For me in years. He has size, power, hand punch, good feet and he could never put it all together. He should have been able to be the heir apparent to McKenzie with his size and power and he just flopped.
too late, what a piece of garbage, I remember watching his very first play his rookie season, preseason, and knew instantly this guy didn't have it ... nice job whoever scouted him out
I take that back, he was not a piece of garbage, he just wasn't a football player ... who I take up issue with is whoever scouted and said this is our man ...
too late, what a piece of garbage, I remember watching his very first play his rookie season, preseason, and knew instantly this guy didn't have it ... nice job whoever scouted him out
Go look at his Indiana tapes, he had everything you want in an OT. He just flopped, this is more on coaching than scouting
yes, the scouts absolutely failed ... they should know what it takes when they see an athlete and make a pretty darned good case and say this guy has what it will take at the next level ... whoever scouted him must of been very hungover, maybe did not want to be on the trip, could be a family friend of the Brewers, maybe $$ played a roll ... there is no way a pro nfl scout would declare this guy a football player ... he did master the art of collecting a nice paycheck for 4+ years with no services rendered ... for that I am impressed
You said a whole lot of nothing. The question is, did the scouts fail? I don't think so at all, you seem to just want to say something to talk.
in my stomach every time over the past 4 years they tried to insert this guy into the lineup, and would just play himself right out of it ... talk about forcing an issue ... again, who was responsible for scouting and saying we need him ...
RE: RE: Now, are there a dozen posters on a Jets forum bitching
credibility into question in hindsight drafting Brewer because he rarely saw the field and was a useless roster spot/wasted draft pick because HE couldn't handle the fundamentals of being an NFL product. Plain and simple.
Can we end the whole teddy bear thing being a symbol of his softness? ... at least in the sense that he was carrying the bear because he loves how snuggly it is. It's something the Giants OL members pass around to one another to possess and carry around.
The Giants have had the same offensive line coach for 11 years now but it's his fault Brewer got out muscled and couldn't block anyone?
Yes and how many OL has Flaherty developed in those 11 years? He inherited Diehl, Seubert, O'Hara and McKenzie was already an established RT when he signed with the Giants.
yes, the scouts absolutely failed ... they should know what it takes when they see an athlete and make a pretty darned good case and say this guy has what it will take at the next level ... whoever scouted him must of been very hungover, maybe did not want to be on the trip, could be a family friend of the Brewers, maybe $$ played a roll ... there is no way a pro nfl scout would declare this guy a football player ... he did master the art of collecting a nice paycheck for 4+ years with no services rendered ... for that I am impressed
You said a whole lot of nothing. The question is, did the scouts fail? I don't think so at all, you seem to just want to say something to talk.
Floyd, my point is, that at Indiana he looked very good, that talent did not show up in New York. Plenty of blame to go around, most of it probably on Brewer but athletically and on game days in college, he was a very very good player with a lot of tools scouts drool over. He just flopped.
was another one of Jerry's "measureables" guys. Whiffing on Brewer isn't the problem. It's whiffing on Brewer, Petrus, Mosley, McCants, Robinson, Austin, Hosley, and a lot of other picks. I get that many picks, especially those on day three, don't work out. But top teams can at least find a few gems in the later rounds. Reese's inability to do so has hollowed out the depth of the roster at many positions.
The NFL game just seemed to fast for Brewer. He could be dominate if he latched onto someone, but often seemed a half second slow at the snap, like he was still processing what he needed to do. He also had problems with speed rushers, and got beat a lot with quick, inside, moves.
But he was a good teammate who never caused any problems. And if he wouldn't be the first player who found success with his second team. Wish him all the best.
was another one of Jerry's "measureables" guys. Whiffing on Brewer isn't the problem. It's whiffing on Brewer, Petrus, Mosley, McCants, Robinson, Austin, Hosley, and a lot of other picks. I get that many picks, especially those on day three, don't work out. But top teams can at least find a few gems in the later rounds. Reese's inability to do so has hollowed out the depth of the roster at many positions.
How in the world can you call Petrus, Mosley, and McCants "measurable guys"? If you check their draft profiles you will see that one guy could bench press while another one had a nice three cone drill time for a lineman. So where are the "measurables"?
