Time to stir the pot with Eli

Nassib is an unknown commodity. Any discussion of his abilities (positive or negative) is lacking evidence.

That's completely fair but the issue is forced upon us now since Eli needs a new contract. Are you ready to give Eli a 5 year contract? Is it the most prudent thing to do? It just might be.

If by 4-5 years is nearing the end

of ANY Giants player, ONLY when that option is better. You don't make this switch with the 'hope' that things will be better. To install Nassib over Eli isn't supportable now (IMHO).

But the only issue is...there isn't a replacement worth pursuing. Who knows what's out there via the trade market...but the shake up won't briong better results.

That said...I have a hard time making Eli a top 10 paid QB in this league...and he may be demanding a top 5 contract.

Yeah, I think he's nearing the end. I don't think he's going to be a playing till 40 type of guy but I could be wrong. If you could promise me today that Eli will stay the same for the next 5 years then I think they should sign him to another deal. However, I don't feel good about that scenario and I'm further concerned that paying him 20+ million dollars a year might not be worth it. Maybe they have no choice.

is 35 after this season, before a new contract would start.

I'm not so sure that 4 - 5 year left is un-debateable.

Not every QB plays until they are 39 - 40 years old and maintains a high level of play.

I tend to agree with you, but it's not without some doubt.

The minute he got some pass protection and weapons, he posted career highs in accuracy and touchdowns.

than Eli. Period. He isn't going to play unless Eli gets hurt.

As usual, Sy56 makes the most sense.

He is not rebuilding, I guess he goes too? It isn't happening, I'm not sold on Nassib being the next big thing.

MacAdoo's system and to my eyes improved at looked more comfortable in it, so trade him and let the new guy go through a year learning the system

The problem is - how to you have a known commodity to replace him with unless you're drafting #1 in a QB draft? They will have to gamble at some point and the only way we're in that position is if Eli's remaining years are a disaster or we wait until Eli retires, suck and then get a QB in the draft. This question is about sustainability long term (Peyton - Luck; Favre - Rogers). Granted, we don't know enough about Nassib - but I think we've got something there. Might be too late though after we sign Eli for 20m+ / year.

on the Giants season

regarding the future of the team, salary cap, etc., but this team only has about five good players on it, and Eli's one of them, so I'm in no rush to usher him out. Seeing how Reese has "addressed" the problems at OL, DL, TE, LB and S over the years, I'm scared shitless of his search for Eli's replacement.

I think Nassib might be better suited for this system. Hey, it's easy to do nothing. However, I bet the front office is thinking hard about this as well. I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that Eli deserves what he's going to ask for.

or a longer deal that is essentially three years beginning in 2016.

Ha, good point. The front office would have to believe they have something special in Nassib. I keep thinking of the Brees/Rivers scenario. No one throught Brees was going to be that good. I can't help but think of Brees when I see Nassib. Doth my eyes deceive me?

I don't think you trade a franchise quarterback. Ever. They are too hard to come by. You can ask any of the approx. 2 dozen teams that don't have one.

I guess at the end of the day I see an issue looming which is Eli's next contract. I don't think it's going to be as cut and dry as some might think. He is going to want top 5 money. Is he worth it? Maybe.

Also, don't forget. I like Eli and if they sign him that's great. I'm just attempting to be objective as tough decisions are looming.

In comment 12181416 Victor in CT said:

Quote:

than Eli. Period. He isn't going to play unless Eli gets hurt. As usual, Sy56 makes the most sense.

Yeah, Sy makes sense. He said he'd have trouble paying Eli like a top 10 QB, so basically he's saying Eli should make less than Alex Smith and Matt Stafford (in terms of AAV) (along with stalwarts like Jay Cutler and Colin Kaepernick).

I like Sy, but that's ridiculous. The duration would bother me more on an Eli deal than the $$ because I agree with Sy on the first part (you need a replacement before deciding to not re-sign Eli) and for the next couple seasons that answer isn't obvious.

looking to replace upper tier QB's in the next few years: Peyton, Brees, Brady, Rivers, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Eli... There are some teams that are not going to be able to replace a franchise quarterback.

So... it's not unreasonable to start thinking about the next step.

Eli has say 3 years left. The day will come. I rue that day. Think about Phil Simms and his lat game to Eli's first game. Kerry Collins was OK, a lot of them stunk.Some teams never get a top tier QB ( see Jets) go back to Joe Namath. The Giants might not see a top tier QB for 20 years. I'm not ready to think about replacing Eli

...with each day that passes without a long term deal, I more and more think we should trade him. His salary is killing our ability to make even modest UFA signings. And he is not irreplaceable. In fact, he is highly replaceable, IMO. Ayers outperformed him last year IMO, and Ayers was an easy, affordable get. Also, unlike other positions, rookie DEs can make an instant impact.

