an injury history, but when healthy, he is top-shelf and he brings the nasty;
2. let Rolle walk for a contract we seemingly could have easily afforded;
3) haven't signed a quality OL;
4) haven't signed a safety given the enormous hole now left by Rolle's departure. The situation at safety is now critical...
OOOPS!!!....nevermind GiantNatty....I thought you were somebody else....
RE: ... and in this scenario, I'd prefer an edge rusher as well Â
but the crop that figure to be in play at #9 are more tweener and less DE, which is where NYG tends to put their cap dollars. Catch-22.
I could see the Giants falling in love with Randy Gregory. I know his weight is well less than ideal, but the Giants will love his length and closing speed, not to mention his relentless style of play. Or not.
but the crop that figure to be in play at #9 are more tweener and less DE, which is where NYG tends to put their cap dollars. Catch-22.
I could see the Giants falling in love with Randy Gregory. I know his weight is well less than ideal, but the Giants will love his length and closing speed, not to mention his relentless style of play. Or not.
We agree on Gregory/NYG, I've written a few times I could see them sprinting to the podium with his name on the card at #9. My opinion of him has slipped a bit in recent weeks, especially at 235 lbs, he looks more like a 3-4 OLB. But, I wonder if he'd be too tempting for them in the end.
playing hurt last year but he was awful. Schwartz in the few snaps he got was way better and he's a failed tackle. Maybe if Schwartz can play RG it will help both of them. Schwartz playing LG was a disaster and probably why he got hurt.
This is my feeling. They put Schwartz back on the right side as starting RG. They are clearly high on the Canadian, so let him compete for both C/LG with Richburg. So it wouldn't surprise me at all to see one of these two configs starting day one:
coupled to our needs relative to the systems that we run, and lastly incorporating Reese's draft philosophy, I think a very similar positional draft could happen in the first few rounds. WR round 1, followed by OL/DL rounds 2-3.
There will be a bunch of good looking plug and play OL at 40 Tomlinson, Cann, Jackson, Erving, Fisher, Donovon Smith (who fits G-men ideal prototype) and possibly a few still in round 3.
The wild-card here IMO is Preston Smith if he somehow lasts to 40. I think he also very closely fits the Gmen prototype at DE, has great combine numbers and an excellent last season. In round 3 , if any of those O-lineman are still there or maybe even Marpet could be in the mix. A couple DL that could come into play in round 3 would be Odi (not earlier due to the medical) and Henry Anderson.
Cooper/White/Parker + OL @ 40 in Reese's mind is likely much greater value than Scherff/Peat/Collins + WR @40 unless he feels one of the top guys projects as an elite LT (which could replace Beatty or sub in at the most critical OL spot due to injury).
The Giants have shown a willingness to start rookie OL players; Pugh and Richburg. I am hoping to get 2 OL players in rounds 1 through 3. 1 of those hopefully can be a starting left guard. I know that's a tall order, but not impossible.
I wonder if they'll consider Newhouse at the spot. He's been signed as the swing tackle, but I could them trying him at LG rather than sitting on his arse on the bench. I expect Richburg to beat out Jones, and realistically Jones might not be of NFL starter caliber.
where 1 of the top 2 WRs is staring them in the face and the team is almost forced to take an OL because of a glaring need. Jerry's comments after the season about "ODB vs. Zach Martin" make me feel somewhat better about this not happening, but not signing a starting caliber OL in FA makes it dicey.
Didn't we get Schwartz and DRC on the 5th day of FA last year? Â
Yeah I don't disagree and I'm completely speculating on their opinion of Jones.
However, I fully expect Schwartz and Pugh to be healthier and better this year. I think Schwartz moves to RG and helps Pugh be even better. I also liked what I saw from Richburg, and I'd have to think year two (if he stays healthy) will be an even better year for him... and you have to think they have absolutely have him penciled in as the starting center. Which means they need a LG. I'm actually not really that unhappy with that scenario.
