Alright, I'm in the mood to shake things up. I'm going to be honest, I think there is a good chance that the Giants aren't going to be that good this year whether it's b/c of the offensive line or the lack of talent on defense. Is it time to blow this up? I will get lambasted for this idea but it's something I've been thinking about for a while. I'm a bit enamored with Nassib. Every now and again we see guys begin to develop and then really show skills in pre-season that go beyond your run of the mill player. This was evident with Victor Cruz and I believe we saw the same thing with Nassib last year. Nassib showed command of the deep ball, accuracy and mobility. In fact, he reminded me of Drew Brees in his throwing motion. He showed marked improvement in the touch on his passes on the deep ball. I saw a guy that looks like a good NFL QB.
Now, I like Eli, but Eli is nearing the end and is a cap killer heading into a new contract. Eli will not give this team a discount nor should he. Is it time to move on? The immediate answer is, "f-you idiot, you're crazy and are a POS for not loving Eli unconditionally." Yes, I understand. However, what if you could trade Eli now for a top 10 1st round pick? Tennessee? Jets? Let's say you can draft one of the WRs + Shelton/OL/DE. Maybe you rebuild the OL in one draft w/ extra picks. You could start to rebuild this team for the next 10-15 year cycle. I think I would do it. Is it that crazy? Try to keep the f-bombs to a minimum.
I'm speechless and find false statements all over this post
Are you still trolling every thread you can find in order to jump on Winston, even when nobody is talking about him? This is becoming creepy.
The coaches see him every day. They see him in drills at practice. He probably gets plenty of reps with the scout team. And there is a reason why the coaches regard Nassib as a capable but career backup.
Seriously, if you were the GM and pulled that shit, the second we realized that Nassib was closer to the next Kent Graham than the next Joe Montana, I would leave daily flaming bags of dogshit on your front step.
Let me make this clear.
YOU
DO
NOT
GET
RID
OF
A
FRANCHISE
QUARTERBACK
UNLESS
YOU
HAVE
THE
NEXT
SURE
THING
WAITING
IN
THE
WINGS.
The last time we did that was late Spring 1994, when George Young cut Phil Simms to see what this kid Dave Brown had. How did that turn out? Phil Simms made the Pro Bowl in 1993, the first time in eight years. He recorded the highest completion percentage in his career. He had offseason surgery, but his prognosis was excellent.
In the 1994 season, we went 9-7 with Dave Fucking Brown. Imagine if we had Phil Simms instead? We lost to Arizona by one point. We lost by four to the Steelers when Brown fumbled the ball at the 1 (although he had both knees down). We lost in OT to the Lions. We lost by five to the Saints, where we had a last minute drive derailed by a Chris Calloway unsportsmanlike conduct penalty. We only scored 10 and lost by seven to the Rams in a game where Rodney Hampton ran for 112 yards by Brown threw two picks. You think we could have squeezed two or three more wins out of that? I do.
The coaches see him every day. They see him in drills at practice. He probably gets plenty of reps with the scout team. And there is a reason why the coaches regard Nassib as a capable but career backup.
Seriously, if you were the GM and pulled that shit, the second we realized that Nassib was closer to the next Kent Graham than the next Joe Montana, I would leave daily flaming bags of dogshit on your front step.
Let me make this clear.
YOU
DO
NOT
GET
RID
OF
A
FRANCHISE
QUARTERBACK
UNLESS
YOU
HAVE
THE
NEXT
SURE
THING
WAITING
IN
THE
WINGS.
The last time we did that was late Spring 1994, when George Young cut Phil Simms to see what this kid Dave Brown had. How did that turn out? Phil Simms made the Pro Bowl in 1993, the first time in eight years. He recorded the highest completion percentage in his career. He had offseason surgery, but his prognosis was excellent.
In the 1994 season, we went 9-7 with Dave Fucking Brown. Imagine if we had Phil Simms instead? We lost to Arizona by one point. We lost by four to the Steelers when Brown fumbled the ball at the 1 (although he had both knees down). We lost in OT to the Lions. We lost by five to the Saints, where we had a last minute drive derailed by a Chris Calloway unsportsmanlike conduct penalty. We only scored 10 and lost by seven to the Rams in a game where Rodney Hampton ran for 112 yards by Brown threw two picks. You think we could have squeezed two or three more wins out of that? I do.
Great post.
How does anyone know how the coaches regard Nassib? His lack of playing time is no meaningful reflection of what they think of him.
That said...I have a hard time making Eli a top 10 paid QB in this league...and he may be demanding a top 5 contract.