So I would like to see him traded for a 1st, either this year or preferably next year's first and a 2nd this year.

every game so we can get the first overall pick and maybe build a viable team.

is Eli's age. Other than thatm it just doesn't make sense. This isn't like his brother's situation where the Colts had Luck just drafted when they parted ways with an injured Peyton.

I happen to like Nassib. But, to suggest he showed anything more than promise or potential is just not accurate. So, you would propose replacing a possible HOF QB still in his prime and coming off of one of his top 2 or 3 seasons for a guy who has exactly 0 starts and threw a few nice balls against backup DBs last summer? I'm just not seeing it.

One thing that struck me recently was Reese mentioning Nassib's progress last year. He didn't have to say that. Why did he go out of his point that out?

I was wrong.

1) either you give Eli the extension and go all in for the next three or four years with the signing of free agents and trades.

Or

2) you don't sign (but do what NO is doing) and do a complete rebuild by moving JPP and Eli and prepare for another run in a couple of years.

I've been pretty patient but the giants should be all in on one of the two (above). If not it's 8-8 for the next three and then we rebuild all over again.

In comment 12181415 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

The minute he got some pass protection and weapons, he posted career highs in accuracy and touchdowns.

Exactly, we never have to worry as long as he is behind center. He is reliable and that is worth the money alone. Look at these teams with lousy QB's. They are bad. Eli can single handle win a game. He deserves what is fair market.

did you see what those 2 did last year in their first dozen games together?

Yea let's just throw that away, Beckham could've done that with any QB.

Eli's a playmaker and big-game hunter. I was a little worried about him last off-season after that putrid '13 season, but last year made me feel a lot better. He's a Giant for life and he's absolutely a positive for this team and I feel a lot more confident about winning a Super Bowl in the next 5 years if Eli's on this team.

In comment 12181434 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

In comment 12181416 Victor in CT said: Quote: than Eli. Period. He isn't going to play unless Eli gets hurt. As usual, Sy56 makes the most sense. Yeah, Sy makes sense. He said he'd have trouble paying Eli like a top 10 QB, so basically he's saying Eli should make less than Alex Smith and Matt Stafford (in terms of AAV) (along with stalwarts like Jay Cutler and Colin Kaepernick). I like Sy, but that's ridiculous. The duration would bother me more on an Eli deal than the $$ because I agree with Sy on the first part (you need a replacement before deciding to not re-sign Eli) and for the next couple seasons that answer isn't obvious.

He wouldn't but we all know the Giants will. And he also agrees that there isn't a better alternative.

I agree and disagree at the same time. Is Eli blameless in our demise since 2011? Is he getting too much slack? 2007-2011 is a long time ago. Again, this debate only holds water if you think Nassib is a guy that can lead a franchise. If not, then the debate is over. I liked what I saw last year which has me intrigued but concede that it would be tough to go on that information alone. Regardless, when Nassib becomes a stud QB - remember who saw the potential first. If he sucks - this thread will be forgotten anyway. lol.

In comment 12181421 ZogZerg said:

Quote:

on the Giants season

Hell it's not even April...

he should be paid like one. And the nature of NFL contracts is always next man up gets more.

he overthrows Hynoski in the flat. Really looking forward to that

a top 10 QB in the league. And right now, there are only 3 I would take ahead of him for next year. Brady/Rodgers/Luck. Thats it (basing it off not knowing how healthy his brother is.)

In comment 12181447 drkenneth said:

Quote:

I was wrong.

This..

The giants make no noise this free agency and now it is time to blow everything up.. only on BBI...

Simms was cut and then we saw from 1994 through 1999:

1) Dave Brown (#1 supplemental draft pick) - SUCKED
2) Kent Graham - journeyman backup
3) Danny Kanell - sucked

it took 6 years just to get someone to provide competent QB play in Kerry Collins.

And now you want to toss 11 years of a mainly winning, sometimes excellent and always healthy, never missed a game QB for a low round maybe like Nassib? Because he put some #s against the 4th stringers in preseason?

comment about the lack of any viable alternative.

Are you serious? You want to sensor a topic of discussion about the future of the team? I would assume that the tone of my posts would translate to this being a logical discussion. This isn't Eli sucks! If you are all in on Eli then say so and be done with it. Point made. I'm not so sure and that's my point. This isn't challenging stuff.

a treasure chest of picks, to comparing him to Drew Brees?