Aside from Hermann still on the roster... There are a couple of JAGs that no one has mentioned... isn't the gigantic guy (Bamiro I think) still on the roster as an OT? Also Kropog, Gettis, and Cleary?
are bargain hunting and if they do grab a reliable Guard, it would merely be for 1 year IMO. I think they will pursue a olineman in the draft and that guy will be given an opportunity to compete this year for a starting gig with the idea of getting that guy on the field, as a starter, the following year. our current cap situation is not good enough to garner a top FA lineman. This remaining resources will probably go to snagging one of the safeties.
Afraid that the Giants are going to go with a figure in the dike approach to fixing the OL and put whole offense at risk of disaster with one injury to the OL. They are not upgrading, just plugging holes.
Unless going into FA,the Front office clearly ranked OL very high in the draft for rd 1,2 and are committed to building a young line.
What I have observed lately, is these FA OL have all broken down. Baas broke down, Schwartz broke down, so I had a sense they would want to go young on OL and solidify 3/5 young OL for the rest of Eli's tenure with Pugh, Richburgh + new guy.
But what I was clinging to, in order for that to come true was a solid DT signing to stop the run. That hasn't happened. That's my bigger concern
I think it was that specific players were really bad (John Jerry and JD Walton) and it adversely affected the entire protection scheme.
Having Schwartz for more than one game, along with Richburg and Pugh each having an additional year of NFL experience under their belts will go a very long way towards this line improving substantially.
If they decide to snatch someone of worth with one of their top draft picks to fill LG, I would feel pretty comfortable with this line going into the season.
There are only a few true blue chippers in this draft. It could very well be they expect OL draftees to actually be best available. If there should be surprise, there are plenty of quality OG in round 2 & 3.
If we brought in an a expense FA, who you going to sit?
RE: Pugh had a sophomore slump year and played hurt Â
I think there has to be another signing at OG. They just don't have 5 starters and they've never left themselves this open at a staring spot. There is just no one who you could even imagine as a starter. Even if they resign Jerry it's not really enough given their bad history of injury. They need a Jerry as a backup.
the free agent tracker on ESPN has a shit load of 'C' rated OL still available and the guys signed already, that got a lot of money on day 1-2 were mostly of the 'C' variety as well---Franklin included...
In short, there are a lot of stop gap decent vets out there that will see less and less money with every passing day. The Giants are bargain hunting but based on the grades handed out to guys signed vs guys still available, won't really see much of a difference in performance. At least on paper...
IF we could just sign a decent stop gap OL we can then add a player in the draft and with a little health in the right places see a dramatic upgrade along the OL in 2015.
LT - Beatty is Beatty along with recent FA pickup
LG - New LG hopefully one coming here soon
Center - Richburg and Canada upgrades over Walton
RG - Schwartz, Jerry and rookie
RT - Pugh
That's 3 spots that could be better than last year with just one savy addition over the next week or so and a decent draft pick...it's not doom and gloom
for two reasons. First, what if the guy you want is gone? It isn't a endless list of guys they think can come in and start as rookies. Second, what if someone drops who you have rated higher. You pass up BPA for a need pick? JR won't do that.
Not surprised in the least Look at Reese's quotes Â
he's proven consistently he doesn't value OL as much as he does 'playmakers'.
Because he's an imbecile.
They needed at least 2-3 OL this year. One to start right away, one that can be ready to step in case Beatty drops off the cliff. And one in case Schwartz/Pugh struggle going forward.
1. let Thurmond go to the Eagles. Yes, he has an injury history, but when healthy, he is top-shelf and he brings the nasty;
2. let Rolle walk for a contract we seemingly could have easily afforded;
3) haven't signed a quality OL;
4) haven't signed a safety given the enormous hole now left by Rolle's departure. The situation at safety is now critical...
Yeah, safety is a huge hole, but so is LB and DL to some degree. I still don't like letting Linval go nor I like letting Rolle Go. Rolle even more so, he was the glue back there it was clear.
and special teamers... we get get 3 of them for the price of one actual good NFL player on the OL or DL...
so no im not surprised... more disgusted.
we need S, DL, OL to start FA.... we have done nothing for either... and if we draft a WR I will be less then pleased
RE: Not surprised in the least Look at Reese's quotes Â
he's proven consistently he doesn't value OL as much as he does 'playmakers'.
