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Spags and Beason

Tony-in-Wichita : 3/19/2015 10:29 am
This relationship is key for the defense to even ponder being in the top 10.

Obviously health is the biggest concern here.

Otherwise, they are both well known commodities and have talent to succeed at this level.

Antonio Pierce mentioned how his relationship with Spags was paramount for their success throughout the playoffs. In addition to Stahan and others playing well.

So... If Beason stays healthy, and others players meet expectations, I see a good enough defense moving forward to win a championship.
Beason and Thomas both  
JonC : 3/19/2015 10:32 am : link
given Beason's recent health trends.

Defense still needs parts : a legit starter at DE opposite JPP, a WILL upgrade, slot CB, and more talent at S.

The fewer of the above that are procured, the greater the chance the defense will be too thin, and will regress to the mean, imo.
Jon i think they view Thomas  
nygiants16 : 3/19/2015 10:35 am : link
as the Will...Thats just my opinion...

As for Beason as long as he is healthy he can give what Pierce did in this defense...he is a smart Linebacker and you need that as your MLB...

Pierce in 2007 was not an athletic MLB but he was smart and always had the defense lined up correctly...
If Beason is healthy he is a better MLB than Pierce ever could have  
Curtis in VA : 3/19/2015 10:40 am : link
been. He's much faster and athletic than Pierce. I dont see him staying healthy though.
16  
JonC : 3/19/2015 10:40 am : link
I think JT will definitely get a long look at WILL, but I also think he winds up the best option to backup Beason at MIKE. McClain will figure in the mix as well, but at the end of the day he's basically adequate and the defense needs more SPEED on the field.
The big question is  
Zebra3 : 3/19/2015 10:42 am : link
Can Spags stop the Run Option?
I'd like see Thomas win the WILL gig  
JonC : 3/19/2015 10:45 am : link
and Kennard the SAM. There should looks for OLBs to move up as an Elephant (5th DL) and rush off the edge (the role Kiwanuka tried to transition into). It will be interesting to see it unfold, and Casillas/Thomas should upgrade specials/depth if nothing else. Not to mention the potential options at #9 in the draft.

DaMonster  
Tony-in-Wichita : 3/19/2015 10:48 am : link
...

Any chance he can become a legitimate starter opposite JPP? I understand the LE vs RE situation
RE: DaMonster  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/19/2015 10:50 am : link
In comment 12192248 Tony-in-Wichita said:
Quote:
...

Any chance he can become a legitimate starter opposite JPP? I understand the LE vs RE situation


This has to be the year they play him enough to find out.

Everybody wants them to shop for DEs, but I'm not sure we know what Moore is yet.
Moore's issues are apparently between his ears  
JonC : 3/19/2015 10:50 am : link
that's what's keeping off the field. He's got to clean up the mental mistakes (penalties), blowing assignments.

Personally, I strongly dislike what I saw from him during the brawl in St Louis. He acted a damned fool.
RE: Moore's issues are apparently between his ears  
Tony-in-Wichita : 3/19/2015 10:55 am : link
In comment 12192257 JonC said:
Quote:
that's what's keeping off the field. He's got to clean up the mental mistakes (penalties), blowing assignments.

Personally, I strongly dislike what I saw from him during the brawl in St Louis. He acted a damned fool.


I don't know about all that, but I see a young man with talent who makes plays on Special Teams. Hopefully a little maturity will expand his role and strengthen his position within the defense
RE: Beason and Thomas both  
Tony-in-Wichita : 3/19/2015 10:57 am : link
In comment 12192198 JonC said:
Quote:
given Beason's recent health trends.

Defense still needs parts : a legit starter at DE opposite JPP, a WILL upgrade, slot CB, and more talent at S.

The fewer of the above that are procured, the greater the chance the defense will be too thin, and will regress to the mean, imo.