One of the things I hate on here is the way certain phrases are tossed around and players are lumped into a group. Everyone who flunked coming out of college was either a reach, a measurable guy, or a tweener. But no one puts a definition on each term, just lumps players into them.
Hell, guys who came from big programs with a ton of college production (Tyler Sash) get called measurable guys when people gripe about the draft.
For me in years. He has size, power, hand punch, good feet and he could never put it all together. He should have been able to be the heir apparent to McKenzie with his size and power and he just flopped.
I'm thinking that it seems like another requirement for Oline seems to be "nasty". A guy who is more than happy to try to challenge a defender and one-up him on every play. I think guys like Brewer are thinking of "doing a good job" on each play and it makes a big difference.
One of the top Oline guy has a rap for not being very aggressive/nasty. That guy is Peat and I hope we don't pick him.
was another one of Jerry's "measureables" guys. Whiffing on Brewer isn't the problem. It's whiffing on Brewer, Petrus, Mosley, McCants, Robinson, Austin, Hosley, and a lot of other picks. I get that many picks, especially those on day three, don't work out. But top teams can at least find a few gems in the later rounds. Reese's inability to do so has hollowed out the depth of the roster at many positions.
How in the world can you call Petrus, Mosley, and McCants "measurable guys"? If you check their draft profiles you will see that one guy could bench press while another one had a nice three cone drill time for a lineman. So where are the "measurables"?
One of the things I hate on here is the way certain phrases are tossed around and players are lumped into a group. Everyone who flunked coming out of college was either a reach, a measurable guy, or a tweener. But no one puts a definition on each term, just lumps players into them.
Hell, guys who came from big programs with a ton of college production (Tyler Sash) get called measurable guys when people gripe about the draft.
SMH
Agree and disagree. Agree that I could have been clearer. Mosley and Hosley probably weren't "measureables" guys. Mosley was a late "position switcher," from TE to OL, ironically like Petrus. Brewer also actually came to football rather late, having been a basketball player for many years IIRC. Hosley had character concerns. He got busted for pot at the combine. Reese still used a third round pick on him.
The rest were "measureables" guys:
Petrus: Tied the bench press record at the combine.
Austin: Seen as a fast, penetrating, DT: Austin profile. The Giants used a second round pick on him, even though he was suspended for the entire 2010 season.
Robinson: Called the "JPP of TEs." By the Giants themselves. Came from a five wide offense that rarely used the TE.
McCants: Condor sized wingspan. 6'5" with over 35" arms.
Brewer: See McCants.
Barden is another "measureables" guy.
Blow a lot of day three picks? Well, so do most teams. But really good teams find some gems. Reese really hasn't. The reasons vary. Some were "measureables" guys, and some were drafted despite known character problems. My point is that Reese gambled on a lot of these types of players and got little, if anything, in return. He also drafted several players (Sintim and Beckum) who didn't even fit our system. So it's no wonder the roster is a mess.
Maybe it's no coincidence that his last two drafts have been better, as he is now apparently more interested in "team captains." That success is more than enough to fend off the cries that he should be fired, but it is not wrong to note his past failures.
Most people don't consider guys who are big but not athletic a "measurable" draftee. Ramses Barden ran a 4.68 40 yard dash so I don't think he qualifies as a "measurable" type. Petrus' benchpress was the only thing that stood out about him at the combine so I think calling him a "measurable" guy is another stretch.
However, you did name a few guys who most will agree stood out as athletic. But lets be clear about one of your examples. Marvin Austin didn't get picked just because he was over 300 pounds and running a sub 5 second 40. He got picked because many felt he would have been a first round draft pick if he had kept his head on straight. Some disagreed about that but Reese took a chance and it didn't work out.
End of the day, you backed up your assertion about "measurable" picks with less than a dozen names over the last five drafts. The Giants have had 36 draft picks in that span.
Also can you explain why only the guys who flunked are called "measurable" picks? I mean Markus Kuhn has similar if not better combine results than Marvin Austin. So why isn't he on the "measurable" list?
Most people don't consider guys who are big but not athletic a "measurable" draftee. Ramses Barden ran a 4.68 40 yard dash so I don't think he qualifies as a "measurable" type. Petrus' benchpress was the only thing that stood out about him at the combine so I think calling him a "measurable" guy is another stretch.