I am just not sure how to respond to that, other than to remind people he has never taken a meaningful snap against an NFL caliber defense.

The fact that Reese praised him, probably means he made progress. That doesn't mean he is an NFL caliber starting QB.

In comment 12181447 drkenneth said:

Quote:

I was wrong.

THIS

No, I'm 6 years old. I only remember Eli.

to successfully replace a franchise QB.

In comment 12181486 Micko said:

Quote:

No, I'm 6 years old. I only remember Eli.

:-)

Fair enough. You don't see the potential. What I'm putting on the table is that I saw the potential there last year and I'm intrigued by it. Granted, I'm an amazing talent evaluator so I can understand why others are showing dissent.

lol

he has a chance to have better weapons and a year in the offense along with a better line

I should also add that I would like nothing more than for Eli and Coughlin to ride of into the sunset together winning more Super bowls and Eli going to the HOF. What I'm not sure is how realistic that is. I love being wrong when it means the team was successful.

Unless for some reason he decides to retire sooner or heaven forbid suffers an injury, Eli has at least another 3-4 years of playing football at a high level, maybe more.

As it stands now, the Giants only hope for winning games is almost solely on Eli (and Beckham). How on earth can you envision a scenario where the Giants would make a change at QB in the near future.

I, along with John Mara, are dreading the day the Giants have to go find Eli Manning's replacement and hopefully that day is several years from now.

theat Eli shouldn't give the Giants a discount. He got his 20 mill a year contract and was not a top 10 QB while playing under it. You can say it was not his fault, but he should give 10 million back for 2013 alone. He is nearing the end of his career, his brother, who no one though would agree to a pay cut, agreed to a 4 mill a year haircut. Brady set the stage for this idea, why the fuck should Eli not be willing to take 16 or 17 mill a year to play out his last contract. It could be the difference in getting a high profile free agent for him to throw to or to block for him.

But no, I wouldn't want to make the move to Nassib until it was undeniable that it was time to move on from Eli, I don't think its going to happen over money. I think Eli should accept a club friendly deal, and I don't think it is out of the question since Peyton just did.

In comment 12181493 GiantsFan84 said:

Quote:

he has a chance to have better weapons and a year in the offense along with a better line

He was last year too.

I think Nassib has some upside, but I think the number of people who have seen something in Nassib that would make them think of Drew Brees is probably a very small club. I would also guess that most members of that club probably share the last name Nassib.

Stirring the pot? Maybe. However, you made a good point about trying to find the next QB. I believe my point is what if we have that QB on our roster now in Nassib and at the same time we have to sign Eli to another huge deal? Again, I assume most don't see the potential in Nassib yet. My point, is I see something there that makes me pause w/ Eli.

lol.

...and that's the notion that a new contract with Eli has to be a cap killer. With all the talk about the cap headed North at a high rate of speed, now seems an appropriate time to get this done.

In two or three years, Eli may be regarded as a relative bargain, with other QBs making in the neighborhood of 25 - 30 MM, with outrageous guarantees.

would give their right arm to have Eli (and his right arm and the rest of him) in 2015 and beyond.

Eli has looked bad when his OL has been bad. Most QBs do.

Eli (knock on wood) has been the most durable QB during his era. His performance has been demonstrated numerous times to increase in tough situations and big games. There are no signs (that I know of or have heard discussed) that Eli's physical skills have diminished at all (often true of pocket QBs).

I think it is reasonable to assume he can play at a high level for at least 3 to likely 5 more years. "Blowing it up" now (if that means getting rid of Eli) makes no sense to me.

Eli or what goes on in his or with talks with his family but another thing you can count on is he is a class guy and the Giants are a class organization. Id like to think both parties know whats fair and cut a deal. Should be a win/win.

One more thought, Eli is the Derek Jeter of the tri state area. They both go out and do their thing. You don't trade that. Ever.

but isn't it a little late now for FA home runs? most of the low hanging fruit is long gone - especially in the defensive backfield and DL where the giants need high quality and experience the most?

although its still REALLY early in FA season hysteria, a jpp extension could move... what... $5-7 million back into the pool? probably not going to make a huge difference but it sets the right tone. unfortunately, i don't think the giants are in the driver's seat at all there.

secondly, eli should indeed get off the dime if he wants another ring. to be clear, i like eli. a lot (and agree there IS NO REPLACEMENT that compares) - he's smart, manages the "new" offense with skill, still has the arm and sees the field well. obviously, the only thing he can't do at all is run.but immobility hasn't seemed to compromise, flacco, peyton or brady's career and the gunners haven't exactly won a ton of championships. still, eli has to come to the table. what's a HOF bust worth to him... giving up a present value $18 million for a 3 year extension at $22m per ? plus, he can do all the lame ass toyota commercials he wants.

of you don't know what you've got till it's gone. When he leaves...he'll be sorely missed.