I have to believe another miracle draft, as opposed to recent stinkers, can cover these holes. A long with a couple savvy veteran signings come training camp
The coaches confirmed it  
JonC : 3/19/2015 10:58 am : link
That's what they're talking about when they mention a pattern of mental mistakes, not demonstrating a grasp on his assignments during practice, etc.

We all hope for the same, and we see the talent on Specials as well. It's up to him to make more happen, the physical talent is there.

RE: If Beason is healthy he is a better MLB than Pierce ever could have  
Tony-in-Wichita : 3/19/2015 10:59 am : link
In comment 12192218 Curtis in VA said:
Quote:
been. He's much faster and athletic than Pierce. I dont see him staying healthy though.


Availability is the best kind of ability. IF.. IF.. If he stays healthy... Beason will be fun to watch.
They're signing the UFA upgrades they can  
JonC : 3/19/2015 11:00 am : link
I think the roster is a year away from contender talk. Find a way to win 10 games and make the 2015 playoffs would be a significant success.
RE: The big question is  
section125 : 3/19/2015 11:00 am : link
In comment 12192234 Zebra3 said:
Quote:
Can Spags stop the Run Option?


The run option is defensed with disciplined football. Each man has to play his assignment. It is stopped in college and it can be stopped in the pros. Once the DE plants the QB a few times, the will to run goes away. DEs and OLBs in the NFL are bigger, faster and stronger than college players.
The more the pros see it, the less effective it becomes.
Beason  
RetroJint : 3/19/2015 11:01 am : link
Played well for Fewell. He played well in Carolina. Why would his relationship with Spagnuolo be any different? The problem is he can't stay on the field. Hold your breath waiting for "news" from those OTAs. He's liable to step on a pea or something.

To Jon's comment on Moore, I add only this: he had a hard time keeping his weight at 245 last season, according to Fewell & Coughlin. Forget the program weight. It's a lark.
A hard time how?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/19/2015 11:04 am : link
He kept losing weight? He doesn't seem heavy.
He kept losing weight  
JonC : 3/19/2015 11:13 am : link
IIRC, they wanted him working towards 260-265, but as the season wears on he loses weight. Not uncommon for a player, but it tends to make it more difficult for a lighter DE to hold up versus the run for 16 games.

RE: Beason and Thomas both  
shabu : 3/19/2015 11:26 am : link
In comment 12192198 JonC said:
Quote:
given Beason's recent health trends.

Defense still needs parts : a legit starter at DE opposite JPP, a WILL upgrade, slot CB, and more talent at S.

The fewer of the above that are procured, the greater the chance the defense will be too thin, and will regress to the mean, imo.


Pierce was incredible in the run that year and it was not all his head. The dood was all over the field.
JT Thomas  
area junc : 3/19/2015 11:31 am : link
was told he would start at WLB. Mcclain at backup MLB
RE: JT Thomas  
Coach Mason : 3/19/2015 11:39 am : link
In comment 12192377 area junc said:
Quote:
was told he would start at WLB. Mcclain at backup MLB


Does MacClain's contract justify back-up minutes? Although w/Beason's injury propensity he may not be back-up for long.
Kennard needs to win the SAM gig  
JonC : 3/19/2015 11:40 am : link
Given Beason's recent health trend, they might be forced to retain McClain despite the cap hit. They figure to need him.
I've never liked anything I've seen from Moore  
Go Terps : 3/19/2015 11:46 am : link
Celebrating a sack (and not seeing the fumble) while down huge against Indy... After all the talk to that point about him having to wise up, they should have cut that moron to make a point. Someone that stupid it's never going to be a true help.
RE: I've never liked anything I've seen from Moore  
dorgan : 3/19/2015 11:51 am : link
In comment 12192422 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Celebrating a sack (and not seeing the fumble) while down huge against Indy... After all the talk to that point about him having to wise up, they should have cut that moron to make a point. Someone that stupid it's never going to be a true help.