Because he's an imbecile.
They needed at least 2-3 OL this year. One to start right away, one that can be ready to step in case Beatty drops off the cliff. And one in case Schwartz/Pugh struggle going forward.
Nobody in the league values offensive line more than playmakers.
But then again I'm not. It is the Giants.. You would think that would be their number one focus this off season based on how bad the Oline looked last season?? It's all very strange.. It will all fall on Reese if this goes bad again that's for sure..
RE: Not surprised in the least Look at Reese's quotes Â
he's proven consistently he doesn't value OL as much as he does 'playmakers'.
Because he's an imbecile.
They needed at least 2-3 OL this year. One to start right away, one that can be ready to step in case Beatty drops off the cliff. And one in case Schwartz/Pugh struggle going forward.
Would you just stop it already? Now Reese is an "imbecile"......So what you are saying is:
-We need another LT who can start in case "Beatty drops off a cliff"
-Another RT, in case Pugh "struggles"
-And, by the way, let's get another G in case Schwartz (who was a big FA signing last year) "struggles"
We should probably looking into getting another QB in case Eli gets kidnapped, and maybe another stud WR in case Beckham comes down with malaria.
he's proven consistently he doesn't value OL as much as he does 'playmakers'.
Because he's an imbecile.
They needed at least 2-3 OL this year. One to start right away, one that can be ready to step in case Beatty drops off the cliff. And one in case Schwartz/Pugh struggle going forward.
IF Reese didn't value OL like you say, the Giants wouldn't pay the OL half the money they ACTUALLY have paid out over the years, including this coming season. And I am sure they will sign a vet OL to decent money these next few weeks.
They draft OL in round 1 and 2 the last TWO years---they pay the guard last offseason one of the biggest contracts given to OL at the time and they gave Beatty a small fortune after giving guys like Snee, Diehl and Mckenzie small fortunes.
Stop. Making. Shit. Up. The Giants devout huge financial and draft resources to the OL and will continue to do so.
imbecile yet, but I would not jump down someone's throat who has. O line should be priority number one and if that is a sentiment not shared by the Giants' front office then he should be replaced.
With Eli you do not even need an elite o line. If the Giants get elite O line play with they might win the whole thing. Just get a functional o line filled with legit starters at the NFL level and the team will be competitive.
There is a LT they are targeting at pick 40. If they got Fowler or a wideout at 9, and then grabbed Fischer, Humphries, Clemmings or Flowers at 40, i would love that.
Kevin White or Fowler or Beasley at 9 and any of those guys at 40 would make me very happy.
we haven't signed a starting caliber OL yet. However, I am more surprised we haven't done much on the other side of the ball. Do you guys remember how badly the defense was last year? You can't expect Spags scheme to magically fix that.
Has me concerned at the moment. There is little depth at DL, the OL it seems is being banked on that everyone already on the team takes another step forward next season, and there is virtually nothing at S.
I'm not going to hurl myself off a bridge or write 45 posts complaining about Reese though. But it is concerning at the moment. But it is March 12 too.
Pins removed! Oh yeaaaa! One step closer to full recovery. Feeling great. Can't wait to be back w/my @Giants teammates helping us win!
10:22 AM - 24 Feb 2015
Reese & co probably aren't impressed with the vet OL FAs out there Â
That means that we will likely be constrained by need going into the draft and will need to draft an OL in the first 2 rounds, maybe waiting until the third at the very latest.
Recent mocks indicate that there are going to be some very highly-rated interior OL prospects available in the early 2nd rd. I think the sum total of pro personnel and college talent evaluation is taking us right to that spot. Fortunately for the Giants, it's a good spot due to the ample red-chip G talent available.
It doesn't seem that we had any interest in Bulaga, Iupati, or the OG who signed with the Jets (his name is escaping me).
This is going to hamstring us in the 1st and 2nd round.