Don't wait until the draft, or mini-camp, or OTAs, or training camp. And definitely don't wait until a regular season game is played.

Good hustle.

Look at what Eli did with Beckham. Insane numbers. Imagine you Nassib who most likely is like a Kent Graham, Dave Brown type QB. All of a sudden Beckhams numbers will be lower.
Id like to see Eli and Beckham for the next 4-5 years. Possibly looking at close to 10,000 yds each and numerous TD's between these guys. WORTH IT.

has diminished? His foot speed?

people have their judgement eroded by the fantasy football numbers everyone else put up while he played and won in an offense that was woefully out of date by the time it was replaced.

cap hit?

So you dump Eli (lunacy) then you get lucky and draft another franchise QB (good luck with that) by the time that team is likely to completer with the rookie at the helm HE will be due a huge salary increase.

That argument does not hold up to me.

with Beckham looking like he can be the best WR in the game Eli could be an odds on favorite for league MVP.

I wold love to see that just to see what excuses the media and others would make then.

all you like, I ain't eating that swill.

I especially like the post where it states that Eli must come to the table. I had no idea he had refused to negotiate a contract that hadn't even been broached as of yet.

You couldn't make some of this shit up if you were tripping on acid.

He has made it clear, with a wife and children, football is not the priority it once was. Eli is the epitome of "Mr Durable" but, each time he took/takes a hit, the greater the physical effect. He has ended the last 2 years injured, lets not spit into the wind. I can't say Nassib "is" the answer although he looked good in the last preseason. He is more proven than any potential qb who might be taken 1st in this years draft. Oh, and by the way, Big Ben is the only NFL Rookie QB to win a SB as a starter. I am not sure when any or all of Eli's salary for 2015 is guaranteed but, I can't see him being traded. JMHO.

In comment 12181595 dguy901 said:

Quote:

He has made it clear, with a wife and children, football is not the priority it once was. Eli is the epitome of "Mr Durable" but, each time he took/takes a hit, the greater the physical effect. He has ended the last 2 years injured, lets not spit into the wind. I can't say Nassib "is" the answer although he looked good in the last preseason. He is more proven than any potential qb who might be taken 1st in this years draft. Oh, and by the way, Big Ben is the only NFL Rookie QB to win a SB as a starter. I am not sure when any or all of Eli's salary for 2015 is guaranteed but, I can't see him being traded. JMHO.

I'm speechless and find false statements all over this post

In comment 12181595 dguy901 said:

Quote:

He is more proven than any potential qb who might be taken 1st in this years draft. Oh, and by the way, Big Ben is the only NFL Rookie QB to win a SB as a starter.

Are you still trolling every thread you can find in order to jump on Winston, even when nobody is talking about him? This is becoming creepy.

This shit really drives me nuts. You have these people who don't see certain players in games, so they somehow assume that the coaches' have no idea about their ability. You act like the coaches have no clue whatsoever about how good Nassib is, and if they would just give him command of the offense, we might have the next Joe Montana.

The coaches see him every day. They see him in drills at practice. He probably gets plenty of reps with the scout team. And there is a reason why the coaches regard Nassib as a capable but career backup.

Seriously, if you were the GM and pulled that shit, the second we realized that Nassib was closer to the next Kent Graham than the next Joe Montana, I would leave daily flaming bags of dogshit on your front step.

Let me make this clear.

YOU
DO
NOT
GET
RID
OF
A
FRANCHISE
QUARTERBACK
UNLESS
YOU
HAVE
THE
NEXT
SURE
THING
WAITING
IN
THE
WINGS.

The last time we did that was late Spring 1994, when George Young cut Phil Simms to see what this kid Dave Brown had. How did that turn out? Phil Simms made the Pro Bowl in 1993, the first time in eight years. He recorded the highest completion percentage in his career. He had offseason surgery, but his prognosis was excellent.

In the 1994 season, we went 9-7 with Dave Fucking Brown. Imagine if we had Phil Simms instead? We lost to Arizona by one point. We lost by four to the Steelers when Brown fumbled the ball at the 1 (although he had both knees down). We lost in OT to the Lions. We lost by five to the Saints, where we had a last minute drive derailed by a Chris Calloway unsportsmanlike conduct penalty. We only scored 10 and lost by seven to the Rams in a game where Rodney Hampton ran for 112 yards by Brown threw two picks. You think we could have squeezed two or three more wins out of that? I do.