I can see your point, but he's talented enough to warrant a chance to grow up. I'm not sure I'd count on it, but I would give him an ultimatum this year with a list of clear expectations I wanted him to achieve. If he doesn't develop, you move on. But, he's young enough and talented enough to give him this year.

If just half of the IR starters  
mrvax : 3/19/2015 11:54 am : link
were healthy, the Giants could have won another 3 games last year, IMO.
Top 10?  
Matt M. : 3/19/2015 11:57 am : link
At this point I'll settle for just not being in the bottom 10.
RE: I've never liked anything I've seen from Moore  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/19/2015 12:05 pm : link
In comment 12192422 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Celebrating a sack (and not seeing the fumble) while down huge against Indy... After all the talk to that point about him having to wise up, they should have cut that moron to make a point. Someone that stupid it's never going to be a true help.


Didn't Kalil Mack nearly lose a game for the raiders because he was celebrating while the other team was lining up to quickly snap?

Defensive ROY.

Football players aren't exactly the cleverest bunch.
If Beason can stay healthy,  
Doomster : 3/19/2015 1:06 pm : link
this helps the run defense tremendously......however, he is nothing special in pass coverage(under Fewell).....Maybe in Spag's scheme, he will be different, we just don't know....
Beason should not play preseason  
averagejoe : 3/19/2015 1:18 pm : link
or participate in contact drills. Keep him on the bike and in sweats until opening day. Maybe he will last 4 games before the next injury. It's the only way.
RE: I've never liked anything I've seen from Moore  
Coach Mason : 3/19/2015 1:45 pm : link
In comment 12192422 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Celebrating a sack (and not seeing the fumble) while down huge against Indy... After all the talk to that point about him having to wise up, they should have cut that moron to make a point. Someone that stupid it's never going to be a true help.


Moore has some growing up to do but he's my 'Corey Webster' pick for a big emergence under Steve.

We need some optimism around here so I'll throw it out there and think he begins to become a pass-rushing force at DE and at least passable vs. the run in the new system.

Didn't Osi used to do it everytime he had a sack?  
nygiants16 : 3/19/2015 1:48 pm : link
he would get a strip sack and instead of jumping in for the ball he would put his arms out and run around the field...

Beason was always trying to come  
Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 3/19/2015 3:23 pm : link
back from an injury, which is why he had the foot injury last season due to over training( and wearing tight spikes).

His last injury should not be one that lingers unless he over trains again but from his comments it seems he understands now...
looks like, if they draft a defensive end or two  
idiotsavant : 3/19/2015 3:30 pm : link
which they should,

you make Moore split time with Kennard as SAM / 'elephant'.

so you have Mcclain as Mike backed up by Beason and then Herzlich 3rd Mike

Kennard and Moore as SAM and Elephant (right side here? ) backed up by Herzlich 3rd Sam

and whichever of the little, fast ones survives the cuts on the left / tight end side (will here?)....taken off the field by extra safeties as often as possible?

so, a 5 - 1 - 5 look could, in one way, include a Mike (the '1')...an elephant (the '5th' DL) and a 3rd safety (the '5th' db)
RE: The big question is  
Gman11 : 3/19/2015 6:58 pm : link
In comment 12192234 Zebra3 said:
Quote:
Can Spags stop the Run Option?


Damn you. Reading that brought back flashbacks of Russell Wilson. OMG, what a nightmare.
There's no wizardry to stopping option football.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/19/2015 7:13 pm : link
It's discipline and playing your assignments.
My gut feeling  
djm : 3/19/2015 8:58 pm : link
Is the gisnts first round pick this april will be cutting into moore's playing time as the season progresses. I think we're drafting pass rusher
RE: If Beason is healthy he is a better MLB than Pierce ever could have  
GeofromNJ : 3/19/2015 10:13 pm : link
In comment 12192218 Curtis in VA said:
Quote:
been. He's much faster and athletic than Pierce. I dont see him staying healthy though.