Eli hits free agency. Coughlin retires. McAdoo takes over the the reigns. The Giants draft a QB to compete with Nassib for the starting role. The Giants now having a top of money sign JPP, Prince, and a few other key players.
BBI has had folks sincerely claim Andre Woodson was the next Tom Brady, David Carr was better than half the starters in the league, Jared Lorenzen just had to stop eating so much and he'd have been better than Eli, and that letting Rhett Bomar go was the greatest mistake Jerry Reese would ever make -- and that's just here. Of course Nassib is all world based on one pre-season (in which he temporarily got demoted behind Curtis Painter, no less) and the next Drew Brees.
And, regardless of how I think he fits here (the team stinks and his window may not reach the time when it may not), Eli would be a moron if he took a dime less than the most he could get from this team if they approach him on a new deal. This team hasn't done anywhere near enough to deserve that type of faith, that a few million would somehow be put to significantly beneficial use, shown in them by any player lately, forget one that's largely had his career/image re-derailed in part by a roster that's been decaying in many ways since 2008.
That said...I have a hard time making Eli a top 10 paid QB in this league...and he may be demanding a top 5 contract.
Sy with all due respect as a great admirer of your football knowledge and posts on the subject but you started a thread this season on should we move on from Eli after his 5 int game..you are hardly Pro-Eli..
Because you can't restructure someone with only one year left.
You can extend them, but there's not been any reason to do that just yet. For better or worse, they clearly weren't interested in any of the top FAs this year outside of McCourty (who rebuffed their allegedly sizable offer to stay in NE).
Giants.
However, I agree with the opinion that when you have a franchise quarterback you keep him. As a Giants fan since 56.....there have been
Conerly
Tittle
Tarkington
Snead - (yes Norm Snead had a great year)
Then Simms
and Eli
as quarterbacks that gave the Giants a chance to win every Sunday. Those years without those guys, you just never felt that late in the game there were going to be those game winning drives.
Keep Eli
I agree Nassib looked sharp; I watched as closely as possible from a TV screen, 1 angle. However, as we all know, that doesn't translate to NFL success for multiple reasons. The reverse is more telling in that if a QB sucks in pre-season games, he's almost sure to be shitty in real games.
Sooner or later Eli will have to go. It could be as many as 6 years though. Mannings were built with carbon-fiber parts. A franchise QB is the most valuable asset a team can have. I would take a lot for me to trade Eli but I'd consider it with what I wrote above.
I will say, from an Eli perspective, why should he not ask top dollar. I don't even know what his guaranteed money should be with the amount he is getting drilled behind the line they've been putting in front of him.
That being said. I personally don't believe that Eli deserves the same type of money as the top 5 QB's in this league. Top 10? Probably. IMHO though his contract is handcuffing the Giants.
For anyone to use that the team has lacked the personel excuse to have Eli flourish. Well Eli's massive contract is part of the reason (obviously not the only) that there is not enough money for the personel he apparently needs. Guys like Brady and Rodgers obviously need less to win which is why their large contracts are less draining on their particular teams. That is why they are two of the best in the entire league.
There have been medicore QB's who have won Superbowls. Dilfer, Rypien, Johnson, Flacco. Point is that they all had teams around them that hid their numerous weaknesses and allowed them to win.
So why not Nassib. I like Nassib. Watched him a lot in college. He is a good QB IMO. Solid tools. Does this mean that my opinion is right? I don't know. Will he be the next Montana? Who knows. Maybe he will in fact be the next Dave Brown.
However unless you or I are on the staff of the team who work with this kid on a daily basis. Your and my opinions mean absolutely zero, because we DO NOT know. If we did. Then would be the guys working with him on a daily basis and getting NFL coaching salaries.
Remember that Brady started the 2000 season as #3 behind Bledstoe and Freiz before moving to back up and then starter only because of injury in 2001 and Farve was the third stringer in Atlanta behind Chris Miller and Billy Joe Tolliver for the 1991 season before being picked up by Green Bay.
I would be more than happy to have the next Dilfer or Rypien playing QB if he wins the Giants a Superbowl and the money and the draft picks the team received from Eli put the team in that Superbowl and helped the Giants be a solid contender for the next decade.
I'm so blinded by his comportment and the way he has handled himself in this market and his peak performances in big spots that I'm not sure I could objectively identify a diminishment of his skills, even if i wanted to. I mean he looks pretty much the same guy to me who won his first championship seven years ago, if not better.
Plus, now he has Beckham which will probably add four years to his career.
How do you part with someone like that? Can't he do something fucked up so we had a real reason to get rid of him?
