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Unlike so many, I have no idea if Giants faired poorly in FA

joeinpa : 3/13/2015 1:52 pm
Until I read about the free agents the Giants acquired, I really didn't know who they were. I am not a casual fan, I watch every Giants game, and almost all the other NFL games during a week. (With the NFL Sunday ticket, Sunday has become an all day viewing.)

So I have to admit I am amazed when I read on BBI the critiques of the players acquired both negative and positive.

But I can't help but wonder if some or even many of the perceptions shared are just fans overreacting because the Giants didn't address the needs they identified.

Here is my question: While I understand that this is what fans do, and that it is fun and what this site is for...... do we really believe we know more than the guys running this team? (I really believe some do.)

I ask because I remember not so long ago when there was overreaction to Reese not addressing the receiver position on this team. I remember how he was criticized for thinking his receivers were better than most think. If I recall correctly those receivers were: Nicks, Cruz, and Manningham.

I also remember that the Giants have built two championship offensive lines, with mid level guys like Diehl and Seubert.

For me, I'm happy with the free agents acquired.
They might have added a return guy that can change the course of a game, a half-back that can do some of what Tiki used to do as a receiver, and maybe a starting linebacker.

Also they have 7 more players to add to this team in the draft.

I get the criticism, that is what fans do, but the arrogant tone in some of the criticism, at least for me, makes them seem transparent in that they are overreactions to the latest development and a disregard for what has transpired previously.


joe,  
Big Blue '56 : 3/13/2015 1:54 pm : link
many have no idea who they're railing against. All they know is there are no NAMES signed yet
I wouldn't say they're faring poorly  
JonC : 3/13/2015 1:59 pm : link
They've addressed some needs at LB, special teams, OT depth, RB rotation.

They definitely haven't hit it out of the ballpark, but relative to what it costs to go after the big prizes, I'd rather they stick to their value board and hunt accordingly.

The part that concerns me is the biggest weaknesses on this team aren't being addressed significantly. Building via the draft was slowed due to a few consecutive poor drafts, and UFA hasn't proven very fruitful in its stead. The DL needs a DE, DT, two safeties, slot CB, and some futureminded prospects at LB. The defense, and finishing the OL, are two big issues with this personnel.

I'm pretty upset.  
Randy in CT : 3/13/2015 2:03 pm : link
we can't sign any more free agents, there's no NFL draft this year and then there will be no cuts later.

WAHHH!!!!
Am I wrong that we have 8 picks this year?  
GiantBlue : 3/13/2015 2:17 pm : link
Didn't we get the Broncos 7 for the kicker?
Last year I thought they did very well ...  
Beer Man : 3/13/2015 2:18 pm : link
only to have a bunch of duds once the season progressed. So far this year I feel like they have signed a bunch of backups and special teamers. So far it hard to say if the team has improved itself all that much.
RE: I wouldn't say they're faring poorly  
dguy901 : 3/13/2015 2:19 pm : link
In comment 12181482 JonC said:
Quote:
They've addressed some needs at LB, special teams, OT depth, RB rotation.

They definitely haven't hit it out of the ballpark, but relative to what it costs to go after the big prizes, I'd rather they stick to their value board and hunt accordingly.

The part that concerns me is the biggest weaknesses on this team aren't being addressed significantly. Building via the draft was slowed due to a few consecutive poor drafts, and UFA hasn't proven very fruitful in its stead. The DL needs a DE, DT, two safeties, slot CB, and some futureminded prospects at LB. The defense, and finishing the OL, are two big issues with this personnel.

Ok, I admit I am a glass half-full kind of guy. With that being said, the OL kept Eli upright late last season for the most part and Pugh had the 1 terrible game where Eli was sacked, I believe 5 times, were his fault while playing injured. We have Schwartz coming back, assuming he is fully recovered, Herman will have a chance to prove he is the answer at an OG position, we added Jones who could pan-out and the giant NY giant, Michael Bamiro, who appears to be fast and strong enough for ROT. With the return of Spags, I expect top defensive talent per the draft, UDFA's and possibly more FA moves. All we can do is hope for the best.
Emotions are running high around here.  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 3/13/2015 2:21 pm : link
I haven't been upset by any of the signings so far. I was pleasantly surprised that we addressed the LB position with cover guys. Safety worries me as it should.