However, you did name a few guys who most will agree stood out as athletic. But lets be clear about one of your examples. Marvin Austin didn't get picked just because he was over 300 pounds and running a sub 5 second 40. He got picked because many felt he would have been a first round draft pick if he had kept his head on straight. Some disagreed about that but Reese took a chance and it didn't work out.
End of the day, you backed up your assertion about "measurable" picks with less than a dozen names over the last five drafts. The Giants have had 36 draft picks in that span.
Also can you explain why only the guys who flunked are called "measurable" picks? I mean Markus Kuhn has similar if not better combine results than Marvin Austin. So why isn't he on the "measurable" list?
I guess it's a matter of opinion. I consider Barden and Petrus "measureables" guys. Barden was 6'6". He has drafted in the hopes that he could replace Burress. My recollection is that some scouts said he had trouble getting off the LOS, which was certainly true in the NFL.
As far as Petrus is concerned, somebody pointed out that he was an all SEC lineman. But there must have been a reason why he was still nonetheless available in the fifth round. Despite being an all SEC lineman, nobody wanted him for nearly five rounds. He had little lateral quickness, and his brute strength just didn't translate well to the NFL. Other teams probably saw that problem. He'd only been on the OL for two years IIRC. But I wonder if Reese nonetheless took a chance because of the bench press.
Austin produced. But in 2009. Not in 2010, when he was suspended. If you want to say that his production in 2009 prevents him from being labelled a "measureables" guy, I think that's defensible. But I don't think it's indefensible to call him a "measureables" guy after he had to sit out the entire 2010 season. He simply wowed teams with post season workouts IIRC. In any event, regardless of whether he was or wasn't a "measurables" guy, his character and work ethic concerns should have been enough to prevent the Giants from using a second round pick on him. Although to be fair, there were rumors that the Bears were prepared to take him, and that they took Paea as a consolation prize. Austin of course ended up having back problems, which undoubtedly affected his performance. I haven't followed him in Denver, but he seems to be contributing.
Kuhn is a "measureables" guy. But I didn't list him because he was a seventh round pick. What else is there at that point in the draft? What's scary is that Ross said that Kuhn was "in the discussion" with Robinson in the fourth round.
I never said that an over emphasis on drafting "measurables" guys is the only reason the roster has so many holes. It's one reason. Other reasons are drafting players with character concerns, players who don't fit our system, and just missing on too many picks.
I have also said that I would not fire Reese. His last two drafts have been productive, possibly to some extent because he didn't draft guys with major character concerns. It will be interesting to see if that continues this year.
As far as "measureables" guys are concerned, watch out for Armstead and Clemmings. I don't think the Giants will draft either one, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did.
I see so many reason listed the players, the scheme, the fight in the players and last but not least the teams loosing history. I could give you a Spartan but if he lives among monks for years what will he become in the end? The Giants have become a soft team with big mouths and no real desire to win the hard fights. I find it very hard to believe and understand how so many of our players have not developed or been released because they suck. We were supposed to be a tough physical and strong minded team but we are what we've shown we are a lousy 4-6 wins team with a bunch of excuses. The one constant is the lack of quality coaching being displayed from season to season by the teams playing against these soft Giants.
Feet, lateral quickness, balance, size...sigh - ( New Window )
Go look at his Indiana tapes, he had everything you want in an OT. He just flopped, this is more on coaching than scouting
You said a whole lot of nothing. The question is, did the scouts fail? I don't think so at all, you seem to just want to say something to talk.
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watch the GIANTS tapes. It was on him.
yes, the scouts absolutely failed ... they should know what it takes when they see an athlete and make a pretty darned good case and say this guy has what it will take at the next level ... whoever scouted him must of been very hungover, maybe did not want to be on the trip, could be a family friend of the Brewers, maybe $$ played a roll ... there is no way a pro nfl scout would declare this guy a football player ... he did master the art of collecting a nice paycheck for 4+ years with no services rendered ... for that I am impressed
You said a whole lot of nothing. The question is, did the scouts fail? I don't think so at all, you seem to just want to say something to talk.
You're pleased with Bennett and Thurmond deals? You think Brewer is as good a player as those two?