Damn you Eli.
There have been medicore QB's who have won Superbowls. ...Flacco.
Hey brother - Who are you anyway? Have you watched me play? I sure as hell ain't a mediocre QB - Joe Flacco
[/quote]
For anyone to use that the team has lacked the personel excuse to have Eli flourish. Well Eli's massive contract is part of the reason (obviously not the only) that there is not enough money for the personel he apparently needs. Guys like Brady and Rodgers obviously need less to win which is why their large contracts are less draining on their particular teams. That is why they are two of the best in the entire league.
There have been medicore QB's who have won Superbowls. Dilfer, Rypien, Johnson, Flacco. Point is that they all had teams around them that hid their numerous weaknesses and allowed them to win
Can we stop this crap about Rodgers and Brady need less to win..Holy shit
Eli Manning has led 2 teams to SB wins that were MUCH MUCH weaker than any team that Brady and Rodgers won with..
Time waits for no man.
Quote:
For anyone to use that the team has lacked the personel excuse to have Eli flourish. Well Eli's massive contract is part of the reason (obviously not the only) that there is not enough money for the personel he apparently needs. Guys like Brady and Rodgers obviously need less to win which is why their large contracts are less draining on their particular teams. That is why they are two of the best in the entire league.
There have been medicore QB's who have won Superbowls. Dilfer, Rypien, Johnson, Flacco. Point is that they all had teams around them that hid their numerous weaknesses and allowed them to win
Can we stop this crap about Rodgers and Brady need less to win..Holy shit
Eli Manning has led 2 teams to SB wins that were MUCH MUCH weaker than any team that Brady and Rodgers won with..
You want to disagree. That is fine.
The fact that I obviously hit a nerve with you was not my intention.
We can agree to disagree.
Or He has to piss off ownership by demanding a contract that effectively handcuffs the team again. You are permitted to handcuff a team with a Super Bowl win. But if Eli played hardball, I'd be open to moving on.
That said, the Giants organization is loyal to a fault. And I can't see them ever confronting reality without bias
Yeah, you are right. A guy who hasnt even take a single snap is just as good as a top 10 QB in football. And we are going to judge that based via of a preseason game?
No way in hell. No way.
If Nassib ends up being the better fit for macs offense well congrats you found Eli's replacement.
If Nassib ends up being the better fit for macs offense well congrats you found Eli's replacement.
You are not going to find out in a preseason game either. Teams are very vanilla in those situations. The only way you are going to find out the value of Nassib is in a regular season game, and until Eli is hurt or inept - we will not find what he has.
Even if he decides to leave the Giants after his 4 years, unless something bad happens to Eli, Nassib will be nearly worthless. He's have to get a team to invite him to camp and hope he can win a job.
Quote:
This shit really drives me nuts. You have these people who don't see certain players in games, so they somehow assume that the coaches' have no idea about their ability. You act like the coaches have no clue whatsoever about how good Nassib is, and if they would just give him command of the offense, we might have the next Joe Montana.
The coaches see him every day. They see him in drills at practice. He probably gets plenty of reps with the scout team. And there is a reason why the coaches regard Nassib as a capable but career backup.
Seriously, if you were the GM and pulled that shit, the second we realized that Nassib was closer to the next Kent Graham than the next Joe Montana, I would leave daily flaming bags of dogshit on your front step.
Let me make this clear.
YOU
DO
NOT
GET
RID
OF
A
FRANCHISE
QUARTERBACK
UNLESS
YOU
HAVE
THE
NEXT
SURE
THING
WAITING
IN
THE
WINGS.
The last time we did that was late Spring 1994, when George Young cut Phil Simms to see what this kid Dave Brown had. How did that turn out? Phil Simms made the Pro Bowl in 1993, the first time in eight years. He recorded the highest completion percentage in his career. He had offseason surgery, but his prognosis was excellent.
In the 1994 season, we went 9-7 with Dave Fucking Brown. Imagine if we had Phil Simms instead? We lost to Arizona by one point. We lost by four to the Steelers when Brown fumbled the ball at the 1 (although he had both knees down). We lost in OT to the Lions. We lost by five to the Saints, where we had a last minute drive derailed by a Chris Calloway unsportsmanlike conduct penalty. We only scored 10 and lost by seven to the Rams in a game where Rodney Hampton ran for 112 yards by Brown threw two picks. You think we could have squeezed two or three more wins out of that? I do.
NAILED IT
Great post.
It's amazing people are quick to move on from Eli considering how difficult it is to find a QB in this league.