In comment 12181615 Bramton1 said:

Quote:

This shit really drives me nuts. You have these people who don't see certain players in games, so they somehow assume that the coaches' have no idea about their ability. You act like the coaches have no clue whatsoever about how good Nassib is, and if they would just give him command of the offense, we might have the next Joe Montana. The coaches see him every day. They see him in drills at practice. He probably gets plenty of reps with the scout team. And there is a reason why the coaches regard Nassib as a capable but career backup. Seriously, if you were the GM and pulled that shit, the second we realized that Nassib was closer to the next Kent Graham than the next Joe Montana, I would leave daily flaming bags of dogshit on your front step. Let me make this clear. YOU DO NOT GET RID OF A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK UNLESS YOU HAVE THE NEXT SURE THING WAITING IN THE WINGS. The last time we did that was late Spring 1994, when George Young cut Phil Simms to see what this kid Dave Brown had. How did that turn out? Phil Simms made the Pro Bowl in 1993, the first time in eight years. He recorded the highest completion percentage in his career. He had offseason surgery, but his prognosis was excellent. In the 1994 season, we went 9-7 with Dave Fucking Brown. Imagine if we had Phil Simms instead? We lost to Arizona by one point. We lost by four to the Steelers when Brown fumbled the ball at the 1 (although he had both knees down). We lost in OT to the Lions. We lost by five to the Saints, where we had a last minute drive derailed by a Chris Calloway unsportsmanlike conduct penalty. We only scored 10 and lost by seven to the Rams in a game where Rodney Hampton ran for 112 yards by Brown threw two picks. You think we could have squeezed two or three more wins out of that? I do.

Great post.

In comment 12181615 Bramton1 said:

Quote:

The coaches see him every day. They see him in drills at practice. He probably gets plenty of reps with the scout team. And there is a reason why the coaches regard Nassib as a capable but career backup.

How does anyone know how the coaches regard Nassib? His lack of playing time is no meaningful reflection of what they think of him.

Eli is the Giants' starting QB until he retires. Period. The End.

In comment 12181408 Sy'56 said:

Quote:

But the only issue is...there isn't a replacement worth pursuing. Who knows what's out there via the trade market...but the shake up won't briong better results. That said...I have a hard time making Eli a top 10 paid QB in this league...and he may be demanding a top 5 contract.

Why should you be, Sy? The two-time Super Bowl-winning MVP? The guy who hasn't missed a game in 84 seasons? What's to like?

I'll admit, this was a bit of a social experiment & it's been fun.

Eli becomes a free agent after this season, same with JPP, same with Prince. Those are the Giants most expensive guys. Nassib has two years left on his contract. It's a distant chance that after another bad season the following happens:

Eli hits free agency. Coughlin retires. McAdoo takes over the the reigns. The Giants draft a QB to compete with Nassib for the starting role. The Giants now having a top of money sign JPP, Prince, and a few other key players.

on this team.

BBI has had folks sincerely claim Andre Woodson was the next Tom Brady, David Carr was better than half the starters in the league, Jared Lorenzen just had to stop eating so much and he'd have been better than Eli, and that letting Rhett Bomar go was the greatest mistake Jerry Reese would ever make -- and that's just here. Of course Nassib is all world based on one pre-season (in which he temporarily got demoted behind Curtis Painter, no less) and the next Drew Brees.

And, regardless of how I think he fits here (the team stinks and his window may not reach the time when it may not), Eli would be a moron if he took a dime less than the most he could get from this team if they approach him on a new deal. This team hasn't done anywhere near enough to deserve that type of faith, that a few million would somehow be put to significantly beneficial use, shown in them by any player lately, forget one that's largely had his career/image re-derailed in part by a roster that's been decaying in many ways since 2008.

I also wonder what the Giants are thinking - partly b/c I think Nassib may be a better fit for Ben's offense. However, one thing we can all agree on is the best case scenario is that the Giants can turn things around quickly and Eli is our QB until he retires. Hopefully, we don't have to face this decision but there is no question this decision is coming. Eli is a big investment. One that will make or break the organization for the next 10 years. 5 with Eli and 5+ finding the next QB. What if the next QB is already here? If he's not then this is a non-issue.

and really, why haven't we re-structured Eli yet?