The OL isn't just the biggest problem with the offense - it's the biggest problem with the team (IMO). And we've done essentially nothing to address it.
One of our starters WILL go down, and we will be screwed - again - because of the lack of a decent O-line.
if they actually went out and signed a quality olineman. As of now, Jerry and that Canadian will battle it out, and they will hope Schwartz can actually play in 2 consecutive games.
but I'm not going to. Reese was supremely lucky to have Coughlin as his coach and Flaherty as his OL coach. He wasted lots of money in Free Agency trying to re-capture that original FA haul and has had so-so results to show for it.
Reese is a fool as a GM and unfortunately it's going to cost Coughlin his job from what I've seen.
Reese insisting on a "playmaker" over offensive line Â
if they actually went out and signed a quality olineman. As of now, Jerry and that Canadian will battle it out, and they will hope Schwartz can actually play in 2 consecutive games.
Do you know that I'm quietly hoping the Canadian has an "out of nowhere" starter season and plays at a superb level for us. If both he and Richburg can pull our run game will be much improved.
LT - Beatty
LG - ?
C - Richburg
RG - Schwartz
RT - Pugh
so really we are only in need of a starting LG. We can possibly bring back Jerry to compete or draft a guard in the 2nd or 3rd round and we should be fine.
I don't think the giants will draft a lineman at #9 because I really think they would be reaching and Reese has never been one put too much value in using a top pick for a lineman. He likes to get skill positions and figure out the line. Can't say I disagree since we have 2 superbowls with offensive lines that are riddled with top picks.
http://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2015/03/05/new-york-giants-2015-nfl-free-agency-preview/ - ( New Window )
I bet you can say that about a oline player on every team. Plus we have the Canadian dude.
I will be kinda surprised if they don't go OL at 9 though.
Scary shit. I hope ends up being a great guard or center... but scary shit right now.
Our OL is THE MAJOR problem on our offense.
No, because those options were expensive and it was only a few players to pick from.
I am surprised we made no effort or little effort to re-sign Thurmond.
Frankly, I am even more surprised that Eli has not been extended to free up cap money not just JPP. But it is still early
I expect them to draft OL between rounds 1-3 and then again in the later part of the draft as well..
I agree completely. That's why I think we go OL quickly.
Granted we still have a long way to go in FA, but if you asked me last week, my gut was saying we'd grabbed a starting LG/RT in FA and look for a top pass rusher (WR if they slip) in the draft.
Now I think it's a toss-up between pass rusher/OL in rd 1 and probably grabbing the opposite in rd 2. Then looking S/WR in rds 3-4 and the usual late rd LB.
The last thing I want to see is the Giants drafting from a position of need. Bpa is the way to go and I hope they don't take a lineman at 9 simply to take a lineman.
Yep, if we go through this year and the OL is again a problem and we do not have enough quality depth to keep it going I don't know if i can keep watching the Giants next year.
While our OL was floundering, we had a decent defense now our defense is pretty depleted and you would think that our OL would be a strength ... but it still is not.
but hey, we have OBJ :)
I believe Reese will address the OL. He has to see the same things we all do.
I'll wait until post-draft and see the roster they're bringing to training camp
Jerry? He would not be awful if he is the 5th best starter on the line. Last year, he might have been 3rd best.
Canadian? Judging by his contract, he looks to be a backup only but hopefully is better than Reynolds as I agree with Eric - he's not an NFL player.
Another journeyman at guard? Again, as a 5th starter you can get by.
Newhouse - I think he is a backup only.
So we have 6 NFL players and I'm sure they'll add a journeyman guard (Jerry or other) in the next week or two.
We do need to get 2 in the draft but the way that we are signing for depth, I see that happening. My guess is at least 1 in the 1st 3 rounds who should be able to compete for the job this year and probably be counted on to start the next.
Agreed
2. let Rolle walk for a contract we seemingly could have easily afforded;
3) haven't signed a quality OL;
4) haven't signed a safety given the enormous hole now left by Rolle's departure. The situation at safety is now critical...
Yeah, I agree as well, that would have been a good one.