I think it is a bit unrealistic to expect everyone to say, "I was wrong, Reese clearly knows more than I do, so these players must be more important than a starting safety." At this point it is hard to see what his plan is. I try to keep a level head and hope for the best.
RE: Last year I thought they did very well ...  
Big Blue '56 : 3/13/2015 2:24 pm : link
In comment 12181530 Beer Man said:
Quote:
only to have a bunch of duds once the season progressed. So far this year I feel like they have signed a bunch of backups and special teamers. So far it hard to say if the team has improved itself all that much.


They did do well..Perhaps if you amend to this: "Last year I thought they did very well only to watch their acquisitions fall by the wayside due to season ending injuries. Once the season progressed, we had lost Nickle back Thurmond, Jennings, Schwartz, and half-crippled DRC gamely playing the good soldier but it was obvious his skillset was clearly affected.."
I'm not sold on Herman ....  
Beer Man : 3/13/2015 2:25 pm : link
Watching him pancake one defender after another on his college highlight tapes gave me a lot of optimism. However, watching him lunge at and miss defenders in his few opportunities with the Giants (not to mention his poor footwork) doesn’t give me a lot of confidence that he will ever be part of the long term solution for the OL.
Not sold on any of those backup/depth OL, they haven't played in the  
JonC : 3/13/2015 2:33 pm : link
NFL, and it's unlikely the rest of this offseason will fully rebuild the defense. Not that I expected it to as I think they need another full offseason to pull it off.
I am not thrilled with all of the Giants moves  
Jay on the Island : 3/13/2015 2:36 pm : link
in FA. I do really like the Vereen and JT Thomas signings. I like the Harris signing as well but I think they spent a little to much. If he contributes on offense and continues to be a good return man then he was well worth that contract.

I think Vereen is going to be huge for the offense. Thomas will most likely get plenty of playing time on defense especially in the likely event that Beason suffers another injury. There is alot of pressure on Tom Quinn now because the Giants have beefed up special teams and he has no more excuses for them not being a top unit.
Seriously  
Rjanyg : 3/13/2015 2:40 pm : link
It is obvious the Giants know they have an issue at Safety. They tried to get McCourtey and have inquired about the others and I guess IMO they seem to have a plan and part of that plan is not to overpay for a position in March. Trades can be made, 2nd tier free agents are still out there. The market needs to calm down since we are still working out a contract with JPP. The draft could bring a mid round FS. We have 2 SS types on the roster now.

I think the fact that they haven't added a DL or starting caliber OL is more disturbing.

Thing is  
gmen9892 : 3/13/2015 2:46 pm : link
Would anybody be THAT surprised if Schwartz played a full season and both he and Richburg were improvements over Walton and Jerry? I would venture to say that there is a pretty good chance of both of those statements being true. Which already upgrades the line from last year (while the line was far from good last year, it was definitely improved from 2013).

Add to that a possible high draft pick or two and another depth signing, and I really don't think we are that far off from having an above average OL.

I must say I was worried at first with all the "no-name" guys we signed outside of Vereen, but after looking into each one more, I liked them. JT Thomas seems like he has the potential to be a good sleeper signing. Harris could finally help the crappy ST play. Casillas will battle with JT, worst case improve specials.

It's really not even the names  
Strahan91 : 3/13/2015 2:46 pm : link
It's the lack of action. They've only signed a few players and don't seem to be in on any others (not a single visit yet). Reese has an arrogance about him that doesn't seem to serve us well. You look at a team like the Patriots and every offseason they'e actively looking to improve and sign good players that may have a lower price tag for whatever reason (Scott Chandler and likely Percy Harvin). While we have holes all over the roster, won 6 games last year, and are adding a few backups here and there and not very active at all. Feels like we're in for another long season.
I think the arrogant tone mostly originates from the  
chris r : 3/13/2015 2:52 pm : link
holier-than-though-wait-and-see-appeal-to-authority-you-silly-fans-and-your-passion types.
Joe I think it's a couple things  
GiantsFan84 : 3/13/2015 2:57 pm : link
First and most importantly it's not that we signed players for these positions. If you were to tell me before free agency that we'd sign, Herzlich, pick up some good special teams and better backup linebackers, sign a special teams ace and return specialist, and bring back Chykie, I'd have been all for it and I think many people would have. The part that is (rightfully) infuriating us is the amount of money paid for these players.