In comment 12181408 Sy'56 said:

Quote:

But the only issue is...there isn't a replacement worth pursuing. Who knows what's out there via the trade market...but the shake up won't briong better results. That said...I have a hard time making Eli a top 10 paid QB in this league...and he may be demanding a top 5 contract.

Sy with all due respect as a great admirer of your football knowledge and posts on the subject but you started a thread this season on should we move on from Eli after his 5 int game..you are hardly Pro-Eli..

Manning to Beckham and enjoy it in peace? Why can't I have nice things without people trying to suck the life out of my joy? Why?

In comment 12181714 Micko said:

Quote:

and really, why haven't we re-structured Eli yet?

Because you can't restructure someone with only one year left.

You can extend them, but there's not been any reason to do that just yet. For better or worse, they clearly weren't interested in any of the top FAs this year outside of McCourty (who rebuffed their allegedly sizable offer to stay in NE).

I to was enamored by Nassib, and don't see him as another Dave Brown. I will also be disappointed when he leaves the
Giants.

However, I agree with the opinion that when you have a franchise quarterback you keep him. As a Giants fan since 56.....there have been

Conerly
Tittle
Tarkington
Snead - (yes Norm Snead had a great year)
Then Simms
and Eli

as quarterbacks that gave the Giants a chance to win every Sunday. Those years without those guys, you just never felt that late in the game there were going to be those game winning drives.

Keep Eli

I think Eli is worth more than a top 10 pick. Maybe a top 10 pick this year, next years 1st and 2nd would be about right in my book.

I agree Nassib looked sharp; I watched as closely as possible from a TV screen, 1 angle. However, as we all know, that doesn't translate to NFL success for multiple reasons. The reverse is more telling in that if a QB sucks in pre-season games, he's almost sure to be shitty in real games.

Sooner or later Eli will have to go. It could be as many as 6 years though. Mannings were built with carbon-fiber parts. A franchise QB is the most valuable asset a team can have. I would take a lot for me to trade Eli but I'd consider it with what I wrote above.

at QB when Eli is going to be 35. But Eli really did well this year, he may really light it up in this offense for the next few years. And I am someone who likes Nassib and his potential. My biggest question is the Giants in general. What team do we have? Could they blow things up if this year is a failure? Do we drop a gigantic contract at QB in that circumstance, doesn't really line up with a rebuild.

I will say, from an Eli perspective, why should he not ask top dollar. I don't even know what his guaranteed money should be with the amount he is getting drilled behind the line they've been putting in front of him.

is where Eli is heading, question is when...and enough of the Nassib foolishness.

Since all this talk is hypothetical. This is a business and anyone who thinks that any one player is or should be untouchable is just fooling themseleves.

That being said. I personally don't believe that Eli deserves the same type of money as the top 5 QB's in this league. Top 10? Probably. IMHO though his contract is handcuffing the Giants.

For anyone to use that the team has lacked the personel excuse to have Eli flourish. Well Eli's massive contract is part of the reason (obviously not the only) that there is not enough money for the personel he apparently needs. Guys like Brady and Rodgers obviously need less to win which is why their large contracts are less draining on their particular teams. That is why they are two of the best in the entire league.

There have been medicore QB's who have won Superbowls. Dilfer, Rypien, Johnson, Flacco. Point is that they all had teams around them that hid their numerous weaknesses and allowed them to win.

So why not Nassib. I like Nassib. Watched him a lot in college. He is a good QB IMO. Solid tools. Does this mean that my opinion is right? I don't know. Will he be the next Montana? Who knows. Maybe he will in fact be the next Dave Brown.
However unless you or I are on the staff of the team who work with this kid on a daily basis. Your and my opinions mean absolutely zero, because we DO NOT know. If we did. Then would be the guys working with him on a daily basis and getting NFL coaching salaries.

Remember that Brady started the 2000 season as #3 behind Bledstoe and Freiz before moving to back up and then starter only because of injury in 2001 and Farve was the third stringer in Atlanta behind Chris Miller and Billy Joe Tolliver for the 1991 season before being picked up by Green Bay.

I would be more than happy to have the next Dilfer or Rypien playing QB if he wins the Giants a Superbowl and the money and the draft picks the team received from Eli put the team in that Superbowl and helped the Giants be a solid contender for the next decade.

... by being such a class act, durable and a championship QB.

I'm so blinded by his comportment and the way he has handled himself in this market and his peak performances in big spots that I'm not sure I could objectively identify a diminishment of his skills, even if i wanted to. I mean he looks pretty much the same guy to me who won his first championship seven years ago, if not better.

Plus, now he has Beckham which will probably add four years to his career.

How do you part with someone like that? Can't he do something fucked up so we had a real reason to get rid of him?