I agree - on both points. The Giants season turned around in 2013 when Beason was signed. And it turned around again in 2014 when he went down. I would love to see him come back to 2013 form this year, but I'm not optimistic.
Wilson?  
Doomster : 3/20/2015 9:01 am : link
Damn you. Reading that brought back flashbacks of Russell Wilson. OMG, what a nightmare.


How about Bortles?...two huge runs that led to the game winning fg in the final drive....


The Giants season turned around in 2013 when Beason was signed. And it turned around again in 2014 when he went down.


You give Beason too much credit....in 2013, it was the emergence of Hill and playing a string of second class quarterbacks that turned that season around...

In 2014, it was an offense that showed nothing in preseason, and continued to struggle at the beginning of the season....
I have no idea what Spagnuolo's relationship with Beason will be.  
Big Blue Blogger : 3/20/2015 9:07 am : link
We do know that the Giants were ready to part ways with Beason if he didn't take a pay cut. So it's not as though Spagnuolo took the job for the privilege of working with Jon Beason.
improved group  
area junc : 3/20/2015 9:29 am : link
The exciting news is the linebackers - as a group - look much improved.

First is Beason - say what you will but by moving fwd as we are it indicates prognosis:positive on Beason returning to the field. Whether him and Rolle were really buddies or not, it's a good thing if Jon Beason is "the voice" of your defense.

Second is the addition of 2 REAL linebackers who impressed the Giants enough to earn decent contracts. (J.T. Thomas and Casillas.) Thomas will start, Castillas a package player. 2 fast, physical linebackers who hit and tackle. Not Paysinger and Jacquian Williams masquerading.

3rd is a 2nd-year Devon Kennard at SLB, particularly when he's lined up at the LOS in a 50 front. Kennard showed real ability as a blitzer and Spags will send him.

McClain at 6th man. McClain can call a Defense and pressure the A Gap and is a value player for Spags.

--

Also the + by -: the coach-killer: no more J-Will in and out of the line-up, causing ineffectiveness and inconsistency of the D. He was picked on by other teams in both run and pass. getting j.williams out of our plans (and replacing him with a real linebacker in J.T. Thomas) is a fair upgrade to the team
RE: improved group  
Coach Mason : 3/20/2015 9:59 am : link
In comment 12194168 area junc said:
Quote:
The exciting news is the linebackers - as a group - look much improved.

First is Beason - say what you will but by moving fwd as we are it indicates prognosis:positive on Beason returning to the field. Whether him and Rolle were really buddies or not, it's a good thing if Jon Beason is "the voice" of your defense.

Second is the addition of 2 REAL linebackers who impressed the Giants enough to earn decent contracts. (J.T. Thomas and Casillas.) Thomas will start, Castillas a package player. 2 fast, physical linebackers who hit and tackle. Not Paysinger and Jacquian Williams masquerading.

3rd is a 2nd-year Devon Kennard at SLB, particularly when he's lined up at the LOS in a 50 front. Kennard showed real ability as a blitzer and Spags will send him.

McClain at 6th man. McClain can call a Defense and pressure the A Gap and is a value player for Spags.

--

Also the + by -: the coach-killer: no more J-Will in and out of the line-up, causing ineffectiveness and inconsistency of the D. He was picked on by other teams in both run and pass. getting j.williams out of our plans (and replacing him with a real linebacker in J.T. Thomas) is a fair upgrade to the team


Really want to root for Beason but he is about as injury prone as they come and getting older which usually doesn't help. I really hope he.can stay healthy for the whole season. I think he brings that Peirce leader ship from MLB we haven't had in a long time.
it's baffling  
Les in TO : 3/20/2015 10:49 am : link
that a defensive end like Moore could struggle with assignments. it's not like he has to be the quarterback of the defense. there are a finite number of alignments and "assignments" for a lineman to understand and the type of offense being faced usually dictates that (an option type offense like seattle vs a west coast offense vs a traditional pocket passing offense).
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