All these players with the exception of Harris should be making near the minimum and Harris not much above the minimum. The contracts handed out do not appear to match the BBI anticipated roles of these players.

I think we also thought we'd get one premium addition, whether that is OL or S or a DL. That has not happened.

We know Tom and Eli don't have much time left and we as fans feel the urgency to win now.

There is still time to fill needs. Signing Coefield (or someone similar), Miles, a veteran OL to be the 5th starter, maybe still sign Ron Parker will go a long way towards appeasing everyone, so there is still time, but it's scary looking at this defense as assembled as it counts on so many things that are not proven:

1 - Can D. Moore be a full time player or a part time impact player?
2 - Will Ayers be ready for training camp and the season
3 - Will Bromley develop
4 - Will Cooper Taylor finally stay healthy
5 - Are Cooper Taylor and Nat Behre players?

Also, I think people really have their hearts set on drafting Cooper or White in Rd 1 and with so many holes still open, people are getting scared that drafting a WR there may not be a luxury this team can afford.
You're right about tone, Joe,  
Josh in MD : 3/13/2015 3:37 pm : link
and about the presumable relative merits of fan knowledge and professional knowledge, but . . .
1) the state of the team yields legitimate doubts about Reese's personnel judgments; and
2) in 2013 we went 7-9, had a lot of free agency money to spend, signed more players than ever before in team history, and went 6-10 in 2014 which could shake faith in Reese's skill at this; and not much in the resumes of these signings inspires optimism that this year's crop will help us more than last year's.
we have several starters who are clearly  
bc4life : 3/13/2015 3:51 pm : link
not good enough and we have not found replacements for any of them. Maybe it could not be helped because you don't want to over pay - still less than optimistic, at this point...
Giants 84  
joeinpa : 3/13/2015 3:55 pm : link
good post

However, I agree with another thread begun this day about is the money spent a big deal. The conclusion is not if it doesn't inhibit the Giants ability to make moves going forward.

I don't think it will.
great post Joe  
jjgmrg901 : 3/13/2015 4:20 pm : link
It's the tone of many of the posters that irritates me, I'm going to chalk it up to insecurity and immaturity,
Why did the Giants sign the free agents that they did?  
Archer : 3/13/2015 4:24 pm : link
Certain observations about the Giants free agents :
With the exception of Shane Vereen who was drafted in the second round, the other free agents were drafted after the 5th round; Dwayne Harris (6th), Johnathan Casillas (Undrafted), Marshall Newhouse (5th), and J. T. Thomas III (6th).

None of the free agents were full time starters. Vereen was the most accomplished player with (6) starts and his role as the third down back for Patriots, Harris was the primary returner for Dallas but was a backup wide receiver, Casillas started (3) games for Tampa and (3) games for New England last year, Newhouse started (5) games last year and (2) the year before, JT Thomas started (2) games in the last two years for Jacksonville.

All of the players entered the NFL between 2009 -2011, (1) in 2009, (1) in 2010 and (3) in 2011.

So why did the Giants have to expend their resources on creating depth?
One explanation could be a lack of depth due to ineffective drafting.

There is (1) player William Beatty left on the Giants from the 2009 draft, there is (1) player JPP left on the Giants from the 2010 draft, and there will be (1) player left on the Giants from the 2011 draft Prince.
This is unacceptable.

The Giants are signing free agents to create depth and fix the problems created as a result of poor drafting.
love the vereen signing  
djm : 3/13/2015 4:32 pm : link
hate that NY missed on McCourtey...

Refuse to get too excited about safety and OL needs at this point...it's way too early to panic and even if it was Sept 1--why not let the games play out before proclaiming that a young position isn't going to deliver. You just never know.

I'd like to get a safety and an OL before the draft and I suspect that the Giants do too...but I can't get excited. We just don't know enough.

I liked some of the moves made last year and most NYG fans were giddy that about a dozen new names were brought in. We were giddy in the 09 off-season too.