Damn you Eli.

Whenever that may be, is going to usher in some pretty lousy football. Re-sign him and enjoy him while he's still here

Eli II. Dream on

Nice post. I appreciate all of the posts on this thread. I was looking for stimulating conversation. Best case scenario is Eli flourishes in this offense for another 5 years and we get back to some good playoff football. However, it's kinda sad to think that Eli is already going to be 35 this season and we know the end is near.

In comment 12182016 Scott in Montreal said:


There have been medicore QB's who have won Superbowls. ...Flacco.


Hey brother - Who are you anyway? Have you watched me play? I sure as hell ain't a mediocre QB - Joe Flacco

[/quote]

You're probably right. That's what worries me.

I was vocal regarding what seemed like Eli's negatives. But once he got into the groove with the new offense plus the appearance of Odell, the guy really came into his own.Still I( always wonder what a quicker, more mobile QB would do in this offense.

In comment 12182016 Scott in Montreal said:

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For anyone to use that the team has lacked the personel excuse to have Eli flourish. Well Eli's massive contract is part of the reason (obviously not the only) that there is not enough money for the personel he apparently needs. Guys like Brady and Rodgers obviously need less to win which is why their large contracts are less draining on their particular teams. That is why they are two of the best in the entire league. There have been medicore QB's who have won Superbowls. Dilfer, Rypien, Johnson, Flacco. Point is that they all had teams around them that hid their numerous weaknesses and allowed them to win

Can we stop this crap about Rodgers and Brady need less to win..Holy shit

Eli Manning has led 2 teams to SB wins that were MUCH MUCH weaker than any team that Brady and Rodgers won with..

I am not convinced that they don't plan to allow him to leave after 2015. Or retire.

Time waits for no man.

Its a fair topic for a Giants discussion board. I also liked what I saw from Nassib, but no way would I do what you proposed. All the many reasons for not doing that have been detailed here right along with the easy to predict BBI hostility.

will never start 5 seasons with one team. In other words, he will NOT be the replacement for Manning nor will he be the franchise QB for any other team. To think he is a franchise QB is pure wishful thinking - and certainly not based upon reality. Proof of the pudding? What would any of the other 31 GMs in the NFL "pay" to get Nassib from the Giants? They are the 31 most knowledgeable football people on the planet. And I think we all know the answer to the question. Not anything close to what they would pay for a legitimate franchise QB. End of story.

which means we have no idea what he can do. He is not ready to step in if Eli should get injured. We really need to find Nassib some garbage time work at minimum. Not doing this means we cannot answer any of the questions referenced earlier in this thread. It means that Reese and Coughlin really don't know what this guy will do under real pressure in game conditions either.

In comment 12182106 JCin332 said:

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In comment 12182016 Scott in Montreal said: Quote: For anyone to use that the team has lacked the personel excuse to have Eli flourish. Well Eli's massive contract is part of the reason (obviously not the only) that there is not enough money for the personel he apparently needs. Guys like Brady and Rodgers obviously need less to win which is why their large contracts are less draining on their particular teams. That is why they are two of the best in the entire league. There have been medicore QB's who have won Superbowls. Dilfer, Rypien, Johnson, Flacco. Point is that they all had teams around them that hid their numerous weaknesses and allowed them to win Can we stop this crap about Rodgers and Brady need less to win..Holy shit Eli Manning has led 2 teams to SB wins that were MUCH MUCH weaker than any team that Brady and Rodgers won with..

You want to disagree. That is fine.
The fact that I obviously hit a nerve with you was not my intention.

We can agree to disagree.

to see steady and consistent decline from Eli this year to consider moving on. Nassib is not the answer. This reminds me of the Jesse Palmer nonsense. But we'll never know unless Eli gets hurt or begins to unravel.

Or He has to piss off ownership by demanding a contract that effectively handcuffs the team again. You are permitted to handcuff a team with a Super Bowl win. But if Eli played hardball, I'd be open to moving on.

That said, the Giants organization is loyal to a fault. And I can't see them ever confronting reality without bias

against starters in pre-season before giving Eli a new contract. If he runs the offense just as good or better then you can have the discussion about a trade. Because at that point saving a ton in cap space and getting a big player in return is a discussion to have. But that scenario is not a plausible one for us.

In comment 12182289 #10* said:

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against starters in pre-season before giving Eli a new contract. If he runs the offense just as good or better then you can have the discussion about a trade. Because at that point saving a ton in cap space and getting a big player in return is a discussion to have. But that scenario is not a plausible one for us.