Considering that the Giants are built around a 34 year old QB who is not a runner. Yes. If this is the OL going into 2015 it will be 6 out of 7 with no playoffs.
Yes a bit surprised/dissapointed bother on no OL as well as S. Safety may be bothering me even more but it's still early. The fact that Moore and Parker are still lingering out there give me some hope. I would rather whoever we bring in be on the younger side and have great range. I want to see DRC/Prince play a bunch of m2m this year.
BUT, there are still Vets out there and I am sure more will become available as teams need money for other signings and roster bonuses come into play. Not all roster bonuses are set at the same time so some guys may be let go in the next few weeks...
I think the Giants think that they're fine at both tackle spots. (I think we know now that Pugh is staying at RT).
They must feel like the need only a LG (which they can get a starting caliber LG in round 2 or 3 in the draft, eg: Laken Tomlinson, Kouijando from Alabama, Ali Marpet, AJ Cann). And they can get more depth in round 4 or 5.
The Newhouse signing reminds of the Charles Brown signing although, I do think he's better.
After reading the scouting report on Newhouse, he reminds me of the Saints o-lineman that we signed last year, Brown.
When I look at the O-line roster/depth chart, it scares me. They have no depth; none. They have two tackles who we know can play. Behind them, there is no depth at tackle. They have one guard that we know can play (if he can stay healthy). Jerry and Snyder are FA's and Mosely is still a question mark if he can play at this level. The center ... we assume he can play center at this level. But none of us really know for sure. The Canadian ... it might take him a season to adjust to NFL-caliber interior defensive linemen and linebackers (if he even makes the team). The offensive line roster is littered with players that we have no idea if they can play at this level.
I think Reese is doing a shitty job with the o-line - again.
No, because those options were expensive and it was only a few players to pick from.
JonC...agree 100 percent, but you can say the same thing about safety. And I never count on rookies to start.
Remember what Jerry Reese said about a month ago..."if it comes down to a play-maker or guard in the draft, I will always take the play-maker."
1) JD Walton
2) John Jerry
3) Justin Pugh was injured and not close to 100%.
Jerry will be a back up best...hey may not make the team.
They saw something in him to invest solid money. They must think he is part of the solution. Gotta give him a season with a training camp.
We get our doors blown off up front, Eli takes a beating, we talk big....and do nothing about it. As of right now we are still a shitty OL.
Claim that one of the young Oline guys was in their top tier and we got lucky they were still there at pick 9.
Sucks, but it's reality. This should have been avoided, IMO.
Problem was depth guys either re-signed with their teams or got starter money in FA.
imo, Reese had to bite the bullet and admit he fucked up, overpay to fix the OL this time and free up the draft to take BPA. Maybe he still has time to do that, not sure what's left out there for OL but I'm wondering if we have a pro scouting issue as Jerry, Brown and Newhouse are fucking terrible acquisitions and for whatever reason we felt they were good pickups.
a healthy, young-ish line would be
Beatty/The Canuk/Richburg/Mosely/Pugh
without the big free agent, you may need the hypothetical rookie to start right away somewhere on the line, which leaves you less flexible come draft day
I just can't see them passing up on Cooper or White if they're there at #9. A WR corps of Beckham, Cruz, Randle, Cooper is downright scary for defenses. Might give them the best WR corps in the league.
If they don't sign one more O-Lineman, expect John Jerry will be back. He may be back anyway.
And I do think we have one more FA OL signing coming....Charlie Johnson/Justin Blalock/Joe Barksdale type. A guy that could start, but would preferably be a quality backup with versatility.
a healthy, young-ish line would be
Beatty/The Canuk/Richburg/Mosely/Pugh
without the big free agent, you may need the hypothetical rookie to start right away somewhere on the line, which leaves you less flexible come draft day
Moseley? You can't be serious. And it's equally absurd to count on "the Canuck" as a starter at this point.
And the cream always rises to the top. We shall see.
They're probably trying to wait out a Parker to get his price down, or Stewart from the Ravens. Haven't heard Miles' name as yet. Hard to blame them from trying to find value on the backend, but I would've spent the money there before choosing the LBs they signed.