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about the 1 year deal and how Brewer could bolt for more money after the season, or is that just a BBI phenomenon?
Brewer wont make it out of Jets summer camp ...
You're pleased with Bennett and Thurmond deals? You think Brewer is as good a player as those two?
Com'on, the kid couldn't break into the Giants OL.
Yes and how many OL has Flaherty developed in those 11 years? He inherited Diehl, Seubert, O'Hara and McKenzie was already an established RT when he signed with the Giants.
DouChebag.
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In comment 12192538 Speak said:
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watch the GIANTS tapes. It was on him.
yes, the scouts absolutely failed ... they should know what it takes when they see an athlete and make a pretty darned good case and say this guy has what it will take at the next level ... whoever scouted him must of been very hungover, maybe did not want to be on the trip, could be a family friend of the Brewers, maybe $$ played a roll ... there is no way a pro nfl scout would declare this guy a football player ... he did master the art of collecting a nice paycheck for 4+ years with no services rendered ... for that I am impressed
You said a whole lot of nothing. The question is, did the scouts fail? I don't think so at all, you seem to just want to say something to talk.
Floyd, my point is, that at Indiana he looked very good, that talent did not show up in New York. Plenty of blame to go around, most of it probably on Brewer but athletically and on game days in college, he was a very very good player with a lot of tools scouts drool over. He just flopped.
The NFL game just seemed to fast for Brewer. He could be dominate if he latched onto someone, but often seemed a half second slow at the snap, like he was still processing what he needed to do. He also had problems with speed rushers, and got beat a lot with quick, inside, moves.
But he was a good teammate who never caused any problems. And if he wouldn't be the first player who found success with his second team. Wish him all the best.
How in the world can you call Petrus, Mosley, and McCants "measurable guys"? If you check their draft profiles you will see that one guy could bench press while another one had a nice three cone drill time for a lineman. So where are the "measurables"?
One of the things I hate on here is the way certain phrases are tossed around and players are lumped into a group. Everyone who flunked coming out of college was either a reach, a measurable guy, or a tweener. But no one puts a definition on each term, just lumps players into them.
Hell, guys who came from big programs with a ton of college production (Tyler Sash) get called measurable guys when people gripe about the draft.
SMH
I'm thinking that it seems like another requirement for Oline seems to be "nasty". A guy who is more than happy to try to challenge a defender and one-up him on every play. I think guys like Brewer are thinking of "doing a good job" on each play and it makes a big difference.
One of the top Oline guy has a rap for not being very aggressive/nasty. That guy is Peat and I hope we don't pick him.
Quote:
was another one of Jerry's "measureables" guys. Whiffing on Brewer isn't the problem. It's whiffing on Brewer, Petrus, Mosley, McCants, Robinson, Austin, Hosley, and a lot of other picks. I get that many picks, especially those on day three, don't work out. But top teams can at least find a few gems in the later rounds. Reese's inability to do so has hollowed out the depth of the roster at many positions.
How in the world can you call Petrus, Mosley, and McCants "measurable guys"? If you check their draft profiles you will see that one guy could bench press while another one had a nice three cone drill time for a lineman. So where are the "measurables"?
One of the things I hate on here is the way certain phrases are tossed around and players are lumped into a group. Everyone who flunked coming out of college was either a reach, a measurable guy, or a tweener. But no one puts a definition on each term, just lumps players into them.
Hell, guys who came from big programs with a ton of college production (Tyler Sash) get called measurable guys when people gripe about the draft.
SMH
Agree and disagree. Agree that I could have been clearer. Mosley and Hosley probably weren't "measureables" guys. Mosley was a late "position switcher," from TE to OL, ironically like Petrus. Brewer also actually came to football rather late, having been a basketball player for many years IIRC. Hosley had character concerns. He got busted for pot at the combine. Reese still used a third round pick on him.
The rest were "measureables" guys:
Petrus: Tied the bench press record at the combine.
Austin: Seen as a fast, penetrating, DT: Austin profile. The Giants used a second round pick on him, even though he was suspended for the entire 2010 season.
Robinson: Called the "JPP of TEs." By the Giants themselves. Came from a five wide offense that rarely used the TE.
McCants: Condor sized wingspan. 6'5" with over 35" arms.
Brewer: See McCants.