Yeah, you are right. A guy who hasnt even take a single snap is just as good as a top 10 QB in football. And we are going to judge that based via of a preseason game?

.

I'm with whoever said if you're going to Trade Eli than Trade Eli and JPP' (for a Kings Ransom). But all this would also have to be Cleared with TC as that means NO PLAYOFFS AGAIN ! So not this year next year because what is JPP going to be like after 15 million in his Pocket ? might get hurt too. Another below average year with Eli and I could be convinced too.

even if the staff felt Nassib was playing at an amazing level in practice and did everything right, do you really think Coughlin would play him over Eli if Eli was continuing to play as he did in 2014?

No way in hell. No way.

Not saying I want Eli gone, far from it I hope he retires a giant but when the giants drafted Nassib they thought they had great value so I think we want to see what that value is. And there's no way to establish that going up against 2nd team defenses. They traded up to get him he deserves to establish his value.

If Nassib ends up being the better fit for macs offense well congrats you found Eli's replacement.

In comment 12182517 #10* said:

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Not saying I want Eli gone, far from it I hope he retires a giant but when the giants drafted Nassib they thought they had great value so I think we want to see what that value is. And there's no way to establish that going up against 2nd team defenses. They traded up to get him he deserves to establish his value. If Nassib ends up being the better fit for macs offense well congrats you found Eli's replacement.

You are not going to find out in a preseason game either. Teams are very vanilla in those situations. The only way you are going to find out the value of Nassib is in a regular season game, and until Eli is hurt or inept - we will not find what he has.

as the best players play.

and you know you're doing really well and believe you are ready to start a lucrative NFL career? He's signed for a few more years and has no way to improve his income.

Even if he decides to leave the Giants after his 4 years, unless something bad happens to Eli, Nassib will be nearly worthless. He's have to get a team to invite him to camp and hope he can win a job.

on the season, less then one week into free agency. Go be a jetplane fan.

In comment 12181623 Fish said:

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In comment 12181615 Bramton1 said: Quote: This shit really drives me nuts. You have these people who don't see certain players in games, so they somehow assume that the coaches' have no idea about their ability. You act like the coaches have no clue whatsoever about how good Nassib is, and if they would just give him command of the offense, we might have the next Joe Montana. The coaches see him every day. They see him in drills at practice. He probably gets plenty of reps with the scout team. And there is a reason why the coaches regard Nassib as a capable but career backup. Seriously, if you were the GM and pulled that shit, the second we realized that Nassib was closer to the next Kent Graham than the next Joe Montana, I would leave daily flaming bags of dogshit on your front step. Let me make this clear. YOU DO NOT GET RID OF A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK UNLESS YOU HAVE THE NEXT SURE THING WAITING IN THE WINGS. The last time we did that was late Spring 1994, when George Young cut Phil Simms to see what this kid Dave Brown had. How did that turn out? Phil Simms made the Pro Bowl in 1993, the first time in eight years. He recorded the highest completion percentage in his career. He had offseason surgery, but his prognosis was excellent. In the 1994 season, we went 9-7 with Dave Fucking Brown. Imagine if we had Phil Simms instead? We lost to Arizona by one point. We lost by four to the Steelers when Brown fumbled the ball at the 1 (although he had both knees down). We lost in OT to the Lions. We lost by five to the Saints, where we had a last minute drive derailed by a Chris Calloway unsportsmanlike conduct penalty. We only scored 10 and lost by seven to the Rams in a game where Rodney Hampton ran for 112 yards by Brown threw two picks. You think we could have squeezed two or three more wins out of that? I do. NAILED IT Great post.

I feel that the amt. that Eli has been paid already should entitle the giants a break. Offer him 8-10 mil. per for 3 years. If he says no, trade him now and move on. I want to puke when I hear over paid jocks whine about needing to `feed my family`. Be like MJ who was the lowest paid player for the Chi. bulls for a long time so he could have good players around him. Eli comes off like a real man. A real man will know when enough is enough. Be a man Eli not a typical greedy super star. I hope that if he is adamant about top 10 $, one more year of poor o-line play will get his attention. Play nassib and find out. He should have played last year.

SB winning QB coming off a very solid season. Sorry you have to be joking.

that he can play in the McAdoo system? Eli & OBJ with a full training camp under their belt should be even better. Why throw that away?

It's amazing people are quick to move on from Eli considering how difficult it is to find a QB in this league.

re-upping Eli's contract. That is what everyone should be talking about. If they were, would they not do it to create room for free agency period. What is the point of doing it now? I think they are going to wait til the middle of the season now if they are going to do it.