It would seem they're already into backup options, primary options aren't falling into place.
And I do think we have one more FA OL signing coming....Charlie Johnson/Justin Blalock/Joe Barksdale type. A guy that could start, but would preferably be a quality backup with versatility.
Hi
Do you think Laken Tomlinson will be there for their 2nd round pick?
And where do you think Marpet goes?
Also intrigued by the Florida St. guard, AJ Cann and Koudinajo from Bama. Thanks.
Concerned? Yes.
Newhouse is the swing tackle, now they'll look for a LG or RT, which could be a Scherff if Cooper's gone at #9, for example.
The Giants were a pretty good offensive team last year, despite learning a new offense, the injury to Jennings, having a new center that wasn't all that good, and relying heavily on inexperienced players (Beckham, Williams, Donnell, Pugh, and Richburg). I'd expect the improvement that comes with cohesion and familiarity.
The defense needed to be completely rebuilt.
IMO that person isn't currently on our team. Names like Blalock/Barksdale leave me cold. They are throwing good money after bad just as we did with Jerry. This O-line needs an infusion of nasty. It's far too 'finesse' of a group than I'm comfortable with.
I agree completely. That's why I think we go OL quickly.
SO TRUE!!
2. let Rolle walk for a contract we seemingly could have easily afforded;
3) haven't signed a quality OL;
4) haven't signed a safety given the enormous hole now left by Rolle's departure. The situation at safety is now critical...
I guess your standard reply to the same sort of sentiment is different when it's Eric?
As I said earlier, if a non-OL prospect who is too good to pass up falls to the Giants, I'd rather it be a DL who gets to the QB, than a WR to serve as an insurance policy on Victor Cruz.
Personally I do have Cooper in my Top tier and one of the only two true blue chip prospects in this draft. That doesn't mean the Giants see it that way. Even if 'leaks' emerge that the team is 'high' on Cooper how can we trust such spin?
2. let Rolle walk for a contract we seemingly could have easily afforded;
3) haven't signed a quality OL;
4) haven't signed a safety given the enormous hole now left by Rolle's departure. The situation at safety is now critical...
OOOPS!!!....nevermind GiantNatty....I thought you were somebody else....
Lets hope that we don't have the same sentiment this pre-season.
as of today I am not seeing it go well at all.
this board has typically over estimated the OL coaching as some sort of miracle event waiting to happen.
Torrag, I was referring more to Milton's consistent running comments on OL at #9, not so much Scherff vs Cooper. Lazy writing on my part.
you need the horses and they are very hard to get
Quote:
but the crop that figure to be in play at #9 are more tweener and less DE, which is where NYG tends to put their cap dollars. Catch-22.
I could see the Giants falling in love with Randy Gregory. I know his weight is well less than ideal, but the Giants will love his length and closing speed, not to mention his relentless style of play. Or not.
We agree on Gregory/NYG, I've written a few times I could see them sprinting to the podium with his name on the card at #9. My opinion of him has slipped a bit in recent weeks, especially at 235 lbs, he looks more like a 3-4 OLB. But, I wonder if he'd be too tempting for them in the end.
This is my feeling. They put Schwartz back on the right side as starting RG. They are clearly high on the Canadian, so let him compete for both C/LG with Richburg. So it wouldn't surprise me at all to see one of these two configs starting day one:
Beatty-Richburg-Jones-Schwartz-Pugh
-OR-
Beatty-Jones-Richburg-Schwartz-Pugh
There will be a bunch of good looking plug and play OL at 40 Tomlinson, Cann, Jackson, Erving, Fisher, Donovon Smith (who fits G-men ideal prototype) and possibly a few still in round 3.
The wild-card here IMO is Preston Smith if he somehow lasts to 40. I think he also very closely fits the Gmen prototype at DE, has great combine numbers and an excellent last season. In round 3 , if any of those O-lineman are still there or maybe even Marpet could be in the mix. A couple DL that could come into play in round 3 would be Odi (not earlier due to the medical) and Henry Anderson.