Barden is another "measureables" guy.
Blow a lot of day three picks? Well, so do most teams. But really good teams find some gems. Reese really hasn't. The reasons vary. Some were "measureables" guys, and some were drafted despite known character problems. My point is that Reese gambled on a lot of these types of players and got little, if anything, in return. He also drafted several players (Sintim and Beckum) who didn't even fit our system. So it's no wonder the roster is a mess.
Maybe it's no coincidence that his last two drafts have been better, as he is now apparently more interested in "team captains." That success is more than enough to fend off the cries that he should be fired, but it is not wrong to note his past failures.
and 0o0o 8 games in 3-4 years. What a world beater.
LOL HAHA @ people defending James Brewer
Jay on the Island, yep, that simple. Those guys were good and Brewer sucked.
However, you did name a few guys who most will agree stood out as athletic. But lets be clear about one of your examples. Marvin Austin didn't get picked just because he was over 300 pounds and running a sub 5 second 40. He got picked because many felt he would have been a first round draft pick if he had kept his head on straight. Some disagreed about that but Reese took a chance and it didn't work out.
End of the day, you backed up your assertion about "measurable" picks with less than a dozen names over the last five drafts. The Giants have had 36 draft picks in that span.
Also can you explain why only the guys who flunked are called "measurable" picks? I mean Markus Kuhn has similar if not better combine results than Marvin Austin. So why isn't he on the "measurable" list?
Take that
However, you did name a few guys who most will agree stood out as athletic. But lets be clear about one of your examples. Marvin Austin didn't get picked just because he was over 300 pounds and running a sub 5 second 40. He got picked because many felt he would have been a first round draft pick if he had kept his head on straight. Some disagreed about that but Reese took a chance and it didn't work out.
End of the day, you backed up your assertion about "measurable" picks with less than a dozen names over the last five drafts. The Giants have had 36 draft picks in that span.
Also can you explain why only the guys who flunked are called "measurable" picks? I mean Markus Kuhn has similar if not better combine results than Marvin Austin. So why isn't he on the "measurable" list?
I guess it's a matter of opinion. I consider Barden and Petrus "measureables" guys. Barden was 6'6". He has drafted in the hopes that he could replace Burress. My recollection is that some scouts said he had trouble getting off the LOS, which was certainly true in the NFL.
As far as Petrus is concerned, somebody pointed out that he was an all SEC lineman. But there must have been a reason why he was still nonetheless available in the fifth round. Despite being an all SEC lineman, nobody wanted him for nearly five rounds. He had little lateral quickness, and his brute strength just didn't translate well to the NFL. Other teams probably saw that problem. He'd only been on the OL for two years IIRC. But I wonder if Reese nonetheless took a chance because of the bench press.
Austin produced. But in 2009. Not in 2010, when he was suspended. If you want to say that his production in 2009 prevents him from being labelled a "measureables" guy, I think that's defensible. But I don't think it's indefensible to call him a "measureables" guy after he had to sit out the entire 2010 season. He simply wowed teams with post season workouts IIRC. In any event, regardless of whether he was or wasn't a "measurables" guy, his character and work ethic concerns should have been enough to prevent the Giants from using a second round pick on him. Although to be fair, there were rumors that the Bears were prepared to take him, and that they took Paea as a consolation prize. Austin of course ended up having back problems, which undoubtedly affected his performance. I haven't followed him in Denver, but he seems to be contributing.
Kuhn is a "measureables" guy. But I didn't list him because he was a seventh round pick. What else is there at that point in the draft? What's scary is that Ross said that Kuhn was "in the discussion" with Robinson in the fourth round.
I never said that an over emphasis on drafting "measurables" guys is the only reason the roster has so many holes. It's one reason. Other reasons are drafting players with character concerns, players who don't fit our system, and just missing on too many picks.
I have also said that I would not fire Reese. His last two drafts have been productive, possibly to some extent because he didn't draft guys with major character concerns. It will be interesting to see if that continues this year.
As far as "measureables" guys are concerned, watch out for Armstead and Clemmings. I don't think the Giants will draft either one, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did.
Good discussion.
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and nets us a Comp Pick! Yay!
The only comp pick we'll get is a coupon for Berger King
Berger King? Is it kosher?