I said it before the off-season began that the key to the 2015 season would be the maturation of 2nd and 3rd year players and some of the FAs brought in last year--notably Jennings, Schwartz and of course DRC. Of course i'd like to see some of the holes filled but if the young core of talent on this team takes a step forward, this team will win a lot of games. I firmly believe that. And you can bet that the smarter organizations of the NFL believe that too...It's all about the drafted players.
think about the roster for a second  
djm : 3/13/2015 4:40 pm : link
the entire team is littered with youth and in many cases, somewhat untested but talented youth. The DL has Moore and Wynn and Bromley. Even Hank is still a young player that probably hasn't reached his ceiling yet. The LBs--Kennard...WTF is his ceiling? Is he a flash in the pan or is he a future game wrecking LB that can rush the passer and disrupt running plays in the backfield? The secondary...Prince looks great when he plays but we don't even know his ceiling yet...is he a pro bowl talent or is he just another decent DB that misses 4-8 games every year? DRC has all world ability...can he put it all together over a 16 game season? The SS and FS situation is so raw I won't even touch that...

Then you have the OL and guys like Pugh, Richburg and even the kid from Canada...what's their ceiling? The RBs...Williams...the WRs...Randle and even BEckham and Donnell..

This team has a lot of question marks but they are very interesting question marks. There's athletic ability on this team....but how good these guys are remains to be seen. I think Coughlin is a very good football coach--the guy knows how to mold a team and build football prospects into football players...so this should be fun. The last time this team was very young and somewhat unproven was 2005. We can only hope things turn out in similar fashion.

FA can be exciting and when used properly can help a team take the next step but it's not the end all be all...
Confusing arrogance with passion  
ghost718 : 3/13/2015 5:24 pm : link
"I'm smarter than Jerry Reese" is not part of the process when an opinion is formed.

All that is,is an attempt to bring people back over the line.They crossed it when they questioned Reese,and now we gotta bring them back.

But I maybe stating something that's already known.This post may have a nicer tone,but it has a similar message.
RE: joe,  
Great White Ghost : 3/13/2015 5:42 pm : link
In comment 12181469 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
many have no idea who they're railing against. All they know is there are no NAMES signed yet
you sang the same tune last year and we went 6-10. Your reactions are as knee jerk as anyone else's, just different.

Anyway you cut it, the positions of biggest need are still not addressed.it's not a good look, analysts say so, the majority of fans say so. JR may be an evil genius, but to date it doesn't look like it.He's blown too many drafts to be a Genius.
I have no idea  
geemanfan : 3/13/2015 6:33 pm : link
About the Line Backers and the Tackle but Vareen is a great signing and I used to cringe any time we kicked the ball to Harris . So I know they will both make an instant improvement to our offense and special teams.
ghost  
joeinpa : 3/13/2015 6:46 pm : link
I have criticized guys who run the teams I root for my entire life as a sports fan. Fans that criticize Reese are justified because the performance has been sub par recently.

I criticized Fewell his entire tenure with the Giants.

But there was never one time I felt I knew more football than him.

I get your perception of my post being just another version of "Don't criticize Reese"

But that is not where this was coming from. I was just wondering if those who are so critical of Reese, really believe that going forward they could make better decisions for this franchise or are they just criticizing past mistakes.
like everyone,I do not understand  
Burt in Alameda : 3/13/2015 7:04 pm : link
why, as of now, the Giants have not done anything about the OL and Safety positions. What is going on? Is it money that the free agents are demanding or that Reese does not believe any of the players on the market in the above positions are worth the price and good enough to sign, or does no one want to play for the Giants? We know nothing except that the above positions are still question marks. Finally, we all know we can not draft Cooper or White, if available, with OL and Safety unresolved.
We need cap room...  
hotrod48 : 3/14/2015 9:04 am : link
It is obvious that we do not have enough cap space to fill all needs. I can see no reason to keep JPP, on a D-line that is dysfunctional. JPP played sub-par last year against good teams. He was a stud against sub-par teams. This should not be an indication the we pay him 13mil. Against the Shehawks, JPP shit to bed. In that game, like most games, he was totally unable to seal the edge. WE DO NOT need him for that$. Take the 13mil. and sign 5 decent players who can help the team more than that mutt.
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