Cooper/White/Parker + OL @ 40 in Reese's mind is likely much greater value than Scherff/Peat/Collins + WR @40 unless he feels one of the top guys projects as an elite LT (which could replace Beatty or sub in at the most critical OL spot due to injury).
-OR-
Beatty-Jones-Richburg-Schwartz-Pugh
We have to do better.
This is looking like a trade down year - big time.
we need guards and defensive linesmen that can start and dominate, safeties, etc.
I believe they'll sign an LG, like Blalock.
we have had too many 'could slide over' situations.
and off to the races with the supposed 'talent' positions again...'nice taper' ...'sexy hips'...'beauty eyeliner'
OT in the middle part of the first represents by far the best convergence BPA and need for the Giants. Plus they pick up another pick.
Good point hopefully they can still get a quality S and Olineman
-OR-
Beatty-Jones-Richburg-Schwartz-Pugh
We have to do better.
Yeah I don't disagree and I'm completely speculating on their opinion of Jones.
However, I fully expect Schwartz and Pugh to be healthier and better this year. I think Schwartz moves to RG and helps Pugh be even better. I also liked what I saw from Richburg, and I'd have to think year two (if he stays healthy) will be an even better year for him... and you have to think they have absolutely have him penciled in as the starting center. Which means they need a LG. I'm actually not really that unhappy with that scenario.
Aside from Hermann still on the roster... There are a couple of JAGs that no one has mentioned... isn't the gigantic guy (Bamiro I think) still on the roster as an OT? Also Kropog, Gettis, and Cleary?
They spent so much time watching the sky last year that Beckham was named Offensive Rookie of the Year, and Eli had one of his best seasons.
People just make shit up.
People just make shit up.
It does get tiresome.
-Yes, the run game needs to improve.
-Like it not, injuries happen. A healthy Schwartz, Pugh, Richburg at C is an improvement.
-We are in a position at #9 OR #40 to grab a OL.
Maybe we should just carry 12 DOMINATE (hate when people use that word) OL, that never get hurt.
Schwartz was hurt.
I think there's plenty of room for the players we already have under contract to get better.
Just not playing John Jerry improves the line.
What I have observed lately, is these FA OL have all broken down. Baas broke down, Schwartz broke down, so I had a sense they would want to go young on OL and solidify 3/5 young OL for the rest of Eli's tenure with Pugh, Richburgh + new guy.
But what I was clinging to, in order for that to come true was a solid DT signing to stop the run. That hasn't happened. That's my bigger concern
Having Schwartz for more than one game, along with Richburg and Pugh each having an additional year of NFL experience under their belts will go a very long way towards this line improving substantially.
If they decide to snatch someone of worth with one of their top draft picks to fill LG, I would feel pretty comfortable with this line going into the season.
The Giants also still need a safety or two...
Our big signings so far are a 3rd down back and Canada's best offensive lineman. 3rd place goes to the kick returner.
Anyone with any insight into wtf the Giants are up to, let us know.
What if we singed Orlando Franklin to a huge deal, and he got hurt? People would complain then.
If we brought in an a expense FA, who you going to sit?
Schwartz was hurt.
I think there's plenty of room for the players we already have under contract to get better.
Just not playing John Jerry improves the line.
And Pugh had to play next to Jerry..
In short, there are a lot of stop gap decent vets out there that will see less and less money with every passing day. The Giants are bargain hunting but based on the grades handed out to guys signed vs guys still available, won't really see much of a difference in performance. At least on paper...
IF we could just sign a decent stop gap OL we can then add a player in the draft and with a little health in the right places see a dramatic upgrade along the OL in 2015.
LT - Beatty is Beatty along with recent FA pickup
LG - New LG hopefully one coming here soon
Center - Richburg and Canada upgrades over Walton
RG - Schwartz, Jerry and rookie
RT - Pugh
That's 3 spots that could be better than last year with just one savy addition over the next week or so and a decent draft pick...it's not doom and gloom
Because he's an imbecile.
They needed at least 2-3 OL this year. One to start right away, one that can be ready to step in case Beatty drops off the cliff. And one in case Schwartz/Pugh struggle going forward.
2. let Rolle walk for a contract we seemingly could have easily afforded;
3) haven't signed a quality OL;
4) haven't signed a safety given the enormous hole now left by Rolle's departure. The situation at safety is now critical...
Yeah, safety is a huge hole, but so is LB and DL to some degree. I still don't like letting Linval go nor I like letting Rolle Go. Rolle even more so, he was the glue back there it was clear.
so no im not surprised... more disgusted.
we need S, DL, OL to start FA.... we have done nothing for either... and if we draft a WR I will be less then pleased
Because he's an imbecile.
They needed at least 2-3 OL this year. One to start right away, one that can be ready to step in case Beatty drops off the cliff. And one in case Schwartz/Pugh struggle going forward.
Nobody in the league values offensive line more than playmakers.
Because he's an imbecile.
They needed at least 2-3 OL this year. One to start right away, one that can be ready to step in case Beatty drops off the cliff. And one in case Schwartz/Pugh struggle going forward.
Would you just stop it already? Now Reese is an "imbecile"......So what you are saying is:
-We need another LT who can start in case "Beatty drops off a cliff"
-Another RT, in case Pugh "struggles"
-And, by the way, let's get another G in case Schwartz (who was a big FA signing last year) "struggles"
We should probably looking into getting another QB in case Eli gets kidnapped, and maybe another stud WR in case Beckham comes down with malaria.
Do you type with your feet?
If you can not build a functioing o line that will allow Eli and the offense to excel then find a GM who can.
Because he's an imbecile.
They needed at least 2-3 OL this year. One to start right away, one that can be ready to step in case Beatty drops off the cliff. And one in case Schwartz/Pugh struggle going forward.
IF Reese didn't value OL like you say, the Giants wouldn't pay the OL half the money they ACTUALLY have paid out over the years, including this coming season. And I am sure they will sign a vet OL to decent money these next few weeks.
They draft OL in round 1 and 2 the last TWO years---they pay the guard last offseason one of the biggest contracts given to OL at the time and they gave Beatty a small fortune after giving guys like Snee, Diehl and Mckenzie small fortunes.
Stop. Making. Shit. Up. The Giants devout huge financial and draft resources to the OL and will continue to do so.
With Eli you do not even need an elite o line. If the Giants get elite O line play with they might win the whole thing. Just get a functional o line filled with legit starters at the NFL level and the team will be competitive.
Kevin White or Fowler or Beasley at 9 and any of those guys at 40 would make me very happy.
Doubt that. I read somewhere, iirc, we were 10 in pass pro. We need to plug in a quality LG somehow & we should be alright.
I'm not going to hurl myself off a bridge or write 45 posts complaining about Reese though. But it is concerning at the moment. But it is March 12 too.
Seems like he's going okay.
Pins removed! Oh yeaaaa! One step closer to full recovery. Feeling great. Can't wait to be back w/my @Giants teammates helping us win!
10:22 AM - 24 Feb 2015
Recent mocks indicate that there are going to be some very highly-rated interior OL prospects available in the early 2nd rd. I think the sum total of pro personnel and college talent evaluation is taking us right to that spot. Fortunately for the Giants, it's a good spot due to the ample red-chip G talent available.
This is going to hamstring us in the 1st and 2nd round.
The OL isn't just the biggest problem with the offense - it's the biggest problem with the team (IMO). And we've done essentially nothing to address it.
One of our starters WILL go down, and we will be screwed - again - because of the lack of a decent O-line.
I said prior to the draft (pie) something to the effect that, 'watch out' if we grab a WR in 1 you might be in for a long year.
Due to the positional value prospects that year and the wide number of needs to get to a balanced type team.
This year it will also be hard to find a balanced type team, for us: one with very strong line play on both sides.
This is a trend going back to the Jim Fassell days if not before. Treating the OL like an afterthought....and now the DL as well.
Reese is a fool as a GM and unfortunately it's going to cost Coughlin his job from what I've seen.